Tetsuko_NA
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Quote:(emphasis added)Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Forced to do what? Solo the ITF? No, I was not forced to attempt it. Forced to run trials in order to get my incarnate slots filled? Yes, if I wanted them done in a timely manner.
I'm not sure what kind of farming/content BeefCake was running with his dom. I've little doubt that he's far more efficient at it than I am.
I'd be curious to determine exactly how much real time it would take to get even T3*5 using soloable content as it stands right now with my warshade.
And that's just the difference between my experience and yours in this matter. I have never felt forced because I always felt seeking the rewards in the first place was my call.
Just a perception thing, I suppose.
That being said, of course, more options that appeal to more people is better. Fortunately, this game has a history of taking common MMO conventions and implementing them in better ways than most, so I'm still looking forward to what the Devs will do with the system. -
Quote:I'm not sure I'd use an example involving a substantial rule workaround, but I get your point.Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I once attempted to solo the ITF with my claws/sr scrapper. I got all the way to the last battle and found myself ripped apart by the auto-hit fluffy.
Now that I have a huge self heal, a tighter attack chain and massive fire DoT spewing out of those attacks, thanks to incarnate abilities, I'm betting that I can take that pesky fluffy out before it can kill me.
That's one example of many I can come up with.
My larger question is: were you forced to do this, or did you choose to do it?
(Yes, I have asked this sort of question on this topic before - I've heard a number of people saying the feel forced to do the Trials, while to me they have walys felt as voluntary as any other part of the game, so I'm just trying to get differing opinions.)
Thanks for the feedback! -
Quote:So, um... just play the stuff you enjoy?Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
So you find it necessary to belittle people that play differently from you?
I team, I solo and I have fun. I do not find the idea of having to run the same trials 30 times to advance is as attractive as playing exactly how I have fun now. If I want to solo an Ouroboros Positron for 40 merits - I do it. I may get some shards if on a 50. If I want to join or start an ITF - I do it and get some shards if on a 50.
I may run some Hero tips - and get some shards if on a 50. I may join that lower level team lfm - and get some shards if on a 50. However if I decide to try and progress after the Alpha - I have to do the trials or pay a PENALTY for playing regularly - If I havd saved 100 shards I got by playing Dev approved "content" - I pay a penalty?
Get rid of shards and make all drops threads - most of the problem is then solved, or make them directly convertable as many as you like with no penalty. Then I would not be farming the official farm content would I?
For those who say - everything is a farm - no I am not locked in to game progression by doing the same 3 missions. I can street hunt, mission arcs, tips, TF's, Raids, special events, Ex down, badge hunt, Guardian angel sewer teams and have fun with 7 years of content or be forced to play 2 months worth of content using your logic that the devs need more time.
No THEY painted themselves into the corner by not allowing progression using all of the previous content. You know, the content I enjoy?
Please correct me if I am wrong, but you enjoy playing the non-Incarnate content without Incarnate powers, yes?
Why change your playstyle?
I'm asking quite seriously - what are you progressing your character <i>towards</i> in doing these Trials? -
Quote:Originally Posted by LISAR
More like 30 minutes of awesome super powered fun.
C'mon, Lisar, if the game were fun to play, people would just play and not worry about the virtual rewards they get.
This game is work, you hear, work!
(*deep breath*)
The correct way to play this game, as anyone sane will tell you, is to grit your teeth and play the Trials that you don't like to get powers you don't need to play the parts of the game that you do like that we already have that you don't play because they don't give you the powers required for the new Trials that you don't play (*gasp*) because you don't like them!
Simple, really.
(Warning - the above post may contain sarcasm.) -
Clouded & EvilGeko:
Ok, fair enough.
Speaking for myself, I want Purple Sets for some of my characters, and playing the game for long enough for them to drop/getting enough H-V Merits/earning enough INF looks like it's going to take quite a while.
Fortunately, I enjoy playing the game, so it's not a problem for me.
(To forestall: I'm not saying the situations are analagous, nor am I putting down anyone who doesn't agree with my POV.)
I just wasn't entirely sure what was being said - I was under the impression that an argument other than "They're cool, I want them," was being made. That is, of course, a perfectly good argument in and of itself.
So, thanks! -
What solo or small-team-based content in this game is difficult enough at base level to require Incarnate Abilities? Or, indeed, even make Incarnate Abilities desirable?
I ask because I don't really follow:
If a player is enjoying playing the high-level solo content, why worry about the rate at which Incarnate Abilities are unlocked?
If a player finds high-end solo contant trivial to replay in gaining Incarnate Abilities, why believe it will become less trivial with these abilities?
In other words, if you're enjoyably handling all of the content you are interested in playing with your current powerset, why try to change that by seeking different abilities?
I truly do not understand this. -
Quote:Clearly.Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
^ Arguing with GG is like asking a hungry shark not to eat you. A waste of effort.
I apologise.
Done and done.Quote:Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
^ Can we get back on topic please? -
Quote:Meaning that either:Originally Posted by Golden Girl
That's one of the funniest things about these people falling overthemselves to try and serve Tyrant - from the moment CoV was released, there have been constant complaints by players having to serve a crazed dictator and his evil organizaiton - but from the moment GR came out, there have been constant complaints by players wanting to serve a crazed dictator and his evil organization
A) All of those people are far, far dumber than you, or...
B) You do not understand what they feel are reasonable motivations.
Gauge your own infallibility here. -
Quote:Sometimes, I'm honestly not certain if I am being unclear or if you are being disingenuous. Given that other people seem to get what I am saying, however...Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I haven't seen any of that mentioned in-game, or out of the game - and none of it would justify what Tyrant and his loyalist thugs do.
The fact that it's not explicitly spelled out in-game allows for moral ambiguity.
Ruling people as a dictator (Tyrant) in an attempt to save them from a worse dictator (Hamidon) may or may not be a heroic or moral act.
No, that's why he's a dictator. The two categories are not identical.Quote:Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Tyrant believe peole need ot be controlled, period - that's why he's a supervillain.
Oh? References, please - I was under the impression Primal Earth was opposing an invasion, not initiating one. it is my (possibly flawed) understanding that Primal forces are attacking Lambda and the B.A.F. not out of concern for Praetoria, but Primal Earth. And - stop me if I'm wrong - that's also what the villains are trying to do.Quote:Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Destrotying Tyrant's dictatorship is also the main focus of the Heroes of Primal Earth in the war against the loyalists - but we also fight the Praetorian Hamidon.
(I haven't done the Praetoria Zone Events, so the answers may lie there, of course.) -
Quote:Alrighty, once more, then.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
And none of them stand up - which is the whole point of GR - Tyrant and his loyalist thugs are the bad guys, and GR set that up very well - the devs took the vague hints from the original Maria and Tina arcs, and fleshed them out into a whole new world of evil.
They took a few bits of evil text said by Tyrant and his Praetors in the ogirinal arcs, and turned them into entire evil story arcs - people like Mother Mayhem and Chimera got turned up to 11, and went form being more generic villains into totally evil monsters, and the crime sof Tyrant, which were only vaguely inted at in the orignal arcs were fleshed out fully in GR, with several new layers of evil added to them.
The DE of Praetoria are vastly more powerful and widespread than the DE of Primal Earth.
It seems quite reasonable that they had/have access to a much larger pool of born psychics - quite possibly enough to beed up their own type of psiwar operative, one that could turn psi-sensitive minds to their side unless rigidly controlled by another force. I'm not aware that the sonic fence can stop Psi powers.
The Praetorian DE also might very well have access to something they have essentially none of on Primal Earth - magic. It is not hard to imagine that mystical incursion might be possible into an enclave of humans, if the negative emotions therein were of a sufficient strength. Using fear, hate and anger to power baleful spells is a well-worn magical trope. I don't think the sonic fences stop magical energies, do you? Keeping the populace calm and happy is, at this point, necessary.
Tyrant believes that the citizens of his city need to be controlled due to looking out over the endless fields of DE ruling over the areas in which humans were not controlled.
One could argue that this is not seen in cannon, because the resistance is not pursuing the DE agenda.
If a lynchpin of the DE agenda is removing Tyrant - and would you argue that it was not? - they are. -
Quote:I have made arguments for the admittedly despotic treatment of the people by Tyrant.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
There's no possible argument in favor of what Tyrant does to the people of Praetoria - Praetoria only needs the guy who can solo the Hamidon and the sonic fence - everything else is there only to keep Tyrant in power, which is clearly shown in the entire GR storyline - the DE don't feature as enemies at all - the entire efforts of the loyalists are aimed at "keeping the peace" and hunting down "traitors" and helping keep the Seers enslaved, and sending people to be tortured and murdered, and keeping the population docile, and hiding the truth about the dictatorship from them and generally helping to support the evil machine Tyrant has set up.
Everything's focused inwards on represisng the people, rather than focused outwards on defeating the DE - which is understandable, as the DE are the entire excuse for Tyrant to crush Praetoriain his iron fist the way he does.
That you choose to ignore these arguments does not mean they do not exist.
It simply means I (and many, many others, I suspect) stopped presenting them to you. -
Quote:Yep, this.Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
I'd like to see the Responsibility Loyalist arc become something more than a gigantic waste of time.
I have rarely been more disappointed than when any nuance or ambiguity was removed from Praetoria - when the plot team slapped GOOD GUY and BAD GUY labels on the sides, rather than letting the players have a moral choice between an (arguably) necessary despotic state and an (arguably) anarchic rebellion against that state.
It seems like there might be an attempt at an Author's Saving Throw with the 'Primals Shot First' business with Maelstrom, but as currently presented, there's no moral tension.
Which for me is a real pity, as it was the reason I was willing to tough it out through the at-times brutal Gold-side starting content. Without it, I've rerolled my Praetorian characters to be pure Red or Blue to save myself the trouble of a painful 1-20.
What a wasted opportunity. Of course, YMMV. -
Quote:Nah, he's the guy standing next to that guy, thinking "Wow, that's so cool! I wish I was brave enough to do that too!"Originally Posted by Casual_Player
You're the guy spamming "Say mah NAAAAAMMMME!" over and over again, aren't you? I was wondering who that was.
There's honest concern over an overly-homogenized message, and there's duckspeak. -
Quote:Perhaps.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
T4s are more like purple IO sets - a nice little bonus for people who want to dedicate time to getting them, but not really vital for any tasks in the game.
I does seem, however, that there is a qualitative difference in the way Very Rare IO's and Very Rare Incarnate Abilities are viewed, at least by a decent chunk of the playerbase.
The 'Very Rare' label on purple IO's is an explicit statement by the Devs that they are, well, just that - very rare indeed. As in: not widespread - as in: not all of your characters will possess them in numbers, if at all. Yet when approaching the Very Rare Incarnate abilities, the feeling seems to be - at least for some players - that if your character doesn't have a full set, they are somehow doing something wrong. I was just trying to determine if there was some basic reason behind that, beyond Gotta Catch 'Em All. -
Speaking strictly for myself, I find that the (so far easily-attainable) Incarnate T3's allow my characters to ploy through standard contact at a massive pace. So much so that I find myself wondering what I would want to apply the T4's to? Presuming, of course, I'm not interested in running the Incarnate Trials for fun.
Starting with the assumption that you're not interested in running the Incarnate Trials any more than is required to unlock the Incarnate abilities, what content are you looking to use the T4's on? Tip missions? The ITF?
I'm honestly confused here - please enlighten me. What non-Incarnate content are you looking to regularly run in which the difference between a full set of Incarnate T3's and T4's is noticeable?
Or, rather not 'noticeable' but 'worth more than doubling the amount of undesirable content I must do to achieve it'? -
Quote:Originally Posted by Diggis
That is NOT an exception to the rule. As shown in the Wiki quote above that is because the name of the bonuses are different. This is the way the rule works and apply to other situations, such as the one above where the 2 powers have the same value but a different name so they will stack.
Ah!
Thank you - and everyone - for the correction. I knew something like that was at work here, I got the mechanism wrong. -
Oddly enough (as I understand it), the Rule of Five only applies to completely identical bonuses.
The Set Bonus for 2 BoTZ is (as per Paragonwiki):
# Two enhancements increases Ranged Defense by 1.25%.
# Two enhancements increases Energy and Negative Energy Defense by 0.625%.
The Set Bonus for 3 Thunderstrike:
# Three enhancements increases Energy and Negative Energy Defense by 2.5%.
# Three enhancements increases Ranged Defense by 1.25%.
Although they both include increasing the Ranged DEF by the same amount, the overall Set Bonuses are not identical (differing amounts on the EN and NEG DEF) and therefore do not count against one another under the Rule of Five.
This, at least, is my understanding of the situation. -
Quote:Yes, the Respec Trials.Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Wow, it's been live for one day and people are already declaring it to be too hard and an example of bad design.
Reminds me very much of:
ITF
STF
LRSF
Kahn
Barracuda
Hamidon
Ship Raids
Apex
Tin Mage
Did I miss any?
I quite clearly remember the drama on the boards regarding how impossible these were to do, especially with a group of characters that needed the respec! Could not be done - utterly broken - terriblly cruel joke by the Devs.
When I first tried the Terra Volta Trial, I failed 4 straight, won one, and then failed 3 straight. I think this serves as proof positive that this Trial is far too hard and should be recalled as bad programming.
Right? -
"Do we really have to grind these same 2 zones over and over?"
No.
Play exactly as you were playing before, with the addition of hitting Lambda and the B.A.F. from time to time, when you feel like it.
You will advance much more quickly towards the new abilities than you have at any time previously in the game. -
A minor example that made my laugh myself sick - not once, but twice - is a bit of the Freakshow in-zone chatter:
"The fetishization of materialistic goods is disgusting."
"I think we should set stuff on fire next!"
What made me laugh the second time over was imagining it being spoken in the voices (respectively) of Jamie Hyneman and Adam Savage of Mythbusters...
Also Freaks:
"Weld a rocket to me right now!"
And in a mission description:
'He has pretty good penmanship for a guy with no hands.'
Good times. -
Another suggestion is to play around with color schemes and contrasting piece textures. Making almost any of the metallic/armor/mechanical bits a copper (mid orange)/brass (dark yellow) color scheme helps them look very Gaslampesque.
In addition, using bits and pieces of armor or mechanism on top of, or simply contrasting with, leather, clothing or uniform pieces can produce a feel like this quite well. Heroes (and major baddies) of this sort of story rarely wear fully-enclosed suits, however practical that might be in the setting. (Yes, ok, practical + steampunk = head asplode... I know.)
It is also worth noting that historically, Victorian society was all but obsessed with the Orient - both Near (Egypt) and Far (China, Japan).
That being said, there are few pieces that are specifically denoted as being Stampunk in style, but many that can be adapted. Take a look at the Valkyrie pieces, the Cyborg bits, and some the Resistance armor bits if you like things a little more gritty. And of course, the Steam Jets aura always helps... -
"Louis, I found your challenge to be overly verbose. When one challenges a Kzin, one need only scream and leap."
"You scream and you leap," replied Louis Wu. "Great."
(quote is approximate)
Says it all, really. -
Quote:Oh, c'mon.. 'Hopped on a transport and ended up home - ooo ooo lucky us!' - seriously?Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
I hate speedrun LGTFs. It isn't the speed-running per se (speed run ITFs are one of my favourite things in the game,) it's that letting the hostages die makes me sad. Especially when they've just given their little speeches about how happy they are to escape the Rikti and get home, and then they get led into an ambush and abandoned...sadness.
"We're the scantily-clad helpless Thermal Sisters! Rescue us, save us, take us back to your secret base, we'll be sooo greatful!"
These folks couldn't be more obvious if they had 'Nemesis Automaton, All Rights Reserved' embossed on a brass plate bolted to their forehead.
(Ok, pardon the snark, but this always struck me as just a bit fishy - and exactly the sort of thing the Prussian Prince would pull to make you feel like a dummy.) -
Quote:I hate to be so blunt, but your first car does not get slower because you bought a second, faster car. Having the first car feel slower is understandable, but is an illusion.Originally Posted by Auroxis
That's not my argument at all.
Sure you're more powerful with the level shift, but you're already powerful with the alpha slot and the level shift makes none level shifted characters feel weak in comparison which is not a good thing. I'm merely stating that the cons outweigh the pros.
My Incarnate characters feel much more powerful than my other characters, and I like this. One of the best parts about it is getting on to a 'lesser' character, feeling the difference, and thinking "Hmm, imagine what this will look like when I've gotten my Alpha..."
Speaking for myself, I have a Mace/Shield Brute who went from a wind-sucking weakling to a monsterous, giggle-inducing, enemy-destroying FORCE OF BLOODY NATURE with the application of a little bit of Alpha power. With most of my other Alpha characters, the change has felt evoloutionary, with him it was revoloutionary.
There are still things he feels a bit weak against, but most of those are city-threataning Superthreats, and so I can live with that. -
These animal parts...
THEY'RE GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREAT!
(Or am I not allowed to make that lame a joke...?)