Unthing

I wouldn't mind being a hami tank. I have Dull Pain 3xHeal, 3x Recharge so speed boosts would help that being perma. Taunt is 4 slotted ( 2x taunt 2x recharge ). I have Health 3 slotted. I run Hasten as much as poss. Apart from that I have no other useful anto Hami powers ( unless Combat Jumping and Weave work against Hami which I doubt ).

I'm only level 46 though.

I suspect that Hami raids are boring. But I don't care.

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Maybe you all need to re-learn to play your toon because everyone that says"I reired my tank because of I5" makes me laugh..

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When people say that it makes me sad. I have relearnt to play my tank after I5 hit ( due to stubbornness ) and he is probably my favourite toon ( still ). However I can see why people who ( like me ) have many alts would give up on the tank first.
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Go and have some good time and stop complaining please!

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Good plan.

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In Sherk Silver's Hero Builder resistances to Smash/Lethal, with 3 slots filled with +2 SOs are as follow:
Temp Invuln: 47,07%
Unyielding: 7,85%
Res Physical Dmg: 11,77%
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66,69% Res to S/L

Tough is 23,54%
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90,23%

Not much more than 90% but at least at the cap..

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The difference is that Sherk's Hero Planner uses 30% as the resistance for temp inv and DrRock uses 27.5%. This means it provides about 5% less S/L with 3 slots.

After a quick look at the US forums most people are using 30%. I don't know which is the right number.

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Can you tell me how to make Dr Rock thingy work pls?!


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Download and install it ( from the Player Guide / Sustainable Damage Comparison thread ).

Open the app.
Go to window/Results to open the results window, this provides sustainable Damage values for all of the defensive powersets.
On the Archetype/Powerset select box ( currently set to Blaster ) select tanker - invulnerability.
When you modify the slotting for powers the numbers for Tanker - Invulnerability in the results windows will change. You can activate/deactivate powers by clicking them.
To find out what a power does you can open the Windows/Power.
To find out total defence/Resistance for a certain AT and powerset you can click the + in the Results windows next to Tanker-Invulnerability and then the + next to Powers.

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Uhmmm is it only me that thinks that goin from 67% resist to S/L (Temp Invuln, RPD, Unyielding 3 slotted with +2 SOs) to 90% can make the difference?

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You can only get to 85% I think with tough ( assuming 3 slotted powers ). However that makes a huge difference when fighting S/L enemies.

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Tried this out and stil can tank bloody well(when it's not a portal behind Infernal...)and i think it helps a lot, almost any enemy makes Smash or Lethal dmg, so I advise that you take Tough, with 3 slots it will give you almost 24% more resist to S/L dmg, weave with ED is not worth pickin tho.

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I believe Weave is well worth picking as it provides about the same damage mitigation as Resist Elements and Resist Energies combined ( according to DrRocks CoH Damage Comparision program ).

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Hello all,

I've decided to try and make me a good tanker. Invuln/Ice tanker. So far he is a powerful level 3

Anyways, I have a few questions.
- How important is stamina? Invuln toggles will be slotted for end reduction.

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I think stamina is pretty damn important. However you might be able to get away without it if you can afford to slot both your attacks and possibly the expensive toggles ( unyielding and temp invulnerability ) with end reducers. The other thing to realise is that you aren't just getting the fitness pool for stamina. You are also getting it for Health. A three slotted health really helps your survivability on those occasion when you don't have a healer of some kind looking after you. Especially as you can have really good hitpoints from Dull Pain.

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- Fighting pool: yes - no, if yes do I get the final power of the set as well?

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I took the fighting set as a replacement for the Passive powers ( Resist Physical Damage, Resist Elements and Resist Energies ). I imagine this might be painful in a number of ways if you were starting from scratch as the fighting pool has a fairly hefty endurance cost, the toggles are the same as Unyielding and Temp invulnerability. I run 2 end reds in each toggle and one in a few of my attacks.

This choice is whether I want 7% extra defence and 11% extra S/L resistance ( to reach resistance of 75% SL 16% others ) or 11% extra resistance against other ( 64% SL 27% others ) with the passives. The fighting pool choice costs more slots though.

The 27% resistance that you can get really seems very little improvement over

The advantage of that extra defence is that I have 20% defence against a single opponent and it stacks to floor opponents accuracy quicker, an important part of being an Inv tanker.

I would suggest that if you are thinking of the fighting pool do it as a respec.

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- Any invuln powers not worth taking?

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IMO the essential powers of the set are:-
Temp Invulnerability ( base resistance.. )
Invincibility ( good scalable defence )
Unyielding ( mez protection, meagre resistance and defence penalty )
Dull Pain ( 60% extra HP for most of the time and a strong heal are not to be sniffed at ).

The Good powers are:-
Tough Hide ( removes def penalty and more )
Resist Physical Damage ( stacks with temp inv )
(Unstoppable)

The not so good powers are:-
Resist Energies ( meagre resistance to uncommon damage types )
Resist Elements ( meagre resistance to uncommon damage types )

I don't like Unstoppable, but I guess I need to learn to use it. Tough Hide is important as it offsets the defence penalty of Unyielding and when enhanced gives the second best defence per slot of anything you have ( the best is invincibility ) .

The only power I am not planning to take is Resist Physical Damage ( because of Tough ). I'm not sure I recommend doing it that way from scratch.

Good work it seems like a nice build.

I went a different route for my Inv/Fire build, taking the fighting pool, however that meant I had to skip the passives ( although I will take REl and REn as my last 2 powers ). It results in better S/L resistance ( by about 11% ) but less other resistances ( by about 11% ) and a defence that is about 6% higher. So it is of about the same magnitude.

You are probably slightly better off endurance wise than me.

Targeting Drone used to stay visible, now it disappears after a few seconds because some people considered it annoying. The effect you get from it is on until you turn the toggle off.

You only 'have' to toggle targeting drone on and off if you insist on having the annoying graphics there.

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I'm not so sure about that.
With the I6/ED Nerf I'm normally tougher in human form than in dwarf form. [...]

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My Invulnerability has worse resistances than my White Dwarf.

Tanker: 57.68% S/L*, 34.72% F/C/E/N/T**
Dwarf: 62.48% S/L/F/C/E/N/T***

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* 1-slotted Resist Physical Damage, 2-slotted Temp Invulnerability, 5-slotted Unyielding.
** 5-slotted Unyielding, 6-slotted Resist Elements and Energies.
*** 4-slotted White Dwarf.

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That slotting for your tank is old, it looks like an I4 capped resist build. [...]

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It's my I3 build I dinged 50 with. I am well aware of the changes to slotting and resitances/defences. Have tried several times thinking up a respec for him... to no avail.

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You're probably best leaving it, depressing as it may be. I imagine once you've experienced all 90% resists everything else seems poor... Somehow us active tanks soldier on though.

It looks like no one wants to help

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I'm not so sure about that.
With the I6/ED Nerf I'm normally tougher in human form than in dwarf form. [...]

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My Invulnerability has worse resistances than my White Dwarf.

Tanker: 57.68% S/L*, 34.72% F/C/E/N/T**
Dwarf: 62.48% S/L/F/C/E/N/T***

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* 1-slotted Resist Physical Damage, 2-slotted Temp Invulnerability, 5-slotted Unyielding.
** 5-slotted Unyielding, 6-slotted Resist Elements and Energies.
*** 4-slotted White Dwarf.

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That slotting for your tank is old, it looks like an I4 capped resist build.

The Inv set isn't about capping resistances anymore. Its about a combination of good S/L resistance, low resistance to other damage and good scalable defence. Mine has about 20% defence when in combat with one enemy. With 10 around me I have around 45% defence. This is with 16% resistance and about 80% resistance to S/L.

If you were comparing him to a current fire tank build, you would have a better argument, they have about 50% resistance to most things.

If you can spare the 6 slots you could, however I suspect your build will suffer in other ways due to neglecting slots in your primary. Another option is to slot all your attacking with a couple of end reducers.

As for the endurance cost of Tough and Weave, they were approximately doubled in I5 to about 0.42 ( from 0.22 in I4 ). The only data I have is my own tests which I obtained by respeccing a character into flight, leadership pool, tough and weave and finding out the time to run out of endurance with different toggles on.

I am assuming that the only changes since are the global endurance reduction introduced in I6.

I'm not replying to anyone in particular but to the thread as a whole.

My experience of doing the buff/debuff/heals thing comes from being a defender, who is Kinetic. He treats Siphon Power, Siphon Speed and the endurance drains as debuffs, Tranfusion and Transference are kind of like heals ( to health and end ) and Speed Boost and ID are definitely buffs.

I found that the single target buffs were great in the early levels, when I concentrated on Tranfusion, Siphon Power and Speed Boost, however when I got more powers it just got all too hectic. Healing ( whether health or end ) seems to be more fun to me than repetitive single target buffs. However the more offenderish debuffs were the thing that really made the character good.

From a general survivability point of view a combination of all of them is best, this is one of the great things ( in concept anyway ) about some of the new Corruptor powersets, the combinations of Heals, Single Target Buffs and Debuffs.

Unfortunately people don't often see the effect of debuffs and buffs but notice heals more.

Good idea. See sig...

I'm not sure what the power set should be but they should be some ranged and some melee and generally wacky all over.

Failing a toys set, being able to paint the Mercs set a flat plastic green would be nice.

I didn't like the power much when I did have it. It does seem a bit pointless having a Spines scrapper without concentrating on AoEs. Maybe thats why I don't play him much.

I was trying to work out whether Spine Burst + Whirlwind is a good fit. I can't decide, but I think it might not be as all the enemies are all over the place and so most will be out of range.

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PvE build you say? I stick by Resilience being invaluable to later levels when End drain comes into things, with 0 endurance those Malta can stun for a loooong time.

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I can get Resilience at 41... I'm unlikely to meet much Malta before then.

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Oh and leave my PvP build thread alone you PvEer!

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Sorry. I just thought it was very similar to your build.

My views on Tough and Weave are that they are very expensive. The end costs are large, both of them together will use up the extra endurance from stamina.
IMO the fighting pool is best for adding to existing defences. Tough works best on scrappers that have slash/lethal resistance. The only stalker that has this is regen and they don't get much. Weave works best to top up defence, but gives very little defence for its cost, so hardly anyone takes it. Combat Jumping is a better endurance investment than Weave, costing a small fraction of the endurance ( 20% perhaps ), giving about 66% of the defence and only costing one power pick.

Stalker builds are really tight, if you get stamina, you will have problems getting tough and weave. If you don't you will probably end up running out of endurance when you use them.

Well this is my build for my whirling death machine of death. I specced Unthing into it when I6 came along. I wouldn't call it Uber though.

01) --> Lunge==> Acc(1) Dmg(5) Dmg(5) Dmg(13) Rechg(21) Slow(21)
01) --> Fast Healing==> Heal(1) Heal(19) Heal(23)
02) --> Reconstruction==> Rechg(2) Heal(3) Rechg(3) Heal(11) Rechg(13) Heal(19)
04) --> Quick Recovery==> EndMod(4) EndMod(7) EndMod(7)
06) --> Hasten==> Rechg(6) Rechg(25) Rechg(25)
08) --> Impale==> Acc(8) Dmg(9) Dmg(9) Dmg(11) Rechg(15) EndRdx(15)
10) --> Dull Pain==> Rechg(10) Rechg(36) Rechg(37)
12) --> Swift==> Run(12)
14) --> Super Speed==> Run(14)
16) --> Integration==> Heal(16) Heal(17) Heal(17)
18) --> Health==> Heal(18)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20) EndMod(23) EndMod(31)
22) --> Maneuvers==> EndRdx(22)
24) --> Tactics==> EndRdx(24) TH_Buf(31) TH_Buf(34) TH_Buf(34)
26) --> Ripper==> Acc(26) Dmg(27) Dmg(27) Dmg(29) Rechg(29) EndRdx(31)
28) --> Instant Healing==> Rechg(28) Rechg(36) Rechg(36)
30) --> Build Up==> Rechg(30)
32) --> Throw Spines==> Acc(32) Dmg(33) Dmg(33) QuaShard(33) EndRdx(34)
35) --> Whirlwind==> EndRdx(35) EndRdx(37) KB_Dist(37) KB_Dist(39) EndRdx(39) KB_Dist(39)
38) --> Moment Of Glory==> DefBuf(38)

Endurance tends to be a problem as I run whirlwind 80-90% of the time. I don't play him much.

I was going to go for Dark Mastery.

This is not a PvP build ( not on purpose anyway ).

For sustained Whirlwind in PvE six slotting with 3 end reds and 3 knockbacks is essential. The knockbacks make a vast difference to the end drain of the power as the knockbacks are less frequent.

Tough is in the Fighting Pool, you need to get either Kick or Boxing in order to get Tough. Both are meh powers.

For your information I have Tough but not RPD. I should really write a guide to Invulnerability Tankers.

Note that the slotting I recommended is valid for Single Origin enhancements. If you have over-slotted some powers ( such as Temp Invulnerability ) you can take advantage of that with Dual Origin enhancements until later on.

For instance if you have 6 slots in Temp Inv, I would keep them in the short term ( as you are below level 22 and can't get hold of SOs ) and only respec when you have enough cash to put SOs in those powers.

None of the toggles are mutually exclusive.

I can't remember what teleport does but I think it is a white flash.

However when you move you will leave a black cloud behind you which will fade out I think.

I feel that I'm in the Coalition rather than any particular SG and the Armoured Core has been very empty lately. I'm up for combining the 2 SGs.

The strengths of Invulnerability are taking Slash/Lethal damage and fighting melee opponents.

Your weaknesses are ranged opponents who don't do slash/lethal damage.

The other rarer weakness you have is against Psi damage. However no tanks have particularly good defences against Psi.


You need Unyielding , Temp Invulnerability and Invincibility and either Resist Physical damage or Tough or both. I also think you should get Dull Pain ASAP too.

Temp Invulnerability needs to be slotted with 3 damage resists. Put a 4th slot in for end reduction. This has around a 30% base resistance, so you can get up to around 50% with 3 SO enhancements.

Unyielding needs to be slotted with 3 damage resists. Again put a 4th slot in for end reduction. These slots can wait if you are short. The resistance here is minimal maxing out at 16%.

Invincibility needs to be 3 slotted with defence buffs. I don't think this costs much endurance so you don't need an end red in here. It increases your defence as the number of enemies in melee increases. Learn to use it well.

As well as these you will need to fill out your slash/lethal resists. You have 3 choices for this

a) Resist Physical Damage, slot for 3 dam resistance. This gets your S/L resistance to around 62.5%.
b) Tough from the Fighting Pool, slot for 3 dam resistance and 2 end reds, you may need to put a 5th slot in Temp Invulnerability and Unyielding for end reducers to counter the end drain. Unfortunately you need boxing or kick from the fighting pool to get this. This gets your resistance up to about 75%.
c) Resist Physical Damage and Tough, as above. Slot Tough first though. You get Slash/Lethal resistance to about 85% with this, however whether it is worth it is debatable.

Other important powers are
Dull Pain, to be slotted 3 recharge and then 3 heal when you have the slots. This power is Really good as it increases your hitpoints by 40%, 60% when slotted with 3 heals. It also heals around 60% of your hitpoints fully slotted.
Tough Hide, offsets the defence penalty of Unyielding, slot with 3 defence buffs. Pick it up at level 26.
Resist Elements and Resist Energies can be picked up later ( late 20s to 30s ). They don't do much but they do patch up your defences against the weaker damage types.

Stamina, from the fitness pool. I think this is essential if you want to pick the fighting pool. If you aren't getting the fighting pool and you don't get stamina you may have to put extra end reducers in your 2 main toggles and possibly your attacks.

Weave, I recommend getting this if you go the fighting route and get stamina. Although this does limit the powers you can get from your primary and costs a lot of endurance for around 4.25 base defence. However most other people disagree with me on this point.

For PBAoEs the best defence you have is Hide, which unsupressed gives a defence in the 30s. When slotted with 3 SOs you should be able to cap the AoE component of defence out for minions and possibly Lts.

I don't think stealth has more than a 5% defence bonus unsupressed.

As far as perceptive enemies are concerned superspeed is as good for hiding as stealth in PvE IIRC.

How much Prestige does cake cost?

In my experience, at level 26 I can scrap fine without Fast Healing, using Integration ( 2SOs and a DO ) and Reconstruction. But then I have Health ( 40% rather than 75% ) instead as you can see.

If I'm against Bosses I have to scrap about half their health away. If I'm against just Minions in a team, rehiding is pretty pointless as the Brute or Masterminds hit them before I can. I only bother rehiding for Lts and higher.

As far as Fast Healing is concerned, I suppose it replaces 2 SOs in integration ( 3 with a SO ) that could be used for other things ( end reds ). However I doubt you will have slots for it for a while. It's starting to look more appealing. I guess its for the 32 level power then ( unless I respec and then it will replace Barb swipe ).

Happy Birthday D!