Pebblebrook

The current state of the server's load indicators at US peak have been pretty much the same as the day i18 went live and almost everyday for the last 7 months...shard farming through TFs started 3 months later.

Before i18 i used to see servers go yellow with unhidden players about 1400 +/- 150 and going red with about 2800 +/- 200. After i18 i see them go yellow around 200 +/- 30 with red around 1000 +/- 75.

It's more likely something other than player activity has changed to affect the load indicators.

I think that remains to be seen unless fighting lowbie mobs has a higher drop rate than 50s mobs. That just means you're not restricted to 50 content and will be more willing to help out your friend who wants to start a new alt, but i would think with fewer powers there would be less drop chance rolls.

Is that right? Heh, i just checked in-game and one of my 50s only has 138 hours on it. So if that's correct, it's equivalent of getting 3 alts from 1-50 to fill 1 out of 10 incarnate slots on 1 alt. Hmm, that's...truly discouraging.

Well from personal experience of bad luck, it took me a month to get 3 shard drops. But that was at least a month ago when i gave up on my incarnate so unless something changed since then, i'd say that's just long enough for me to completely give up on that system.

Maybe need to have an opinion of others that are more persistent than i heh.

Can you clarify if this includes the upper tiers of each incarnate level or does it mean you can climb up the incarnate levels but only have the lower tiers of each? It doesn't mention notices, only shards that people can already earn without the incarnate content.

I don't know. I would think the incarnate system is more simplistic than the invention system from a player viewpoint. If i cared more than a "round peg insert to round hole" attitude with IOs, i would need to have a spreadsheet or a program made by a 3rd party to make any meaningful build decisions.

Levels of necessity aside, between those two systems i'd put inventions as more of a detraction to the game's simplicity.

That situation is about as equally probable as the devs not intending for a solo option but because of a public outcry for one they are now compelled to think of something.

If they come up with one, the praise from relieved players might overcome criticism of not having one to begin with.

That's the beauty of plausible deniability. Without being part of their planning meetings we'll never know which situation is more accurate. We can only let them know our feelings on the subject and hope it doesn't take a year or more to address them.

I guess "early" is debatable since the alpha slot was originally supposed to be included in GR (i18) but got delayed. Then i19 got half an alpha slot until i19.5. To me it appears like they're playing catch up to their original feature release schedule that was pushed back.

Or maybe i've grown to become a glass half empty person, eh.

But to the OP, personally, yes it is padding but no it's not pointless. I guess the devs saw a bunch of people who were farming TFs to have stockpiled excessive amounts of shards so if they made the upper tiers to be gotten like the lower tiers, there would be numerous incarnates with very rares almost immediately.

I wouldn't be surprised if they purposely held back the upper tiers so they can datamine what people do with the shards first.

Or maybe on top of glass half empty, i've also become jaded and paranoid.

Heh, you quoted something from 17 days ago...you may want to read further down since i've added a bit more than that.

Though yes, i'm sure it's bad luck and i've said before for this particular implementation of the incarnate system, circumstances such as mine should not exist because it just helps to discourage further participation which it already did.

[Background: I rarely solo...most of my play sessions are spent duoing with a friend and both of us have the same bad luck]

But since it looks like the incarnate system at the moment is more analogous to invention system 2.0 then i'm out of this controversy. Right now i consider that activity as loot farming which i was never interested in so my friend and i are back to altism and leveling new praetorians.

Unless something changes which i still hope for.

I would make a slight disagreement to a possible implication that other games don't ask you to make a personal investment at character creation. To me they do, but not all of that investment is upfront (creation).

Well only going by my experience with this game and a certain fantasy mmo (no, not that one...the 12 year old one.)

In that game i actually did feel invested in my character when i was creating one, in the sense that i wanted to pick one that fit my personality. I wanted one that can play like i would like to play...to behave in that world like i would want to behave. Not necessarily in an RP standpoint but in that game, the game world is a good part of your character choices than it is here. And that made me really evaluate what race (origin) and class (archetype) i choose. Which i also couldn't change by the way.

And the actual origin (race) choice had more of an impact in that game than it is here. And not just how your character will look (troll, human, elf etc) or whether or not that world's inhabitants will be hostile to your character, but with things that alters your view of that world. My first alt there was a dark elf wizard and for a while couldn't understand why other players using other races had so much trouble at night till i realized dark elves had decent night vision, among other things (which i skipped in the description out of excitement the first time)

But i think the biggest difference in relation to character conceptualization at the time of creation is that in that game, the "fine-tuning" of that character is not at the start but later after acquiring gear that alters that character's looks and here, you get that complete look (with some gated costume item exceptions...don't get me started on that) at the start.

The character here looks cool enough at lvl1 and can be wildly diverse in appearance while in the other game, my character gets that feeling after getting nice gear acquired at higher levels though might look like other players who also got the same gear.

Another difference is that it took me a much longer time to hit the level cap than here and the fact they kept raising that cap only increases that gap. But it's ok over there because your abilities are pretty much the same for the most part except you're using a more powerful version of what you had before. But that also means that it makes me reluctant to start over.

The main reason i want to start over is to make one of a completely different class (archetype) but once i've made a wizard or a warrior etc, there's no real incentive for me to make another one since it's pretty much the same.

Here, archetypes have further differences depending on which primary/secondary combo you choose and which powers in those you skip or choose and "when" you choose it.

So at least for me, it's not just the character editor that pushes me to make new alts. The relatively short trip to level cap (progression) sort of pushes me to altism along with much more choices of classes (archetype/primary/secondary combination) possible here than in the other game.

Another part is the actual game world. Over there, i felt the world itself and how my character is treated in that world was an attraction that made me feel endeared to it and that specific character together. Which pretty much every level cap raise, they usually also add which amounts to a whole new world of zones to explore with that.

Some would absolutely hate the long travel times in that game but i liked it. The world felt "real" and dangerously exciting at times to just travel across it and when i returned to my "home town" in that game which could've been months because the game sort of pushes you to stick with one or few characters, so i felt nostalgic and home sick.

Over here, the world is almost inconsequential. I don't feel any attachment to my home town (atlas/galaxy etc.) so that pushes me to focus more on my character by itself. The heavy and constant exposure to recycled instancing maps you can access almost anywhere in the game world is part of the reason.

There are other reasons but that's some that first comes to mind.

Heh, that's a decent tin-foil hat segment. But for more oomph, you should add a bit more like...

/tin-foil hat on

They could have just made it like previous anniversary specialty items and just needs the player to log in during the acutal anniversary day instead of tying it to a 4 month subscription time...so maybe they're trying to stifle any player urges to quit and try out the other newly launched super-hero mmo.

Or since the required subbed promo period crosses 2 financial quarters, they're hoping more people would not just keep their sub but maybe reactivate them in order to bump up their numbers in light of the new competition.

/tin-foil hat off


How's that?

Just had a related thought. Does this mean not everybody bought into the 6mo/12mo subscription promo they had back in december? If everyone did, then not sure how much this loyalty program would be needed.

Is it safe to say that if the emphasized text is common place then there is some other balancing issue at hand?

Or to put it another way...when all else being equal (8 of your clones in a team) can only manage to go through mobs in the same rate as 1 of you, i would think something else needs to be looked at as well.

Separate note...someone listed benefits for teams. Can i dare say that teams are a bit safer...maybe? I mean, you have up to 7 other people to back you up with buffs, heals, teammates as aggro buffers between you and an entire mob group as well as adding damage in order to kill mobs faster thereby giving mobs less chances to hurt individual team members as opposed to solo.

Ok to preface...First: since i'm a player and not a dev, i'm going from a customer's perspective and have the luxury of thinking in abstract. I want to participate in the incarnate system if it's the primary content for the near future i have to or i will most likely get bored and i don't want that.

Now, i have been participating in that system for over a month with i would think is not an unreasonably low amount of in-game time to expect progress. As i stand now, i haven't progressed or not much. If incarnate levels are to be considered a proxy to the normal character level progression then my situation is akin to creating a new character, doing missions for about 6 weeks and the xp bar hasn't moved since i left the costume editor.

That is not a good thing. It serves to discourage further particaption. In fact, it already has...i started playing a new praetorian last night instead of continuing with my incarnate.


[ Disclaimer: Shards should NEVER be tradeable ]

Second: Since (right now) incarnate progression is tied to the RNG, let's look at it as loot instead of leveling.

Let's say things like SOs, insp and invention recipes and salvage are all non-tradeable with no other means of acquisition (no vendors or wentworths)...how do you think people's progression through the levels would go when most of your enhancement slots is not filled because it didn't drop for you yet? Would most people be invested in slotting IOs in that environment? I would wager that for most, they would just as well give up on the invention system and at the least be frustrated with the level up process without a properly filled enhancements.

Now those things are countered because while SOs, insp etc are random drops...there's something that is not random...inf...and they can go to npc vendors or the market where progression (accumulating loot) is more stable.


Saying all of that, i don't know what the answer would be...will leave that for the creative minds of the devs but i do know that the RNG is not working as a reasonable delivery method and we need some out-of-the-box thinking here.

However you adjust the drop rate, minmaxed soloers, people who constantly farm TFs or play over 60 hours a week will ALWAYS be on good graces with the RNG. But that shouldn't mean to leave out (i would define average but not sure) users, those who play with SOs only, uses the DEFAULT difficulty of +0/x0, play reasonable times and either solo or in small (3 or less) teams and expect them to just keep plugging away with what could quite possibly amount to years for a single character...assuming all 10 incarnate levels are done like the alpha except with more shard requirements.




Tin-foil hat time: Regarding the extra bonus in TFs (component)...i don't know if the devs purposely or unintentionally done this but this gave me the impression this might be some passive-aggressive method of "forcing" people into doing team-required content like TFs without actually "forcing" them.

Sort of reminiscent of what they did with door missions when they didn't want people streetsweeping all the time. Instead of removing street mob xp, which is a direct way to do it...they instead made door missions MUCH more appealing by increasing its rewards. End result is the same but they didn't technically remove options.

If the devs truly want the game to go in this direction, i'll have to accept that but it still wouldn't make me like it and will have to re-evaluate my options.

If it's not their intended direction, then something other than the RNG is needed.

1. They cannot drop so quickly that the least efficient methods of acquiring them are still so fast that there is no legitimate way to incentivize incarnate activities.

Looks like no chance of that from where i'm standing.


2. They cannot drop so quickly that the teamed rate is too fast to be a legitimate progression system.

Don't know the whole story and circumstances but i've seen people say they're already stockpiling extra shards for future incarnate levels.


3. They cannot drop so slowly that it is impossible for players to earn on time scales comparable to earning the combat level from 49 to 50.

Already way past that, it doesn't take me a month to go 49-50


4. They cannot drop so slowly that they force people to use only the most optimal methods of acquiring them, in the game design sense (and not in whatever arbitrary meaning someone chooses for the word "force")

Already getting that impression, but there's really nothing that can force me to do something that's not friendly to my enjoyment.



5. They must drop faster on teams than solo, scaling based on team size.

Check


6. They must drop at a rate that does not make the pursuit of actual components redundant.

See previous answer about people stockpiling shards.



7. They must drop at a rate that is consistent with future requirements of the system.

Inconclusive: Don't know future requirements. But if it's more than the current requirements then i'm scared.


8. They must drop at a rate that allows for the fact that shard acquisition rates will likely improve over time as players become better overall at earning them, as has been true for most rewards.

Not sure solely relying on RNG will help with this since the more/faster you go through mobs the higher chance you have for drops obviously. Which is already apparent but still not helping those in my situation.


9. The target rate must meet certain reasonable requirements for the average player, based on statistical average play. This means the player that solos as much as the playerbase does on average, teams as much as the average player does on average, and earns rewards at about the average player rate.

I would hope my in-game activities is considered average...but if the average playerbase activity is currently towards tf teaming, then i'll have to accept that i might be playing the wrong game.


Yes i do concede that your criteria is for the whole playerbase on average and not just me, but therein lies a problem if situations like mine exists alongside those shard stockpilers when also considering the upcoming content for the year is geared to this.

I think something needs to be looked and not just the RNG.

Heh, probably thinking of me with that quote instead of Steel_Shaman.

And i gave more info that, although spread across several posts.

Not necessarily taking sides but i haven't read that into the last few replies to you. It read to me like they just want to verify that, when you mentioned you play "3 hours on weeknights" that that doesn't break down to 30min a day or 3 hours a day but 2 of that is playing the market at wentworths.

Not an unusual request to give more info on what your typical play session is like.

I think for my situation i gave enough info to get a ballpark figure to help them understand my situation better...any more than that is not necessary for feedback...the devs have more specific numbers.

EDIT:

On a personal note, i don't think my time spent in-game is unreasonably low and i definitely know that i'm not having fun with the incarnate system.

I understand. I said that because that's reality for me. I don't normally take tally because i'm interested in fun than number-crunching when i play.

That's why i gave whatever info that i do know, albeit not precise. But looks like i did forget one...i can only estimate but maybe we do about 2-3 missions every half hour if that helps any.


EDIT:

Sidenote: If i as a player have to rely on statistics to determine if my fun or lack there of is justified...that's an unreasonable expectation of customers to a paid entertainment service.

That's my sentiments.



And to Arcanaville:

I don't count missions done or mobs killed/hour or something like that (i really shouldn't have to) but my typical play sessions are around 4 hours a day about 3 days a week and so far about 5+ weeks (didn't play much during the holiday week) since i19 getting 3 shard drops (not including the given shard)

So that's about what 60 hours-ish getting 3 shards. By your calculation of 6hours/shard i should have 10.

Maybe i am an outlier, but still is a problem...at least for me...if the majority of upcoming content in the next 6 months or so will require shards and overall time of trying is 1.5 months (which really is what comes to people's mind instead of an exact tally of in-game hours/reward statistic.)

EDIT:
I don't know about reward statistics but having the results i'm getting, the fun factor for the incarnate system and the enthusiasm for its upcoming related content is diminished.

My diff for the alt i'm trying for is +0/x8 (sometimes drop to x5 if the mobs are rough for it) and i solo sometimes but most of the time teamed with a friend and yes that friend still hasn't got enough to craft the uncommon either.

I've mentioned it before...other players have differing experiences with the RNG but if such a large gap between them exists, it's not the players that needs to adjust.

EDIT: Misspoke...that's supposed to be common not uncommon...that we still don't have enough to craft. That's the first one right?

That's the biggest problem i'm having with the incarnate system. I understand "slower" acquisition of shards. But there's "slow" and then there's "so slow it makes a snail's pace seem like lightspeed" kind of slow. The latter only serves to discourage from further participating in incarnates which i'm at now since i'm contemplating starting another praetorian instead of working on my incarnate.

I'm sure that's just the RNG, but when people are reporting getting like 10 shards or so in a single tf that's maybe averaging 1 hour of play...then there's me with 3 shard drops after a month and a half, then that is an issue that needs to be addressed.

Most times not even after...if they intend to get other work in the industry. You don't want future employers to know that you're willing to bad mouth their products if you leave the company.

The interview seems like your typical large wall of (marketing) text.

Already at that difficulty setting. Personally, if such a vast disparity between our experiences exists, i don't think it's the players that need adjusting. But eh.

When i see this, my first thought is to call shenanigans but it might just be towards the RNG. I have similar play sessions you have described yet i only have 3 shards dropped for me since i19's launch.

If the predominant content in the next 2 issues needs that alpha slotted, then looks like i would be missing out for the next half a year maybe?

Not an amusing thought for me at all.