be careful as Mids, whilst great might not be coded for the rule of 5 for EVERY combination of sets, whereas CoH might recognise it still and you have yourself a wasted set.
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Oddly enough (as I understand it), the Rule of Five only applies to completely identical bonuses.
The Set Bonus for 2 BoTZ is (as per Paragonwiki):
# Two enhancements increases Ranged Defense by 1.25%.
# Two enhancements increases Energy and Negative Energy Defense by 0.625%.
The Set Bonus for 3 Thunderstrike:
# Three enhancements increases Energy and Negative Energy Defense by 2.5%.
# Three enhancements increases Ranged Defense by 1.25%.
Although they both include increasing the Ranged DEF by the same amount, the overall Set Bonuses are not identical (differing amounts on the EN and NEG DEF) and therefore do not count against one another under the Rule of Five.
This, at least, is my understanding of the situation.
"Strength of numbers is the delight of the timid. The valiant in spirit glory in fighting alone."
- Mahatma Gandhi
Still CoHzy after all these years...
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This isn't quite true. The rule of five applies to the set bonus name, not how the set bonuses as organized within their set. In this instance, it might be because the BotZ is coded as "small ranged defense bonus," and the thunderstrike as "minor ranged defense bonus." They should probably have the same name, and therefore be subject to the rule of five. But it has nothing to do with the other bonuses in the set.
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Originally Posted by Tetsuko_NA
Oddly enough (as I understand it), the Rule of Five only applies to completely identical bonuses.
The Set Bonus for 2 BoTZ is (as per Paragonwiki): # Two enhancements increases Ranged Defense by 1.25%. # Two enhancements increases Energy and Negative Energy Defense by 0.625%. The Set Bonus for 3 Thunderstrike: # Three enhancements increases Energy and Negative Energy Defense by 2.5%. # Three enhancements increases Ranged Defense by 1.25%. Although they both include increasing the Ranged DEF by the same amount, the overall Set Bonuses are not identical (differing amounts on the EN and NEG DEF) and therefore do not count against one another under the Rule of Five. This, at least, is my understanding of the situation. |
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It is the NAME of the bonus that matters. Not the values. The Wiki and Mids shows the values, but not the name of the bonus and also shows them as seperate bonuses when they could be one. This was shown in the Info Screen but was removed and I'm not sure if it was replaced. It's possible, as Tetsuke said above, that the differing defence values makes the whole bonus different.
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Edit:|
Originally Posted by From the Wiki
The Law of Fives While a character can slot the same (full or partial) set multiple times in different powers, he cannot benefit from more than five copies of each named set bonus of the exact same attribute and amount. This is a stronger restriction than simply being limiting to five copies of each set. It means that if two different sets give the same size bonus to the same thing, the character can't get more than 5x that bonus even if he uses a mix of sets. Example: The Kinetic Combat set can give +1.5% Max Health and +3.3% Immobilization Resistance. The Mako's Bite set can give +1.5% Max Health and +2.75% Immobilization Resistance. If a character slots four partial sets of both, he will receive the full total of 24.2% Immobilization Resistance but only +7.5% Max Health because he cannot get more than five Max Health bonuses of exactly +1.5%. Castle further elaborated on the rule of five in I13 Closed Beta saying that the exclusion of more than five of the same bonuses is based on the name of the bonus and not its value. For example, a character can benefit from up to five global benefits of Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Recharge Speed, which gives a global +7.5% bonus to Recharge Rate, as well as up to five set bonuses of +7.5% Recharge. That's because the first bonus is named "Luck of the Gambler: Recharge Speed" while the second is "Huge Recharge Bonus". One can find the names of the bonuses listed in the Combat Attributes window. |
Beaten to it Aett.. Maybe Mids and the Wiki need to show the Name as well, although that would be a huge job!
The only exception i know of the rule of the 5 is the 7.5% global recharge.
as lofg 7.5% can be slotted 5 times, + 5more times 7.5 from other sets.
Some ppl could say its not an exception of the rule of the 5 since lofg7.5 is in a set of 5, different then the other 7.5%...
im willing to do a snow ball fight over that (even tho i dont care), :P
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That is NOT an exception to the rule. As shown in the Wiki quote above that is because the name of the bonuses are different. This is the way the rule works and apply to other situations, such as the one above where the 2 powers have the same value but a different name so they will stack.
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Originally Posted by xeaon
The only exception i know of the rule of the 5 is the 7.5% global recharge.
as lofg 7.5% can be slotted 5 times, + 5more times 7.5 from other sets. Some ppl could say its not an exception of the rule of the 5 since lofg7.5 is in a set of 5, different then the other 7.5%... im willing to do a snow ball fight over that (even tho i dont care), :P |
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Originally Posted by Diggis
That is NOT an exception to the rule. As shown in the Wiki quote above that is because the name of the bonuses are different. This is the way the rule works and apply to other situations, such as the one above where the 2 powers have the same value but a different name so they will stack.
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Ah!
Thank you - and everyone - for the correction. I knew something like that was at work here, I got the mechanism wrong.
"Strength of numbers is the delight of the timid. The valiant in spirit glory in fighting alone."
- Mahatma Gandhi
Still CoHzy after all these years...
Quote:
Yeah, it's a bit hard to judge from the Wiki and Mids as they only show the values (that I could find) not the name, which the rule of 5 applies to.
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Originally Posted by Tetsuko_NA
Ah!
Thank you - and everyone - for the correction. I knew something like that was at work here, I got the mechanism wrong. |
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Fortunately, there's not that many bonuses where the actual displayed bonus text and the hidden name are different. LOTG +Rech is the only thing I can think of.|
Originally Posted by Diggis
Yeah, it's a bit hard to judge from the Wiki and Mids as they only show the values (that I could find) not the name, which the rule of 5 applies to.
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From what I've seen, basically only two things you need to ask:
- Type of Bonus: Is the type of Bonus the same? A "Global" bonus from a single specific IO Recipe. A "Regular" bonus gained from a certain number of IO Recipes from a specific set slotted into one power.
- Exact Values of the Bonus: Are the values of the bonuses EXACTLY the same?
I did the same thing when I first started planning sets. I thought you could only have 5 of the same category of bonuses (such as "Ranged Defense") regardless of the value.
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I think adding the name to every set is probably not worth the effort. However, the wiki does have an explanation of how defense buffs are named which should help clarify it for the curious:|
Originally Posted by Diggis
Yeah, it's a bit hard to judge from the Wiki and Mids as they only show the values (that I could find) not the name, which the rule of 5 applies to.
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http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Invent...efense_Bonuses
EDIT: The other odd one is movement speed increases. Different sets have it implemented differently. Some sets have the "Movement Speed" set bonus while others apply three different set bonuses "Run Speed", "Flying Speed" and "Jumping Speed". Since they are different names you can stack them but conversly you cannot stack a set bonus using the second implementation with a set bonus form a set that buffs a single movement type.
Example:
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Thunderstrike
versus
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Siphon_Insight
versus
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Stagger
I think the wiki has the correct usage on the individual pages although the summary page uses "+Movement Speed" for both types.
I think Mid's is telling me there's a loophole in the Rule of Five, and I'd like to confirm before burning a Respec.
I already have five 1.25% bonuses to my ranged defense. I have three Thunderstrike sets that each give me 2.5% in NRG/Neg defense, when means half of that (or 1.25%) in ranged defense. I also have two Zephyr sets that each give me 1.25% in Ranged.
I thought I'd add another Zephyr set, but I didn't think I'd get the 1.25% Ranged def bonus since I had five anyway. But I plugged it into Mid's and it worked... I got it.
Now, I do understand that dropping a couple Defense IO's on Combat Jumping for my defender might be a better path than a third Zephyr (because the def would be universal), but I was curious about the apparent exception to the Rule of Five -- namely that if the defensive bonus comes as a complement to a damage type defense (NRG/Neg for Ranged, S/L for Melee, Fire/Cold for AoE), then the complementary bonus doesn't count toward your five. Does anyone have any experience with this?
Thanks.