Riverdusk

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So why'd you start with a hobbit? And why did you choose to do that quest?

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So in otherwords, I should skip an entire race?

If we had an Archetype in the game (closest we have to races here) that always had boring missions compared to the other ATs, would you say that's bad by design?

I've never played the game. I've not found a good reason TO play it. Why bother spending 50 something dollars on a game that sounds like... well.. any other fantasy MMO out there?

I can get that for free, thank ya very much.

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Actually when I played it races seemed more akin to a combination of costume choice (look) and origin (starting missions). And actually we do have one origin here I know a lot of people say they skip because of its starting missions hero side. Science origin with its heavy vaazh presence.

Have to add, I recently ran the natural origin starting missions again for the first in a long long time and found it had been redone from what I remember and really neat.

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Was also in that Beta that had to do with certain magical rings. Lots of slow walking around and spawn camping were definite turnoffs. You forgot another one that really did it for me though. The lack of character options. There were only like 5 different "classes" and everyone of class X was an exact clone of each other. Not just in appearance, but in skill. You didn't even get to choose which skills as you leveled, they were all set for you. Zero choice. Say goodbye to having a bunch of alts, there would be no point. Alts are something I love about CoX.

It was quite a shock coming from a game like this where for example not only can one defender can be very different from another from having different primary/secondaries. But even defenders of the same primary/secondary can be pretty different in what skills they choose.

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You never got into dyeing and crafting of armor / weapons, did you? There is plenty of character diversity to be had if one is willing to use it.

I've already got my first set of dye stuff. All I need now is just one more item to start making dyes so I can have a unique looking character.

No different than here where if I want to set up a 2nd costume, I need to run a mission to do it.

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Actually - I consider it a little different. You visit Icon and do a mission to gain a second alternate costume. If I just want to 'dye' my armor/whatever in COH, I just visit Icon, and 'maybe' pay a fee (if I have no free tokens). No mission needed, no gathering items, no collecting/trading/whatever.

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And appearance wasn't even my main point although it was a secondary one. You don't have nearly the character costume generator there that you have here, not even close, even including "dyes" and "crafted items".

I was talking about the skills though mainly. Transport their skill "selection" over to this game would be like if every AT only had one primary and one secondary. Oh and no pool power choices available either. Lets just say that I didn't find it a game where I could ever imagine something like the "hero planners" we have would ever even be of use. It is too simple a system to even need one. That may appeal to some, personally I like complex character creation systems.

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Ok, since you want facts...here are some for ya.


1. Well over half of all MMO players worldwide are playing on a server with open non-consensual PvP.

2. Well over 90% of all MMO players are playing a game that allows PvP.

3. There are more players playing pure PvP games (including FPS and RTS games) than all MMO's combined.

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Can you site the source of these 'facts'?

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Yep, still no sources, but I can believe them though. The key word is "worldwide" The U.S. MMORPG market is very different than a lot of the asian markets in what sells. Just another reason like I said you need different "versions" to appeal to different markets.

Nice post full of statements passed as facts that have no real support. Everything I've ever read and seen shows that PvE is the one that pays the bills for most MMORPG's. Nothing you presented I see proves otherwise. Nothing wrong with a lot of your opinions and you are entitled to thinking PvP is the only fun thing in the world, but saying PvE'ers are second class and nothing but a monetary drain on games? Who's trying to drive who away here again?

PvP doesn't "keep people around" and can get just as repetitive as PvE, unless you are into PvP and that's what you enjoy. Just like some (like me) are still here after 3 years and are kept around by PvE, friends, alts, badges, possibly soon inventions, and teaming in general.

Others have already pointed out the common internet forum fallacy of "all my friends believe <X>, so the vast majority must believe <x>! By the way, almost everyone I know that I play with hates PvP and yet are still around. There we go. I can also post my own funny anecdotes about the few times I've been on a PuG team where the leader actually selected a PvE mission just even merely inside a PvP zone. At least 2 or 3 out of the 8 will outright say, "I'm not going there", another 2 or 3 will just quit without a word. This isn't even PvP'ing, but even just stepping into the zone briefly and it gets that kind of reaction every time I've seen it.

On the same principle, nice job posting this in the PvP forum, a real shocker most here agree with it. Only reason I even saw it was because it is now in the dev digest.

On Castle's post, I had no problem understanding the auction houses as a minor form of "economic" pvp. Not sure why it was met with such derision. I found the reaction to it here interesting.

Lastly, I'm all for games having both PvE and PvP content. The more subscribers a game can get the better. The balancing act is in trying to get both without alienating one or the other. It is why I'm always for multiple servers with different rulesets. For example, you could have one where you could level up through PvP only if you wanted, giving exp for it. Yes, it can create headaches for the devs, but if a game wants to appeal to the widest audience I think that's where it has to go. Just like having multiple cable channels to watch, each appeals to its own audience.

Was also in that Beta that had to do with certain magical rings. Lots of slow walking around and spawn camping were definite turnoffs. You forgot another one that really did it for me though. The lack of character options. There were only like 5 different "classes" and everyone of class X was an exact clone of each other. Not just in appearance, but in skill. You didn't even get to choose which skills as you leveled, they were all set for you. Zero choice. Say goodbye to having a bunch of alts, there would be no point. Alts are something I love about CoX.

It was quite a shock coming from a game like this where for example not only can one defender can be very different from another from having different primary/secondaries. But even defenders of the same primary/secondary can be pretty different in what skills they choose.

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Thing is, fire/fire isn't a particularly uber build. It's nifty, but there are far better brute builds. Nerfing fire/fire won't do much good to prevent this kind of thing, that's Ultimus' point.

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By definition, the process of changing every build that can solo AVs(or the temp powers involved) would prevent soloing AVs, if a sufficient adjustment is made.

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Yeah, but that's a lot more work in fixes than enforcing rarity on recipes by limiting drop rates of TFs and Trials.

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Or just nerfing shivans. I'd waiger what Ultimus does can be done with many brute and scrapper combos at least. He's done it with at least one tank build and thinks he could do it with his illusion controller. It's much easier to limit a rare drop to one per TF per day (NOT to one TF a day) or nerf shivans to bosses. Maybe 10 boss summons instead of 5 EB summons or something...

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Except Castle already said they weren't planning on nerfing Shivans.

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Plans can easily change.

I've already been "strongly encouraged" before to go get a shivan by TF team leaders. As one who doesn't like to use the things, that is bothersome to me. So, call me a nerfherder, I'm all for Shivans being nerfed.

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Control- Here, we start to see the issue. Oblivion, probably one of the key console/PC crossovers last year shows how a very simple controller system can lead to complex gameplay- and translate OK over to a PC.

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Wow, that was a horrible example to use. It was plain to everyone that Oblivion's UI was made for console first and foremost. It was terribly limiting on the PC compared to even ancient PC games. A ton of the very first mods out there were fixes to that horrible interface.

That is it available to console and that it is in the Marvel universe are two big potential pitfalls to me. Notwithstanding that I always preferred DC's world anyway, my first preference is always to a brand new world the devs can pour their own souls into. Trying to adapt a game system to any existing universe always leads to "compromises." You add "game world purists" vs. "gamers there just wanting to play a fun game" to the already existing competing factions of players. Obviously I'm of the latter, just make it fun, I don't care if it violates some archaic "marvel law". Prime example of this battle I've seen a lot on another MMORPG currently in development, Lord of the Rings Online.

I'm wary but willing to try it of course. I also am not that worried about CoX though, it should be around and strong at least a couple more years, I have no doubt.

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I have played:
Gemstone III

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Wow. That brings back some memories. I had forgotten that game even existed :P

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I couldn't if I tried. I think to how much richer I'd be today if it wasn't for that game. I played it before it went to AOL, on GEnie it was $6 an hour, and I played a lot. I had some painful credit card bills.

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I would have picked PvE Combat if that was an option, which it should have been IMO.

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First thing I thought as well. How fun the PvE combat is always first consideration to me. It is why I quit EQ within the first month it was released. "You go up and hit autoattack and then just watch to see what happens, this is interesting how?"

So, I choose specific mob groups, guess that is kind of close as they each have different combat strategies. I very much enjoy seeing new enemies and learning both how to best combat them and about their history.

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Yes, but Stone also is widely resisted and has a high end cost. It gives up some effectiveness for some "controllerish aspects".

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Brutes don't really have to slot for damage if they do not want to though. So it's possible to slot fault (and tremor) to make them available often and have minimal end cost. Resistance isn't the point. The point was that basically a Stone/* brute can build to essentially have a built-in ice slick. My stone Brute does way more damage than my */psi, even with PSW.

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Also control can be detrimental to a brute since that group that he just used it on is now not attacking, and not building his fury.

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this is so far from what actually occurs in a practical setting that it's a shame people believe this. I spam Fault/Tremor and have mudpots slotted with slows. You jump into enough mobs and your fury bar is pegged at 80% within a few moments.

I like the suggestion that people who like playing the melee/control style try a stone/* brute. Aside from the aoe knocks, Seismic Smash will hold a boss in one shot. It's a fun, fun set - and I think people would agree that it's closer to what a dom is supposed to play like than some dom sets.

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Yea, I forgot to even mention stone/ brute also gets a single target hold (+ high damage) in seismic smash. Nice catch.

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We've got a nice tweak to the Domination ability coming down the pipe (it will crank up your Mez resistance while it is active), and are currently data-mining PvP to see what effect our last set of tweaks to the AT have had.

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Actually, I'd prefer to have some good mez protection when NOT in Domination mode, and have it go away in Domination mode.

The real issue is the lackluster abilities outside of Domination, which is most of the time. I think that's what turns most players off the archetype. It's easy to give up on dominators by the late teens when you're doing mediocre damage most of the time with high endurance costs. Beefing up Domination won't make the archetype any more attractive, since Domination is already very nifty.

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I'd second this idea. Seems like it would hopefully appeal to the devs idea of risk vs. reward still too. Make doms safer outside of domination, but to become more powerful in our holding and damage with domination activated, we get the drawback of becoming "vulnerable" to mezzing.

Edit: Oh well, from Castle's posts sounds like the other way is already a done thing.

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What of single holds and soft control?
You don't need a dom for that either. Many other ATs have single holds. Ice or Dark corruptors. Mastermind pets. Even brutes and stackers can stun opponents. Same for soft control. Is it normal that a /dark brute with oppressive gloom offers a more reliable control then a dom? Or a /dark MM with Fearsome Stare? How about Siren's Call from Sonic primary?

As a dominator, there are many situations where my teamates just plain outdid me when it came to controlling mobs.



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Yep, people here come up with corrupters a lot who can control pretty well compared to a dom. However, brutes are forgotten and some of them can control pretty darn well too. you want an awesome melee "controller" type try stone/dark brute. Fault: An 8 second base AoE disorient against minions with a 50% chance to "crit" and affect a lieutenant, a knockdown, and a 20 second recharge so with the right slotting can be pretty much permanant.

Stack fault with Oppressive Gloom's toggle disorient and you'll have up to bosses disoriented (and knocked down a lot of the time), in an AoE, pretty much all the time and done faster than a dom can usually pull off.

Combine that with a brute's defense and damage... I suggest those that want to play a "melee" dom would probably do better with something like that.

Looks like they fixed the dark armor sounds for the 5/31 patch. A quick test just now and at least the beginning armor's sound fx faded. Thank you devs.

Neither the breakage or the fix ever addressed in the patch notes though, funny that.

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Haven't tried a Dark Stalker yet, but as someone who's main is a lvl 50 D/D scrapper, I want my DA sounds back! I never found them annoying, just incredibly unique.

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You must not do much vacuuming around the house if you find DA's sound unique and unfamilar to you.

I find it strange that I haven't seen a Dev confirm that this is a bug. A little thing like force field's color changing from greenish to purplish is immediatly confirmed and fixed in a heartbeat, but this is ignored despite many posts and I'm sure many bug reports (including my own).

I just want to know if this is going to be fixed or if the sounds not going away is a new "feature." If the latter then I'll know to look for another powerset to play and I can move on.

Charged brawl does have a punch sound to it so not sure why people are saying none of them have it. I clearly hear it when I hit along with the electrical sound. When you miss you only get the electric part.

Havoc punch and jacobs ladder however yes don't have any smack to them.

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Well, one thing I have to mention is that my on my Dark Armor brute the SOUND EFFECTS DO NOT FADE AWAY anymore. I assume it's the same for the other dark armor sets.

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Yes, first thing I noticed as well. Grrr, please please fix this. Was all set to play elec/dark armor brute but if the toggle sound effects go back to not fading away I will not be playing the set.

Well, looking at these very minor improvements I can't say Doms status as the least popular AT is in any jeopardy.

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It's people like you who chased Geko, Mr. Loose Lips on the Numbers, off these boards.

Keep that in mind next time you bemoan the numbers being unpublished.

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The other thing I wanted to say about that, is that I don't buy when developers claim that us mean posters hurt their feeling and make them not want to talk with us. The developers have the control. Their input has much more force than any poster. I'm sorry but suck it up. This is the only service industry where client service is thought to be optional.

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Also one of the few where if they did everything their clients wanted them to do, they'd destroy their own product. Or go insane trying to code 50,000 versions of the same game in order to satisfy everyone's individual whims.

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And while we're on the subject of Wardens...

What's up with the PBAoE damage toggle (Quills?) of Spines Wardens continuing to run after their held/disoriented/etc.?



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I think all Longbow powers that are toggles for us, are inherents for them. I know holding them doesn't turn off their leadership toggles either, which kills my dom being able to confuse them or any of their minions.

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I fail to see what makes Rikti worth so much, sissy aliens

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Possibly the fact that they are abolutely thick with stun and knockdown effects from minions up to bosses, they have mobs that see through any stealth in the game, they deal energy damage which is poorly resisted, and their melee damage is some of the highest in the game - and it is significantly composed of energy damage.

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Yep, and another perfect example. One of the toughest enemies for my controller and dom? Rikti drones. See through stealth, lots of stun and knockdown, and have inherent defense bonus making them very hard to hit. And often times they come in absolutely huge packs.

But for my melees? They are easy as pie.

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The mag 100 Stun is being replaced with a more standard stun (duration based, normal magnitude.)

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Thank you very much.

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Yeah, great for the melees, worse for those without status protection.

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I have always found it interesting that the few mobs that prove difficult for melees, they complain about them and get them adjusted. (Sappers and now this specific Longbow). The kind of mobs by the way that actually make something like a controller or dom feel useful. Having problems Mr. Melee? Here I'll hold that one for you, no problem anymore. At least they haven't touched Tsoo sorcs, my controllers/doms love them as well.

However, the reverse never seems to happen. I've (and others in a thread someone started) complained about specific ones that my corrupter/MM feels are way overpowered for their level (scrapyarder demolitionists in particular not too long ago) and it is met with deafening silience. The longbow that blow my dom away are the ones that run the inherent (not a toggle so holding them doesn't even shut the darn thing off) leadership toggle that makes the whole group virtually immune to my confuse and much tougher to hold. That power being an inherent, instead of a toggle that with some strategy could be taken out, seems broken to me, but does that get "adjusted?"

Just a curious double standard I've observed. Now awaiting the flames in response.

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Just to put the aoe acc penalty debate to rest.

I did check on CoH/CoV Character Builder and could find only 1 aoe in both the primary and secondary Corruptor set's that does have an acc penalty.

Fulcrum Shift has a -10% acc penalty

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I think you forgot Dark Pit. It has the same -20% acc that the controller AoE disorient powers have like flashfire. My own experience with the power confirms that to me.

You had probably already outleveled him, but had started on an arc at an earlier level. Once you start an arc you can finish it no matter what your level.

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'As I write this, I am glancing over my shoulder to my white board.

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Surprised no one has made plans to ninja raid Geko's office to see what else is on that board.

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[LIST][*]City of Villains will release on October 31, Halloween, barring any major remaining bugs.


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Ok I have a real problem with this part here. My pre-order says that the expected ship date is 11-9-05. That's not going to work for me. If the game is Out on Oct.31 and my game won't even ship till Nov.9th then I'm going to miss the 2 day advanced play; to say nothing of the fact that There would be no reason to pre-order the game. I'm already qualified for the 12+ mo. So I should get a beta slot and ok the bonus item would be kind of neat. But not so much so that I should miss the 2 day advanced play. Anyone have any thought here? I think Someone messed up. I would think I'd have my pre-ordered stuff well before the game goes live.

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the shipping dates given before the actual street dates were announced were nothing more than random guesses made by the gaming stores...in other words, you'll get the game when it comes out, like you expected, and if you don't you take that store to task for it...

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Yep, don't worry about any dates listed at this point. It is just going to be an estimate. The store was probably smart enough to know from experience to add an extra week or two beyond the date given to them at this point. Games almost never come out on time.