Smiling_Joe
-
Posts
1131 -
Joined
-
Quote:So you want a taunt effect added to Black Dwarf Mire to match the one in White Dwarf Flare to give the Black Dwarf more tanking ability?Originally Posted by Bloodspeaker
Yes, I was referring to the version of Sunless Mire on the Dwarf form. They may call it something else, but my only WS is a human-form build, so I don't recall if it's named differently.
Sure! Just as soon as White Dwarf Flare offers up a damage and tohit buff... -
Quote:If you're staying "kindamostly" in human form, then you're going to be "kindamostly" staying face down on the ground, because this build is pretty much gutting the human at the expense of the forms - to the point that I wonder if you didn't mistype and really meant you're "kindamostly" staying in forms, while occasionally switching to cast your nuke and photon seekers.Originally Posted by BlackCaduceus
I plan on "kindamostly" staying within human form, but flipping to Nova or Dwarf when needed within any group I am in.
I don't have time to load it into mids right now, but here's some items at first glance:
IF you're planning on being in human form a large portion of the time:
Slot stamina. You'll need it.
Take all three shields and SLOT them.
The only two attacks you've slotted in human form are RS and IS. Your dps is going to be sucktastic regardless of how much recharge you build in. Luminous Detonation and Gleaming Blast are actually not completely horrible when slotted. Might I suggest dropping Pulsar and Conserve energy, taking those two powers and putting the purple sets from your nova attacks in them (along with the slots?) Those purple sets have good bonuses, but they also have good enhancement values that are being wasted in two attacks that you don't intend to use that often.
Same with the Hecatomb in White Dwarf Strike. If you're not intending to use White Dwarf Strike very often, then why on earth wouldn't you swap those enhancements out with the five Crushing Impacts in Radiant Strike? (no offense, Crushing Impact, but you're just not as good a set as Hecatomb)
I'd also rather see you move those Armageddons from Dawn Strike to Solar Flare, where you'll get much more use out of them. Dawn Strike is situational, at best.
To find the slots for that, do this:
Pull that entropic chaos from Glinting Eye and toss it! You've got a dull pain clone and two heals with high recharge! Put that slot in Solar Flare.
Pull that third level 50 IO slot from Hasten and put that in Solar Flare as well. Two level 50 recharge IO's will put you at the ed cap, so the third is largely wasted.
Pull that Performance Shifter out of White Dwarf and save yourself some inf - if you're not going to be in that form much then you won't need it. Put that slot in Solar Flare as well.
Pull that extra Hami out of Pulsar and put that slot in Solar Flare as well. Pulsar's long animation time and low mag are of limited usefulness, and I've already recommended you drop the power altogether in favor of a ranged human blast.
There you go: five slots in Solar Flare for that Armageddon set, plus room in Dawn Strike for the set of your choice. And don't limit yourself to PBAoE sets. Four slots from Kinetic Crash will slot well for damage and accuracy, and will give you three more points of kb protection, with a slot left over for a generic IO to compensate for whatever aspect is lacking. Find a sixth slot for it and you've got another 7.5% recharge (If you've got five 7.5% bonuses, then you can drop one of your LoTG mules for something useful, like maybe Luminous Detonation or Gleaming Blast.
..... So that's my quick advice: start with these changes and fill in the gaps from there, but only
*IF*
you're going to stick to your strategy of staying in human form most of the time.
*IF*
on the other hand, you're willing to swap out your strategy and spend most of your time in forms, then I say go on with your bad self as is. Good build at a glance, and I say run with it.
But only IF you're willing to stay out of human form as much as possible. -
Honestly I'd be ecstatic if only Hide could get unsupressed stealth ala Energy Cloak for Brutes (and soon Scrappers). That alone would be an incredible buff IMHO.
EDIT - goes without saying, obviously, that the defense portion of Hide would still supress, otherwise Stalkers would go 'round with capped AoE defense. And also the "hidden" status would supress. Just clarifying: ONLY the stealth radius would remain unsupressed. -
Quote:I find these remarks rather interesting, Leo. Not in the "I have a bone to pick" sense, but just in the "I've noticed the same thing" sense.Originally Posted by Leo_G
I have to agree that the new Brute Fury is kinda more of a buff for me. But then my playstyle is far and away from the 'go go go' nature of the AT.
Then another question pops up: "Is it okay to flip theme the bird?"
The new Fury, while advantageous to my gameplay, may hamper the gameplay of another who followed the theme properly. When I play Brute, I'm prepared for 'go go go' and if not I play a Stalker or Scrapper. But now it doesn't matter. Brutes are like Scrappers but with a bar that hardly matters anymore.
I'd rather not Stalkers become Scrappers with that non-sequitur of a stealth power.
Recently more than one archetype has been changed to the detriment of "theme" and in favor of "performance." You gave the example of brutes, and I'd add doms to that, as well. Too many people were complaining that their dominators weren't doing enough damage (verses those who could get domination up on a consistent basis) and so domination was nerfed in favor of giving more damage to the archetype as a whole.
In other words, the Jekyll/Hyde theme was all but tossed away in favor of an overall change that made the archetype easier to play.
In fact, the entire game has been getting ridiculously easy, lately.
I have to say I agree with you here. Whole-heartedly.
That's a bit of an understatement. Those of us who were involved in the debate that led up to the changes to the archetype were all surprised at Castle's "grab bag" approach to buffing the archetype. It's like he basically just went through took everyone's suggestions and figured out how to implement them all.Quote:When Angry_Citizen was here during the changes, even he admit it pushed us away from what the AT was meant to be but it improved Stalkers to be competitive with the other melees. Since none of the other melees were buffed since then, I'm going to go with his version of 'par' as I'm sure he knew a lot more than you guys do.
AC was more than a little disappointed, and I saw his point. He wanted the archetype to be competitive within its theme, felt that the changes were way to gimmicky.
Even though one of those gimmicks was my suggestion at the time, I'd much rather not see more gimmicks added. Your suggestion about balancing the sets with each other with an eye to Kinetic Melee makes the most sense to me at this point. -
Quote:Good point. I'd quite forgotten about Energy Drain.Originally Posted by Zem
Err... Energy Drain is +end now. Come issue 21 it will also offer +def for Stalkers. So what would be the problem with Energy Absorption? I don't think there's a rule anywhere that Stalkers can't have endurance recovery powers. It's just been the case that when it came time to pick a power to make room for Hide, some of the sets lost their endurance recovery power just because it was thought to be least critical to survival of all the powers in the set.
-
Quote:Two words: Energy AbsorptionOriginally Posted by Kioshi
If they don't raise the Stalker HP cap I see little point in playing Ice Armor (since it has a Dull Pain clone) unless C. Embrace actually holds aggro and you wanna tank with a Stalker.
Provided it actually stays in the set with its +defense component intact.
Given the history of stalker set ports and Edurance powers, however, I have some doubt that it will make it in as a direct port. Given that, it might be replaced with something COMPLETELY different, removing both the +end components and the +def components from stalker reach. -
Quote:DAMMIT! I'm sorry, Bill! My forty year-old memory is not what it used to be.Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
*cough*
>.> -
Quote:I usually just skim the Stalker forums these days, but I have to ask: does a blaster use a sniper attack in an attack chain?Originally Posted by Test_Rat
I don't think i can find a situation where my KM would do more damage over time including AS in the attack chain. Now if you are playing Elec melee or spines, I am sure you could just barely find a boost (if you aren't interruped).
Of course not. That would be stupid, and would lower the dps considerably.
So why in hell are you talking about AS being useless because it can't be used in an attack chain that ought to consist of some or all of the other seven attacks from your primary?
AS is not - and was never intended to be - a dps tool. It's useful in the same way that Sniper Attacks are useful to blasters; a subject which can be debated.
But don't go fitting square pegs in round holes by comparing a melee sniper attack to any attacks that are useful to dps attack chains. -
Quote:Gonna beg to differ. So long as you have a workable attack chain in human form, you're fine. For example, if you could find the recharge to somehow chain Gleaming Blast, Incandescant Strike and Radiant Strike, I don't care how many other human attacks you have that may or may not be slotted. If you can fight effectively in all three forms then you're a triformer.Originally Posted by Pinkpup
All your human attacks - Find the slots for them, or you're not a tri-form. Having only the one default slot in any human attacks should get you kicked out the Tri-Form club.
Although this build is Triform in name only, IMHO. In practice it looks very dual-form Nova/Dwarf.
To what end? Roughly 15% resistance to energy and negative energy? So what? If you're not using it for set mules (and the OP is) then one slot is MORE than sufficient.Quote:Incandescence - I would say at least one more slot on a power that carries over to all your forms.
And I'm not completely sure that it carries over into forms just because it's an auto power.
That's debatable. About the only use the stealth proc has in Nova is to allow it to get closer to a spawn without being detected, since there's no way to self-stack it with another stealth power for true invisibility. Range/Damage HO's in the nova attacks achieve the same thing that a stealth IO in Nova would.Quote:Bright Nova - the Fly -stealth proc works great here.
The performance shifter proc is better in Stamina, since Stamina now carries over into forms as well. I have one in both on my build, but since the OP is going for a set bonus in Dwarf (and Dwarf is maxx'd out for resistance to boot) I'd say the OP's slotting on those powers is fine.Quote:White Dwarf - if you plan on being a dwarf alot, put your Pref-Shifter proc there.
UNLESS the OP is going for set bonuses, which I do believe is the case.Quote:Nova/Dwarf attacks - far, far overslotted for a tri-form. On mine, I think its 3/3/4/4 on nova and 3/4/4/3 on dwarf. Look into Hami IOs in the first two attack powers on Nova, its pricey but worth it.
You seem to think the OP is going for a pure triform build, and I don't think this is so. Rather, It looks to me like what [EDIT: Memphis Bill (sheesh, my memory!)] referred to in his guide as "the inhuman build," or one that relies on just nova and dwarf. If that's the case, then the OP's build makes perfect sense (with some tweaking, given my previous post in this thread). -
You've invested in all three human form shields, leading me to believe that you intend to spend a bit of time in human form.
You've slotted several of the attacks like RS, IS and SF, but you didn't slot Gleaming Blast. Nor did you even take attacks like Luminous Detonation and Dawn Strike. You also didn't take Light Form.
WHICH leads me to believe that you don't, after all, intend to spend all that much time in human form. I hope. Because you're going to be slaughtered if you do. I've been face-planted through capped resistance because I didn't have enough of an attack chain to take my foes down first. Your attack chain in human form is going to be miserable.
Therefore I'm going to assume you slotted those human form attacks for the defense bonuses, and took the shields for the same reason.
That being the case, I'd remove Thermal and Quantum Shields from your build and put the three Aegis from Quantum Shield in Incandescance. Take the extra slot that you gain from the removal of Thermal Shield and put it in Shining Shield. Put the KB protection IO that used to be in Incandescance in it. Next, remove that last slot from Photon Seekers. That defense bonus from Edict of the Master is for your pets only, and your pets aren't meant to survive for very long.
You'd be far better served to put that slot in your Shining Shield and fill it with the Steadfast Protection Unique that you stripped out of Thermal Shield.
What to do with those two power slots now? Take Grant Invisibility (for the teaming utility) and Invisibility and put LotG recharge speed IO's in them.
This will help your Forms' attack chains and greatly increase your survivability by increasing your kill speed. The forms are the life-blood of this build. A Nova that can soft-cap with two small purples? Yes, please!
Stay out of human form as much as possible on this build, and you should be quite happy. -
Quote:Although might I just say that Hugh Jackman had the best. cameo. ever. in this movie?Originally Posted by Arcanaville
That still projects out to only about $140 million, but that's not bad for an X-Men relaunch without Patrick Stewart, Ian McKellan, or Hugh Jackman (more or less).
-
Bah - I'm hoping it's not just a regurgitated rikti invasion. See those harnesses the kids are wearing? And what about the fact that - even though we as humans imagine our creations in our own image - these six-legged aliens have bipedal mechas?
Because they used to be humans. Kind of obvious, actually. Whether from a future time (their own children from the future, I'm sure) or another dimension (REALLY hope not) or from some heinous super-secret government experiment on the dark side of the moon (insert any other exotic locale), I'm fairly certain we're going to have Noah Wylie on one side pondering the morality of murdering beings that are likely human on the inside and on the other side we'll have his commanding officer going full-on bloodlust and wanting to kill them all anyway.
I also wouldn't be surprised in the least to see some of the skitters "remember" their human past and jump over on the side of the resistance to try and reconcile the two in some sort of brokered peace, so that from week to week you never know which side to root for or who the bad guys are.
And I'll be annoyed. -
Quote:Ack! I knew better than that, too! Laugh is not a word I would use for my reaction.Originally Posted by Microcosm
Joe, you're gonna laugh when you realize what you did. You are taking the damage value of Smite with IO's in it for your base value instead of the actual base value of the power. Smite with the IO's in that build and just the 60% from dark sustenance is coming out to 189.4. Everything from there on just magnifies the discrepancy. If I count the value with IO's as the base damage, adding 60% to it gives me the number you had.
To clarify for those who don't know, damage buffs work off of your base damage value, not after enhancements/other buffs are added. Joe is just having a sleepy moment ;D
Sigh. Alright - I'll fix as I get time. Thanks for catching that.
And here we have the perfect example of why Smiling Joe should not do spreadsheets at 2 in the morning after working all day. I have no idea where that 50.72 comes from either. I either mistyped or looked at something else. Ugh. It all looks the same when you're tired.Quote:The recharge+activation of Sunless mire on that build is 37.608; not sure where the 50.72 you have is coming from. Your equation should end up (30/35.608)*.3375=.28
Edit: And actually, for Sunless mire with forms, you should add in the form shift animation with recharge/activation so... (30/37.825)*.3375=.27 -
Quote:Dangit! Lemme go back and check...Originally Posted by Microcosm
Hmmm. Loaded the build you're using in mids, toggled on Human mire with three, Dark sustenance with 3, and Dwarf Mire with 6, and I'm not getting the damage numbers for the Dwarf attacks listed.
EDIT - Okay, here's what I did. Let's take Black Dwarf Smite for an example. In Mids, it does 145.3 points of damage.
Okay add 60% damage for dark sustenance and you've got 232.48, right?
Now we weight it for Sunless Mire. What I mean by weighting it is taking a sampling of the power's damage over a period of time when Sunless Mire is up and not up. To find its uptime, I took its duration of 30 seconds, divided that by its recharge and multiplied that result by the damage buff from three enemies (33.75%)
(30/50.72)*.3375=.199
...or a 20% average overall damage boost. Add that to the damage total and you've got 278.9 damage.
Am I doing this right so far?
Because I could be wrong. Wouldn't surprise me.
ANYWAY, let's look at that dwarf attack chain, which begins with Black Dwarf Mire. BDM gives an 11.25% boost to damage for every enemy hit that lasts for ten seconds. As the attack chain is 6.4 seconds long, the first mire buff will be active when the second one begins, and will last up until the last attack activates, or just long enough to apply the boost before expiring.
So add a 22.5% damage boost to that 278.9 damage and you've got 341.75 points of damage which is well past the 400% damage cap, so the power caps out at 293.6.
Now the damage cap, according to Paragon Wiki, includes 100% for the power's unenhanced damage, and then whatever enhancement is put in the slots. So before the warshade was teamed or mired the power was sitting at 191.99% damage. Add in 33.75% buff from sunless mire, 22.5% buff from a double dwarf mire and a 60% inherent buff and boom. You're over the cap.
Unless, of course, I'm doing that wrong. In which case: boom. Joe is wrong.
-
Quote:Originally Posted by _Dawun_
Would there be a problem if the Dev's swapped a portion of the +dmg bonus from the inherent and in order to add more damage to Kheldian powers across the board?
They could do a fix similar to what was done for dominators instead of defenders. Dominators had the extra damage from domination removed and added to their powers.
I don't want our damage buff removed completely, but the Devs could cut our 20% dmg buff by 5-10% and add more damage to all powers to balance this loss. We would have more consistent damage instead of allowing random players to sway our inherent boost from 0-140%. We wouldn't need 3 team members of a specific type to break even with other damage dealers and it would give us better damage while soloing.
yup! I'd take me some of that. -
So I spent some spare time last night working on my Peacebringer's
ULTIMATE SPREADSHEET OF DOOOOM!!!
...because for some reason I'm masochistic and can't get enough spreadsheets, and I got to the point where I was trying to figure my Reactive Total Radial Conversion's average contribution to my dps. It got kind of complicated, because (A) it's a 75% chance proc for moderate fire damage, (B) it's a DoT, and (C) the in-game numbers for the power are apparently "Enables Reactive Total Radial Conversion."
Damn. Well, okay I'll be the first to admit I know almost nothing about the specifics of incarnate powers. I've run just enough trials to unlock the judgement and interface slots up to the third tier (void and reactive) and have been too busy to follow the details on the forums.
SOOO I looked up Proc Damage in Paragon Wiki and came up with a figure of 71.75 points of damage per non-purple damage proc, which - when divided by four (for the four tics of damage) meshed with my in-game combat logs.
Great. So now how to express this in dps terms? I've got a 75% chance per attack of a cascading damage tic that can stack. I think. I don't know.
At any rate, if it can stack, here's the formula I came up with:
(Max Possible Procs*damage tics)/Total Arcanatime Of Chain)*(chance to proc*total proc damage/damage tics)
For example, my Dwarf has a five attack chain of Flare-Strike-Smite-Strike-Smite that lasts 8.84 seconds (with a .26 second pause between the last two attacks). So that's five possible procs of four damage tics each. Plugging that into the first part of the equation I've got:
(5*4)/8.84
Which of course comes out to about 2.26. Read that as two simultaneous tics of damage per attack with a third appearing every fourth attack, provided the procs all go off.
For the damage end, I plugged in the chance to proc against the 71 points of damage thusly:
(.75*71/4) Which comes out to 13.31 (coming in somewhat below the tic damage shown in my combat logs).
With two tics of damage happening per attack, that comes out to 26.62 points of average proc damage per attack, which might be a little high.
Question one: Does the bloody thing even stack this way, or have I just wrapped my head around another pointless math exercise?
Question two: Is my head wrapped the right way? Did I get the math right? -
Quote:That's because the dwarf has enough recharge in its mire to maintain a consistent double mire buff. I didn't see anywhere that it doesn't stack with itself, but I could be wrong on that. And don't forget three fluffies contributing damage.Originally Posted by Microcosm
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?
-
Quote:I'm coming off of 21 straight days at work, so I might be a little bleary-eyed. I'm also not the best at attack chains.Originally Posted by Microcosm
Your Warshade Human ST chain appears to be using Grav Well>Grav Snare*3 without including the recharge time you will need to wait for Grav Snare to recharge between uses. (If I am reading it right).
You could fix this by using Grav Well>Grav Snare>Ebon Eye>Grav Snare, for a minor loss in dps I think.
If I am totally off here, disregard; spreadsheets are not my thing.
The dps on page one is assuming three fluffies are out. I have a second page for attack chains for fluffies that assumes they cycle through attacks as they recharge (in other words, they couldn't care less about optimizing their dps)Quote:Edit: Question, is your Fluffy dps per fluffy or per average number of fluffies you could keep out? Looks like it's for ~3 fluffies.
I'll adjust accordingly as I get time. And I'll have to remember that attack chain for my own useQuote:Edit2: Your WS Nova ST chain would be better as Blast>Emanation>Blast>Detonation, which does ~133 dps from your spreadsheet, as opposed to the 128 you currently have. It also allows for the whole chain to recharge in time; as you have it, Detonation does not have time enough to recharge. 
!
Originally, on the SO spreadsheet for warshades I used one target as the single target dps (to illustrate a Warshade's effectiveness against a hard target) and what I thought a rather conservative 3 targets for the mire when AOE damage potential was taken into account.Quote:Edit3: How many enemies are you counting as having mired for Dwarf's single target chain?
For this spreadsheet, however, it takes teammates into account, and so I assumed three targets hit by the mire across the board (both dwarf and human)
At least, I hope I remembered to change the figures in all places. -
Devouring Earth mutations would be the most thematic PEAT's IMHO.
Something harnessing the power of Hamidon. -
Quote:Yes, and apparently I needed it, because somehow or another I missed like five posts up there! o.OOriginally Posted by Redlynne
Did you ever find your coffee Joe?
I like the suggestion. Plugging the recharge and damage into my IO'd Peacebringer Spreadsheet of DOOOM, it looks like - with the recharge bonuses and slotting that my character has, Photon Seekers would recharge in 6.8 seconds, spawning one pet per summon that would do 177.6 points of damage upon exploding to all within a 10 foot radius.Quote:Note to Smiling_Joe: Think changing Photon Seekers like this would help go a long way towards closing the DPS gap between Photon Seekers and Extracted Essence(s)?
Due to the life of the pet being 60 seconds, the most I can have out at a time is limited by recharge+animation time, which at a 6.8 second recharge and an Arcana-time animation of 2.244 seconds comes out to six photon seekers. After the sixth one is summoned, you've got around 5 seconds before the first one expires.
In practice, you'd likely never stand around summoning that many, but IF you did (like in preparation for an av battle or something) you'd do a burst of just under 1200 points of damage.
A far more efficient way of using the power would then be summoning one during combat on the fly whenever the power recharged - sort of like toe-bombing trip-mines. If you did this, then you'd bring up human form solo dps to around 160.3, counting the weighted burst damage potential. By comparison, a solo warshade with a well IO'd build can put out *around* 208 dps, mainly due to the fact that the build I used for the numbers can have three essences blasting at a time fairly regularly.
Is that enough of a damage increase for Peacebringers? IMHO yes, it is. I would happily adjust my playstyle to accommodate this change, and it comes with none of the caveats that Warshades have to remember to maximize the damage potential of their pets (like keeping them alive, for example)
Is it over powered? Honestly, the only way I could see this being overpowered was by summoning massive amounts of seekers for one big burst of damage. A thousand points of damage is a massive burst, but it's not going to be killing that elite boss or AV. It's not even going to kill a boss. And you have to stand around for a minute summoning seekers.
So no, it wouldn't be overpowered, IMO.
Good suggestion. Sorry I didn't see it before now. -
Quote:RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!! Hiss! Swipe!Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Ugh. Spreadsheets.
*holds up a cross made out of paintbrushes* Back, evil formulae! Get thee back to thy numerical Hell, ere I RP at thee!
-
Awesome. Thanks!
-
I've noticed that my judgement incarnate power is affected by the musculature very rare alpha that I have slotted. Is it affected by build up and - more importantly to me - our inherent?
Anybody checked that yet? -
Okay, I know this thread has gotten more than a little sidetracked, but - as promised - I've done an analysis of what IO'd kheldians can do on a team. Without further ado here's the links:
Peacebringer with IO's and Cosmic Balance
Warshade with IO's and Cosmic Balance
The Peacebringer: The build is in yellow, as are the numbers for cosmic balance. Look for them in the upper right of the first page. The build is my own, which is hardly optimal. It could be better in so many ways, but I tend to grow my heroes as they level, so I've never actually done any work with him in Mids (looking at it now, I need to). Meh, it is what it is. It works for my purposes here.
The Warshade: Again, look for the yellow squares in the upper right of page one for build and Dark Sustenance. As far as the build goes, I didn't have time to put together a build (and wouldn't really know where to start) so I did the unethical thing and "borrowed" one from the forums. I just went down the thread list until I found a triform build that looked "good enough" and had been given some feedback.
Izuma, if you're hanging around the forums today, I apologize in advance for using your build without your permission. In my defense, it was there. Looks like a good one.
::thumbs up::
So here are the relevant numbers:
PEACEBRINGERS
Single Target:
Human damage potential (expressed in dps): 192.23
Nova damage potential (expressed in dps): 171
Dwarf damage potential (expressed in dps): 162
AoE:
Human damage potential (expressed in dps): 311.69
Nova damage potential (expressed in dps): 352
Dwarf damage potential (expressed in dps): 251
Self Mitigation
Human Average Survivable incoming DPS: 114
Nova Average Survivable incoming DPS: 150
Dwarf Average Survivable incoming DPS: 628.5
WARSHADES
Single Target:
Human damage potential (expressed in dps): 255.01
Nova damage potential (expressed in dps): 272.01
Dwarf damage potential (expressed in dps): 291.01
AoE:
Human damage potential (expressed in dps): 364.2
Nova damage potential (expressed in dps): 547.2
Dwarf damage potential (expressed in dps): 469.2
Self Mitigation
Human Max Survivable incoming DPS (one corpse): 164
Nova Max Survivable incoming DPS (one corpse): 176
Dwarf Max Survivable incoming DPS (one corpse): 785
Human Max Survivable incoming DPS (ten corpses): 1842
Nova Max Survivable incoming DPS (ten corpses): 1842
Dwarf Max Survivable incoming DPS (ten corpses): 2332
As always, a big ol' caveat applies to the AoE numbers, as they are more a reflection of the total damage done to an entire spawn. Think of it this way: if a spawn is one large critter with the combined hit points of all the mobs, the AoE numbers would be your dps against that theoretical critter.
Oh, and credit once again to Dechs Kaison's mitigation sheets. Saved me about half the work.
Anyway, the big thing to realize here is that both builds are smacking the damage cap in various places. Both novas have hit the damage cap, and the black dwarf is doubling the bonus on its mire, so it also hits the cap. White dwarf is close to the cap, and some PB human powers are at the cap.
My conlcusion? IO'd Kheldians do a little on a team than SO'd Kheldians. By a figure of about 20 dps for Peacebringers, and less so for Warshades. IN fact, the number on the dark nova's dps in the first post is wrong, because it doesn't take the damage cap into effect.
So the difference between these two IO'd builds (and it should be noted that the warshade build is just three seconds shy of perma-hasten) and Plasma's gold-standard SO builds that I used in earlier analyses is *roughly* 20dps. Whether that's worth the investment or not - and for that matter whether these IO builds are worthy or not - I'll leave up to everyone else to decide.
I would, however, like to encourage everyone to download the spreadsheets and play with them. Maybe someone can come up with higher numbers than I have. Or find my mistakes (come on, you know I made some). -
Quote:No, they're not completely accurate, nor do they take into account the changes to brute fury or any new attack sets or IO's.Originally Posted by Elegost
While it may not be applicable anymore in this discussion, I think it's worth noting that the "Results are in take 2" thread has very dated material, and shouldn't be taken as completely accurate (anymore). Billz requested the thread be unstickied almost a year ago because of people misrepresenting his data (and other related shenanigans), so I don't want the same mistake to happen over here in Kheldian land :]
HOWEVER, this thread is not - and has never been - about kheldians out-damaging scrappers. That would be stupid. Instead, this thread is about what Kheldians CAN do with their inherent.
The whole point of bringing those threads up in the first place was to give a mean by which *respectable* damage can be determined, and ONLY for that purpose. If I were, for example, to state that a Peacebringer can reach 173 dps with just three buffers on the team it likely wouldn't mean a whole hell of a lot to someone who doesn't know how much dps a Peacebringer can dish out ordinarily. Without a general number to compare with, someone could just as easily say, "Big deal. Other archetypes can do even better." without really knowing what other archetypes can or cannot do.
But if it's going to distract from any discussion of our inherent I'll happily remove the link from the OP. Sure, I might have been a bit hyperbolic in the op when I said warshades could exceed scrapper dps (if nothing else, the damage cap says otherwise), but I don't think it's misrepresenting BillZ's numbers to say that kheldians can achieve a level of damage when teamed that roughly compares with the damage output that scrappers can achieve. The fact that I used those specific numbers was due more out of a lack of time on my part to create a scrapper analysis spreadsheet than anything else.
But if you'd like to come up with a similar analysis for scrappers, feel free to download the spreadsheets provided and roll one right up - or just give me the best scrapper dps chain you've got and the build required to achieve it - I'll be more than happy to measure against it. I'm flexible.
Or maybe we could all agree that the dps figures in the OP are crazy good?