Some complaints...

Ok, this is going to be pretty harsh, so before I begin let me say up front that it is fantastic that folks can create missions, and that you offer so many options. I also understand some restrictions are in place to prevent farming.

That said, I have some complaints I want to share.

First, the idea that there is no dialog option. This is a big one in my opinion. It's difficult for me to understand why a system, whereby one would give certain responses and have certain outcomes based on that response.

Perhaps it's fear of language? If that is the case, it is very disappointing, but I suppose I would have to accept that. It's a real killer with respect to the system, as it makes the missions rather bland.

Note, if you can add dialog for descriptions and comments, I don't see the difference with interactive dialog.


Second, the lack of ability to place mobs. I remember someone telling me that this is a farming issue. With minions and lieutenants though? I could see this restriction for bosses, but why lower toons? I can't even place minions that I designate as bosses (to create single encounters)...obviously the rewards are low based on the difficulty status.


Third, the idea that you have to fill the map with trash, IE spawned mob groups, with no control over how many spawn. I don't have the ability to limit this, or just set them all to patrol. Instead I have groups of mobs standing around doing nothing, which really detracts from the storylines.


Fourth, the idea that every boss, no matter the difficulty level or status has to have a minion. This is ridiculous IMO. It seems that the concept of a single opponent is lost in this system. If you had to fill the area with trash mobs, why then have minions for bosses that are forced?

Note, I understand minions for a BOSS status mob. But not a minion or lieutenant that is placed as a boss so it can be a single encounter, as easy as that might be.


Fifth, the lack of ability to have other win scenarios when killing bosses other than actually killing them...like they stop fighting, or become unattackable at a certain health level. What if you want a Matrix sparring program kind of encounter? What if you want to have someone that fights until defeat is inevitable? Then they give up, making some kind of comment.

This is also where lack of dialog, if this option was added as a win scenario would be a bad thing...it would be great to defeat the mob and then strike up a conversation as an option.


Sixth, the lack of ability to create your own custom maps, even if it was just modular. Also, no ability to place things like environment barriers and the like. There are certainly lots of maps, but essentially you can only create smash and kill missions with the maps available, which tends to make the missions very hollow.

Where are the options that would allow you to create a bank robbery? How about vandals ransacking an office? People to save and talk to to get information on what to do next.



On a side note, I find it a bit amusing that creating bosses allows you to put together fun combination of abilities, but actual character creation does not allow this. A good example is a character that has dual swords but also has martial arts. It seems to me that if enemy mobs should be able to mix together interesting combinations we should be able to as well.


I may add more later as I discover them, but I have to say that they above items were VERY disappointing. I expected more options, more powerful tools to use when creating missions.

Thank you for your time.

There is an Empty enemy group you can set, actually. Use that enemy group and you'll solve problems 3 and 4. As to the rest, I'm sure it's just a matter of not wanting to dedicate the time to a system that exists almost purely as a farming tool.

I love the AE, and love making fun stories with it. But you have to admit, the AE community is small, with most people only seeing it as a way to get fast xp/drops. Just like PvP and Bases, it's a niche community that I'm sure the devs just don't feel they should put all their resources into, instead focusing on other, more popular things.

One thing to keep in mind. Two of the mechanics you mention: the dialog NPCs inside of missions as well as fights where the opponent stops fighting and you talk to them are both relatively new mechanics to the game as a whole. Neither of these existed in CoH at all, even the content designed by the developers themselves, until Going Rogue came out.

It is possible that these are things that may be added to Mission Architect at some point. I am reminded of the loading screen tip "You can't do that in Mission Architect...yet". At the same time, the popularity of the Mission Architect System as an actual storytelling tool is much smaller than I imagine they hoped for. The vast majority of those who have used AE have used it mainly for creating missions which could be easily farmed for maximum reward.

I created a few storyarcs myself, but lost interest because very few people actually play through real "stories" in the AE. Sad, but true. Wonderful tool, and very well implemented by the developers, but (ab)used very poorly by the player base.

Given the lack of interest in the system for its intended purpose, I don't know if they will devote a lot of resources to introducing new mechanics to the system. Yes, they have continued to add maps as well as NPC groups as they add them to the game, but that is much different than taking the time to code in mechanics.

Still, I know that the OCR team has been making an effort to breath some life back into the "Devs Choice" program, so it's not outside the realm of possibility if they see a change to how the system is used, and see an increased interest in using it as it was originally intended.

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Originally Posted by Frosty_Femme I said "ur" which is not a word. It's a sound dumb people make when you ask them to spell out "you are".

I wouldn't say that the AE is strictly useful for grinding. It's possible to tell some fantastic stories AND to manipulate objectives so that one can present a linear, easy to follow, story-based approach. Feel free to check out my PENGUIN (29205) and Hammer and Sickle of Paragon City (351727) for a couple of examples where I tried to make arcs that were focused on dedicated storytelling. Are they perfect? Not entirely, but are they GOOD? I should hope so.

You can use AE to make any sort of mission possible pre-GR. You can write the text for enemies, the dialog bosses say as you fight them, set up multiple objectives that provide clues that tell your story, and introduce allies that can even betray you within the same mission. These are really only some of the examples of what the AE is capable of.

For instance, to remedy your problem of no interactive dialog mid-mission, you could set up a mission that's entirely empty save for a few glowies. You place them throughout the map, have them provide clues/tell your story that way. If you wanted, you could even tie any other type of objective to any of the clues, in case you wanted to introduce action alongside story without simply filling a map full of enemies by default.

You can do much more with it than "Defeat Boss and all his minions."

First off, Hi! Welcome to the forums

Looking over your list I see you are passionate about creating an AE story and seem to be struggling with the tools. I suggest you join the global channel, "MA Arc Finder" next time you're in-game. It's the unofficial AE tips, tricks & teaming channel and is normally filled with seasoned AE authors who can help you find creative ways around the system.

Now, onto your points:

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Originally Posted by quickfire First, the idea that there is no [interactive] dialog option.

As mentioned earlier, interactive dialog is a very new system to the game as a whole. The AE interface was actually adapted from the game designers' mission tool at the time, way before interactive dialog was even thought possible. Interactive dialog is a common suggestion from the playerbase and would be a welcome addition.

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Second, the lack of ability to place mobs.

Did you notice how the spawn points in AE are the same as the ones in the regular game? Again, the developers didn't even have this tool, it's just how maps in this game work and it prevents abuse. You do get to choose Front Middle or Back (even though they're not always labeled correctly) so you do have some ability to place your mobs.

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Third, the idea that you have to fill the map with trash, IE spawned mob groups, with no control over how many spawn.

Not completely true. You can set the map to Empty and only spawn Patrols to control how many groups show up.

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Fourth, the idea that every boss, no matter the difficulty level or status has to have a minion.

Actually, you can spawn solo bosses.

Create a Custom Enemy Group with your Boss and appropriate minions & lts.
Set your Boss to Don't Auto Spawn.
When choosing Enemy Group under Boss Settings, on the Standard tab choose Same As Boss.

I'm pretty sure that's how I did it within my own arc. It's been a while...

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Fifth, the lack of ability to have other win scenarios when killing bosses other than actually killing them

Again, this is very new tech to the game and has not had time to trickle down to AE yet. Hopefully it will, eventually.

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Where are the options that would allow you to create a bank robbery? How about vandals ransacking an office? People to save and talk to to get information on what to do next.

These are all doable with the existing system. Maybe they aren't doable exactly as you want them to be, but all of these are very common missions in AE right now.

Again, I suggest you join the MA Arc Finder channel and take advantage of their experience in finding creative solutions to the perceived roadblocks your creativity is hitting in AE. Good luck and happy storytelling!

We need an issue where Dr. Aeon becomes enraged over the perversion of his creation and commissions Crey to destroy all the AE buildings and bury the technology in a deep deep bunker under Crey's Folly for possible future use by humans once they get over themselves.



hmmm



...runs to make AE arc about this.

I brought up the lack of dialogue thing in another thread, glad to see I'm not the only person bothered by it but it did make me feel better to read that the tech is newer than AE.

I'm right with the OP on a few of these, but I have some other minor gripes.

I designated Sunstorm as an NPC helper in one of my missions but was not allowed to name him "Sunstorm" because of copyright infringement? I also wish he was wearing the costume that he wore as a Peacebringer contact, but that's not a huge deal to me.

I also wanted to use Shadowstar, but she was not in the catalog. Her costume wasn't too hard to recreate (aside from the Kheldian Sash >:O)and I got to give her the correct name, but I couldn't make her a Warshade. i thought of making her a Black Dwarf, but I wasn't able to designate the Black Dwarf as an Arch Villain. I settled with my recreation of her costume, and making her a Dark/Dark corruptor, figuring I could customize her powers to be purple. Sadly, there was no option for power customization.

An AE bug in beta? Do tell if allowed? What's happening to AE?

While many improvements suggested here and elsewhere would be nice, they are in my opinion meaningless if the ratings system and search function are not addressed. Additionally, the ten's of thousands of abandoned, broken and test arcs need to be cleaned out of the system. These should be the issues we promote here and in beta.


WN

I appreciate all of the comments and the discussion, please keep them coming, even if they criticize my opinion. All are welcome.

That said, I must point out that I feel the mob placement, despite whatever sensible reasons for the random spawn may exist is one of the largest flaws of the system.

I can't even count the amount of times I have had to scour a map, once for almost a half hour trying to find the last two mobs. The map only displays the location of a final mob or item, so more than one mob or item left and you are playing treasure hunt.

This is extremely boring, and detracts from many otherwise fantastic missions.

We either need to have more spawn location control OR the map should display ALL mobs required for the quest. The latter would remove the problem and still allow random spawning.

You can add checkboxes by a list of objectives on the map screen to allow display of objectives on the map to be toggled on and off to avoid clutter. You could also simply limit the display to the last 5 or 6 mobs or items you have to find to avoid making it too easy, if that is a problem.

I would prefer to see a full list however, and think in lieu of removing random spawning it is the best and most prudent solution.

I have to add, and REALLY emphasize the need for putting ALL of the mobs on the mission map. At the very least the last 5 or 6 should show, but why not all of them.

Better yet, display threat level with colored arrowheads as well.