The_Demon_Hunter

Check to make sure the room you're trying to place it in can take more workshop items. That would be my first guess.

Nice guides Fulmens.

I have two FF toons, a FF/Psy defender (39) and a bots/FF MM (50), and on both my first priority is always to make sure the team is bubbled. I don't view it as being a buffbot so much as just doing my job. Like you said, why play a bubbler if you don't want to bubble people.

Dunno how much experience you have with the MM version of FF, but its a little weaker than trollers and is heavier on KB effects unfortunately. For example I skipped Repulsion Bomb as a result, as it does 1.11 KB instead of 0.67 like the defender version. I figure there's no sense spreading things out since the PvE game is all about AoEs, and also because the bots tend to ignore the "follow me" command at times and run off to get into trouble. On most good teams that one attack isn't missed much, as it lets the team use their AoEs with no worries of their targets being blown away from where they want them.

I especially like using the MM as fire support for zone invasions or mothership raids. Once we get to an area I view it as my job to provide that spot as safe refuge for the squishies and as a platform for attacks to be launched from. This holds true whether its the center of the mothership or in an open area in a zone with a red or green sky overhead. Keeping the team bubbled in those lagfests is exceedingly easy and allows the team to survive and even prosper in them.

Overall I agree with just about everything in your guides here. Nicely done.

AFAIK there is no way to set the "Defeat All" objective as a condition of another objective being completed first. If someone knows how to do it though, I'd love to see it so I could make a change to one of my mishes. >.>

I've got both a SG and a VG on Virtue that can offer full telepad access to all zones for red and blue until you're set up as well.

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You could always coalition with a larger group that has all the teleporters.

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This.

Seriously, don't waste the influence by converting to Prestige. You'll get a lot done all at once and then you'll realize just how much you could have done to outfit your toons. I really recommend just outfitting your toons with better stuff to generate Prestige faster.

What server is your SG on?

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You are apparently incorrect:

Tank taunt: Max target 5 Autohit Foe
+41s Taunt (mag 4) PvE only
+10.25s Taunt (mag 4) PvP only, Not auto-hit
Range -75% for 12s [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Unknown Null +1

Brute Taunt: Max targets 5 Autohit Foe
+41s Taunt (mag 4) PvE only
+10.25s Taunt (mag 4) PvP only, Not auto-hit
Range -75% for 12s [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Unknown Null +1

The two taunts are identical in every way.

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Have you used both a Tank and a Brute Taunt against ranged foes, monitoring the behavior of targets other than the primary in the AoE of Taunt?

I have. I am 99% positive that the Brute's Taunt only applies the range debuff to a single target-- the one that the recticle is over.

Just because the descriptions read the same doesn't mean that the coding is the same. Please, test this and actually check my results from gameplay, bacause from my in-game experience there are three tiers of "Taunts" available:

<ul type="square">[*]Confront/Scrapper-- single target taunt, single target-75% range[*]Taunt/Brute-- AoE taunt, single target -75% range[*]Taunt/Tank-- AoE taunt, AoE -75% range[/list]
The method is quite easy. Log in as a Brute, Taunt the Goldbricker spawns in Cap Au Diable, and watch as just ONE of the Goldbrickers runs towards you to shoot while all the others draw a weapon and fire.

Log in as a Tank, Taunt a group of Hellions/whatever, and watch as the entire spawn runs towards you to draw a gun and shoot.

Let me know if you get different results from actual gameplay...

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I have read for quite some time that taunt from brutes is supposed to only be single target, but I am fairly sure that it is not just single target. I never expected it to work as a single target thing, but I always get more than just one mob if I activate taunt in a circumstance similar to the one you described. I think the tank might pull more with his taunt, but there is certainly a degree of fallacy to an assessment that brute taunt is single target only.

To clarify, I am not speaking of getting in range of an aura picking up taunt, but simply of the distance taunt. On both a brute or tanker, it will pull more than a single target. To be honest, I am not sure how confront compares as I have never used the power on any scrapper of mine. Perhaps someone could chime in and say whether or not confront is truly single target?

Edit- I should also say that i always take taunt on both brutes and tanks and am quite familiar with how it works on both ATs.

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Confront for Scrappers is a ST taunt. Taunt for Tanks and Brutes are both AoE, but in my experience, JuliusSeizure is correct in stating that the brute version apparently only applies the range debuff to the actual target.

I can verify this from multiple runs herding up big groups in the Fab neighborhood where I've taunted a group and managed to get their attention, but only the actual target of the taunt closes in to attack at closer range. The remainder of the group stays at their previous position and fires the same attacks that the actual target had to move closer to fire. So yes, the -range portion of the Taunt for Brutes is apparently ST despite the Taunt being an AoE.

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so does no one have a base that's finished enough to submit for feature ?

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I had three or four bases I maintained that were complete enough to be shown off until a month or so ago. The Super Leader addition drama made me walk away from one SG to avoid headaches, and conflicts with the Super Leader of another during the "Don't Edit Your Base" period caused me to leave three others that were units of the same SG.

I'm in a rebuilding phase as a result. Another month or two and I might have 2 or 3 bases I feel are worth showing off again on Virtue.

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I think the gripe about having broken missions clogging the search results is valid.

My own mission is broken, and will remain listed but unplayable until I have a chance to to do a significant rewrite (as it used not just one but both of the maps that got yanked last patch). I'd prefer to pull it down until I can fix it, but the way the system works, there's no way to do that without killing the accumulated plays and ratings.

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I'm in this boat as well. I've had to redo multiple items in each of my 4 arcs (2 accounts) with each patch that came out, whether it was maps that were taken away or custom factions that were needed to be adjusted. I've had to make new custom units to replace ones that became unbalanced and nigh-unplayable by solo players or lowbies that weren't totally tricked out with IOs. And half the time that friends have tried to run my arcs, they wouldn't load.

Seriously, this fiasco got real old, real fast. If/when they ever figure out what they really want from this system and if it becomes a more stable platform for storytelling as a result, I'll go back in, line-by-line and figure it out yet again. I'm done redoing my arcs for now though.

Yes the gripe is valid, but I don't see it being resolved until the devs give us a stable platform to work on, which should have done from the start.

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Demon_Hunter: The tone you thought you heard was not the tone I intended, but the essence is accurate. There are cases where people in community A complain, a lot, about problems that are known and solved in community B. (one common complaint is "things are too expensive.")

So I was, in fact, a guy with a solution looking to see if there was a problem that I could apply it to. Apparently there isn't.

Demon_Hunter, Snow_Globe: I apologize for troubling you.

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Fulmens, if you sincerely didn't intend the tone I read into what you said, then I'll take you at your word on that, and I apologize. Given the way the members of the Market forums are viewed by non Market viewers though, you have to know your motives and comments might be at best viewed with skepticism though, once you decide to start talking about using the Market's ability to fix someone else's ills. I won't go into the number of issues base builders face, as others have outlined those already. Its not something as simple as "make more money and it all goes away though," as you may have thought. I'll take your word that you had good intentions on that.

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Or do I have no real audience here?

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This. The market can go play with itself.

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*sigh* I certainly would not go so far as Snow Globe chose to in this less than eloquent retort. I don't particularly like the Market, but I've had to accept that its a necessary evil to spend time there if I want to have things in this game that I need for my characters. As I said before, I've got a few hundred million inf on both sides. Its definitely not because it became fun for me to do it though. I do it because it's the only avenue to afford the things I wanted, unless I was lucky enough to get the drops myself.

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I really don't think that was his intention, Demon_Hunter.

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Eh, perhaps, perhaps not. As soon as he went into "I can make 'X' influence and can show you to do it too" mode I stopped taking his post at face value as a request for information on Prestige costs. It just seemed to reek of "I'm doing better than you and I'll show you why" *shrugs* For the record, I'm not anti-Market. Far from it. Hell, I've got a few hundred million on toons on boths sides on Virtue.

Once he started talking about using the market instead of bases, I viewed the post as being yet another example of a marketeer telling everyone else they're doing it wrong though, regardless of the fun factor for the people they're talking to (or in some cases talking down to, by the tone of the discussion).

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Fulmens, even though finding the infl for salvage can be an additional hurdle to a new base builder, I think generating prestige is still the biggest problem. In addition, not everyone has the time or interest in learning how to make millions of infl on the market. And even if they did, I'm not sure many more would convert infl to prestige--the current conversion rate is just so ridiculous it feels (to me, and I suspect to many others) like throwing infl down the drain.


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On these notes, we definitely agree.

I still stand by the idea though that instead of spending influence by converting it to Prestige, you're better off for the long-term by outfitting your toons and then being more efficient at generating Prestige via regular game play as a result, while also earning drops to sell or slot and more influence. Doesn't need to be a forum-approved FotM build to be successful either.

You realize of course that now we need to find this elusive solution, right? We're base builders. Making something out of nothing is what we do, as taught by Saint MacGyver himself, no?

Back to work!

Considering they still charge us for the types of rooms we're placing, which also limit the number and types of items that we place in them, this is a fairly unrealistic goal for any kind of base design. It would take a complete restructuring of the base design system.

I've been hung up trying to figure out what to use the actual canopy on top.... anything that thin (floor tiles, etc) generally isn't viewable from underneath

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Lemme try and summarize what I've learned and see if there's anything I can teach:

1) Existing bases already have more prestige than they need.
2) People with new bases are likely to be infl-poor as well.
3) If you're making infl by playing the game, you're better off making prestige by playing the game.
4) People value 100 million inf far more than 200K prestige.
5) (do I understand this one right?) The inf costs of crafting for a new base are signficant. What is "significant?" a million? Ten million? Fifty?

... So a small percentage of the population, coming in with new bases, would be the only people who would want to convert. And they'd want to make [say] 100 million for themselves before they were willing to make 100 million for the base.

You can do that in the market. KeepDistance made a billion (1000 million) in a month, starting from zero. I can make 50 million in a weekend, easily, if I start with 50 million in cash. It probably takes me a couple hours to get the first five million but after that it just multiplies.

EXAMPLE: I made 13 million on an Impervium Armor, level 40, Res/Rech just now. Bid filled overnight. Spent about 9.5 million, it sold for 25, minus 10% Wents fees = 22.5. You can check my work- I buy for numbers ending in 908.

What would be useful for people to know? How to get from 20 million to 200? How to get from 0 to 20 million? Or do I have no real audience here?

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Ah so here it is..... you're not here to learn about Prestige. You're here to extol the virtues of marketeering. You wish to enlighten the unwashed masses. *rolls eyes*

If you're really here to legitimately learn about bases, good for you, but considering your tone of "I can teach you to rake in billions!" I somehow don't see this as your purpose here.

Inf-&gt;Prestige swapping is a horribly broken ratio though, as some have pointed out. Removing drops from the equation, you're losing half of your Influence to get Prestige when in SG mode at level 50. I'd rather take that inf and make my toons more powerful by giving them better IOs and set bonuses so they can more easily complete tasks, which means they'll generate Prestige via regular game play at a faster rate.

You're better off putting your inf to work by upgrading your toons IMO so they can generate it more efficiently, especially if you can find like-minded people for your SG. Its not a quick fix, but it's for the long term. The long term fix is what should always be sought as it provides stability and continued, reliable advances.

I just started a new VG on Virtue a couple weeks ago, and I didn't use any of my toons' inf to buy Prestige. The ratio, as others have pointed out, is just insanely lopsided.

I mainly used two of my 50s, a dom and a MM, to roll up about 200K in Prestige the first weekend for the new group, which has a total of 6 toons as members, all mine. As I pointed out in this thread, its far better to use your 50s to generate Prestige by actually finding mishes they're suited for.

As others have also pointed out, new base costs have gone down a little in Prestige, but the inf costs have skyrocketed since they stopped "confusing us" by giving us base salvage to use. It gave marginal help to new builders with the new Prestige costs, but as pointed out by others, it mostly gave established bases more to play with.

My dom is a fire/psy and she's perma-dom. I'm a concept builder and made her before I ever knew that was "teh uber farmer" for red side or anything. I just wanted to make a Phoenix homage.

I'm also an RP'er and I break several of the "cardinal rules" of making fire control toons in her build, such as not having Hot Feet and I don't use my imps much in teams unless we're going to be stationary or we're overrun with an ambush, which is rare. She's also not a Superspeedster, using Hover to move everywhere in mishes, and Flies everywhere else. And as a patron I took Black Scorpion for Scorpion Shield instead of the usual "must have" of Ghost Widow to get Soul Drain or Dark Obliteration.

I usually use her to take point in ITF, LGTF, Rikti mishes, Freaks mishes, Arachnos, or anything else really. I just pick Rikti because I know they suit her abilities well and fighting in RWZ allows me to team with blue side friends if they're around.

Getting back on topic, you can run up vast amounts of Prestige if you put a little effort into it with any toon. I've used my bots/FF Mastermind to run up a bunch in various mishes. I just passed the 800K mark with my main brute for his VG. When I pulled my elec/elec blaster out of his last SG, he had run up over 400K I think. Same goes for the Mace/WP tank and storm/elec defender I had there as well. They're all concept toons as well.

Once you get to higher levels, Prestige comes easy. Just might need to stick with it a couple hours a week. It will add up in a big way. Again, good luck with your SG!

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someone please remind this dumb bunny why we have rent? I find it lacking purpose...

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It's a comic book superhero based game and since all the hero and villain groups in the comics have to pay rent on thier various lairs, bases, and whatnot, it would be silly to not have the heroes and villains in a comic based game also shelling out rent like thier comic book counterparts.

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Yes ! I remeber the time Kingpin was late on his rent and had to crash at the Green Goblins for a week and the Fantastic Four had there Fantasticar repoed. Not to mention Darth Vaders lapse of paying the Death Star electric bill causing a halt in going all Alderan on some planet. ;]

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Not to rain on your comedic parade, Optimus, but the Fantastic Four have had a history of financial issues that have led to them being removed from their headquarters in the Baxter Building and (I think) Four Freedoms Plaza, as well as having equipment auctioned to pay off debts. They're probably not a group you'd want to use as an example in this argument, facetious or not.

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Personally I welcome this entire idea as it allows me to finally bring my red side hero toons (yes, my dom and MM are heroes and RP'd as such) over to Paragon City where they really belong.

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Heh, some of us already do this -- via Mission Architect.

My MA Mastermind will never see Rogue Isles, except to train up skills; I intended to level him up entirely in the MA playing heroic missions.

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Well that's wonderful but it hasn't solved the idea of wanting to have your red side toons teamed with blue side toons outside the co-op zones. I've largely done the same for newer toons when applicable. This expansion conceivably does that for real though, which is why some have wanted it for a while.

I'd like to actually team with blue side friends while using my redsiders. Have my dom explore the Shadow Shard or run through a STF. Have my widow take on Nocturne in Faultline to get revenge for her kidnapping and brainwashing into service for Recluse. Let my MM's bots provide fire support for lowbies in Atlas during Rikti or Zombie invasions.

MA is nice, but it doesn't let you do the stuff that's uniquely blue side. That's why I'm looking forward to this.

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It's like player created arcs aren't worth as much as the games reg arcs ...

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Except they are. All you have to do is reset maps more often than you used to have to, and it's only necessary in extreme cases. You still get the flexibility of tickets and the reward rates from high-boss-density combat. The one thing AE arcs don't give you at all is chances at purples, and that was true from day one.

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And so someone proves the point that a ticket cap won't stop farmers. Farmers will just exit and rest when they hit the cap. Anyone who isn't farming gets hit by this instead if they're in an arc with larger maps and without the ability to stealth it.

The idea of capping tickets in this manner is counter to the idea of risk vs. reward for this reason.

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Just noticed they lowered the merits for recipes price from merit vendors. hmmmmmmm........ stuff cost less merits now. hmmmmmm

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Which?
All?
The patch notes say nothing of this.

Care to provide some samples?
Miracle(u), Decimation D/E and RegenTiss(u)...

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example: lotg +recharge is not 240 anymore, it's 200 merits.

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Um..... its been 200 merits for several months now. I know, as I've purchased 4 that way..

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Except for those of us who enjoyed seeing new fresh stories and enemies and who just enjoyed the tickets as what they were a bonus.

If I didn't enjoy playing the content I'd be wasting my time no matter how many rewards I earned.

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I enjoy lots of content in this game, but since tickets are the only drop you get in AE mishes, the tickets are an important part of the risk/reward deal Posi keeps preaching about. Has anyone ever gotten more than 2 pieces of rare salvage and a few recipes on a regular PvE mission?

I know I have, but that level of reward isn't possible now in AE, not matter how large the map or how many enemies you fight.

So much for risk vs. reward in AE.

Hmmmm.... good point. Perhaps they could include some kind of reference to them in some kind of tutorial or something. Maybe it could explain how crafting items works. Perhaps something you could do at level 10, when you're eligible to start a SG. They could teach it as a class at the universities!

Personally I welcome this entire idea as it allows me to finally bring my red side hero toons (yes, my dom and MM are heroes and RP'd as such) over to Paragon City where they really belong.

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Sorry about the orange text, mate. I'll stop using it, I guess.


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Thank you. Thank you. A thousand times, thank you, sir.

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As far as "just having to do the work" I have, believe me. I must be going about it wrong. I have a 48 dom that has never been out of vg mode, but has generated a little over 240k in the year he's existed. I play him a LOT. Since I didn't used to farm, and don't have limitless resources, I can usually only solo at +1. I'm sure it will all work itself out. thanks for the replies, but now that the MA doesn't work AT ALL, I find that my patience may actually just be gone. I've give four and a half years of effort here. Not asking for much. Ugh.

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My dom is possibly my most powerful toon and certainly my favorite redside "hero" toon, so YMMV here. I started a new VG yesterday with my 50 Dom. Just since yesterday I rolled up just over 52K in Prestige with her. I was running mishes solo against regular Rikti in AE (not Comm Officer farms, so I was seeing everything they had), set for Ruthless (level 4, same as Unyielding for you blue-side only types). Don't know how much actual play time that was, but I'd have to hazard a guess at somewhere around 4 or 5 hours total time spent in mishes since starting "The Shadows of Paragon" group yesterday.

It's possible to gain Prestige, Moloch. I'd suggest you find an enemy that you're best suited for and concentrate on mishes that feature them, whether AE or otherwise. I only chose Rikti because they're my starting point for every toon I have, going back to when I soloed my first scrapper from 40-50 via mishes in RWZ right after it was redone from RCS.

Good luck with your group, Moloch!