SingStar

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Give all the zones the destructable stuff like the Safeguards have for a start

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Yeah, that wouldn't lag the servers out at all, would it?

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I recently found a good old arcade game at the local run-down pub (you know the one with the ball you guide by rolling an actual ball, can't remember the name for some reason)

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Marble Madness? Brilliant game... Have a version on my PDA which uses the accelerometer to control it. Huge fun!

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Indeed! Innovative, different! I've found that I thorougly enjoy several Android games just because the need to be...different! In that way I mess the good old days. But there's not much special about CoX that way: Click - power, click - power. It does what it does very well, mind you, but there's nothing special about it. And compared to other MMOs I consider it to be small when it comes to content. In light of that, any inventive news would be good and help sales.

The truth is, you don't buy a great, ugly looking, old game when there's a shiny new one out there. You may return to one, but you wouldn't buy it if you hadn't already played it. Although I found doom more fun than quake, I'd still rather buy a full-price new FPS for my PC than get a cheap, even free doom-clone for my android phone.

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Have people never gone back and played old games on things like the PS1, gameboy, that sorta thing?
Graphics, when it relaly, really comes down to it, doesnt matter. A game is defined by the gameplay. We have a lot of games that come out these days that have 'cutting edge' graphics...but someone kinda forgot about the gameplay.

I still have to play CoX on minimum settings. I've never seen the game at full potential. And I still like it, because it plays well.

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I hesitated to reply on this. I mean, I do love some old C=64 games even to this date, my niece's into a Mario period (Her parents can't get her to sleep, she just get's up after a few minutes and starts playing again) and the Wii has surely shown that GFX isn't everything. I recently found a good old arcade game at the local run-down pub (you know the one with the ball you guide by rolling an actual ball, can't remember the name for some reason) and I still have a go at Tetris, not to mention how fed up I am with all the generic 3D FPS shooters with monsters/aliens/nazis...

..but on the other hand, whenever I try another "normal" game on my PS3 or PC I'm totally blown away by how good they look, how responsive they are and how immersive they are. I usually play them for hours and when I stop for the day(night) the endorfines are pumping, I'm happy.

I usually don't give them a second go, the next day I'm back to CoX, "grinding" because it makes me feel I'm "getting something" for my effort since it's an MMO. The thing is, I'm never happy after a CoX session anymore. I enjoy the time, chatting with the team on Skype, but even after a well run 43 minute SF/TF I feel... nothing..

...back again next evening with some friends I fire up the PS3 and have a go at even oldies like Burnout Paradise and I just love it instantly. Later on I fire up CoX again and it's the old pal, it's like going to work. You know what you're doing, you're good at it, it's a no brainer and feels necessary.

I guess I'm stabbing at more than just graphics with this post. On one hand I do agree, graphics isn't enough. On the other hand I'm also saying CoX isn't enough either and graphics does indeed matter. CoX looks good with everything on when you're not moving. ...and the engine needs an update anyway because it's not optimised for modern cards etc. WIth the basic stuff it has, it really, really shouldn't be that "laggy"

...also I really hate those terrible shadows and light f.x. clearly shown in Grandville plaza. I never go to Grandville anymore, unless really necessary. Can't stand it.

...about time!
I can't stand Grandville anymore, those horrible shadows make me sick!

Iphone! Humbug!
Android is the wai to go!

Getting my open beta CO code this week, and I'm going the other way, the more I see, the more interested I get!

Maybe I eventually indeed will leave this game!

The major question is: Will any future new content be for GR, or for CoX? Content meaning Story/TFs etc, not engine upgrades.

...and how long will it take us to get tired and fed up with the "new" content? How "New" will it be? When CoV came out there where some really new powersets and the MM was a new way of playing, and imho still the most interesting since different combinations definitely makes for deifferent game play, as for other ATs it makes little difference. (A blaster is a blaster is a blaster, with minor differences in game play compared to MM combinations)

If all we get are a few new zones to travel around in on our way to missions, generic missions with mostly old maps a few new powersets based on already existing stuff (malta gunslinger, cot demons) and one or two new Trials/T/SFs and the ability to swap sides, I can see a flood of whining on the new forum!

Of course we always have and always will demand more than we get, but as I suggested in the OP, we really should demand and expect something... special...
...and they'd better deliver!

Well, it also has to spill over to villains and they're not very inclined to sweep the streets. Also it's a risk, a sever may get toasted completely due to too many lvl 50s not bothering about lowbie zones, or a server being too busy with the MA. ...but it's sad that an empty zone is left alone by the rikti's. Some code of honour?

I do like the general idea of having more non-instanced action. The arcs where you spawn GMs are a good example. Back when I still played blueside, I frequently called for help to take down the bick clockie dude, not to mention the maltabot. More missions within the zone maps would be great fun.

Imagine sweeping down, healing a poor lvl 15 that's fighting outdoors to prevent a chemical terrorist attack. Other games have shown how they can spawn glowies etc for people that have a specific mission, while others can't even see it, making it possible to do outdoor missions whithin the world instead of in instanced maps. It's the one thing (except the gfx) I love about Lotro, running in solo into a cave, finding 4 other dudes fighting a big spider, smack it down with their help - and presto; you've made some new friends too.

...also, it's soo sad they've put all that tima and effort into making some really nice zones that we don't bother looking at, it's just a pain getting from one end to the other to get to an instanced....cave!

It would sure be a balance act. Failure to kick the paladin causing problems, forcing us to kick it's behind would quickly become somewhat boring. But LGTF is a good example, it makes a rikti raid spawn, but you don't have to care about it.

Villains doesn't have many "events" like heroes (fires, raves etc), but what does it matter when heroes doesn't respond anyway. Skyway is one of the emptiest zones in the game, and I've NEVER EVER seen anyone clean up Supa trolls (except me, I love tossing them 100 feet or more). ...simply because it doesn't matter. Very heroic of us to leave a zone overrun completely by big, strong, good looking lads!

Question: Will there still be a villain and a hero version/skin?

When RV was released I was rather thrilled because my actions really mattered. Yeah, in the other pvp zones I can do missions to nerf "the other side", but in RV the actual game (well, gfx) changed when I commandeered a pillbox. We don't see much of that in the game, and it's imho one of the weaker points. Whatever we do, it doesn't really matter. You could go clean out the Hollows, nothing would change, those trolls would just pop back.

So what could the devs do to make us feel we really affect the world we play in?
- More RV-style in regular zones. More kills = cleaner zone?
- Choises. In missions, when talking to contacts etc.
- not bother with the pvp, it's a dead duck, leave it be!
- more zone events that actually matters. When a S.C. building explodes it somehow regenereates, so what's the point in saving it?
- GMs that does nasty things. Ghost of Scrappy almost got it, smack him and the workers stop protesting at least. Could Lusca actually take down boats? She doesn't seem to be that bad now, just a bit lonely and misunderstood.
- LGTF has a point, spawns and invasion (makes me feel we failed though) Could TFs and SFs trigger more stuff (without annoying the playerbase)? Could an aborted/failed TF trigger something?

Do you have any more suggestions? How can the devs allow players to actually affect the world and get a feeling their actions really matter?

Well, at least that way there won't be minions auto+5 for PL'd and basically you could ditch the whole LK/SK/malf/mentor code.

Btw, I'm still amazed ppl keep debating this, like the energizer bunnies... It goes on and on and on and... well...

I just simply got tired of doing the same, very boring, thing over and over again. It was fun the first 10 times, and still is sort of fun 2-3 times a year on "new" alts.

The old raid, we all got together in the bowl, and at the end the GM showed up, making us feel we had worked to get him, no people running around madly all over the place. Nowadays, the actual mothership onslaught is way slower, more boring and way more annoying in every way. Some people don't even get to see the GM because a few brave men went in before any coordination and killed him off.

Old Mothership raid, like old hami, was just more fun... But I can't think of any reason (not even the extra storage space) to take down those pylons ever again. I guess I'll have to find other ways to have fun with the community, like going up lag hill repeatedly!

I'd rather see they implement rikti-raid style levels. That is all foes are your level inside MA and outside, or higher if you've set a higher diff setting.

That would also make it entertaining to roam Atlas/Mercy!

Still waiting for my bug hunter, so...

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If CoV failed as an expansion, it would probably be reasonable to state why it failed. For me CoV was about the best thing that happened to CoX, but I would like to hear why you think it failed
And if we know why CoV failed then we can define that rather vague "more".

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I agree, CoV was the best thing that ever happened. I rarely play hero-side. ...but it didn't sell very well, now did it? They never eally kept building on it, because the majority stayed true to heroes, even heroes-only. That is, sort of, a failure. I think they expected it to sell better, and it seems they finally gave up and gave it away to the rest of the people. I'm basically (censored) off every day because they don't bring us more villaineous content, but I understand it since, even with Villains free, people still remain "loyal" to the blue side.

That's because you "borrowed" so much inf from us all!

I was making a comparison about what we should be expecting (including the few hints we've had so far) and what the devs should expect that we as players expect from GR. Using CoV as comparison made sense, or so I thought, since it's the only "expansion" we've had.

Imho, CoV partially failed, so they should expect us to expect more from GR, not less!

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Fun facts:
To date, power customization for Primary and Secondary player powers has involved
1,241 individual powers.

which use use 1,620 FX scripts

which reference 5,144 particle scripts.

(Yes, those 1,241 powers are from just the powersets listed in the Issue 16 overview page.)

I'm still trying to nail down an exact date for when we started working on this, but so far the earliest reference I can find is from a document created in March of 2008. I know there were some meetings before that document was made, but I can't find the date or meeting notes from the initial "Lets do this!" meeting, which I would consider the official start of this massive undertaking.

Unofficially, I've been trying to figure out ways to do it since around Issue 11, but every idea involved new tech and a tremendous amount of data parsing...two things that simply would have never happened back then with the size of our team.

Obviously, we haven't been working 100% on this since we started. A bit here, a bit there...time taken for other Issues, bug fixes, booster packs, etc. But we've been working on it pretty focused for the last 6-8 months.


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Oh! Does anyone expect any serious bugs?

Well, even if you limit it to give you a non-flag choise of two missions within an arc (say you've done mission 1, and get to choose between 2:1 or 2:2 not really affecting mission 3) this would still be great. You could still get some really nice things done that was story-wise.

Even if you made some story branching it wouldn't be that complicated really. I think the database keeps track of all missions we've done anyway, at least all arcs (seen the starts in ouroboros?). It's still just one mission leading to another (or a selection of others).

As for the really interesting parts, one mission actually being affcted by what you did in another mission with all the flags that would require... Yeah it would be cool, but if we're gonna see any of it, I guess it's gonna be:

1. Choises of missions. (do 2.1 or 2.2 sort of)
2. Choises inside a mission

and #3. Choises in one mission affect coming missions will be quite far off.

But omg the game would be a completely different experience for us oldies even if we get just #1 or ¤2 and it's well implemented.

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Ah, most delectable... only 15 months more to go. Wonder who will last longer, me or the game.

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Well, let's face it... We might whine and moan, but unless (or even if) SW:ToR is released and kick behinds, we're /stuck no matter how much the game need /sync with the rest of the gaming world!

It will be interesting to see how they "translate" badges in GR, because I agree, villain accolades are somewhat "harder" - I rarely bother nowadays, except occational +hp +end ones. Like everything else, it's just a tad harder for villains!

As for debt pretty much gone (99 out of 100 deaths at least)... Well, It's just another grind/pl tool, just like MA, the soon-to-bee diff settings etc. I tell you, the devs WANTS us to grrriind! Yes, they dooo!

However it does encourage PuGs. Do you remember back in time when people just left the team without a word because they got some debt? TFs could be a nightmare in PUGs, especially if you had some blasters invited!

...on the other hand, I have a nice set of globals nowadays, and still prefer non-pugs. One or two "unknown" factors make it interesting and is a good way of getting to know players, but I stick to the "know at least four in the team" rule.

What I do miss, and few will agree, is some sort of punishment for lvl 50s. Once you're in a lvl 50 team, there's always a rez'er or two, or you can "make" awakens. Unless it's a team-whipe death is just a welcome "getting a drink" sort of break, almost welcome at times!

Well, even if it's just branshing quests and doesn't make in into the actual missions, even that would be great. Imagine TFs that aren't quite as dull. Where you get to make choises that make sense for the team you have. (Worst case, only one choise makes sense no matter what team you have, that would be useless).

Imagine if we also could get this into the MA even if we'd have to break the 5 mission limit and probably the 100k limit as well.

Personally I¨'m still hoping for something RV-style. The praetorian Earth fusing/melding with ours and we have to fight to save primal Earth or help to give the praetorian Earth an advantage. It's unlikely, but darn it would be cool!

That way we could have all story arcs, but added praetorian contacts. all zones would be there, but also as praetorian versions and it woudl actually feel like our actions mean something, that we affect the world we live in. Alas... that would be too cool I guess...

...and as for content. I just wanna play my 50s. Levelling up another 1 or 2 alts takes a month if I'm slow and relish the content... then what?

Well with my 8800 I still get those funky black textures and really weird shadows in RV. Shadows may be weird for all though, but it's embarassing when I show the game to people, especially when I tell them those black boxes has been there for way more than a year.

...my friends are never convinced the game's worth playing!