PC_guy

well my account expires in 5 days

so....

only after no one shows up because pvp is dead in this game.

thats how we get over it

i typed out a long thing explaining how this was wrong but my browser crashed so...

the tl;dr of it was that trying to get pver's interested in pvp isn't going to accomplish anything. you shouldn't need players from another community to help you warrant changes. base builders shouldn't need pvpers to come in there and start base building to get fixes. pvper's shouldn't need badgers to come in and start pvping to get a bigger community to get pvp changes. the simple fact that the system is broken and the devs are the ones who broke it should be enough. any voice that pvp had was driven off by their changes.

trying to get pver's interested in pvp is the equivalent of putting a band aid on large wound. you are not accomplishing anything.

quiet frankly, you shouldn't try to cater the pvp newcomer or else you end up with the mess of i13.

the best way to do it is creating a system that makes sense and gives players room to excel.

for instance, there was a poster earlier in the thread(can't remember who it was) but was talking about going into pvp and getting destroyed but s/he knew *why* s/he lost. because the mechanics were similar or you could look up the mechanics and it'd make sense. you could improve your tactics, or learn the mechanics and adapt to them and ultimately fix what got you killed. this system doesn't have that. at all.

it also falls upon the players shoulders as well. RV in its current state is built to discourage newcomers. why? because it is always one sided and if you come in on the wrong side, you're going to get destroyed. its up to the veterans to help the newcomers along and to say "well ya know, you should probably try arena first since its a more balanced instance than zone and you'll learn easier" i think victory(maybe?) is doing something like this with their pvp academy or whatever its called.

why does losing have to be fun? losing shouldn't be fun. the experience of the fight and winning should be fun. players either have to have a blast with simply the experience of pvping, which if done correctly, this game already has, and some sort of reward system whether it be a merit system or leaderboards or something.


Also, i'd go on to say that pvp is much more fun when there is a large number of people(obviously) i13 cut down on your pool size and you're hindered by servers. I think what would make pvp more popular, even if you kept the current system in place, would be a pvp version of the league that is coming shortly. a queue system for arena events that would be cross server. I think it'd be easy to accomplish codewise(i'd assume so anyway) and it'd make pvp more accessible, which is the easiest way to making pvp more fun and successful.


players need to lrn2gignore. any game with pvp is going to have QQer's. fortunately this game has a very good way of managing them. it's your own fault if you let some QQ/troll get to you.

pretty much.

i'm really really Really hoping someone grills them about it at pax during the Q&A. and i mean really grill them. like "im not going to let anyone talk and bug the crap out of you guys until I get a definite non PR/legit response" grill them

zam article brought it up, every other game coming out has pvp planned for their games(meaning it makes sense for them to fix it in order to be that much more competative) and they owe the community a response.

because thats not at all what GF did when he came in the pvp boards just to specifically tell the pvp community that revamped CoP wouldn't mean they were reactivating base raids(which was completely unwarrented and unnecessary by the way and only served to effectively hit the bee's nest with a stick)

No. if i had to guess i'd say that Z in his new position noticed that in the most recent article, even the writer/interviewer noticed how little love the pvp community got since i13 and how big of a **** up it was and decided "hmmm maybe i should try to see what i can do there" not knowing that there have been others to attempt the same thing in the past and they devs literally haven't changed a thing. mechanic changes. thematic changes. hell, bug fixes. nothing.


im being realistic. i'm looking at the devs actions in the past regarding pvp and im looking at the facts. it's pretty obvious how this is going to turn out. any pvper that has for some reason stayed over the past 3 years will tell you the same thing.

look man, I like what you're trying to do but honestly. what is the point?

if you want a thread to point the devs to for feedback, point them to the stickies that are in the pvp section that say everything anyone could possibly say in these threads, but with more depth and numbers to back up their claims(i would assume that matters to the devs)

starting discussion threads like these from now on are a nice PR stunt but they aren't going to help pvp. its not a matter of how do we fix pvp, or whats wrong with pvp or how do we make pvp more accessible. its a matter of the devs thinking their **** doesn't stink.

there is nothing the players can do from this point on. any hopes for something coming pvp related is entirely dependent on the devs

yea, thats what every pvper was hoping for right after i13 launched. its 3 years later and we're still up a **** creek with a paddle.

no offense to you, but why is now different from 3 years ago(or 2 years ago, or 5 months ago) in hoping that something gets done for pvp just because you're starting some BS PR threads wanting information and peoples opinions when both have already been given multiple times over. why are these threads different from other community reps pushing for pvp fixes i.e. mod08.

what is the point of these threads? because if you look at this game's history, it suggests that there is none.

NOTE: im not trying to discourage anyone from having these discussions, but Z, you make it sound like starting these threads is going to accomplish something. it isn't. ever. period.

for the HP bonus
it doesn't really matter since the shield walls i put in are the cheap ones and they're only there for the hp bonus
read up thread were i was advised to pick it up to get some aggro of fluffeh. it seems to help.
six slotting doesn't really do anything. the melee defense isn't that important. putting arma's in orbiting death is kind of pointless since slotting the proc in mire i choose when it fires also, due to the awesome lack of mez prot, orbiting death drops everytime i get mezzed. which is very often playing end game (even when carrying BFs that little time inbetween still drops offensive toggles)

i picked it up because my AoE potential without the pet(which seems to die more often than i'd like) was very lacking. yea it drops toggles but the -recovery isn't that bad so that im still recovering endurance and can SC back to full end. with eclipse running the only thing i'd *have* to retoggle right away is inky. and travels but those are basically instanct activate.

doesn't really matter, i don't plan on exing ever. and the slotting also seems to not make a difference.
well i clearly went for a perma hasten build. how would i go about building for a significant amount of defense and still get enough recharge out of it to stay perma hasten? without going spiritual.

because i did toy around with it and didn't like it. slotting for defense seems rather pointless with perma eclipse and SC on a very very short timer. its pretty survivable as is. i have more of a problem dealing damage than surviving.

Ws damage is too low to take out a b with 2 heals and + hp. It would easily outlast both mire and eclipse and it's impossible to get either perma in pvp. The only chance a ws has a chance is in nova and even then the pb would win because the attacks are easier to proc slot. Ws can't heal or buff in a duel. It's got no chance.


A ws is literally the worst AT you can pvp with /thread


Even if you could get a situation were you could get a full mire. Worst case, you just wait for it to drop and get an easy kill or the pb has the ability to slot enough unresisted procs to take down something with only 1500-1600 hp if you slot for it. Ws can't heal. Doesn't have enough damage. And doesnt have enough hp to outlast a pb

doesn't matter. the damage buff would get DR'd down to nothing along with the eclipse. they would eventually fade anyway.

PB's attacks are much much more procable than WS are. BU is more consistant than mire, they've got +hp which is the least hit thing in pvp by DR along with a heal. not to mention you'd have nothing to summon a pet from.

there is absolutely no situation were given equal builds, the WS wins. ever. period.

granted both are pretty bad to pvp with. PBs are only good if you have an vast amount of cash to pump into it. were as a WS could never be made decent.

immobilization

maybe extend this knowledge to khelds as well? or anything castle touched in i13?


because it'd either be a PR event filled with BS. or it turn into the devs taking the same stance by defending themselves and pvpers raging at them. it would really be very very unproductive. (assuming the devs would come, which there is no way they would). but I said this in the last thread though, the time to talk with the devs has long past, anything they would need from our end has already been done multiple times over.

it'd be alot easier if there was something more to like than turning off the stuff in arena

whats the point?

everyone who has ever remotely been involved with pvp has gone through this round about multiple times. Personally i've had numerous conversations with mod08 when he used to come to triumph and we would talk about the current state of pvp, he'd go through the same round about you're giving us right now. what do you guys think will make pvp better, what do you like about pvp ect. albeit those were the first conversations and the ones after those were basically "hows it coming on the pvp front mod08?" and he'd give something along the lines of "im trying but to no avail" followed by a feelsbadman.jpg.

and i think the big discourse in this thread is this
because i dont' think this is correct AT ALL. there is alot of harm in talking about the current state of pvp. why? because we've been talking about the current state of pvp for the last 3 years. every time the issue comes up its followed by rage, frustration, and disappointment. you're getting the hopes up of anyone who isn't already jaded by the devs actions in the past and that is a very dangerous thing to do.

by creating this thread to "talk about the current state of pvp" without giving us something to put our good graces on, you're(generic dev you) acting like there is a chance for something to be done about pvp, when anyone who has been around knows that that isn't going to happen. we've done this before and nothing happened. why should this be any different? its like reminiscing to a recovering alcoholic about the good times you used to have when you used to get ****faced on the weekends.

we're now at the point were community feedback and talking about the subject isn't the problem and action by the dev team, or lack there of, is the problem. and it has been for a long long time.

so, again, whats the point of putting the pvp community through this same dog and pony show, something its already been through before, when there is almost nothing differently from the past and why should we be expecting a different outcome.

I can understand your wanting to understand the pvp community and your empathy towards us, but no matter how constructive this thread gets, all it does is harm your pvp community when they know, you know, and the other devs know that nothing has been done, and there has yet to be anything to show that anything will be done.