UberGuy
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Posts
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Quote:Both changed. We were speed running ITFs, STFs, LRSFs Apex and Tin Mage before we got any Incarnate powers.Originally Posted by Chyron HR
Sure, it's not that everyone is now a level higher, with tons of defense/recharge set bonuses, crashless nukes, boss-class pets and giant AOE heals/buffs. Those TFs just became easier because we "adjusted".
The crew I run with has, to my knowledge, never run an Apex that wasn't a one-pass Master run, and we speed it. Before incarnates. Yet the forums were alive with how awful hard the Battle Maiden fight was and how impossible it was to beat her under the timer. That ruckus did fade before I19. With I19 and the Alpha slot, it became a murmur. With I20+ I never hear anyone mention it any more.
People adjusted and we got more powerful. Combine them and stuff becomes easy and rote. -
Quote:Actually, they don't start getting toHit until they are +6. So it's really rare for players to see that. (The Magesterium is actually one of the only places that will happen by design.)Originally Posted by Rebel_Scum
You can still do that now, it's just harder because enemies start getting direct tohit buffs at +5 and higher, whereas before one of the patches mentioned (I forget which one off the top of my head) I believe they continued to only gain more accuracy, which is far less effective against high defense.
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Quote:That one would be news to me.Originally Posted by Hopeling
Moreover, wasn't enemy health reduced when ED went live, so that a 198% attack now would actually be proportionally stronger than it was then? Or is my memory playing tricks on me? I can't find any mention of it on paragonwiki, so it might be the latter. Hm.
The answer is: it depends. You could get more +defense back then, but critters were more likely to bypass it. If they weren't high rank and high level, though, you could get them below the 10% of base average damage that's our "floor" today with softcaps. And it was more likely for characters with high base DR to be able to cap that DR. So some characters were extremely survivable back then, comparable to or possibly exceeding what they can achieve now.
However, today, far more characters can achieve extremely high levels of survivability. We can all afford to run more toggles and use click powers more often without running out of endurance, both because we can slot more end reduction and recover end faster.
As far as damage dealing, I think we're better off today by far in terms of what our characters can actually emit. Yes, we can only slot about 1/2 the enhancement boost for damage in each attack, but we can get each attack back so much faster now, and use it for less endurance.
In terms of what we can deliver, pre-aggro cap, pre-target-cap and unlimited mob "stacking" meant AoEs could affect more targets at once, so total damage dealt was far higher for AoEs. Single-target damage? Characters today can't even see the pre-ED ones behind them any more. -
Quote:Yeah... no they aren't. I'm a fairly damn cynical person, and even I don't believe this.Originally Posted by Shubbie
99.999999999% of mmo players are selfish to the extreme
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Quote:STF - once upon a time we single-pulled AVs. Now we pull all four into a corner and fight them all at once. Some of them actually die to AoEs. We used to worry about the Flier respawning, and now it never has time.Originally Posted by JKCarrier
I still consider those things hard.
LRSF - once upon a time we single-pulled AVs. That was rare, though, because it was actually hard to pull off, so we would often dog-pile them. But we did this with specific subsets of Brute powersets tanking. Now we dogpile them with whatever is at hand, sometimes with no formal meatshield at all. Some of them actually die to AoEs.
Reichsman - We can do this whole TF in 15 minutes with whatever we decide to bring, +/- a minute or two. We often do it with no meatshield. We pull the AVs into a small room and some of them die to AoEs while we're still fighting Reichsman. The SF version is something of a hoot because of the nigh-infinite waves of Council who we get to mow down instead, but sadly most players I know hate the SF because of the slow, boring phase where we lead each AV to the main room one at a time.
Every 50 I have has soloed Trapdoor as a +2 EB. I never considered him "hard", though he takes planning and very active play. However, I do understand why he is hard for some characters. He's just not hard for any of mine. -
I do not think Tyrant's regen needed to be tweaked. It may not be where it needs to be simply because there is lower volume of testing on Beta than full live play, but in my opinion, they hit it close to the mark. If I went on a streak of 10 successes in a row last night (not an exaggeration), with the players and characters in attendance changing each run and the leader seemingly inviting all comers who met the requirements, it's not an insurmountable trial.
The zone-wide level shift is broken. The devs need to fix it.
- It does not always apply.
- As far as I could tell, it never lasted until the Lights of the Well were resummoned. It expires early.
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Quote:People where you play are apparently exceptionally stupid.Originally Posted by Shubbie
Whats really got me convinced this will change.
Is people starting full trials arent being specific enough or maybe people joining just dont care and enough are leaving after the 250 that the trial cant continue.
I declare them a poor reason to judge anything about content made by anyone. -
No single player leading other people around with misinformation has gotten anything changed here, ever. If anything changed when someone was doing that in an effort to get it changed, I am completely confident that was a coincidence - other more reasonable factors were involved in why it changed.
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So, tonight we've been on a tear. Six successes in a row. Not everyone has been +3, and not everyone has gotten out of the lightning by a long shot. Team composition has been all over the place.
The most important thing is just to get the Lights ASAP. We have not assigned teams to it, just given instructions to do it. Often it coincides decently with when you have to run away from the lightning anyway.
You pour on attacks and debuffs, pop Lore when he hits around 20% HP, and lay it on. as fast as you can. Buffs like Speed Boost and Accelerate Metabolism are very nice for keeping up the pressure and for moving in and out of lightning strikes fast. Rebirth and other healing are nice for keeping slow-moving folk from dying every time.
None of these things were asked for by the leader. (There was a stone tanker who was pretty cantankerous about getting SB, but...) On the 6th run I was sure we were going to fail, and we pulled it out somehow with literally less than a minute to go, with a huge fraction of the league seeming to get VRs. That rocked.
This is challenging but not impossible. We're doing this on day 2. I expect it to get much better, and then eventually decay in quality for pure pugs (led by inexperienced leaders), which is what has happened for pretty much all iTrials - even BAF.
Edit: Went on to succeed a 7th-10th time. (I rotated what I was bringing each time, as I was more interested in the completion badge than iXP, since I expect farms to be around for a good while.)
Edit2: These were all 20-24 person leagues. -
TW may be using the non-momentum activation times to calculate proc rates. I don't know if anyone has checked that.
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I'm not disagreeing, but ... I totally didn't notice this.
And yes, I play with game sounds on. I was wearing headphones and talking to someone on Skype most of the night, too. -
Quote:No other trial has had its iXP front-loaded quite this heavily. The only one that's comparable is Lambda, and notably, Lambda is the only other iTrial I've ever heard of being farmed for iXP. As far as I know, it took longer to come to pass, but it's important that its iXP reward is better distributed through more of the trial. (There's no reason you can't go on inside the labs and warehouse after you clear the road.)Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Apologists can say what they want: but with NO OTHER TRIAL have we seen trial "farms" within a few days of release. With no other trial! In fact I am not sure I have EVER seen someone wanting to "farm," say, Underground.
Context is important. You can't say "this was farmed faster than any other trial" and ignore that the conditions for no other trial were ever quite the same.
Note that, when BAF and Lambda came out, Lambda was the only way to unlock Interface and Destiny, so there are some parallels with the Magesterium being the only way to unlock Hybrid. And what did people who found Lambda hard do? They farmed the IDF for iXP and then ran BAFs for drops. Sound familiar? -
Quote:See, I don't think we know this. We're too new at it. We're doing a lot of stuff sub-optimally. When the people who are going to get it down pat do get it down pat, there will almost certainly be more room for new players, DCs, etc. (I don't know what a "bad" is. If it's a bad player whose excuse isn't that they're new ... I'm not sure I have a ton of pity for them.)Originally Posted by Shubbie
The problem seems to be if even a few people are new, dont follow direction dont do everything perfect it falls apart quickly and you cant finish.
You have no room for error, no room to carry bads, disconects, new players, etc.
This trial is not, by and large, like some of the others where what one person does can screw it up for everyone else. Dying does seem to heal Cole, so if there are a bunch of people getting dead a lot, that'll be a problem. One person could conceivably screw it up if they are die just enough to counter the team's DPS too much, but that seems like enough of an edge case that I'm not concerned.
If people have PCs or internet connections that can't allow them to move fast enough for the lightning, I have some pity for them, but not enough to ask the devs not to create challenges that require us to move. -
Quote:Really? Honest question, are these lowbies or maybe new folks who have oddly slotted characters? If not, I'm expressing genuine surprise, because these never seem like a big deal to me.Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
And, despite what Bill may say every time, I STILL find Cysts a pain in the rear, and they can and will utterly wipe a team if you're not careful. Good for him that he's never had that, but it DOES happen, and it has and it can suck when the screen gets filled with purple death. I have pics to prove it.
A long time ago, a Cyst definitely used to be a big deal, particularly because their explosion was hideously dangerous. But that was nerfed a long time ago. I can imagine them being scary mixed with certain things - having 3-4 Rikti Guardians all give the summoned fluffies Accelerate Metabolism or something could be ugly, but in general, folks I play with them roll over them. -
Quote:It's definitely not working that way, and for the life of me I could not figure out what affected it, which makes me think it's some sort of bug.Originally Posted by StratoNexus
If you are correct that not everyone in the league gets a level shift when a light out, this is an issue. If the level shift applies to the whole league when the lights are out, you can see how many level shifts you have by seeing how many lights are out.
I think the intent is the whole league gets the level shift when a light is out, but I will monitor this to see if it is indeed not functioning that way.
Even if it affects everyone, I think it needs a visual indicator. Until I heard someone mentioned that the con color of things was shifting after pillars were taken down, I had no idea it was happening. (I added it to my monitor, which I do leave open for other things.) You really want to use your best long-recharging debuff or attack powers when you're even-con with Tyrant, and there's no other good way to tell.
I should point out that I am not a fan of monitoring this on everyone for this one trial. Many of my characters have 10 attributes monitored already, and having to monitor level shifts, which are largely invariant, forces me to lose one at least temporarily. That's a pain. -
Well, folks like me are happy to follow you around and point out how hyperbolic you're being, so I'm not sure why you think it will actually sway anyone. It's when people do things like that and are met by silence or largely universal agreement that they sway people.
It's not impossible the devs will adjust the trial, but I don't think we have enough run time with it for them to be making that judgment yet (no pun intended). If people are still failing it a lot next Friday, I'll concede something may need looking at. Right now, I just think it's too new. -
Quote:I'm not sure how you can miss a large chunk of something you're required to defeat a specific quantity of and which can't defeat more of because they disappear when the threshold is met. You also cannot increase the iXP rewarded by the AVs.Originally Posted by Arkyaeon
As to farming it: I've seen up to 25% on the first phase atleast, maybe more if you are good. The average run yeilds like 22% normally. People that are getting sub 20% are missing a large chunck and doing it poorly
The only variable is how many bosses you defeat relative to minons and LTs, and I find it hard to believe anyone is cherry picking those targets given the AoE rich environment of leagues thick with +3s - if nothing else they are going to be laying out a lot of Judgements. -
Quote:This. When this happens, have everyone look at the LFG window specifically on the Incarnate Trial tab. Tell them to uncheck anything that's checked.Originally Posted by Justice_Bringer
All players have to make sure they don't have other trials checked. It's a recent problem.
I cannot be sure this is definitely fixing the problem, but every league so far that had issues starting that couldn't be explained by someone being non-50, non-VIP and lacking Destiny/Lore unlocks was fixed by this.
Notably, we only ran into this when folks were quitting prior trials mid-stream, usually because they were farming IDF then exiting. So it may relate to people being "tagged" as still in a trial, despite quitting the prior league.
Do bear in mind though that everyone has to have Lore and Destiny unlocked, in addition to the usual restrictions of 50 and VIP. -
Yeah, because that's such a clear indication of how this trial is a disaster. Nothing like that ever happens with other TFs or trials, right?
Give it up, dude. Personally, I don't believe your reasons for not liking the trial, but that's neither here nor there. You're allowed to dislike it. You disliking it does not equate to it being some kind of disaster by the devs. Stop acting like it is, and trying to cast people's normal shenanigans as though they're proof of it. -
Quote:Yes, it front-loads the damage.Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare
How does double hit work with DoT powers; does it front-load the bonus based on the powers' accumulated damage total?
Sadly, this has been a mystery to me for the PPM system from the get-go. I will leave it to others to hopefully answer this one.Quote:What about DoT rain/patch powers? Damage Auras? DoT pet powers like Creepers, Tornadoes, etc? -
Ditto on beta.
It's actually quite frustrating - I never had time to unlock Hybrid on beta, and now that I've done so on live, I'd like to copy my characters to some test environment to try building different ones to see what works best. And everything is kaput. -
Quote:Badly off-topic, but I recall it being an AR/Dev Blaster who largely mowed green critters on the streets and used Smoke Godnade to deal with everything serious.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I thought a fire tank was the first to 40.
But that's like saying I recall being told what someone said after a 100-pass telephone game. I'm passing on what my friend's second cousin's sister's dog's second account told me. -
Quote:Ew. I would bug that. Hell, I would PM that to rednames. Being in there should not result in that.Originally Posted by Bright
Heh. Two of us on one of our successful runs yesterday got THREADS, because we happened to have been killing the portal to get out of dreamspace when Tyrant went down. In spite of having been busting our respective ***** for the entire rest of the trial.
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Quote:That's your opinion. I think your opinion on how to handle this situation would suck the hydrogen out of deep space. You don't build one way to do something and make its most important reward front-loaded. That's idiotic. And yes, I'm baldly saying I think they were dumb for doing it this way.Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
In terms of what you or the next guy would have done to limit players ixp, that is the "exact" wrong way to look at this deal and when the devs do it, it turns stinky fast.
In an ideal world, you give multiple ways to achieve something like this. But in an unideal world, you don't also go out of your way to facilitate explicit farming. Running anything over and over for reward is arguably farming, but you don't build it so they intentionally abort it in the middle to maximize reward. -
Quote:I honestly can't tell what's up with the level shifts. I'm not sure if they're bugged so that they don't work all the time, or if it's just something we're not doing. I think you know that I'm never a fan of raid mechanics that are poorly explained, though you and I have different thresholds on "poorness" in that regard.Originally Posted by Snow Globe
I don't think you'd disagree that the level shifts should be zone/league wide and that the shifts should be noticeable, am I right?
But I agree that the level shifts should be noticeable without having to monitor your attributes (some visual effect). If they are not zone wide, there should be some indicator of where you have to be to get them. I tried all sorts of different things and sometimes I got a shift per pillar, and sometimes I got none. I don't know what controlled it or why, and that's not cool.
I actually didn't know that wasn't tested. They discussed that change long ago, so I thought it had long since made it to beta. Is that not the case?Quote:And none of this excuses pushing the -regen resist change live without testing (I just checked all the beta patch notes and it wasn't in any of them) to see if changing the -regen resist with the other changes was actually good for the trial.