PvEer wanting to learn PvP due to open mind
By
Dark_Blasphemy_EU,
Posted on: 2008-01-14 09:48 in Everything about PvP
Current spec:
1:High Pain Tolerance(1)
1:Storm Kick(1)(3)(3)(5)(5)
2:Mind Over Body(2)(19)(19)
4:Fast Healing(4)(17)(17)
6:Boxing(6)(7)(7)(15)(15)
8:Crane Kick(8)(9)(9)(11)(11)
10:Focus Chi(10)(13)(13)
12:Combat Jumping(12)
14:Super Jump(14)
16:Rise to the Challenge(16)
18:Indomitable Will(18)
20:Quick Recovery(20)(21)(21)
22:Tough(22)
note:I can and will make changes, after all thats part of what this thread is all about.
First of all i would like to support you in your endeavor to the PvP world as a PvEer. Something i think most PvE-only people that complain bout PvP could learn bout. After all i believe only reason "casual pvp" cant exist according to them, is because atm there are no "casual" opponents. And the current population of people who PvP alot i suppose can scare a newcomer away.
That aside.. I'm afraid I can offer only limited advice on your build. Got no experience with WP on scrappers in PvP, strengths/weaknesses etc. I know its viable on stalkers, but thats a whole different story. But im sure someone here knows the lowdown on WP on scrappers. Can offer some advice on MA, but again not too much as I barely see these in PvP really.
Speaking of which, let me get it straight thir probably wouldnt be the wtfpwnage toon of a zone. Then again, that shouldnt be a problem cause you already said thats now what you want. As for "needing" SJ and either BM or WM, thats good..
SJ is the most popular pvp travel power: fast, reliable, full freedom of movement, and less -jump powers around than -fly 
. And if you pvp, you really only want to pick between body and weapons mastery, both are good if used well. I picked weapons on my BS/Regen to prevent people from running so i could kill em thanks to BS' slow activating/recharging powers. I think MA would benefit more from body though.
While we're on the topic of MA, MA is a bit of an average set i think in PvP. It can deal a nice amount of damage, however seeing it is smashing damage, it is resisted by a fair bit of powers. You could say the same is for BS with its lethal damage, but the amount of lethal damage is so high it easily compensates. I could be mistaken, but I dont think MA reaches those lvls, still it does a fair bit of damage.
To compensate however MA got some nice tricks like slow, stun, etc which are pretty nasty in PvP. Well, nasty for your opponent anyway. I'd say focus on squishies in sirens and wb, to a lesser extent in RV cause squishies will have their epics which often includes a smash res/def shield.
As for slotting, have every attack 2x acc, 3x dam + 1 other, probably recharge. Focus on burst damage and as much damage as possible per attack, rather than a stream of attacks to deal damage. Your opponent wont stand still long enough, or will just heal inbetween. With focus chi, focus on 3x rech, and then try to add tohit on it, even better would be 3x the rech/tohit HO. Basic stuff you probably know, but always good to mention it anyway.
Not sure bout 5slotting boxing, as you'd be better off spending those slots on your MA attacks cause they deal more damage.
As for sets on MA, i can recommend crushing impact (+acc and +rech as set bonuses) or mako's bite (+dam iirc). Once more, cant comment on that for WP.
Basically with PvP you try to max out one aspect of a power, for instance with attacks you want to max out damage dealt to an opponent, which requires a mix of acc/dam/rech. You dont want to min/max for PvP which is fair enough, but even without harming your PvE toon too much you can still focus a bit, just maybe not to the extreme, on it.
As for basic tactics.. move fast, keep moving, hit first, hit hard
Hope this was any help
"god, how many devs did hami have to sleep with to get ED?"
Total Cat @Stagefright
I'd also recommend taking your first PvP steps in the Arena, where it's a controlled environment, rather than the pitiless killing fields of the PvP zones 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Thing is, fighting in arena is way different than fighting in zones.. might as well immediately drop you in the deep waters
"god, how many devs did hami have to sleep with to get ED?"
Total Cat @Stagefright
Ok
Scrapper willpower is hard work in PvP, you dont have a heal and have low reistences and defences and regeneration due to being a mish mash of mitigations which work great in PvE. Defence is too low to divert much incoming damage against pvp slotted opponants and you lack any real "exotic" resistence and is really only s/l resistent, regeneration is dependant on opponants standing in melee.
So on the face of that its pretty weak but you do get +30% HPs from your t1 secondary, the best mez resistence power in the game which resists everything but teleportaion (including repel, fear and confuse) and a +perception power. Quick recovery and fast healing are nice to pick yourself up to jump back into the fight.
You will need aid self to help mitigate the incoming damage and I would personally slot a stealth IO into your travel and grab stealth just for kicks, you would essentially be running invisibility and opponants will need a +perception to see you so you will be akin to a "ghetto stalker" and benefit from the lack of givable +perception buff red side. The stacking stealth would also reduce you getting ganked.
Storm kick, cripling axe kick and crane kick are adequate for a SC chain (and thunder kick is pretty superflous) cobra strike is awesome and you will have squishies chugging down their bfs pretty quickly. Sneak about stealthed stun them and then beat the poop out of them.
Now I wouldnt play a WP scrapper (WP is best for tanks) in pvp, I would strongly advise you to roll a MA/regen but then not everyone wants whats easiest, (I ran energy aura stalkers AND a ninja blader) But if I absolutely had to roll a MA/WP this is probably how I would do it for SC (bearing in mind I am posting this at 4am )
And go to MIDs herobuilder (link below) and play around with it
*edit* and will throw up a complete dream IO build sometime tomorrow if you really want it
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.30
http://www.honourableunited.org.uk/mhd.php
Level 29 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Martial Arts
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Concealment
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Storm Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Mind Over Body -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Fast Healing -- Empty(A)
Level 6: Cobra Strike -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Focus Chi -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Crane kick -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Rise to the Challenge -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Crippling Axe kick -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Quick Recovery -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Super Jump -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Stimulant -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Aid Self -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Heightened Senses -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Stealth -- Empty(A)
Level 32: [Empty]
Level 35: [Empty]
Level 38: [Empty]
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]------------
[u]Set Bonuses:[u]
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>| Copy & Paste this data chunk into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MHDz;1410;374;500;|
>-KE4]M*Q#`4?"_T'_R!RIZD5WP2%U&P3X(^AQIV@[4M:4&$T&\W24]L;+K^@)1VZ,PYDSDA>>"R/[*
)O7`YBKZ[@>LTCE3-3J)1SXUDP\!E'-5,3H*U5[=R&M6K:-NA_^12/79G+GDWJ2?.!M&=5,W?1",ZKN
[ZKN&L_3#B?2M.YTD=F7SO^#A>U6R<N/R*HX-:'M#O/!_F!.94`U@R`04_ZF4=%(3]L.I4?\E6IXMN;
#+]!GJVZH7UV.C%ZE\I"/5J[0<#:1`0O`IJ0VXKJ#=CIB'T,*SS,(GRH,++"29H%E1X28D9 )-@*XB4E
5*<(DA)O-TFF*T*/;,U!"@U!4E)X'I7-N:WPDE([=X+3.S+=(XL=,CWLD72/S/?(,B#M8!>/L=/)'[H
YI/3",7;]^:\5$]B)\4](LQNT6OY*PY3$7M4%<\0,$1!31()($4M$YYSB8O:20DG1@F (KQ5:*EA27HK
BTK7>-I2.<0X58(,;1-QIWR-4`
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
</pre><hr />
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
[ QUOTE ]
They could drown
[/ QUOTE ]
then they didnt learn fast enough
Anyway I agree with the tactics stalk posted in the above post. Already had my suspicions WP mightve been weak in pvp, so guess I just got that confirmed. The ghetto stalker approach should work as well as I think MA is a set that benefits a fair bit from this approach.
"god, how many devs did hami have to sleep with to get ED?"
Total Cat @Stagefright
On the bright side, WP might be fun against a thug MM and his gang war 
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They could drown
[/ QUOTE ]
then they didnt learn fast enough
[/ QUOTE ]
So they give up on PvP? This sounds a good way of encouraging more PvP actvity
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Hey guys!Had some of my first spars these days.Ok, so they didnt go very well, but it was expected and actually fun was had. I respeced recently due to a useful lesson both here and actual play about the medicine pool(also since science origin it even makes better sense than fighting
though i dont really want to drop Tough):
1:Storm Kick(1)(3)(3)(5)(5)
1:High Pain Tolerance(1)(23)(23)
2:Mind Over Body(2)(19)(19)(25)
4:Fast Healing(4)(17)(17)
6:Boxing(6)(7)(7)(15)(15)
8:Crane Kick(8)(9)(9)(11)(11)
10:Focus Chi(10)(13)(13)
12:Combat Jumping(12)
14:Super Jump(14)
16:Rise to the Challenge(16)
18:Indomitable Will(18)
20:Quick Recovery(20)(21)(21)
22:Aid Other(22)
24:Aid Self(24)(25)
26:Tough(26)
Will probably get Cobra Strike at 30, right after Heightened Senses.Question:I normally LOVE Cobra strike conceptually(real life MA is not just kicks like in the movies)but because of power over concept i took it late as its dmg just seems non-existent... Would it be worthy in lower lvls?I mean in Sirens it will still be available...
Also question: I got my hands on a Touch of Death neg energy dmg proc from one of my other toons. Would the following slotting make sense: Cobra Strike, 2xacc, 3xStun, 1xProc?or even 5xStun set(stypefy?) & proc?
Also thank you all(and the one that invited me in Defiant PvP channel the other night) for being super-helpful.
Will also probably get the Stealth IO for Jump.
I also noticed that PvP needs quite some player skill which is encouraging as imho provides fairness(alright, it leads to ganking but not only that happens in all games also experience can save you from that many times-timidi matter non flet). I mean, as a new guy it was kinda hard to jump right next to a moving toon after casting Focus Chi(they constantly run after that lol) which as i said its only fair, winning/losing due to skill.
For some reason i find it hard to download Mids, but anyway i have most sets learnt by heart from other toons(except the new ones that is, will learn those in time too).
Also:all attacks have 2xacc,3xdam. Mind Over Body has 29-lvl Titanium Coating, 54%res,38%endredux, x%rechrge(dont care, right?) I picked Coating due to not needing more psi res(other resist sets sacrifice base enhancement values to give psi res like Aegis and Impervium Armour, which i dont need)
Will probably get Crushing Impact to all attacks later on.
HPTolerance is slotted 2xHeal(not sure about set), 1x steadfast protection +3%def(small but cant hurt, right?
Fast Healing is 3xHeal(not sure about set, probably unique enhs like Numinas and stuff). Will post a full build with set bonuses when i am 40 lvl(too few slots now to hunt for serious set bonuses).
Thanks all will have news soon!
Cobra Strike's damage indeed is low-to-non-existant, however you dont pick it for damage, you pick it for that nice stun. People ->HATE<- stuns in PvP (well generally speaking). Your other tricks are immob, knockback and slow. Immob and knockback are negated by almost every PvPer having combat jumping + acro. Slow however is once more a hated secondary effect in PvP. Although its more slow recharge thats hated than slow movement. Stuns however is a bit less resisted, you cant pick a pool to offer stunresist. So only ATs with inherent mez-resist powers and squishies with external mez-resistance will counter your stun.
"god, how many devs did hami have to sleep with to get ED?"
Total Cat @Stagefright
tough is a bad move, its essentially useless in PvP as thats not where your strengths are and you have to lose 2 powers to keep it, you are shoring up your s/l resistences but you already have s/l resistences, you are missing all the rest and tough will do nothing against assassin strikes, energy melee and all the fire and ice being thrown at you. If your aim was to fight only SS and SM brutes then I would say take it, as it stands you are building strengths in where its not needed. Boxing is pure excrement and a total waste.
Fighting pool on pvp WP scrapper = bad bad bad bad bad
you will see no benefit unless all you fight is superstrength and stone melee brutes and maybe a AR corrupter
Im not really not trying to be rude and am trying to help but I wouldnt even fight you if thats the build you brought to PvP and would ignore your character in the zones as I gain nothing from easy kills (so I guess you could say your build is a winner in that respect )
I would strongly urge you to perhaps roll something easier (see regen) for pvp so you can get a hang of it before playing WP in the zones.
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
[ QUOTE ]
Im not really not trying to be rude
[/ QUOTE ]
so you ARE trying to be rude
"god, how many devs did hami have to sleep with to get ED?"
Total Cat @Stagefright
[ QUOTE ]
I wouldnt even fight you if thats the build you brought to PvP and would ignore your character in the zones as I gain nothing from easy kills (so I guess you could say your build is a winner in that respect )
[/ QUOTE ]
Lol! lies! You DO love easy fights ^^
After some play, i saw that for some reason, tough didnt even make a PvE difference after SO-lvl enhancement values.
Gonna replace boxing with Crippling Axe Kick
Question:If I take Stealth, I would like, even much later on, to take Phase Shift conceptually. I won't do it if it is a really bad choice so how bad/good choice would that be?
Also about sets:What can i do to boost anti-exotic defenses? I don't really think reactive armor will make any difference... Aegis/Impervium armor i dont think I'm gonna need, as i said.Thats why i ended up with [censored].Coating. Any other advice would b welcome, though...
For attacks I'm for the moment thinking Crushing Impact to all except Cobra Strike(5xStupefy/1xTouch of Death Proc)
For Fast Healing, 3xHeal,3x3 uniques(u know, Numinas, Miracle etc.)Not sure about others yet.Anyways about powers till 50 my idea currently is(no i will not play regen no matter how better it is):
1:HPT
1:Storm Kick
2:Mind Over Body
4:Fast Healing
6:Focus Chi
8:Crane Kick
10:Indomitable Will
12:Combat Jumping
14:Super Jump
16:RttC
18:Crippling Axe Kick
20:Quick Recovery
22:Aid Other
24:Aid Self
26:Cobra Strike
28:Heightened Senses
30:Stealth
32:Eagle Claw
35:Invisibility
38:Phase Shift(as it is now, does Strength of Will help or just MoG-like?)
41:Focused Accuracy
44:Conserve Power
47:Hurdle
49:Health(are they too little, too late?Maybe skip for presence pool for Fear?)
Also note: I will have a +perception IO and a +Stealth IO any day now(got the money, just minor net problems atm).Roughly estimated i will have set bonuses about +34%acc, +40%rech, will aim for regen/recov but hard to keep track right now(public PC, problem stated earlier, so no relevant programs)
[ QUOTE ]
Question:If I take Stealth, I would like, even much later on, to take Phase Shift conceptually. I won't do it if it is a really bad choice so how bad/good choice would that be?
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Well, seeing imo youre a bit squishier than most generally used PvP scrappers (basically SR and regen really..), it could be nice as a "oh *bleep*" power to use when you are about to hit the floor. Personally i wouldnt use phase on a scrapper, but it might be interesting to try.. cause i wouldnt roll a /WP scrapper anyway
[ QUOTE ]
will aim for regen/recov
[/ QUOTE ]
do you mean the numina's unique, or just in general with set bonuses? If you try to pick sets that will boost regen, I can warn you now that a slightly faster regen isnt the thing that'll keep you alive in PvP. PvP generally isnt a prolonged fight wearing each other down, it often comes down on who hits first and who hits hardest. High burst damage is where it is at, especially in zonal PvP, and that slightly higher regen rate wont protect you from that..
"god, how many devs did hami have to sleep with to get ED?"
Total Cat @Stagefright
Hey guys. Listen, in the spirit of keeping an open mind, i'd like to learn basic PvP skills(zonal) while playing my new toon. Though i never totally shunned PvP, I was mainly PvEer(note:defiant), i really don't care wether i get owned, ganked, or anything at start ( already happened, ALL games with good PvP imho have that) , just need advice on the build and some tactics.
The toon is MArts/Willpower(not originally intended to PvP so dunno if the combination can ever work) the only Power Pools my concept "forces" me to take are super jump and either Body Mastery(supposed to have the power to control his cells) or at least Weapon Mastery(as in, no Dark).
I have inf to spend on IO sets, like, not infinite but can eeasilly obtain 80-100 mil for basic sets, then slowly gain more to buy numinas and stuff(not my first char as some may know, so i can farm)
Currently toon is just lvl 22, just decided to go learn PvP(mainly so i dont mindlessly shun "imba PvPers" like others , not to become hardcore PvPer myself).Can u guys help me here?