SteelRat

Re read the OP. Phantoms I apologise, not sure where I got the idea that was the tone at all.

Feel a bit of a [censored] now, it has to be said

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For the record I disagree.

The OP has been jumped on and ridiculed. You yourself as a self proclaimed "expert" are doing so by saying: "Most of these kinds of posts aren't infact anything other than incredibly desperate and sad individuals shouting off" implying that he might be one.

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Perhaps I should have made myself more clear. I am trying to point out that there is a difference between "I am worried that the game might be in a decline; here's why" and "The game is dooooomed, I demand action! The devs are rubbish. Post here if you agree. If you don't shut up 'cos I don't want a flame war"

People are far less likely to jump on, if that's the term you want to use, people who adopt the former attitude than the latter one. The OP has been jumped on because his post, at least came across, as the latter.

Not misused at all. Nor used to excess. Maybe you should read the whole post? Maybe not. *shrug*.

I never read an official forum of a game as a means of gauging whether or not it's going to be a worthwhile purchase for precisely the reason that it could be the most successful most well thought out game out there, but the official forums are always going to be full of self proclaimed "experts" who think that just because they don't like something, it's automatically and universally bad. Additionally, that one (or perhaps even group) of features that they don't like or disagree with their implementation automatically gives them the "right" to spout all sorts of personal opinion as misinformed "fact", and the resulting rant is massively disproportional to not only the thing(s) they're complaining about, but also the state of the game as well. Most of these kinds of posts aren't infact anything other than incredibly desperate and sad individuals shouting off in order that they might get people going "Yeah I agree with him!" to gain some sort of self worth as a result of it.

The AoC forums are a classic example of this. I actually found myself quite enjoying the game despite some of its not so well applied ideas, but a walk around the forums would really make even the keenest player lose the will to live. The example I will always remember is someone saved up the 2 gold for his mount, and accidentally sold it because he'd played whilst under the influence. The devs were lambasted by him and a number of other players for nothing more than his own carelessness and stupidity. When I commented that if you have something in your inventory you were that concerned about, surely you would take extra care not to sell it, I was equally labelled as heinous evil that should be struck from humanity!

Frankly, those who have raised concerns about the falls in population haven't been "jumped on" or ridiculed - it's only those who shout about it as if they are the "voice of the people" and their views are completely factual, and representative of the whole game population rather than just their own personal opinion about it.

You sir are a scholar and a gentleman. PM and screenshot imminent.

My only problem is going to be choosing just one of my alts :S

Edit: PM and linky sent.

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Day Jobs: Don't think newbies should be making 23 alts just yet

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Speaking from personal experience, I spent the first month of my game time making alts before I settled on a character I like. Alting is a big part of CoH, so I disagree here

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Merit System: The newbies probably dont even understand Story Arcs/TFs/GMs yet.

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Given that newbies to CoH, aren't necessarily going to be newbies to MMOs, there's a good chance they'll understand about contacts and the missions mechanic. Given also that in i13 you get a big message when you log in saying "Joe Bloggs wants to talk to you", it shouldn't take them long to grasp the idea, and once they've done an arc, got the reward for it, the rest they can probably work out for themselves.

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Levelling Pact: OK it might, but it would take a while to figure out this.

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No different to any of the other more complex game mechanics. It's a game "feature", and not one any other MMO has (at least afaik)

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New Cimerora Stuff: I'm sure no-one got to lvl 35 in about a week of first time playing or so.

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True, but it means that the zone is rich in content and things for them to do when they DO get there

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Multi Builds: Yeah, I'm pretty sure they won't use this instantly either.

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Neither will I. I'm not leaving any time soon either.

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New Powersets: Yes, they will use this. I can't deny it. But there is a LOAD of other powersets...these are two.

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Adding to the possible combinations and increasing the likelihood of players finding something they like, will settle with and thus keep playing.

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Base and PvE and PvP Changes: I'm not sure people get involved with Bases early on, and PvE and PvP numbers will pretty much confuse new players.

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Why? If they're new, they've got nothing to compare it with. Additionally new players don't really care about the numbers, just "If I hit him with this power, what happens?"

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So...do you see? There seems to be little to attract new players to the game in I13.

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I will agree that i13 is a little on the light side in terms of shinies, but not every issue in CoH's history has been one to bring out the brass band and fanfare it's greatness. Like every issue, it has a little bit of something for everyone. New powers, new badges, new content, some nice little "extras" and QoL stuff. You might not like the additions, but there could plenty of other people that do.

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Violence in computer games is nothing new, promoting obesity is (as that is how it would be seen by the current crop of health fascists), and in our current health obsessed climate such a move and subsequent promotion for a new feature would not be wise.

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I can see one, and only one, valid argument against new body options - technical difficulties. I've worked with 3d animation, so I'm aware of the tremendous amount of possible complications with all motions/emotes and costume pieces.

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Can or Will? This is an MMO about comic super heroes. You don't get fat superheroes or muscular female ones. The options provided cover all aspects covered for the genre that the game is intended for.

End.

Perhaps what triggered the necessity for the polygon smoothing in the first place was the impression that "nipples" had been included and the subsequent apparent breach of PEGI regs.

I wouldn't say "wrong" although "no real sense of achievement" is perhaps nearer to the mark, but I get your reasoning.

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Not sure if that was a quick reply or not Steel but if it was in reply to my message i never suggested there should be any form of slider added i was simply pointing out that a "fat character can be achieved by using costume pieces

Tho now you mention it a greater range to the sliders would be nice

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Nah mate it wasn't.. it was originally a long post in continuation of the discussing between Chat and myself, which ended up in a "Form is No Longer Valid", so I quick replied with a summary in my frustrated haste

"The form you submitted is no longer valid"... darn and blast you.

Summary: "Fat" in game as it stands corresponds to weight lifters in the real world. "Thin" in game corresponds to distance runners. In other words, not "fat" or "thin", but just covering the vista of what Joe Public would consider the peak of human physique.

If you want "fat" to be added, using your argument, we should also have a "Visible Rib Cage" slider.

Neither is desirable or practical.

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They often say that the character creator in this game is the most comprehensive in the MMO industry(which it isn't but thats not the point), and limiting it with only letting people look thin and healthy is just wrong.
But that is ofcourse my opinion.

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I take all of what you say on board, but the above is the only sticking point for me. Personally, I don't think limiting characters to being slim and healthy is wrong in the context of this game. People associate super-heroes with being the epitamy of human athleticism - I hesitate at the use of the word "perfection" because of the inevitable implications the use of that word would have. Even the excessively thin characters we can make now, still have well defined musculature and are a world away from the rib cage prominent gaunt features that can be seen on pictures of those that are unhealthily thin or anorexic.

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I'm not commenting on what is or isn't socially acceptable. Whether you like it or not people that are unhealthily thin don't get the same media attention as people that are unhealthily overweight.

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And overly thin models got banned because? Nobody wrote about it in the media?
Just kinda lacking argument there.

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"promoting unhealthy eating and obesity". Not terribly wise in the current climate, that's all I'm saying.

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Same thing can be said for overly thin people. Just change obesity to anorexia. Because I can assure you that they do not eat healthy. (no pun intended)
And sadly people can not and will not see the difference between a game and the real world so I know that this is a lost cause.

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You're missing my point entirely. If overweight models in this game were introduced, they would likely be advertised as a new feature, would they not? The bad press this would almost certainly generate would almost certainly make NC think twice before introducing such a feature.

The fact that overly thin characters can already be created is irrelevant because it's something that's part of the existing game, and therefore doesn't need to be advertised. Given also the bad press generated for doing so, it's unlikely ever to be so either!

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Additionally given the current obsession with health and obesity, even if it was something the majority of players wanted, would NC necessarily think it a good idea to promote and / or glamourise it by including it as an addition to a computer game?

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And enable females ingame to be so thin they are considered to be anorectic is... ?
Pro-ana is much worser than "promote and / or glamourise" fatness.
Just look at the models these days. They have banned models that are to thin.
so if we go by your statement the devs should remove the ability to make skinny characters.

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I'm not commenting on what is or isn't socially acceptable. Whether you like it or not people that are unhealthily thin don't get the same media attention as people that are unhealthily overweight. Additionally, overly thin characters can be made as part of the existing character models, whereas overly fat people cannot. This would have to be, therefore added as an additional feature, and / or model and be advertised as such. This advertising would almost certainly be jumped on by a health obsessed dogooder as "promoting unhealthy eating and obesity". Not terribly wise in the current climate, that's all I'm saying.

No thanks. If I want to see a man with a paunch, I'll look in a mirror. Additionally, fat heroes + spandex = increased requirement for mind bleach.

Additionally given the current obsession with health and obesity, even if it was something the majority of players wanted, would NC necessarily think it a good idea to promote and / or glamourise it by including it as an addition to a computer game?

Dragging the thread back on topic and away from the inevitable "GG vs The World: Animated Hair", my understanding was that the PEGI rating is advisory rather than enforceable anyway isn't it? (at least in terms of the minumum age requirement to play and / or buy the game)Although presumably when a company buys a rating from the governing body that must include a set of guide lines for what is and what isn't acceptable for a particular rating. Presumably, a developer would write NPC dialogue, and setting within that rating. Given that CoV was a 16 and CoH a 12, and that future development of the two games was going to be a more co ordinated affair, it would have made sense to give both games the same rating.

At the very least IO sets allow you to maximise the effectiveness of more components of an attack than SO's will alone. That fact on it's own makes them anything but "useless"

Strangely, and in all seriousness LB, I do actually see where you're coming from; it's your love of the game that you've played from it's first release that is perhaps part of the drive behind your concerns about it's current state and possible demise.

There are a couple of things though that I think one should bear in mind. Firstly, that no matter HOW miffed with it I get at times, and how much I stamp my feet at things about it that get on my pecs, and cancel my subs certain that I've had enough and NC have had my last £8.99, I come back to it. And I know I'm not alone. There is something that Cryptic got "right". I don't know if it's the player base, the comedy in the mission arcs, the "pick up and play" aspect, or perhaps even a whole combination of these things, but I feel that enough of the playerbase have the same feeling and that even if someone brought out a full Virtual Reality Hero MMO where your own image was projected onto your character (with appropriate "body buffs" ) in a fully interactive, photo realistic, 3D world, there would STILL be people playing CoH! (OK, maybe a slight exageration, but you catch my drift)

The other slightly tongue in cheek point is that Buddhists say "All things are transient, and nothing lasts for ever. To expect more, will lead to suffering". Of course it's a shame when the things that we love pass on, but an unfortunate fact of life. (Apologies if that came over as condescending or patronising, it was not my itention)

"Shockwave is a rubbish power - Spin is much better"

All a point of view. Personally I love shockwave; combine it with focus and you can keep bosses and EBs on their backs while you chop 'em up into little bits. And going into the hollows with a level 50 and spreading a group of lvl 6s half way across the Gulch in one shot? How is that a bad thing?

I tried a Claws scrapper on test, and did the same mission on test as on live; on balance the i13 version felt faster. As someone's already said, maybe Claws has had it's burst damage reduced, but over all DPS has been buffed.

To add to the pedantry... WoW is Super Hero MMO. CoH, Co and DCO are COMIC Super Hero MMOs.

Another LB "CoH is Doomed Because It Has Not Met My Expectations" Post.

Frankly, my take on it is this: If NC fail to deliver a game that can match up to the graphical, game play and features of CO and DCO, we, the player base will migrate to those other two games. Result? We get a better Super Hero MMO.

We win.

What's the problem?

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Its stupid. RWZ was fine before this so i dont see how the new cimerora arcs are the culprit

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In RWZ the contacts are the same whether you're hero or villain. In Cimemora, there are now seperate ones.

Just a couple of questions:

If the mish is already selected and you invite someone out of the zone, what happens?

Surely this is only a problem when the team is first built, as every other time, you're all going to be just outside the previous mission entrance when the new mission is selected?

What happens therefore, if you're all in the Hollows (let's say), the mission is selected then a player goes to Atlas while all the other players go to the mission entrance and start the mission? Are you saying they are prevented from entering that mission as soon as that player zones?

Unless any of the above happens and you only have to wait for members when you first build the team, I can't see what the problem is.

Edit.. just read the Auto Boot "feature". That is a tad irritating, and can well understand the frustration.

The game is now easier that it was pre i9, meaning that an SO PVE build is even more viable than it was then. You don't have to IO BOTH builds in order to play and be effective, although I fear amongst the games population there is the "I NEED TEH PURPLEZ" mentality, which could make people see farming as even more of a necessity than they do now.

Perception of a situation, whether real or not can be a powerful force.

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We have Rularuu, Talsorian and Roman weapon skins for the weapon wielding power sets, so how about some glove, boot or chest detail options for those characters that aren't weapon based? Not a "it's not fair™" thread, before anyone suggests it might be

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Making Rularuu and some other unlockable faction themed armor pieces - Agree. More unlockable weapons are good too of course, like a "severed freakshow robot appendage" axe or mace

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Don't get me started on Axe options. It's a shame all the decent axes have to be unlocked, and as a default you're stuck with choosing from "Axe Heroes: B&Q Edition"