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Most of the story does unfold based on level, making the assumption that we encounter content (and the revelations it makes) in the same chronological order that we gain levels in.
The SSAs seem to be an explicit exception to that trend, because they are setting up a game world change that will happen at some point in real-world time, as opposed to the presumed time line presented to us as we level.
It does raise an interesting question. Since (according to Positron) at some point the game lore will be updated to explicitly remove (edit: a living) Statesman, does that mean the SSAs are transient, and will eventually go away? They largely seem to exist to set up Statesman's death. Once he's gone and removed, that won't make any sense. -
Quote:Don't worry, it didn't escape at least my notice. I only got on the bandwagon after some folks used your OP as a platform for (what I felt) was anti-Hasten propaganda.I chose "flourish without" after some consideration, and a number of tries that didn't feel so clear to me. I'm not dumping on Hasten, just interested in what sorts of characters get less from it than many.
Willpower, already mentioned, is kind of my poster child for a powerset that basically gains nothing from Hasten. There are only two click powers in it, and only one can actually benefit from recharge. Given that it's one of the least helpful self-rez powers out there, I'm not sure it gets taken a lot, and a power you don't have doesn't benefit much from +rech.
So if you're <anything>/Willpower, how much you can thrive without Hasten comes down almost entirely to how well the <anything> part does without it. -
Yep. Just affirming what others have said. Virtue server has become associated with frequent/open RP play, and you can probably find someone on most servers who might be interested in it if you check the server-specific forums. Virtue seems like the place to start unless you have your heart set on something else. It's also a fairly populous server.
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It was for PvE too. I won't claim they were great shakes as "exploits" go, but you could pretty easily speed past stuff and mow it all down with something like Full Auto from a range that was so far out, mobs would not respond to it. I think they were trying to address several things at the same time when they changed it.
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We cannot take the absence of a feature to mean that the ability to do something was explicitly decided against. It could also mean it did not occur to them that people would want it. There is a world of difference in "we thought of you doing this but chose not to give you the ability" and "we just didn't think about you doing this".
If the devs came out and said they never wanted closed leagues, that'd be one thing. But to Ironblade and Forbin's points, even if they did say that at one point, they've clearly changed their minds. -
Quote:Since this got quoted for affirmation, I want to point out that the above is a wonderful example of "you're not like me, so I'm going to denigrate you".Most anyone willing to enjoy using a versatile variety of powers and doesn't suffer an unhealthy fascination with a "three power, max DPS, thinking about combat actions is HARD" attack chain.
Someone who who thinks planning attack actions is hard pretty much has no reason to be planning out high DPS attack chains, because they're of pretty limited value unless you plan on doing something where they matter. High DPS attack chains are of no great use for PLing or farming - they're pretty much only good for burning down AVs or +3 and higher foes. Now, if you're doing that on a team, there's a decent chance you can do it with your brain turned off. There's also a decent chance you (again) don't need highly tuned attack chains to achieve it - let your team debuff the targets into the ground, and unless it's an AV/GM, they can also pretty much AoE them into oblivion for you. But if you're doing things like that solo, that's not really an environment where most players can turn their brain off, and therefore have their brain in a state that actually can't handle planning their attack actions.
The people mostly likely to actually care about highly tuned DPS chains are the last players you're going to find planning their attack actions hard. There are certainly some players who may lust after knowing what's "optimal", but that's not the same kind of player.
And that's kind of my whole point. The above quote suggests that people who would actually use Hasten all the time are some sort of mouth-breathing Neanderthal who is using it because their brain can't handle an attack chain longer than four powers. And that's got to be the most novel insult against the min/maxing mindset I think I've ever heard.
If you're going to stereotype people, at least get the stereotype right. -
Quote:Sounds like me.Some time after trials were launched, I started carrying trays of all large/super insps with a row of small purples to stay softcapped. I rarely use them at all, so I'm missing out on a lot of +dmg, but they've helped in some tricky situations. I've basically traded peak performance for reliable performance.
Quote:My definition of "sucky league" has now been updated to "any league where I have to use the whole tray". -
I don't have one character that lacks Hasten.
I'm not going to tell anyone they better take Hasten or they'll be gimp. I'm certainly mystified by the number of claims of builds that don't benefit meaningfully from it. I can only think of certain situations where this would be true.
- The characters have no important click powers on 12 second timers or more (certainly possible with some builds)
- The characters do have important clicks on long timers, but have so much global recharge already that adding even 70% more recharge to the base wouldn't shave enough time off the total recharge time to notice the difference.
- They don't regularly play their characters in such stressful environments that they pine for their long-recharge powers to come back faster that often, and so don't value Hasten's boost based on its downsides (subjective and/or objective).
If I only took Hasten when I could make it "perma", I'd miss out on its benefits a lot. Conflicting build goals and given powerset choices mean I can't always have truly insane amounts of global recharge - enough for perma-Hasten is usually a bit out of reach for most of my characters. But unless my recharge is debuffed, being just shy of perma Hasten usually means only a few seconds of down time for it. That's a brief enough variation in performance that I'm pretty willing to tolerate it. -
So, what's with this proliferation of threads in the form: "X - a Y or what?"
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I think his suggestion to make something as game-bending as being able to buy two primary powersets exclusively in the paragon market would cause the forums to explode. I know it was just an example, but anything on that scale of changing the rules accessible only to folks who buy it would not be well-received here, IMO.
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The LFG queue concept is schizophrenic. On the one hand, it's a great way to jump into a team without forming or being recruited for one. On the other hand, not all teams formed completely at random work well. The DFB trial is such that, in general, completely randomly assembled teams are probably OK. A fair bit of content would probably be OK like that. Incarnate Trials are not like that, especially the newest ones.
Another issue with the LFG queue (one of many, IMO, but this isn't the thread for that) is that its rules are more ... arcane than I think most people expect. They are not clearly documented in the interface, and the short, simple descriptions on the interface are potentially misleading. For example, "Willing to join in progress" will never add you to any trial team that already has the minimum number of players - something I don't think is documented anywhere in the interface. -
Right. In effect, your shifts are calculated first, and then the GM scaling is calculated. That means that the only effect it's possible for a level shift to have is to change where you are in the quoted rules (below, at or above the GM's "native" level).
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Quote:As in-world game logic goes, that particular horse left the barn in CoH beta. Why are steam-powered robots dropping Facial Reconstruction tech? Why do Council drop training in Back Alley Brawler attack styles? Sure, with SOs and the like there's a nod towards appropriateness of drops in the very broad sense of origins, but some of that really makes no sense at all. Why is my fist brawler with the power of the netherworld slotting Internal Ammunition?Yes, and as a casual player who doesn't want to turn the game into a second job, I am very much appreciative of this design choice. But in terms of in-world logic and immersion, the fact that Clockwork Cogs can drop Regenerative Flesh is a failure. At the end of the day I don't mind this too much because I realize that's the price to be paid for the overall convenience level I enjoy in the game. But it is still less than ideal, afaic.
Given that we've had to accept such things all along, I hardly single the Invention system out for its lack of fictional sensibility. -
Quote:Farmers have nothing to do with why it's important that it not work that way. It's everyone else that it matters to. Making components for crafting drop only from specific foes is a barrier to obtaining things crafted with them. Right now it doesn't matter if there are no farmers out collecting Hydraulic Pistons - you can go play a couple missions (any missions) and get some your self, and you can be completely confident someone else is probably getting some right now.I dunno. Farming of any kind could be considered boring and lame depending on your point of view. Whether I have to fight a hundred clockwork or a hundred random mobs that don't mean anything to me, what does it really matter? Farming is killing things just for the drops; when did it ever matter to a farmer what the enemy model looked like?
Instead, locking loot behind specific mobs means that someone, somewhere must be willing to run that content. Why create situations that practically beg for the creation of farmers who then essentially end up strongly influencing how easy it is for to craft certain things ?
The drop system was almost certainly not created to enable or promote that kind of play. It was much more likely created to create certain "average time to obtain" for certain classes of item. While the time to obtain salvage is usually a pittance compared to that for the recipes that need them, the whole thing amounts quite intentionally to some time spent by players mucking around with the system instead of doing other things. But because it's largely "equal opportunity", it feels more "fair" than locking obtaining certain things behind certain content.
We have our versions of that kind of gating. We have very fuzzy level-based gates around what level of foes drop certain things. We have incarnate stuff gated behind level 50. But overall, CoH's drop system is very open. -
Quote:That explanation doesn't hold water.It was apparent from that perspective, even after the purple patch, that the entirety of the combat mechanic w/ the numbers seeded by "creative" slotting through the whole balance off it's axis.
The sheer and savage fire power unleashed from max SO's was beyond the pale.
Something needed to be done.
It was going to hurt and hurt it did.
But like ripping a bandaid stuck off the skin which takes some hair with it causing pain, it it better to pull it off in one quick tug then go the route of slow agony.
Someone got paid to make that decision to yank it hard, and w/ the perspective of history, it might have been the best decision to make given the circumstances at the time.
Common advice back then was 1-2 Accuracy and 4-5 Damage SOs. Let's assume 1 Acc/5 Dam. The rule of thumb is that ED lets us get to 3 Dam. But that's just a rule of thumb. Typical results from 5- or 6-slotting damage sets puts you easily in the 120-140% raw damage enhancement, and will easily get you to around 105% damage enhancement after ED. Then we consider set bonuses. A lot of my builds get around half an SO's worth of damage bonus from sets by accident - I'm not building for it, it just works out that way. So we're already easily up to around 3.5 SO's worth of damage slotting. Because of the way enhancements add to the base, that puts us up around 75% of where 5 SOs got us. That's before including the damage boosting benefits of something like a damage proc in your attack, compared to those of adding a 6th piece that enhances damage.
Then we have to consider that we can now get all that damage while, in the same 5-6 slots, getting more than an SO's worth of accuracy, more than an SO's worth of endurance reduction, and more than an SO's worth of recharge. Typically you can get around two SO's worth of each of those and one SO's worth of one other. So our 5-6 slots are earning us something like 9-10 slots worth of enhancement, not counting any set bonuses. Then you include that we can probably also have a decent chunk of additional global recharge, a moderate amount of defense to at least one major position vector or damage type pair, and gobs of endurance recovery, and we're able to fire those attacks that are up around 75% of pre-ED damage per activation more often, for longer without stopping, at least as accurately, while being more survivable.
And that's all before Incarnates. If you happen to pick up tier 4 Musculature, you get just shy of an extra SO's worth of damage on every attack, potentially putting you at 4.5 slots worth, or about 93% of where our damage per activation was pre-ED. Before any Interfaces.
If the primary goal of ED was to calm down the rampaging damage we were doing, somebody took that goal out behind a shed, garotted it and dissolved it in a vat of acid. The body has never been found. -
Mine never made it out of the box. I tried a pre-release/beta build of it at the last of the UVALANs, wasn't very impressed, bought it anyway, saw the reaction of the rest of the community, and never bothered with it.
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Quote:Curiosity-inspired question, not a prelude to judgment of your opinion by me: did you play the original?Tribes 2 is my most favorite game ever, after COH. Personal preference, I guess.
Tribes 2 was a much slower-paced game than Tribes. Community mods did bridge the gap some ("classic mod"), but it was never the same. Tribes 2 also failed to port over the game types I and all my tribemates* most enjoyed: Defend and Destroy and Capture and Hold. While I played it a lot because it was everywhere, Capture the Flag was not my passion at all.
* In the Tribes community, it was a "tribe", not a "clan". -
That's a good point, and it never even occurred to me before. I've now added it in.
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Quote:You're right. I didn't mean it to be that extreme, but I didn't really articulate what I was thinking. I've played games like those you mentioned, but I was never in love with any of them. As such, it didn't do much for me that their sequels were the original games with some fresh fixes, tune ups or content.That seems a bit too absolute, Guy. A great many sequels to existing games are pretty much the same game all over again, but with a few new weapons.
What I should have said is that I have never, ever played a game I loved playing that had a sequel that I also loved playing.
Probably the game I can say I most loved playing the most besides CoH was not an MMO, but an FPS, named Tribes. Perhaps tellingly, it had a very important characteristic in common with CoH: one of the most important things shaping its gameplay ended up being a complete accident - you could "ski" down sloped surfaces (very much like skiing in the Chalet, as it turns out) and use this to build speed. Especially combined with a form of rocket jumping, even the slowest, most plodding (and heavily armed) armors in the game could build up immense speed and cross large maps to rain from the sky on opposing forces. It made for insanely fast, three-dimensional chaos, and a very loyal but small group of people fell in love with it. Sound familiar?
Now, Tribes' unexpected physics engine side effect didn't pull the rug out of the player-vs.-player balance the way CoH's design errors did for the player-vs.-environment balance. But it definitely turned it into a radically different game than its devs imagined it was going to be. And its devs embraced it. Ours here have too, I think, but it took a long time.
Tribes 2? Not so much. They put skiing in, but explicitly tried to slow it down, because their new lead dev had a "vision" of large-scale unit combat that was incompatible with the original Tribes' mobility and speed. As a result, Tribes 2 felt like moving through Jello compared to the original. A bit like going into a PvP zone in CoH today and comparing how you move there to a PvE zone. -
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Quote:This is where we disagree, strongly. Most of the issues with this game are cosmetic. The only ones I would say that have the "cancer risk" aspect are core to its game mechanics (buff stacking and the like), which are what I think are the most fragile aspects of its personality. I despair of anyone putting together a non-"broken" system like this that I would actually enjoy the way I have this one. Because, and I'll be brutally honest here, I enjoy this one in large part because it's broken. That it had that and all those other things I liked, ranging from character customization to the comic book genre, was just a perfect storm, IMO.That said, I'm not really asking for the "body of a supermodel for my wife," as you put it. It's more like my wife has a bad heart, is diabetic, has a family history that makes her very high risk for cancer, and a childhood accident cost her a kidney, and if I could I'd love to have all those internal bits put right.
Like a couple of other posters, I'd rather take the bad with the good, because I really don't think the bad is that bad, and I have such strong doubts that the good would be translated into a successor. -
Quote:There are a lot of factors, ranging from efforts to expand the game to new players (a new graphics engine and overall performance boost alone will not be viewed as likely to do this), to the fact that the new game will be made by new people with new ideas. Even if the current devs worked on CoH 2.0, they aren't the original ones, and they certainly have ideas about things they would do differently.I'm not sure why we couldn't just have this. Just fold the storylines and powers over from 1.0 to 2.0. I think this is what people are really wanting.
Briefly, if you invest in the creation of the new thing from the ground up, a variety of forces are going to ensure it really is a new thing, and not the old thing with a coat of chrome and a larger carburetor. -
Background
This is a very focused guide on pretty much a single mechanic in one Incarnate Trial. In the Underground trial, you face three custom Goliath War Walkers. Each of them has slightly different tactics required to defeat them, but all of them posses the same offensive capabilities. The War Walkers have an array of standard attacks that are pretty much the same as the War Walkers found in the Apex and Tin Mage TFs, the Keyes trial, etc. I won't cover those more standard attacks here. I'll be focusing on four abilities possessed by these War Walkers that are currently unique to the Underground trial.
The main powers of interest are:
- Targeting Reticule
- Lethal Force Authorized
- Arrest Mode
- Crowd Dispersal
First, I'm going to lay out my understanding of how these effects work. Then, I'll offer suggestions for how to deal with the effects, but hopefully that will be obvious to everyone if I explain the effects themselves well.
How the Special Attacks Work
Targeting
The Targeting Reticule power is not an attack in the classical sense. It is something that the War Walkers have to hit people with in order to make them eligible to be affected by their other special powers. Periodically, while issuing more standard attacks against players, the Underground War Walkers use the Targeting Reticule power. This power has the following critical attributes.
- This is a power they aim at one target.
- It has a 120' range for reaching that one target
- Critically, it has a 30' burst radius around the one target.
- It can hit a maximum of 16 targets.
- The effect applies a status "tag" to everyone it hits which makes them eligible for the other special effects these War Walkers use.
- The effect puts the status message "TARGETED" in your status tray.*
- The effect can miss, but it has no attack types (only Base defense works against it, which we mostly can't get), and a very high 2.0 accuracy (multiplied by the Walkers' AV rank modifier and the fact that they are at least +2 to any existing Incarnates). It is therefore unlikely to miss.
Attacking Targeted Foes
Once you're targeted, the Walkers can hit you with their other effects. I'll get into the specifics of the effects they can apply shortly, but I want to start with the common attributes of all these attacks.
- These attacks only affect people who are "TARGETED", as described above.
- These attacks will never affect Desdemona. They explicitly exclude her as a valid target.
- Which attack the War Walker uses is random, and basically equally weighted at a 33% chance each of being used.
- The attacks are PBAoEs centered on the War Walkers, with a 300' radius.
- The attacks ignore line of sight. They can affect you even if you hide behind a wall.
- The attacks can affect up to 255 targets.
- The attacks can miss, but also have no attack types and a 2.0 accuracy, like the targeting effect.
- When a TARGETED character is hit by these attacks, the effect is a burst AoE centered on them.
- The burst affects up to 16 other targets in a 30' burst around the TARGETED character, again with no attack types and a 2.0 accuracy. (The attacker in this case is a "Pet" ranked entity, not an AV, but that may be worse, as such entities have a base 75% chance to hit players. Like the War Walker, it will be at least +2 to existing Incarnates.)
Here are what the three effects do.
Crowd Dispersal - this is a 10 second base duration, mag 1000 Terrorize. (Duration is modified by level difference, and the AVs will be at least +2.) This is a resistible effect. Just before the Walker unleashes this attack, everyone near it will see "Crowd Dispersal" flash on screen in red text.
Arrest Mode - this is a 10 second base duration, mag 1000 Hold. (Duration is modified by level difference, and the AVs will be at least +2.) This is a resistible effect. Just before the Walker unleashes this attack, everyone near it will see "Arrest Mode" flash on screen in red text.
Lethal Force Authorized - This is a DoT comprised of five ticks of Energy damage delivered every 1 second. Each tick will cause 30% of your max HP in damage to you (15% of max HP to NPCs). This damage is resistible. Add that up and you'll notice that this is 150% of your base HP in damage. If you can't resist this or heal it back part way through, it will defeat you. Just before the Walker unleashes this attack, everyone near it will see "Lethal Force Authorized" flash on screen in red text.
How to Avoid The Effects
The simplest way to survive all this is to not get TARGETED in the first place. This is actually fairly simple, if you know what to (not) do and you have a sturdy taunter on the league.
The league should assign someone to be the lead "tank" for the War Walkers. They have to be pretty durable, whether that be via innate durability and/or via support from the league, but they need to be able to survive focusing the War Walker's full attention on themselves. Other characters should not taunt the War Walkers. Naturally, if you can appoint a back-up taunter this may be wise, in case the lead does get defeated.
During each War Walker fight, the league and the taunter should try and stay away from each other. If the taunter is at least 30' from anyone else, the War Walker will only ever hit the taunter with its Targeting Reticule. This does mean the taunter will suffer the full effects of the War Walker's special attacks, in addition to its more standard attacks, which is why support and/or a stand-in taunter may be important.
This isn't a guide on how to tank foes, but I want to mention that the designated taunters need to understand aggro and taunt mechanics well enough to ensure they can keep the Walkers' aggro focused on them. An Underground trial has a max league size of 24 players, so there are fair chances that multiple people in the league will be good at pulling aggro, via things like a taunt auras or "Gauntlet" taunt effects on their attacks. Some of these can be turned off, but others can't, or doing so is unwise. Try to make sure the designated taunter is actually one of the most likely people to hold the Walkers' aggro. If you're that taunter, make sure you're both taunting and using some sort of attacks, because damage dealt combines with taunt to make NPCs hate you. If you only use a taunt power, your damage-dealing leaguemates may still outrank you and take the War Walker's aggro, with potentially disastrous effect.
How to Survive the Effects
Stuff happens, and the best laid plans sometimes go awry. You may get TARGETED slapped on you despite efforts to avoid it. Or maybe you're the taunter? What do you do now?
The first thing you need to do (and this is pretty common knowledge now) is get away from your leaguemates. If you don't, whatever is coming your way is going to land on them too. The negative effects of this could range to loss of DPS on the Walker as everyone is mezzed to a massive wipe of the league due to Lethal Force.
If you're the taunter, you're hopefully already doing this to try and avoid getting other people TARGETED to start with. You just want to try and move out of that 30' range of your leaguemates, perhaps trying to lead the Walker in a small circle as you move around. After all, the Walker will probably try and chase you, unless it gets hemmed in by the league. One thing I often see, especially with the Lichen War Walker, is that the taunter gets the War Walker to press up against the wall as far as possible from any Regenerating Lichen. While this is wise, it's important to not position yourself such that the league has to surround you to fight the War Walker. Everyone will be slathered with targeting and Lethal Force will stack to unmanageable levels. Keep moving if the league presses in too close. You can keep the War Walker mostly against the wall without staying in one place.
If you're not the taunter, you are free to try to flee for the hills when TARGETED. To completely avoid follow up attacks you have to get 300' away. Don't bother trying to hide behind walls - it does nothing. Now 300' is pretty far away, so it's a lot more efficient to just try not to get targeted to start with! But there are other options.
If running that far away isn't viable or you'd rather try not to be taken out of the fight, taking on buffs to resist the mezzes or the Energy damage are your next best bets. Break Free and Robust class inspirations are decent self-help here, but league/ally buffs are really your friend. Barrier and Clarion are going to improve your lot in life a lot - something to remember when supporting that taunter who's eating these effects every time. Also, a well-timed Rebirth, fired right after the warning for "Lethal Force Authorized" can avoid a lot of defeats of people.
Clearly, the two mez effects Walkers can fire have immense magnitude. If you are hit by them, you can't use Clarion to try and break out of them; at its peak, the strongest Clarion protection is mag 30 protection, so you would need more than 30 people using it to break out of the mezzes, assuming no other mez protections. However, these are resistible effects, so Clarion and other powers that provide appropriate mez resistance do reduce the duration of the mezzes.
In Summary
In summary, assign lead taunters, keep them and the rest of the mass of the league at least 30' apart, and be ready with buffs that resist holds, terrorizes and energy damage, plus heals. A league prepared with these tactics can make short work of the War Walkers, ensuring 60 Threads and a good shot at the Avatar later in the trial.
* Your status tray is the area underneath your power icons where indicators for status effects appear. This includes things like "HELD", "PLACATED" and "BLINDED". -
Once upon a time, I am fairly sure that "on your head" ambushes were quite a bit more rare. Spawning them in far-away places like other floors of a multi-floor map seemed much more common, and having an ambush appear in sight was considered odd and especially jarring. These days, I consider it odd when an ambush does appear far away from me, and standard to expect them to teleport into my immediate presence. I don't know when it changed, because it seems like the migration was gradual.