T_Immortalus

There are other games that offer quicker and better PVP without PVE getting in the way.
You're here because you like this game, most of it.

You're just fooling yourself if you think you're here for "only the pvp".
No offense intended.

I proved how it is supposed to work by CITING THE POWER!

Fire mastery.Rise of the Phoenix:
Is it "not intended to leave you invulnerable for a short time"?
Then the power is wrong as stated in the description and thus the power description is bugged and needs to be changed.

Either the delay needs to be removed or the power description needs changing and untouchable needs to likely be removed completely from the power.





Either I am right or the power is just as bugged but in a different way.

You are completely wrong Ironblade because you say:
And I proved that:
The delay is not intended to allow a player to die before untouchable finishes, therefore the power is bugged.



Edn of story.
There is no argument anymore.

The only thing left for you is to accept the truth or try to think of something even more crazy to try and "not be wrong" because you obviously can't take being wrong even when it is proven without a shadow of a doubt for anybody else.
Haven't you noticed? You're the only one arguing that it is "intentionally lettign players die before untouchable". That is why I have responded to you, to help you see the truth, rather than let you continue to be misinformed.

I quit. You want to be misinformed like it's some similar thing to Stockholm Syndrome. You love being wrong, or something, for some twisted reason.
Have fun with your "resurrec-dead" power untilt he people who made it fix it.

There you go. That explains the issue for Lusca.
Maybe the original poster wasn't close enough for the badge.


Also, it is good to know that those badges work that way, partially. It sucks if somebody is not in range, but it makes it less of a worry about team size and contribution.

Yes, they still take the servers down on Tuesday, probably because it is after a weekend of likely more busy servers that need to be refreshed(like giving a computer a break after you have used it heavily which clears RAM, a cold boot), most often.

Also, yes Tuesdays tend to be patch days. My point was that "if they take the servers down on Thursday, it is almost always for a patch, rarely ever just maintenance".


I did not exclude anything you said.

Ironblade, does my text look like an SAT word puzzle to you? You seem to be missing what I think is obvious a lot lately. Are you not the old Ironblade that used to understand things?

If that is not enough proof for you of the intended purpose of the power then you can argue with yourself.

Obviously, Rise of the Phoenix, in the pool version quoted above, is intended to "both resurrect and leave you invulnerable for a short time" instead of killing you within the first 0.25 seconds before you may have even finished raising your finger off the button that activated it.
It is definitely not working as intended when the power clearly does not work at the "minimum stated functionality" in every situation.





I'm not "assuming" squat. It's clear to read in the power description and detailed info what the intended behavior of the power is.
The fact that it "leaves you dead" in certain situations instead of "leaving you invulnerable for a short time" is clearly "not working as intended".

I'm through with you Ironblade. I thought you would at least consider the other side of an argument, but you must be having an off-week.


Edit:
FYI, I talked about inspirations in another post. They were clearly "not meant to leave you invulnerable for a short time or able to activate powers" so they don't seem to be for in combat use.
Resurrect powers clearly state "leaves you invulnerable for a short time", unlike inspirations.

Now look for an argument that unicorns and gremlins are the reason the delay is intended. It will work just as well as your most recent post.
Bye.

Low single target, but high AoE for bots.

They're not that popular, especially with the games(I think all of them) being F2P now.

You may be better off just getting a prepaid Visa or similar card and using that to in lieu of time cards and credit cards.

The tentacles are not tracked for badge credit. It's 10% of the head's total damage received.

I have never known Lusca to be an "in the area" badge because I had never even heard of that mechanic until it was used for the Lord Nemesis GM.
If it had been used for Lusca then it would also be used for the Deadly Apocalypse banners and GM, but I know it did not work for that last Halloween.

What does wiki say?
That's interesting.
Has this been confirmed by the developers or anybody with firsthand experience of leeching around Lusca? Wiki has no citation to prove what it says is true.

Ok then.
I still suggest going over your defeat badges with a fine-toothed comb.

Also if you were in a league, the credit is still only tracked per team so each team needs to do at least 10% of the total damage done to the Gm to get the badge.
That sucks when you're the "odd man out" put on the second team alone on a league(unless you can cover 10% of the damage on your own, which I have surprisingly at least a few times).

I remember hover/blasting that mob with my Fortunata. That is my only character that could ever do that, and it was GLORIOUS!

Wal Mart. They have everything.
Used to be available at Sears.

WHOA!
Cram those words down my throat will you?

I never said it was "useless".
I used hyperbole to play "devil's advocate".

"If this power was intentionally not ensuring 15 seconds of survival then it may as well not be a resurrect because it would guarantee death in some situations."



It's not useless by a long shot, just severely broken in certain situations due to that delay.

/facepalm
I will hide in my corner of shame. (what is the blushing emoticon?)
I should have checked that again.


I do know how resurrects are supposed to work though, especially with the wording each of them has.
They're not supposed to let you die before the 15 seconds of "untouchable" are done.
The fact that some allow you to die before that "untouchable" applies, in certain situations, is not intended, especially when evidence shows some people seeing "untouchable" on the buffs while they're dead which means it shouldn't apply.

I wonder if such an occasion makes it impossible for other players to hit you with an ally resurrect if you are stuck untouchable after death in this manner? "Add insult to injury? Yes please!"

Oh, true.

I have an idea for why Lusca didn't award a badge also:

Maybe there was a player trying to solo Lusca, at least just to see if they could survive the entire onslaught of the tentacles and head. They could have done enough damage over time, without killing it, to ensure that your team could not get the badge.

Consider it similar to the "RWZ challenge", maybe even tougher. That is the appeal for such a thing.

1) See this thread for where I get the "untouchable makes you unable to affect others" idea: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...33#post4174833
It's not my fault the developers have not been clear with powers.

2) A resurrect is meant to "bring a character back to life", specifically with an animation that makes it look like "they have divine protection"(in the case of Rise of the Phoenix and some others), and allow them to survive at least until it recharges so long as they are able to.
The untouchable period, which lasts 15 seconds that is much longer than the resurrect needs to animate and finish applying the effects it does, is meant to give players that time "to try to survive".

Therefore, the facts of the power show that players are intended to survive for a minimum of 15 seconds from clicking the resurrect power, at which point they either die immediately or have done enough to have a chance at survival.



So, who really doesn't know the purpose of a resurrect?
They're not Radiation Emission.Fallout but self-targeted are they?
They're not Self Destruct from the old cyborg booster are they?

Resurrects are meant to bring back to life, not suicide for more debt or they would not resurrect and heal or anything besides damage and debuff.

Fire Mastery.Rise of the Phoenix(definitely pool version):
"You will revive with about half of your Hit Points and Endurance. Rise of the Phoenix will actually leave you invulnerable for a brief time"
FAILURE!
(Where is that picture of Lex Luthor screaming "WRONG!" in Superman Returns when you need it?)

Impression of the Mad Money guy in Iron Man: "That's a RESURRECT that doesn't RESURRECT!"


Why the hell does it say "leave you invulnerable" when that doesn't even happen sometimes?
FAILURE!






Also, I just looked another power up.
Would all of you agree that power choices, that take up a slot, are likely supposed to be more powerful than temporary powers?

The Winter Event power "Renewal of Light" also has the 0.25 second delay before untouchable takes effect. I just confirmed this in game.
Other than that, the power does identical damage to Rise of the Phoenix with slightly different secondaries, specifically slows instead of stun.

Renewal of Light:
Now, how are slows supposed to help you when you're dead because enemies were not stunned and you are not untouchable for 0.25 seconds and you can't activate any powers for that 0.25 seconds because you are stuck in the resurrect animation?


You are stuck in the resurrect animation, unable to activate ANY powers, during the 0.25 second delay of these resurrect powers.

Either they should change the power wording and numbers to say and completely guarantee:
....though the damage won't likely be enough to get "vengeance" on your enemies.
Also, that sounds like a very bad thing to encourage in this time after 9/11. It's not a superhero trait in the minds of sane people, nor a supervillain trait as they would never "sacrifice themselves" especially if they were dead "permanently" anyway.



Let me put it another way....

YOU'RE GOING TO THE HOSPITAL WHETHER YOU TRY TO RESURRECT OR NOT!

That is the problem with the "delay is intentional" arguments. They're stupid if you even remotely acknowledge the fact that the power is called "resurrect" and is intended to "close the hospital button in favor of getting up and fighting again".






Just for future reference....Fiery Aura.Rise of the Phoenix:
OH LOOK! AN INFERIORITY IN THE POOL VERSION!!

Look at the "xp debt protection" time: 20 seconds for the pool version and 90 seconds for the power set version.

Well, I guess that screws the assumption that the delay is the way they make it inferior because it actually has a different way of being inferior.




Edit:
Again, the delay is an oversight form when all resurrects had a delay.
If I could quickly find the patch notes that prove this, and/or historical data on power information if it even is kept, I would prove it.

They just "forgot" to fix the "non-power-set" resurrects like they did the power set ones.

Well phase is listed as untouchable int he powers, usually in addition to "only affect self" but not always such as Dimension Shift(which apparently will not allow a player to sit inside the phased field using Force Bubble to keep enemies outside and just pelt them with ranged attacks from complete safety as I thought in this thread http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...33#post4174833 So, take it up with the developers if that thread is true or not.)



Also, I better explained my position on Rise of the Phoenix in the other thread about this in the more appropriate section of the forums for this: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=290727

All I know is I see a downtime on Tuesday, the same day as when the Weekly Strike Target is switched and the market sales and other data is updated/switched, a LOT more often than any Thursday downtime.

Take that at face value, but I think it will be proven correct tomorrow and in the coming weeks(since one day is not proof or yesterday would have been).



Hmm, I wonder if the patch and addition dates on the wiki for new content can be plugged into some system online to tell us what day of the week they were?
That would tell us which day is usually patch day, probably.

Ironblade's opinion is based on THE assumption THAT "pool powers are intentionally inferior to the same named power in a power set".

I proved that wrong in my above post as well as I have always been using logic to prove that the power "does not work as intended in specific situations" because "it was not balanced around or intended for those specific situations simply because those situations did not exist to be considered in balancing around".



So, there was only one logical point of view as the other was based on the assumption that "the devs intended, and still intend despite the problem situations, for the delay" citing "the fact that pool powers are inferior" which is proven false, thus the whole assumption was false at the very least.



Edit:
I have proven my case with evidence.
Though, the only way to prove it to most people(who can choose to ignore logic and evidence) is if the developers were to admit to a mistake with the pool version of Rise of the Phoenix by either patching the delay out or posting here saying "the delay is not intended to allow players to die before the untouchable period, as untouchable is intended to keep players alive"(which is an assumption provable by the fact of how untouchable works and how it is intentioned in this and other powers).

1) That vulnerability time is not the intention if it even works exactly as you say it does because of this phrase you say:
A) You can't know that it will be a "not-instantly-deadly amount of attention" unless it's clearly not enough danger to make the power "risky".
B) Most situations in the game, aside from really new "incarnate only" content which are the only extremely likely places, do not push that boundary even if you are pushing the difficulty to the max(which is not meant to be soloed anyway).

The situations where it would be risky are not what that power is designed around because all powers were designed around SO performance against lower difficulties that people can rush into with IOs and incarnate powers and now expect to survive in.
(Edit: Any situation where the character is not intentionally committing suicide is a situation that would not be a risk of "resurrec-dead" with Rise of the Phoenix in the situations Rise of the Phoenix was balanced around. It is only a risk once suicidal situations become less suicidal under full buffs due to IOs and incarnate powers which rise of the Phoenix was not adjusted for and is still not balanced for so needs to be rebalanced or is bugged.)
Is it "not inferior by design" but "inferior by new added situations" which it was not balanced around or even anticipated.


2) the above is only true if the 0.25 second delay is even "as intended now" even if it was "intended before" when resurrects were first given the untouchable period(which they did not have years ago as far as I remember).
It was a delay they removed from most resurrect powers, but "forgot" to remove from the pool version of Rise of the Phoenix.


3) Some pool powers are of equal or greater power than their Power Set identically named powers, especially on different archetypes, while most are the same power.

A) Rise of the Phoenix = identical to Tanker version except 0.25 second delay on untouchable(nothing else delayed and less health due to Controller lower base health, which is the real "inferiority" of the power)

B) Temp Invulnerability = identical for Tanker Willpower and Controller Primal Forces Mastery pool, except endurance cost(not effectiveness)
B2) Tenp Invulnerability = weaker on a Brute or Scrapper than the controller Primal Forces Mastery pool version, but still lower endurance cost

C) Mind Over Body = MORE POWERFUL in Controller Psionic Mastery than Tanker Willpower version, bit higher endurance cost
C2) Mind Over Body = MUCH GREATER POWER in Controller Psionic Mastery than Brute/Scrapper/Stalker Willpower version

As you can obviously see especially if you check the powers in game, the pool power versions are often SUPERIOR to the power set versions of the same power.
I surmise this is because the archetypes that get the pool versions do not get all the other tools in the power set that the other version belongs to, meaning they are at a natural disadvantage which allows them to be more powerful without being unbalanced.




Now, have we cleared up the fact that "pool power versions are not intentionally inferior"?
Yes, they are inferior due to not having the rest of the power set to combine with the pool power version as well as sometimes because of archetype base values(like Tanker hp vs Controller hp), but they are rarely inferior when the powers are compared directly, even with archetype modifiers being different.

The 0.25 second delay between resurrect and untouchable application of Rise of the Phoenix is not intentional.
If anything, Tankers and Brutes and Scrappers with their higher health, more defenses and more damage should have the delay while the pool version has the delay removed becuase of the natural disadvantage of the pool version.








Also, I am 99% sure that ALL RESURRECTS had the delay between resurrect and untouchable, at one point.
This may have been for any number of reasons, most likely so that they could affect enemies, to damage and stun, during the 0.25 seconds before becoming "phased" by untouchable such that they could "only affect self"(because phase tends to work that way such as in Dimension Shift, as explained to me).
They figured out a way to make the powers affect enemies even while phased(like the invisible pseudo-pet that Rise of the Phoenix summons), which allowed them to remove the delay on the powers, but they were most concerned with the most used and obvious versions of the powers(the ones in primary/secondary power sets) so they forgot one or two(or all; I haven't checked all pool resurrects if there even are others than Rise of the Phoenix) of the pool versions.



So, it is an oversight, a mistake, that the ancillary pool version of Rise of the Phoenix has the delay before applying untouchable simply by examining the numbers and the typical relation of pool powers to their power set namesakes.

I don't even need to go into the fact that the delay absolutely destroys(in certain situations) the intended purpose of the untouchable application within the power to prove that the delay is "not intended", but that is a much simpler and more obvious argument than comparing other powers which is why I used that argument first.

(delay = situationally broken power) = bug
(Fire Mastery.Rise of the Phoenix !>= Fiery Aura.Rise of the Phoenix)* = bug


*The comparison symbols mean "not greater than or equal to".

Some of them do change future events within that mission. I remember a few cases in Praetoria:
1) There is a mission to disarm explosives with an optional objective to disarm 30 additional ones int he same mission. Skipping the main target until all the optional ones are done will prevent a timer from counting down that you have to run out of the mission before it ends.
2) There is a tough Elite Boss fight in one of the moral choice missions. You have the option of calling off PPD reinforcements to make the fight more difficult. Not completing that optional objective gives you 3 PPD lieutenant allies for the final fight.

There are probably other examples.