TwoHeadedBoy
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:Wow, you are very good at completely not understanding a word that I said. Since when does scaling damage appropriately across builds and AT's equate to "not hurting" or even "not doing significant damage?" From where I'm sitting, losing half my HP from Nova Fist on a character with beyond softcapped defense to all positions and hardcapped resists is still a pretty friggin' significant amount of damage.Originally Posted by Dispari
So uh, what you're saying is it's not acceptable for any enemy to do more damage than a squishy's max HP, because that would actually do significant damage to a Tank. Really what you're saying is that nothing should be capable of actually hurting a Tank, because anything that could do that would be destroying non-Tank ATs which would be too close to dealing "fixed damage indiscriminately."
Also, something to keep in mind is that Tanks are just a prime example of some of the characters and builds to which I am referring. Heck, I don't even play tanks.
That's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but I disagree. Maybe my perspective will change when we get to (as someone said earlier, roughly) "Chug a Beer and be god" too, but from where I'm sitting, it sort of invalidates a lot of hard work people put into A.) Knowing their Archetype and B.) Building up their strengths for optimal performance. Why is it that a lacky is able to cut through the very foundation of player survivability, nonetheless against characters who are supposed to be Gods? It's one of the most self defeating concepts in the game.Quote:You're also saying that having just one scenario, or even one single power in a fight, completely invalidates the point of your entire character. I already went over how designing an entire encounter around untyped damage is stupid (Hamidon) but having one single power in an entire trial does not invalidate your build or AT.
That is such a load of crap. I'm sorry but you obviously haven't been paying attention to a single word I've said. Once again: Take any purple and PVP IO-shinied character, put it up against +4x8 Arachnos, and they sure as hell aren't going to be invincible... They're going to be facing a challenge, but a challenge that can be overcome with the right build and play strategies. There is nothing challenging and nothing that will make us better players when it comes to these insane Uber Powers. All anyone stands to learn from it is how to deal with that specific power so that they can grind it more efficiently in the future.Quote:Your character is basically invincible in all other content other than this one power that one guy does. You want to be able to ignore that too. What you're literally saying is you don't want Tanks to be able to be killed. By anything. -
Quote:You realize that we didn't lose anything, you just now have the potential for those 3 minutes of capped resists with proper slotting to be permanent? If by rooted more you mean rooted less, than sure. That perma 'godliness' now carries over to forms if you so choose to take them. Absolutely nothing was taken away from Peacebringers except for a costume-wrecking animation and some ungodly recharge times.Originally Posted by Irresponsible
It worked out for me quite well. Thanks. I wasn't interested in winning the argument against people who don't seem to know how to be polite whilst debating something. But I did get my point across to those inclined to hear it and found I wasn't alone in considering Peacebringers very survivable as is, just needing to do more damage in White Dwarf and maybe Nova.
That said, while I could be disappointed because we lost our 3 minutes of god-likednees or that we now get rooted more, etc., I instead choose to focus on the positives of having more resistance in Nova and better mezz protection and the other things we've gained like being able to do SF in the air, which I enjoy immensely. -
I wonder how/why first place and grand prize are awarding different amounts.
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Quote:Update: I noticed that Netflix was still working on my Wii, so the problem wasn't my internet connection. Turns out my Wireless adapter was just fried, so I hardwired my computer into my modem and I am back in teh action... False alarm.Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
I might not be able to make it tonight.
My internet at home has been down since last night, unless it decides to use an awaken before this evening I hope you guys have fun without me.
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Quote:I would explain that Warshades and Peacebringers are much more complex than any other AT in the game, and that it would probably require more monetary investment via the Invention System to get them to shine to their full potential (But I would say the second part to ANYONE about ANY character) but if they were willing to read guides and didn't mind adapting to the learning curb, Kheldians could do amazing things.Originally Posted by Leese
Little, hypothetical question for the thread.
A new player comes up to you. They're interested in buying access to Peacebringers and/or Warshades in the Store, and want to know if you think it's worth it.
Would you advise them to spend their money on unlocking Peacebringers and/or Warshades?
If this question were about Controllers, or Masterminds I would say yes, no question. Warshades and VEATs, I don't have enough experience on, but I wouldn't advise against it.
Peacebringers... I don't know. I wouldn't want to say "don't bother," I like my PB, but any answer I give would have to be heavily qualified. -
I might not be able to make it tonight. My internet at home has been down since last night, unless it decides to use an awaken before this evening I hope you guys have fun without me.
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Quote:Ice Shields were just a popular example of one of the many powers that can be used to increase player survivability. I didn't feel like giving a whole list every time I made the reference, but I do agree with you that there is no end all power or support class that is needed (or should be needed) to accomplish anything.Originally Posted by B_Nix
As of right now the trials are difficult to fail, at least BAF and Lambda and that's why people are doing them, to get guaranteed rewards. You bring up the example of having the need for ice shields and I will in no way sit around for a trial that is looking for a player with cold domination just as I won't hang around on a team that is looking for a specific AT or a "healer".
The thing is that the game has the potential of getting increasingly more difficulty without using the I Win button. I already pointed this out earlier, but even the most expensively built and well played character is going to have difficulty soloing +4x8 Arachnos. There is a difference between withstanding damage and ultimately overcoming a challenge and being resigned to the fact that something is "impossible" to counter.Quote:The game has gone through an evolution of getting harder (power nerfs, enhancement diversification) then getting easier (IOs, shortening of TF length). As Arcanaville pointed out the rules have been in place they just haven't been used. More people would get upset if the rest of the game (1-50) started using all the rules to win instead of using it as a way to make the game increasingly more difficult (however mauraders is pretty much trivial and same thing with the sequestering).
To me, players would be more likely to improve in skill and become more familiar with what they are capable of withstanding and achieving in addition to becoming more mindful of what a wide variety of team mates can bring to a table, but instead we are forced to resign ourselves to "That attack takes half your health," or "that attack leaves you with 1 HP," regardless of how well-planned your buffs are or how strategically you've built your character to not only withstand damage but perhaps also protect others (in the form of a support class- be it a tanker or buffer.) -
I've noticed this on several occasions notably during the Hero tip Miss Thystle's Plea and the Hero Morality Mission The Unusual Suspect but in other instances involving the Doppelganger enemy also... I have noticed it using my Tri-Form Peacebringer.
I could be wrong about what's causing this to happen, but it seems as if every time the Doppelganger attempts to shift forms, it is turning into a Longbow Enemy instead of a Dwarf or Nova. It is not an isolated incident, in fact it's been a regular occurrence.
Additionally on the morality mission mentioned, Doppelganger will shift into a Longbow agent, and during the dialogue at the end the picture displayed will be of that same Longbow agent rather than of my character. -
Oh, the nitpicky question? I didn't think that counted. I said "Haha, alright. Please point out where I said that the attacks shouldn't be powerful?" in response to " if you don't like taking damage,"
To me, saying that I don't like taking damage implied that I was being accused of insinuating that the attacks shouldn't be powerful, so I responded accordingly.
There, now the hardly relevant and extremely trivial question has been answered. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Tabcef
hey ya'll i just wanted to say
buff peacebringers they're still a joke
ok thanks
p.s. the new light form is great and all but the crash sucks and also more importantly everything else about peacebringers still sucks
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Quote:o.o You didn't ask a question.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Yes I did read it and this does not answer my question.
Quote:Originally Posted by Dispari
I think the point is that the intention of the power (or enemy or scenario) is to do enough damage that it would kill Tanks. Meaning it already does the appropriate amount of damage based on character survivability. If it's designed to kill or nearly kill Tanks, it will do the same to every other AT as well.
Unless your suggestion is that nothing should be able to kill (or nearly kill) Tanks. Ever. Because I'm curious: if no other enemies can kill you, and the biggest and strongest enemies in the game have to be limited in the damage they do so they can't actually kill you, why should enemies even bother doing damage at all? If enemies were never a threat we could just fight cardboard boxes.
And myself and many others are of the opinion that tanks are tanks and high survivability builds are highly survivable for a reason. The minute you start dealing a fixed amount of damage indiscriminately across everyone regardless of the strengths and weaknesses of their build or Archetype is the minute those things become totally irrelevant and the very fundamentals of having builds and archetypes in the first place is called into question.
There is a difference between facing challenging enemies that have difficult attacks which scale damage in a relative amount per character and having <super god guy> come along and indiscriminately knock everything down to 1 HP because the Dev's decided that making everything fair and equal to those who chose to play squishies (For the record, often times I am one of those people. My Blaster is one of my favorite characters to bring on Incarnate trials.) and couldn't afford high survivability builds was more important than the integrity of many of our characters and extended periods of invested time and influence to get those builds and characters to where we have them. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Irresponsible
I don't get angry with people online even when they are rude as that's just a waste of energy. My point was more that the numbers don't tell the whole story and most of the players I encounter who play warshades have a harder time of staying alive than the peacebringers I encounter or that I do when playing mine.
And I'll quote the response I gave the first time you said that:
Quote:Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Or maybe you're making generalizations about an entire archetype you've evidently never played based on your limited experience encountering people who were doing it wrong.
That would be like me saying "Blasters do less damage than defenders" because I was once teamed with a blaster on a trial account trying to figure out how brawl worked while the defender on our team was killing stuff.
Instead of bothering to respond to it again in the same fashion, just go back to the thread and see how that worked out for you the first time so we can stop talking about this. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Only after you point out where I accused you of saying that. I said you're complaining about the method of an effect the devs have lots of other methods of inducing. So complaining about the method is like asking to not get hit by green beams in Keyes. As if the devs couldn't, if they even cared enough to listen, make the beam purple instead.
Unresistable damage is a way for the devs to deal a level of damage that is a credible threat to ultra-high powered characters in a way that doesn't simultaneously generate impossible to survive levels of damage for everyone else. But those are the only two choices: you get hit hard and they get hit hard, or you get hit hard and then die instantly and you're eventually playing by yourself.
Did you read the post where I mentioned that it would encourage people to use things like barrier buffs and ice shields more strategically, instead of just being instant doom powers? This would allow for everyone to minimize the damage they took as much as possible while still playing to the strengths of their individual At/Powerset capabilities and keeping the way survivability in the rest of the game functions in tact.. And still posing a large threat. Sure beats "U got hit with teh Wrath" in my book. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Arcanaville
In other words, if you don't like taking damage, complaining about the mechanics instead of being honest about complaining about taking damage is completely worthless, unless you think the devs are too stupid to come up with another way to deal a lot of damage to you.
Haha, alright. Please point out where I said that the attacks shouldn't be powerful? I don't intend on any set, build, or otherwise to not ever sustain any damage. I just think the damage should be scaling appropriately based on individual character survivability rather than just destroying everything indiscriminately. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I call it "simplification." Because I know the rules, all of the rules, and what the devs do with unresistable damage I can do without unresistable damage.
In fact, there's no such thing as untyped damage. That damage is normally typed "Special" or "Unique." If I wanted to hit you really hard through your expensive resistances, I can:
1. Type the damage "Special" which you have no resistance for.
2. Type the damage Radiation which you have no resistance for.**
3. Type the damage Lethal but just make it unresistable.
4. Increase the attack to Scale 20 which will hit you really hard even at capped resistances, and everyone else it will one-shot.
5. Mez you and watch your toggles fall.
Take all of those options away, and I can keep coming up with more. The fact is there's no "rules" that say critters can't hit hard, that they cannot mez you with a higher mag of mez than you have protection, that damage cannot be typed with a type you don't have resistance to. What you seem to be saying is if you build something that is indestructible, the devs have to honor that and continue to allow you to be indestructible. That the critters cannot improve along with you, and become more lethal than you become resilient.
There are no such rules. If I'm the designer and I want to bring your multi-billion incarnate build to its knees, there are no rules that can stop me. All you can do is make it take increasingly more time to design. This is not a simulation. The mechanics are there to express intent. If my intent is to kill you, the mechanics of the game can't save you. If my intent is to hit you hard enough to threaten your life with high levels of damage, the mechanics of the game can't protect you. All you're doing is choosing the method of your injury, not the magnitude. Thinking that if the damage was resistable you'd get hit less hard misses the point. The devs don't give critters damage to give them damage. They give them damage to hurt you. They will continue to increase the level of damage until they hurt you as much as they intend to, no matter what your resistances are.
** Remember: I know the rules: there is such a thing as Radiation typed damage. At the moment, nothing fires it. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
So in other words, there are many methods that the dev's can use to completely negate the entire foundation of how we view Archetype survivability, and it's perfectly okay with you for them to use whatever means possible every time they feel like pressing the "I Win" button. -
I brought up the lack of dialogue thing in another thread, glad to see I'm not the only person bothered by it but it did make me feel better to read that the tech is newer than AE.
I'm right with the OP on a few of these, but I have some other minor gripes.
I designated Sunstorm as an NPC helper in one of my missions but was not allowed to name him "Sunstorm" because of copyright infringement? I also wish he was wearing the costume that he wore as a Peacebringer contact, but that's not a huge deal to me.
I also wanted to use Shadowstar, but she was not in the catalog. Her costume wasn't too hard to recreate (aside from the Kheldian Sash >:O)and I got to give her the correct name, but I couldn't make her a Warshade. i thought of making her a Black Dwarf, but I wasn't able to designate the Black Dwarf as an Arch Villain. I settled with my recreation of her costume, and making her a Dark/Dark corruptor, figuring I could customize her powers to be purple. Sadly, there was no option for power customization. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Venture
You have bigger problems.
It was the fifth, not the sixth... That was a typo. Or rather, a think-o. I confused what I meant with what I said. Y'know?
Anyways as an update, I rewrote a bit of my story to a point where the end bit is dispersed over speech bubbles. It took a lot of reworking but it's better than nothing I suppose. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar
Aren't you really limiting the focus of the discussion too much with that? Sure, in a perfect world, the two Kheldian types would be balanced on a razor's edge with eachother... but way before we get there they need to be closer to the ballpark of the rest of the ATs.
No it was just a specific point that I was referring to. I'm not saying it's the only thing that is allowed to be discussed.
I've built up a good amount of defense on my Warshade (and plan to do the same on my Peacebringer) through set bonuses. Having less than softcapped defenses still makes for amazing survivability when paired with hardcapped resists. My Warshade has outlived Stone Tanks and used them for Vengeance. He's done the same with an FA Brute... On a Fire Farm.
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Quote:The topic was the survivability of Peacebringers vs. Warshades. Both of their "stay alive forever" powers are resistance based.Originally Posted by Flux_Vector
Resist-centric survivability - especially without high, broad-spectrucm debuff resistance (-def, -rech, -end/recovery at least) - just isn't very impressive. A def softcapped character can handle much more in practice than a res-hardcapped character, other things being equal. And a def softcapped character with aid self and no mitigation out of their primary will survive circles around a res-hardcapped PB, even though the PB has better selfhealing, pulsar, and a dull pain type power.
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1. Warshades
2. Peaebringers
3. Blasters
4. Defenders (Debuffs)
5. Scrappers
I'm waiting to make a controller until i21 but I suspect that will be enjoyable for me also. I don't particularly like playing Dominators or Brutes, Masterminds have never appealed to me, and I've never found the "right" tank combination.
Stalkers are probably something I'll never even bother with, and I've never gotten past level 12 on a VEAT. Perhaps if the branching options came earlier I would be able to keep the motivation but it always just feels like I have to grind to 24 and that does not work for me. -
Quote:Is it not possible to reach 85% resistance to all damage but Psionics at all times with the new Light Form? I thought I mentioned the psi exception.Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
I don't think it's true now on Beta that Peacebringers have better survivability, either. They have steadier, more reliable performance you could say (since their buffs can remain the same), but Warshades can go higher than they can. Their superior mez capabilities also helps things.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Some sort of emergency issue... Official announcement here!
Ohh, I missed that one- Thanks.
Well guys, looks like the Ski Chalet's staying open for an extra week.
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I just got home, and am a little confused. I see a post in announcements saying "All servers but Triumph are up," but this thread and the server status page says all servers are down. I'm able to log in to my account in game, which never usually happens when the servers are down, but all the servers are showing up grey.
I thought this was supposed to be done hours ago. What's the deal? -
Quote:Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Fair enough. Your next stop is convincing the devs that first scattering objectives in a mission, then telling everyone where they are is logical. If it actually gets that far, I'm going to be questioning their design logic strongly, and I've already given you a preview of the argument I intend to make. If you think you have the winning hand there, you have no problem. I'm not the one to tell you not to try to get a suggestion implemented, but I will oppose it if it ever gets to the point of serious consideration.
Did you miss the part of my post where I pointed out that many newer arcs have already implemented my suggestion? I'm not asking for anything new to be added to the game, just that it be applied to more than just a few selected bits of newer content. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Except the people who do, of course.
You're right, I'm sure that all 10 of you disagree with me.