Unthing

I play my Sonic/Dark kind of like a defender, ie if I made a defender with the same powers I would play him exactly the same and pick pretty much the same powers, although in a different order.

He doesn't have the rez, I felt there were better powers to pick, but has pretty much every other secondary.

However I have Aim and 4 blasts, including an AoE, which make a reasonable attack chain.

So he would be in no way a pure defender, but would certainly be a boon to any team he is on, and is capable of the most scary -dmg and -res debuffs ever. But he also is capabale of quite nasty damage output.

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I confess the calculations kind of passed over my head. Something like a fulled slotted brute doing 100 dmg and with Assault it would be 105 dmg instead?

Whereas with -res if 100 dmg it would be.. ?

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115.

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P.S. seems Assault is 18.5% for a corruptor, so just between us two we are boosting almost 40$ of the team's damage, the -res not included.

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Not strictly true....

Assault is a 18.5% damage buff. This is applied additively to other damage buffs such as enhancements or Brute's Fury.

So an unslotted attack would do 118.5% of normal damage.
A 3 SO slotted attack would do 195+18.5%=213.5 of base damage, 109% of what it does without assault.
A brute with lots of fury could have anything up to 200 damage buff IIRC, to a full fury brute with 3 slotted attacks doing 395+18.5 = 413.5, a single assault only makes him do 5% more damage than without.

With a target debuffed by 15% res an unslotted attack would do 115% of normal damage.
With a target debuffed by 15% res a 3 slotted attack would do 195*1.15 = 224%, 115% of what it did without the debuff.
The same brute as mentioned above would be doing 395*1.15=454% of base damage, 115% of what they would do without the -res.

So if Disruption Field is always going to be better than Assault for damage increase, however Assault may be worthwhile if you want tactics.

-res also has the advantage that if anyone has a -dam debuff it actually improves it.

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Disruption shows as 16% damage in the builder (does Disruption stack on the same brute? Anyone knows its radius?), so I though, with Assault it would be 26% (Assault is 10% for Corruptors, right? Not sure), which again with my friend playing would mean we could give a 52% damage boost to the team, more if we consider we could use Sonic Siphon by targeting through the brute thus adding a 30% extra (correct numbers for Sonic Siphon?) + which ever piddly ammount our sonic attacks would bring.

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The Sonic primary attacks are not piddly, they are all -15% res debuffs ( which stack ). res debuffs work on a mod damage = normal damage * (1+total res debuff) scale.

1st Attack is about 4-5 seconds duration.
2nd Attack and Howl are about 6-7 seconds duration.
Shout and Screech are about a 10 seconds duration.

Note that these are about the same as the recharge time + animation of the single target attacks, the first attack used in isolation will wear off after you hit the second one.
So if you had all 4 attacks and kept them going you would be debuffing a single target by -60% res. It is awesome against AVs.

With 1 recharge and Hasten or 3 recharges you should be able to keep spawns debuffed by an additional 15% res with Howl, around the same as the Sonic debuff toggle and you do damage too.

Also Assault is a damage buff, so acts differently and is less good than -res. It is like having an extra DO enhancement for all allies that is not effected by ED.

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I am only at lvl 26, so I am not an expert Tank (this is my first Tank alt). My observations are:-

1) communicate with your team;

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This is good, it's nice to have a few binds and macros to tell them common things. [ I'm bringing them here stay out of sight ]
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2) be aware of the composition of the team and the likely weaknesses/strengths inherent in the group;
3) in most situations I use my AOE taunt (Mud Pots) and aim to get centre/farside of the mob while the team waits. I secure the mobs aggro then PBAOE with combustion - which is the teams signal to open up. I then use taunt to draw any loose mobs to me;

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Never underestimate the power of Combustion as an aggro consolidation tool. It has a nice AoE, larger than your taunt Aura and does DoT damage this annoys the enemies. Foot Stomp from SS is also good, doing Knockdown instead of DoT, but it is available at lvl 38 rather than level 4.
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4) corner pulling is really useful;

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Corner pulling is the safest way to tank. It is also the best way to get your team's AoE attacks to be devastating. It ensures that you can keep the enemies in your Aura. My tanking playstyle is very corner-pull heavy.
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5) the biggest problems I have are: (a) the blasters opening up too soon; (b) mob scatter due to AOE rains; (c) holds going off before mobs are gathered. Talk to the team (see (1).

Those are my observations. I love tanking and get great satisfaction from working with he team - I think they enjoy it more too as a result.

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One thing that I've noticed is that some tanks tend to herd a bit too much. IMO the tank should not be away from the team herding for much longer than 15-30 seconds or he is wasting everyones time.
Unless there are 2 really close spawns I would just get one spawn and make sure they all see me, then duck round a corner. If I'm soloing or duoing I might get more than one.
If you try and gather up 3-4 spawns on a large team you end up with so many stragglers, clearing them up afterwards takes longer. Also you can only have 17 enemies attacking you and can probably only keep 10-15 taunted ( aura is 10 closest, + taunt is 5 ranged and punchvoke is 5 but they are probably in your aura ).

IMO Hurdle is useless without Combat Jumping. Hurdle gives you a long/fast jump but no air control.

Hurdle and Combat Jumping is interesting, it gives you really good mobility and speed in missions but could be against your concept ( for my Ice tank, Hibernal flea it is completely in concept ). Using CJ and Hurdle in combination with CE allows you to completely jump rings around the enemy at low levels, later on ( 26 with Energy Absorption ) I've found I don't use that much.

I don't have it on my Inv/Fire because Hurdle + CJ means you lose some fine control in melee, ie jumping over a single enemy in a spawn that are attacking you. With 2 PbAoEs I need the fine control.

I would recommend getting Hurdle and CJ, Hurdle + CJ is faster than swift providing you don't mind bouncing everywhere. If you do mind jumping everywhere get swift.

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Also going for fly as your travel power will you also be taking th leeping pool as you will need acrobatics unless you want to spend alot of time on the floor.

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No way. I'd rather abandon the character than take acrobatics.. Hover works as anti-knockback very well. It only stops working when you get a -fly power on you ( damn those Tuathas ).

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Also Burn is not worth getting any more even after i7 its still no good the recharge rate sucks as does the damage out put thanks to ED and every time you drop it bad guys run 2 miles away from you, its shame to use to be such a great power.

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I think I'd rather get burn as my immob protection than Combat Jumping or Weave. Getting combat jumping means not getting Hasten later on and Weave is quite expensive. I would slot it for recharge and hope it is up when I get immobolized. I don't know whether you have had this but an immobolized tank is really screwed up.

However if this doesn't work well I will have to respec and go for Weave instead. Does anyone know the immob protection duration of burn?

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With my fire blaster I don't feel I can let rip with full power unless there is a tank with skill. Taunt, aura, whatever it's irrelevant. Lack of skill makes someone not a tank, NOT their power choices....

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The powers are the tools, using them correctly in combination with positioning and correct targetting is the skill. I have seen tanks with taunt who tank poorly and have seen tanks not use taunt who have tanked well. However a tank with no aura, no taunt and no attacks would be a poor tank whatever the skill of the player.

It isn't black and white however much people wish it to be. Personally I like having all the tools for the job, but would not particularly persecute a tank for not having taunt until I have seen them tank.

Despite this I would still recommend it as a great power.

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I have myself been trying to revive the fire/fire tank I've persuaded a mate to roll a fire/emp troller and have herded, 17 at a time, ourselves to 31

Heres a quick plan of what I would do to 38 carrying on with your build:


22) --> Breath of Fire==> Empty(22)
24) --> Burn==> Empty(24)
26) --> Boxing==> Empty(26)
28) --> Tough==> Empty(28)
30) --> Build Up==> Empty(30)
32) --> Fiery Embrace==> Empty(32)
35) --> Hasten==> Empty(35)
38) --> Incinerate==> Empty(38)


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That's very similar to what I was planning...

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Possibly even take Fire Sword instead of BU or FE for more single target damage.

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It's a shame that doing that goes against the concept and look.

This is a concept build. I want to spend most of my time in the air, I don't want a sword powers from the secondary. I want to look very superheroey.

This is my current build at level 21.

Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Fiery Aura
Secondary: Fiery Melee
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Fire Shield==> DmgRes(1) DmgRes(3) DmgRes(3)
01) --> Scorch==> Acc(1)
02) --> Blazing Aura==> Acc(2) Dmg(11) Dmg(15) Dmg(15) EndRdx(17) EndRdx(17)
04) --> Healing Flames==> Rechg(4) Rechg(5) Rechg(5) Heal(9) Heal(9) Heal(11)
06) --> Hover==> Fly(6) Fly(7) Fly(7)
08) --> Combustion==> Acc(8) Dmg(19) Dmg(19)
10) --> Taunt==> Rechg(10)
12) --> Plasma Shield==> DmgRes(12) DmgRes(13) DmgRes(13)
14) --> Fly==> Fly(14)
16) --> Swift==> Run(16)
18) --> Health==> Heal(18)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20) EndMod(21) EndMod(21)

Currently endurance is fine, hover speed is a tad slow but I get SOs soon so that will improve. I use fly to bosst my speed in mission and turn off Blazing Aura when not in combat.

One challenge I've had is immobolises, from those irritating Galaxy troops. I have a choice of 3 powers to deal with that, Burn, Weave or Combat Jumping.

I am considering getting the fighting pool, I feel too squishy at the moment and it looks like I'll be able to afford tough endrunace wise.

I'm trying to work out if Hasten is a good plan. If I get Burn for breaking out of immobs it may be a good power to take as it will allow me to use it more often and make it a decent attack power when in a team with a controller.

I need to work out what to get next, I'd like to get Breath of Fire soon, I need more single target damage and the short cone may be okay for getting 2 or 3 enemies, also it might be useful for kiting bosses. I should probably get tough soon too.

So any suggestions for my 22-30 build?

I've tried the respec, with 3 slotted hover on DOs, it is a little slow but not excruciating. I think the secret to this flying fire tank build is switching between fly and hover and turning off Blazing Aura when not required.

I'll see what it is like with SOs...

PS Hero builder lists 3 slotted hover flight as 24 fps, faster than base movemenet ( 21 fps ). For DOs this is only 14 fps.

Is there any reason why you didn't get Follow Up, I'm curious?

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im not sure i follow you on this comment, no tank can protect against a pbaoe of any type, its point blank, anything in that pointblank radius is going to get a hit check on them, taunting said av doesnt make a pbaoe any less pbaoeish.

and tauntless tanks can easily maintain aggro on av's, just keep hitting them and they stick to you fine, the only time you'll lose agro is if you run out of endurance or you die or you stop hitting them.

maybe i missed the point of your comment?

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I think you can protect the team against AV pbaoes by taunt kiting the AV and let the team get in close. As the AV only attacks you and the AoE is never in range the rest of the team is safe. I've seen it done but never actually done it, probably because I've mainly teamed with blasters as my tanks.

I doubt you can do this without taunt.

I have a level 20 fire/fire tank ( my first character ever ) sitting on defiant with an Issue 6 freespec to burn.

I was wondering if anyone had tried 3 slotted hover as an alternative to acrobatics, is it fast enough?

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After reading a few posts like this I became slightly concerned that my tanker can't fit taunt into her build until lvl 24 due to the need to fit her travel power and Stamina in. If it was still available at lvl 4 this wouldn't be an issue, but after reading a few replies I'm a tad worried about how easy it'll be to get her into a team before then.

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How come? How many attacks did you get? What type of tank are you?

Stone has the hardest choices at low level, the others have more missable powers with Fire being in the best position.

My general plan for building a tank is by level 20 they should get the self heal, the basic S/L toggle armour, the mez protection and the taunt aura. This allows room for 2 attacks, taunt, travel power and prerequisite, stamina, health and hurdle or swift.

My opinion of pre 20 tanking is most people don't expect it. Provided you actually take more than your fair share of aggro and actively try to tank you should be okay.

For keeping aggro a taunt aura is far far more important.

IMO it is more that a player who doesn't take taunt on their tank is less likely to care about aggro control and so I never expect them to do the full aggro control thingy.

Personally I swear by the power and got so [censored] off at my Ice tank not having it before level 10 or 12 that I changed my build to fit it in.

There are ways of playing as a tauntless tank that can make it's absence not an issue in 95% of circumstances but all of them require far more effort on the part of the tank. For instance my Ice tank has enough maneuverabilty to jump completely out of combat, hit sometime to Punchvoke it and jump back before the mobs have even moved.

PS I think a kitten just died.

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Okay,copied my blaster to test,respecced and tested tough with an even level council LT.

Without tough,he shot me for 5.25 dmg/tick.
With tough,he shot me for 4.7 dmg/tick.
0.55 dmg reduction = 10,48%

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Seems pretty conclusive...

Can you give a link for the damage resistance table that you quoted? It seems to be hidden in the depths of a large thread...

Personally I would go with explicit testing if you really care. Testing resistance is not hard.

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Tough is 7.5% resistance to S/L damage. ( 12% enhanced )


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Tough for Blasters is 10.5% base.
Still the lowest number for all ATs.

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My source was DrRock's AT comparision which states 15% for tankers, 11.25% for scrappers and 7.5% for blasters what is yours? The fact that the multiplier for blasters for are different for Tough and Weave seems a bit suspicious now that I think about...

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I keep asking myself why isnt the endurance cost of tough and weave scaleable to the base level of resistance and defense respectively that you gain from it, making it at least low endurance costing for blasters.

The lower the def and res which are scaleable to the AT the lower the end cost which would be fairer.

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It could be, given how irritating it is to test end costs.

However I doubt the devs do this as it they have balanced things in other ways. It does sound very fair.

They also don't do this with many other powers, AFAIK only blasters have an end discount to attacks comapared to their defender equivalents.

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No numbers, but it's really useful.

Really comes into play fighting Archvillians, or other Scrappers. The problem is running it in prolonged fights like these can be a bit harsh on the Endurance.

Using it as a slow for normal mobs will be useless because they wont be alive very long with a Spines on the team.

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Very true... I hadn't really thought about it as an AVs defence... I wonder how much of that is the spines poison from the other powers.

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So the buff of FA and Rage is about the same... duly noted .

I think I'll keep the enhancements in Rage, though .

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Yes, good plan, after all you get Rage earlier.

There is a possibility that FA is 25% and Rage is only 20% but even so I still think it is worth putting the ToHit Buffs in Rage.

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End cost I'm not sure about - does Hero Stats measure this?


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No. The only way I know of of getting end costs is a bit irritating and time consuming.

Using test, respec into the powers you want, make sure that you also pick lots of expensive powers such as the leadership pool, fly and whirlwind. Activate random powers and keep activating other toggles until your endurance starts going down, then turn off fly and wait until your endurance gets to 100. Then you need to turn on fly and start a stopwatch, and stop it when you run out of end. Then repeat this with the power you want the end cost of. Repeat this a few times until you are very bored.

end cost = (100 / time to crash with toggle) - (100/ time to crash without toggle).

Ideally to get accurate results you want the time to crash to be as long as possible.

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Decided to keep the ToHit Buffs in Rage because it has the highest base buff with 50%, which goes up to a lovely 78% three-slotted.

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It is not 50%, I don't know where they got the 50% from the hero planners but from running about 5 mission with Herostats on my Brute it is in the 20-25% range, 50% would mean unenhanced powers would be capped to 95% even against purple minions which is certainly not the case. On my tanker I still miss occasionally and I run perma-Rage so I expect it is the same as the brute.

However FA + Rage gives you more than 50% to hit buff which is pretty extreme, effectively negating any defensive powerset in PvP.

I have just made a Mind/Trick Arrow controller. Can any high level controllers offer advice on the good powers, it seems like it might be a good secondary.