Radubadu

You're misinterpreting my point. I don't want CoX to do what other games are doing in terms of RMT (or anything really)... but the fact that these other games are doing it and are successful makes it plausible that it could work in CoX. Look at any other business and you will see very similar things... one company tries something risky, it works, other companies follow suit.

But before you jump to the conclusion of me saying it's plausible meaning that I want it to happen just stop and realize that I'm looking at it objectively rather than the frustrated point of view that you seem to have concerning RMT. I'm not saying you don't have a right to be frustrated but I think it keeps you from being objective.

There are three points of view concerning RMT... those that get angry or frustrated about it (you), those that have accepted it as an issue present in every MMO that will likely never go away and are indifferent about it (me) and those that use/support it (nobody that's going to admit it here). I used to be you on this... when I played WoW I would go out of my way to report every spam I got. I even went as far as to report the name of every toon corpse (about 20) that was used to spell out a specific website in orgrimmar (a high traffic area hordeside kinda like Atlas) and the next day they were back with different names. Eventually I gave up and just accepted the random emails and /tells and corpse spelling as part of the game, so when I came to see it in CoX it didn't matter to me and actually, I see it much less in CoX.

Anyway don't think I support RMT, I used to fight the fight all the time... I just gave up as it's pointless to get upset over it or to think that your reporting a name is going to make a huge impact. It's the same thing as fishbots in FFXI which I'm not going to go into detail about but anyone that played it knows exactly what I'm talking about.

Also, in the hypothetical situation that NCSoft pursues RMT I would assume that they would have the foresight to realize that they would need a separate marketplace for RMT servers.

Taunt is not necessary AV or not. But it definitely helps if you find yourself losing aggro.

So in stupid people (me) terms, it would make it so I could make one of the controller buttons function as a shift key?

I've already agreed that NCSoft supported RMT would likely hurt CoX. However, Daemodand's post does suggest otherwise. Interesting that you seemed to focus on what would support your point of view while looking over something that negates it.

I don't want to see RMT in CoX, but the games that Daemondand listed and their success does indicate that it is highly plausible for MMOs to offer such a service without hurting the game.

Edit: Let me also point out that I was not using "you can't prove it" as a defense. I'm not defending RMT. There just isn't sufficient evidence to support either side of what impact it would have on CoX. Personally I hope we never find out.

Edit2: I also don't understand why people use RMT in this game anyway... I'm about to hit 50 on my first toon and half his powers are already filled with set IOs. That's with me keeping him in new IOs every 5 lvls until he hit lvl 40. If there's anything easier than actually leveling in this game, it's making inf.

FACT.

Working a normal job (8-5...yay) and being in a band I don't get to play very much compared to how much I used to play WoW. But if you were to consider how much time I've spent creating new toons lvling alts etc... if I'd have worked on nothing but my tank (who should hit 50 tonight) he'd have been at 50 easily within a month of creating him... getting a toon to lvl cap in any other MMO takes MUCH more time and it's a much less fun trip. It has yet to have felt like a grind lvling him.

lmao!

^This... specifically the "It's you." portion. I've been playing for about 7 months and for the brief time I've been active on the forums every post I see where someone is complaining about getting berated for playing certain powerset combinations it's from Fire_Minded. I have yet to see ANY other post that resembles this one from any person other than you.

Get over yourself.

First it was "everyone says I shouldn't play a fire tank WAHHHHH!" then it was "everyone says I shouldn't play an elec tank WAHHHHH!" and who knows if I missed any.

Now it's "I'm being told I should be a healer WAHHHHH!"

I've actually seen you post things to the effect of you purposefully picking powerset combos that most consider weak for the sake of going against the grain. Seriously to each their own and I don't care what powerset combo someone is, I usually form my own teams and NEVER ask. But if you're going out of your way to do that don't come here and whine when people point out that it's considered weak compared to others.

I've never had this happen to me regardless of what AT/combo I'm playing and I've yet to see someone else complain so much about such incidents. My guess... it's you.

If you REALLY think it's your server, take advantage of free server transfers, just stay away from Virtue please thanks!

Interesting. I downloaded and tried a free to play MMO a while ago (can't remember the name of it to save my life but it was basically a WoW clone) they sold in game items for real money which is obviously how they made profit since you didn't have to buy the game or pay a monthly fee, not sure if they offered in game currency or not. I never bought anything and quit without progressing too far as I was looking for something to replace WoW and it was too similar but not as good.

Anyway, while I don't want to see RMT in CoX I wouldn't be opposed to it in future MMOs as long as it is as Raj mentioned with SOE's games where it is server specific that way you could choose whether or not you wanted to take part in an economy like that.

On the flip side that raises the question... do the people on the non RMT servers buy from 3rd parties to have an advantage over everyone else?

This is seriously all I was trying to say. That and while yes there would be consequences it might make the problem go away. I'm not saying the consequences would be better.

"You can't prove it" is simply my way of pointing out when something is stated as a matter of fact when in reality, it is not.

Not trying to resurrect the debate but I was thinking and have a semi related question.

Are the spammers trial accounts? If so why not just limit their methods of communication? I know that might limit those on a trial account even more than they are (not sure what the specifics on trial restrictions are) but I imagine it would help.

If they're "real" accounts do the RMTers seriously pay the $20 every time an account gets banned?

Contrary to the impression I apparently gave I do not want to see RMT of any kind... I've just become complacent with the fact that it's probably never going away.

I didn't say "I think it's 20%" I said "let's say it is" I pulled a number out of the sky.

Having said that I'm sure you're right... however...

You can't make a guarantee without proof.

So, prove it.

That's what you and Miss_Freeze_NA don't seem to get. I'm not disagreeing with the issues at hand... I'm just saying the effects of something that isn't happening can't be proven unless it does happen. We can only guess.

I'm out for now... please again don't any think I'm trying to argue. Well I'm debating but honestly I enjoy it lol.

Take care.

Both of these things are indicative that my point has gone past you. I don't support RMT. I don't necessarily think that those that took advantage of easy xp wouldn't take advantage of cheap legal influence, in fact I agree they probably would but you can't prove that they would.

The second part of this quote you put words in my mouth... I NEVER, EVER said "I think NCSoft should"... I said it would likely be the only way that RMT would actually stop. I could also say that the death penalty is the only guarantee that a criminal will not become a repeat offender but that doesn't mean I support it. Beyond that I never said it was a fact... I've stated REPEATEDLY that it's all speculation and theory. Both sides of the argument are and you've proven that by saying you can't provide 100% concrete proof... neither can I.

You're also arguing the wrong point... you're approaching it as if I think they should do it... which again... I never said. I was simply speculating that it would likely (in theory) stop RMT, because if you could get it cheap legally, why would you violate the EULA? NEVER did I say it would definitely stop it nor did I say I wanted it.

Ultimately let me say all I think you really want to hear. I agree that legal RMT would have a negative impact on the game (don't know that I'd go as far as to say shut it down as some have implied), and hell I never even said that I DIDN'T agree I just said it couldn't be proven one way or the other. Playing devil's advocate I simply pointed out that we'll never know for certain unless NCSoft does it.

Nobody here wants it to happen and we all know it is extremely unlikely that it will. All we can do is speculate, come up with theories and debate over what would happen if it did but regardless of how well a point is argued nothing is fact until it happens.

Honestly I wouldn't know, it was before I started playing but that's just it, you "bet" because nobody knows. I was simply pointing out that while yes some people did that the logic that those same people would use RMT and therefore wreck the game is flawed, for several reasons but that's one.

That's very sad and the reason I didn't get into AE for the longest time.

This makes me wonder... coding issues aside (because I'm sure if it were easy they'd probably have already done it) is it possible to have it set up to where all AE enemies followed certain templates so the devs could have direct control over their strength basically leaving the player in charge of what they look like and say and make them pick between different power sets in terms of what abilities they would have? Does that make sense?

The first is a fact. I'll give you that, but we'll likely never know how many people took advantage of that. Say it was only 20% of the playerbase, then according to your logic only 20% would buy influence if made legal.

The second is a theory, based on a fact yes, but that doesn't make it anything more than an educated theory, you cited a specific example to support your theory but it doesn't prove it as fact. Your suggestion that it's human nature and that it happened regarding xp farming doesn't PROVE that it would happen in terms of people getting influence. Again, you can cite examples, similar instances and even human nature all you want... it's not a fact until it happens, which it hopefully won't.

Edit: Let me again reiterate that I do not want to see legal RMT. Rereading my own post I realize that it sounds very argumentative. I'm not trying to argue, I'm just saying that it can't be proven unless it happens that's the difference between a theory and a fact. It is admittedly a VERY good theory but it hasn't and hopefully won't be proven.

Ultimately it doesn't matter... everything discussed is still speculation because regardless of how safe an assumption is or how sound a theory is or how many examples you provide to support it, that's still all it is, it doesn't become fact until it's proven. Regardless of how improbable it might be I know a few (including myself) and I'm sure there're more people that wouldn't use RMT even if it were offered by NCSoft because the idea of paying real money for fake money is absurd. My first point in my prior post is even admittedly speculation, hence the word likely and not guaranteed. So let's not debate over what we'll never know.


Also, while I agree with your 100% guarantee the problem isn't me using the service, I don't and I doubt anyone (or very few if so) on the forums does. But as long as there are MMOs, there will always be RMT, assuming (regarding your second point) that there's an in-game economy.

Thanks, unfortunate but that's kinda what I figured. If nothing else at least it's a safe assumption that if it's rated highly with numerous ratings (as LOLBAT is) it's entertaining regardless of xp.

Isn't whether or not it would kill the game just speculation? I'll give you that it's a safe assumption. I don't want it to happen, I'm simply saying that's likely the only way that RMT from 3rd party companies would stop and even then it wouldn't be guaranteed.