Stalk_obot_EU

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Ninjutsu can't reach the total defense values of SR, but with a good build this difference is hardly noticeable in PvE. Ninjutsu's tools (Caltrops, Smoke Flash and Blinding Powder) are skippable if you need to squeeze in something important, but if not they are nice to have (in PvE anyway). Overall this set is very potent.

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Sure it can, my ninj/ninj runs 71% def to melee and range :P coincidently thats slotted elude

With IOs you can build in defence and KB protection easily enough but you cant dial in confuse and fear protection or an uninteruptable heal

Ninjitsu is everything SR wishes it was

tough is a bad move, its essentially useless in PvP as thats not where your strengths are and you have to lose 2 powers to keep it, you are shoring up your s/l resistences but you already have s/l resistences, you are missing all the rest and tough will do nothing against assassin strikes, energy melee and all the fire and ice being thrown at you. If your aim was to fight only SS and SM brutes then I would say take it, as it stands you are building strengths in where its not needed. Boxing is pure excrement and a total waste.

Fighting pool on pvp WP scrapper = bad bad bad bad bad

you will see no benefit unless all you fight is superstrength and stone melee brutes and maybe a AR corrupter

Im not really not trying to be rude and am trying to help but I wouldnt even fight you if thats the build you brought to PvP and would ignore your character in the zones as I gain nothing from easy kills (so I guess you could say your build is a winner in that respect )

I would strongly urge you to perhaps roll something easier (see regen) for pvp so you can get a hang of it before playing WP in the zones.

ball back in the stalkers court it seems

Ok

Scrapper willpower is hard work in PvP, you dont have a heal and have low reistences and defences and regeneration due to being a mish mash of mitigations which work great in PvE. Defence is too low to divert much incoming damage against pvp slotted opponants and you lack any real "exotic" resistence and is really only s/l resistent, regeneration is dependant on opponants standing in melee.

So on the face of that its pretty weak but you do get +30% HPs from your t1 secondary, the best mez resistence power in the game which resists everything but teleportaion (including repel, fear and confuse) and a +perception power. Quick recovery and fast healing are nice to pick yourself up to jump back into the fight.

You will need aid self to help mitigate the incoming damage and I would personally slot a stealth IO into your travel and grab stealth just for kicks, you would essentially be running invisibility and opponants will need a +perception to see you so you will be akin to a "ghetto stalker" and benefit from the lack of givable +perception buff red side. The stacking stealth would also reduce you getting ganked.

Storm kick, cripling axe kick and crane kick are adequate for a SC chain (and thunder kick is pretty superflous) cobra strike is awesome and you will have squishies chugging down their bfs pretty quickly. Sneak about stealthed stun them and then beat the poop out of them.

Now I wouldnt play a WP scrapper (WP is best for tanks) in pvp, I would strongly advise you to roll a MA/regen but then not everyone wants whats easiest, (I ran energy aura stalkers AND a ninja blader) But if I absolutely had to roll a MA/WP this is probably how I would do it for SC (bearing in mind I am posting this at 4am )

And go to MIDs herobuilder (link below) and play around with it

*edit* and will throw up a complete dream IO build sometime tomorrow if you really want it

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.30
http://www.honourableunited.org.uk/mhd.php

Level 29 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Martial Arts
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Concealment

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Storm Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Mind Over Body -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Fast Healing -- Empty(A)
Level 6: Cobra Strike -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Focus Chi -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Crane kick -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Rise to the Challenge -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Crippling Axe kick -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Quick Recovery -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Super Jump -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Stimulant -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Aid Self -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Heightened Senses -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Stealth -- Empty(A)
Level 32: [Empty]
Level 35: [Empty]
Level 38: [Empty]
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]------------
[u]Set Bonuses:[u]




<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>| Copy &amp; Paste this data chunk into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
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[ZKN&amp;L_3#B?2M.YTD=F7SO^#A&gt;U6R&lt;N/R*HX-:'M#O/!_F!.94`U@R`04_ZF4=%(3]L.I4?\E6IXMN;
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YI/3",7;]^:\5$]B)\4](LQNT6OY*PY3$7M4%&lt;\0,$1!31()($4M$YYSB8O:20DG1@F (KQ5:*EA27HK
BTK7&gt;-I2.&lt;0X58(,;1-QIWR-4`
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
</pre><hr />

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The title says it all but I'm still wetting myself over the tanker I attacked and killed late last night in RV.

Amazed that I actually detoggled him (he was stone I am EM/ELA) he starts saying all sorts of nasty things in broadcast. Apparantly he was farming and I quote "really needs the infamy" and he took time out to thank me for "nothing".

Anyway, if you wanna take the easy route (like I did) and farm/level in RV (2 purples so far) make sure you can handle yourself (and your emotions) when I come and wtfpwn you with my brute.

For others who read this post, I'm getting kind of lonely and the competition from the blue side has been ... pretty weak. Bring it on!

Just be a good sport when you win or lose, they are pixels after all.

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if he was in granite you didnt detoggle him, granite has mag 21.65 mez protection, thow in rooted and its mag 34 which to put it in context is over 3x brute mez powers and just under 3x other tanker mez powers. Its hard enough to stack em stuns over tankers normal mag 13 mez protection (but is possible) so I would assume he clicked the wrong button.

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Yes, scOulOu means avoid AoE attacks.


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Yes, I mean AoE attacks. Excuse my english, which is rather poor

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ah then we agree (except for throw spines)

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Some basic rules in pvp (which are its defaults, in fact) :
- no zonal attacks when you're a melee at (the way the pvp is played make them utterly useless)

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Buh?

work out what level of PvP you want to play at, energy melee tanks are only of use once they get their level 38 power AND have it slotted. Its a long haul untill you get there.

Fire/Superstrength tank is going to be your easiest way in for all ranges, its toggle light, tons of hit points, great heal and with firey embrace + rage and KO blow you will be laughing

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What you're forgetting is that regens have the base regen of Fast Healing and Integration, which puts them at 500% (?) regen. My "cheap" IO build for my kat/regen is running ay slightly above 700% without uniques.
But yeah, WP is good.

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um no, i ran the numbers and pretty much showed everything from slotted alone IH to fully slotted up IH, FH, Health and integration in optimal HP cap status for the scrapper and when it outpaces the WP tank, see here

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if the regen scrapper was hp capped with accolades and dull pain he reaches HPs of just over 2400 and regens 156 HPs

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And thats with everything slotted up and running, H, IH, FH, Integ and DP (and is also unsustainable in any build). I was in no way trying to bend the numbers to show what I wanted, I showed everything as is. Base regen on a scrapper with H, FH and integ is 365% (including the 100% base regen that every character has) which recovers 20.4 HPs per second, to put that into context, the base regen of wp tank at base everything (including HPs) health and FH gives a regen of 215% and heals for 20.1 HPs per second, so even at base WP tanks essentially get integration for free.

Your example of "base" regen of FH and Integ actually only recovers 325% (again including 100% base regen all characters get)to get 500% (494%) regen on a scrapper you need FULLY slotted fast healing and integration (and again tanks reach the same relative levels from just Health and Fast healing) which I will assume you actually ment (base is unslotted everything)

As I stated WP can run (slotted) base IH as a PASSIVE which it does and even exceeds when you factor in the toggle RTTC the numbers change again and then it EXCEEDS fully slotted H, FH, IH and integ (base). Then you can factor in the regen being at the scrapper HP cap and their full on regen of H, IH, FH and integ draws ahead of the WP tank BUT they have 750 less HPs AND no realistic resistences.

Lets put it into a further context, you have an invulnerable brute with double hitpoints running fully slotted but base instant healing, IH, H, FH and Integ (but without a clicky heal)

Also worth remembering is that the enhanceable portion of instant healing for scrappers is tiny, only 25% of IH is actually enhanceable

Make no mistake, WP is NOT a awesome pvp set for all ATs that can access it, it works ok for stalkers due to the mez, resistences and clicky heal that ONLY they get, due to stalkers tiny HPs (and lack of RTTC) its not even worth taking FH on a stalker and going for any regen, its pretty meh on a brute (pvp) due to lack of heal and smaller HPs (re significantly less regen) and pretty pants on a scrapper for having even less HPs than brutes. It is however godly on tanks and thats my point. Whatever regen bonuses a scrapper can squeeze out of IOs tanks (all, but especially WP) get twice the benefit or more out of them due to regeneration being a % of total hitpoints. (same with the +HP IO bonuses)

Now regen scrappers are very strong and durable but my top spec EM/Fire brute hasnt met one she cant put down but then she is in a nice spec and 2 shots ice tanks when they come out of hibernate (clues right there) but there was a WP tank in RV (freedom server) who was just not dying, when he started to get into the danger zone up came strength of will (oh and I havent even mentioned the 300second recharge of the t9) in the end I had to carefully line up my attacks to stack stun over their mez. Now this is one of regens true value in PvP, they have resiliance which on the face of it is a pants power but with all the EM in PvP you will never get stunned (unless a DA decided to spite you and rez after you killed them)

I think properly speccd WP tank with aid self would be literally unkillable in melee combat against any other melee toon (unless they stack stuns over their mez ) WPs weakness is their lack of clicky heal built in but /elec brutes do more than ok with aid self. An ultimate spec regen scrapper with perma DP is probably a little more versatile with uninteruptable heals and better damage index but WP gets my vote for what will be a future fotm once people realise what they can drag out of it (tanks and stalkers only)

you can actually eliminate the entire -speed of granite AND rooted and the -recharge of granite with a correct IO build

Willpower is very good on tanks even in pvp without a self heal, regeneration is based as a % of hitpoints so the more you have the more regeneration you run. Throw in the accolade powers and a wp tank is running massive regeneration. A wp tank with accolades running 572% regeneration is regenerating the same as a regen scrapper (at base hitpoints) running 1052% regeneration (and instant healing is 993% 3 slotted) which is quite simple pretty awesome and thats before you start throwing in +regeneration bonuses and taking into account the very large +regen bonuses you can get from IOs. So you can actually set up a WP tank so you are essentially running perma IH which is very very nice. AND you get +perception AND a comprehensive mez protect AND resistences to SL equal to an INV brute AND a mild t9 crash AND massive res to PSI AND some semi decent defences as a bonus. Throw in aid self and you are laughing.

Never forget 10% regen found in many IO sets goes a lot futher on a tank than it does on any other AT.

*edit* im halfway through a +regen build on a WP tank and without Rise to the challange running im already supassing perma IH on a scrapper 491% regen and 3150 HPs means 65 Hps are regenerated every second. A regen scrapper running IH, fast healing, health and integration all 3 slotted with heal IOs (regeneration 1566%) regens 87.3 HPs every second. With the WP tank running RTTC regen reaches 749% regen and 98.3 HP every second. Now of course if the regen scrapper was hp capped with accolades and dull pain he reaches HPs of just over 2400 and regens 156 HPs every second but then they dont have any resistences.

Its really quite interesting but as a WP tank can run better than instant healing (3 slotted with health IOs)on a base HP scrapper passively (1093% regen, 1339 HPs, 61 HPs regen ever second), permanantly (IH cant be perma on scrappers) without rise to the challenge I really dont see them as going to have much issues in pvp

*edit edit* oops i left out the regenerative tissues +25% regen unique IO too so it gets even better

Basically you have the resistences of a INV brute, the defences of epic class armour (in way more categories) +perception, repel res, confuse res, fear res, twice the hit points of a brute and run instant healing passively, no built in heal certainly looks like a good trade off from where I am sitting

Just not here...

The red names US side are busy promoting PvP for the game with this advertised on the US updater next to issue 11

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat....;vc=1&amp;nt=20

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( still havent managed to put in quotes)
ok sounds good but have you done the attack chain of SP+smite+SP+smite...as we were talking about??? becauce i just tryed out putting 3 recharge reduction in My SS tankers Jab and that put the recharge time lower than the animation 1,02 vs. 1,07 and witout doubt he wasent jabbing all the time. So with that experiment as agument i wut say thet the SP+smite+SP+smite attack chain dient happen and something like boxing wut fit rigth in.

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No I have been in the Ukraine for a month and havent been able to play the game, all theoretical atm Though I have seen posts on the US forums of people just running SP and Smite

haha, theres always one or two who sneak a team together

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Again in my game the recharge starts when the activation time is over. From the icon becomes small and distant. and how do you get elude down to 20 seconds wutent that take like more recharge time bonus than all the sets put togeather???
Please post the built you are refering to.
The recharge time in mids for elude is 1000 secs the casting is 2 secs and the duration is 180 secs if we disregard the activation time wicth i admit isent alot here you wut need +400% recharge to get the down time down to 20secs i assume that is with the help of several kinetics friends or a full radiation team.

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From a purely theoretical point of view I went to town on a build to get the god mode down to as little as possible and I can say that I managed to get elude down to a recharge downtime of 24(+) seconds, I dont beleive that it is possible to get it any lower without external buffs. The character in question was a DM/SR and did not use any external buffs but was dependant on Geas of the Kind Ones but as thats only a 60 second buff the recharge would be skewed and would probably give a downtime of more like 40 seconds in total over one recharge.

Realistically with a balls out +recharge build on one of the sets with +recharge built into it (SR/Elec) you are looking at a downtime of around 80 seconds in a none gimped build which really isnt too bad at all (260 recharge - 180 in elude)

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It's impossible to get elude with less recharge than 333 seconds, due to recharge capping at 300%. (If I understand that correctly)
Also, the recharge starts after the cast time, which some call activation.

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400% is the cap iirc, which does give a 20 sec downtime (recharges in 200 secs) since the formula is base recharge / (1+ buff).

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as Okton says

no, the recharge starts from the time that you activate the power, hence elude and the other god mode recharges are from activation not deactivation this is how you can get eludes recharge down to 20 seconds and not 3minutes and 20 seconds. Otherwise TF would have a 23.3 second recharge time.

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Its all just the wrong thing to be going for on the one set that got a full chain of 2 attacks . Proc herding is just a gimmick and requires messing up the most awesome chain in the game by throwing in [censored] like boxing, you cant beat SP+Smite+SP+Smite+SP+Smite+SP+Smite.

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But smite has a base recharge of 6sec if my info is correct, even with loads of recharge that would still not make this a seamless chain. I would have to do some counting but its quite possible that you would get more DPS simply by using Boxing as a filler.

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you can get smites recharge down to 1.6 seconds factoring in the animation (0.97) that gives a downtime of 0.63 seconds which is the animation of brawl and is fractionally longer than SP (0.57) So Smite+SP animations would eat up 1.54 seconds of the 1.6second recharge leaving a whopping 0.06 second downtime.

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Its all just the wrong thing to be going for on the one set that got a full chain of 2 attacks . Proc herding is just a gimmick and requires messing up the most awesome chain in the game by throwing in [censored] like boxing, you cant beat SP+Smite+SP+Smite+SP+Smite+SP+Smite.

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Well then forgive me since this is the first time I've heard of the DPS DM brute idea. Both the proc and non-proc ideas sound like a pretty cool build idea to me. Do you have a copy of the build of the version you describe? I'd love to compare the differences with the one linked above.

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Sorry if I sounded rude, I dont mean to be, it just seems to be natural

I will post what I have organised when I get back to the UK as Im out of the country at the moment but the 2 move combo of Smite+SP is great from the get go, Im running a scrapper version too (dm/regen)

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@stalk, i thought the faster recharge you can get on elude is 60 seconds after it drops?

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Nah im pretty sure 20 seconds is when you are at the recharge cap, probably buffed up, which ofc, is cheating in PvP.

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recharge cap is 400% which gives a downtime of 20 seconds

on a side note I like BB, its one of the few places where villains outshine heroes. I use it to farm debt on my PvP accolade villains as freaks nice xp and theres the odd distraction when some smart [censored] spines/regen think they have the jump on you, of course it doesnt occur to them that you have domination on standby (if you are not in domination anyway) due to fighting the npcs. Man I love that Zone, pretty busy on US side too.

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go MA/Regen, it's the best PvP scrapper imop

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This.

or a MA/SR with perma-elude.

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not technically possible, there will always be a 20 second downtime

Its irrelevant how many proc checks you have running when SP+Smite alone makes DM/ the highest DPS brute around and will destroy anything standing in just a few clicks.

Its all just the wrong thing to be going for on the one set that got a full chain of 2 attacks . Proc herding is just a gimmick and requires messing up the most awesome chain in the game by throwing in [censored] like boxing, you cant beat SP+Smite+SP+Smite+SP+Smite+SP+Smite.

I dont like it, DM/Elec rocks but going procs in attacks is a waste especially when you can permachain SP and Smite with no downtime and need nothing else in the chain, not even soul drain

I never understand why no khelds? They are not some form of uber toon

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I beat darkblapshey with my katana/regen/body/ss/tp/invis scrapper :P

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Aye, farming builds are not specially good for pvp although the tactic was good, 10 lucks+ 10 reds, tp foe+melee hit+laser beam eyes, me dead. Then remain invis (that's not like running, don't lie ^^) for the remaining 9:50 mins, and i didnt have tactics anymore or any yellow. All in all it was imaginative, I had a laugh at it hehe

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And that sums up all that is wrong in PvP, its not imaginative, its just **** like ice tanks with phase. It just seems imaginative to you as you probably go to arena to fight unlike certain other people.

Whats the point? I mean really, we can all build a toon to gimp a kill then hide in the corner but why?

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nar fire/kins i beat one with my katana/regen who uses tp

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fight dark blasphemy then