Olantern

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I like Venture.

That said, I think the reason for this entire thread is not that Nemesis stretches his suspension of disbelief, but Venture appears to put forth the the idea that Nemesis should stretch everyone's suspension of disbelief.

I for one, don't share that opinion. I am perfectly happy that everyone's suspension of disbelief runs out in various places.


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This. Note that you can substitute lots of people's names for Venture's; he just states it the most eloquently. Here's an explanation:

The "Nemesis debate" seems to be about two things. First, how realistically do you expect the context/physical setting of the game world to operate? If you want it to be as plausible as the scientific explanations in hard science fiction, you'll be disappointed. If you're satisfied with, "Oh, it runs on steam," or, "Oh, it's magic," you're fine.

Put another way, some people argue that heroes shouldn't be able to use Fire powers and still claim they don't kill or maim the enemies they use them on. These people expect the game's setting and trappings to function in a relatively "realistic" way. The fact that not everyone agrees is at the root of the fight over whether Nemesis's technology is silly or "cool."

(I'm reminded here of a debate over Origins a while back. Most of the posters criticized Magic as "too open-ended" and "lacking an explanation." I pointed out that I prefered Magic precisely because all it requires as an explanation is "it's magic" rather than an elaborate, pseudoscientific justification. Of course, I noted that if you prefer, say, Science, making up the elaborate justification is part of the fun.)

Second, and I think this is the real problem, how realistic do you expect the psychology of the world to be? While not all critics would agree with me, I argue that while the characterization of any story must be believeable, different works can have different levels of realism. I don't expect a particularly high level of realism from CoX, so I'm okay with, say, time-travel not being an "I-win button," or goofy conspiracies like the various Nemesis plots not being immediately outed and foiled.

Many people, however, expect the game's world to operate more like the real world in psychological terms. Thus, when a villain comes up with a complex plot with more parts than a Rube Goldberg machine, they expect it to collapse under its own weight, much as it would in reality.

(For a good example of what I'm talking about with "psychological realism" levels, compare Jim Butcher's "Dresden Files" book series with Sergei Lukyanenko's "Night Watch" series. Both deal with a subculture of the supernatural hiding in modern society, and both feature believeable characters. However, in Butcher's series, the less "psychologically realistic" of the two, the heroes can generally triumph through application of hard thinking and magical firepower, and the menaces are generally actual opponents who can be defeated. In Lukyanenko's more "realistic" series, on the other hand, while the heroes are even more powerful than Butcher's, they frequently lose, because the threats they face are primarily spiritual or emotional.)

The problem may be that the devs never give a clear statement of how psychologically realistic the game world is supposed to be. However, I think it's strongly implied that the game isn't meant to be particularly psychologically realistic, and I think attempting to shoehorn it into a more pyschologically realistic frame is just an exercise in frustration for all concerned. Obviously, not everyone agrees with me; some feel that the lack of psychological realism is a fatal weakness in the game world's design.

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Getting back to the real reason I posted, does anyone know about the use of vacuum tubes in modern, real-world techonology? I thought sure someone would bite on that hook when I mentioned it . . .

While the technical operation of Nemesis technology is explained by hand-waving (as it should be, in my opinion), some of the old Base Salvage implied that it's more an "alternative modern" technology than just steam-powered stuff. The Nemesis Vacuum Circuits come to mind. Don't MiG fighters use something vaguely similar?

In a larger sense, I think this forum just needs to accept the fact that some people hate Nemesis, some people like Nemesis, some both like and dislike, and some just don't care, then move the heck on. Everyone's always down on Nemesis, but there's one thing I can say for the faction that isn't true of any of the other "high-power" ones, with the possible exception of Arachnos: they have a strong sense of style and look interesting. I, for one, wouldn't have thought of giving an Evil Genius a pseudo-19th-century army. Certainly, they're more distinctive than Malta (ooh, Evil Scary CIA Guys Out to Rule the World), Crey (ooh, Evil Corporation Out to Enrich The Evil Suit-Wearing Guys At Everyone's Expense), the Council (like COBRA, only an uglier base color and fewer accessories to get lost), or even the CoT (what's with those tall hats?).

I've come to the conclusion lately that there are two kinds of people in this world: those who think Nemesis is an unrealistic joke and those who think Malta and Crey are unrealistic jokes.

Edited to reduce pointless viciousness.

For a model of Superadine that implies that increased use kills the body through physical burn-out (as well as reducing intelligence), take a look at the MA arc "David and Goliath" by @Dispari.

You might try asking your questions in Manticore's new "Fodder for the Canon" lore question thread.

I miss Lady Athyna. She was nice.

i15: The Players Hate Us, But We're Still Going to Keep Producing This Game Anyway.

Coming soon:

i16: The Expansion No One Likes.

i17: Funding and Staff Cuts When i16 Does Not Double Game's Subscription Numbers.

i18: Server Merges!

i19: Shutdown!

Dear Caves,

What the heck is that blue rock you're made of, anyway? Is Rhode Island really supported on bluish-purple bedrock, and if so, why hasn't anyone ever seen it?

And, while we're at it, you're filled with abandoned mining equipment. What the heck were people mining in there? And why aren't they doing it any more?

Love,

Olantern

Additional issue that may or may not be related to the problem under discussion here:

While playing the republished arc of mine that broke earlier tonight, the team leader received a message of "internal error" when accepting one of the missions. This could be a client-side issue, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were somehow connected to the issue discussed here. That mission has a lot of objectives, but the map can hold them. Oddly, despite the "error" message, she was able to accept the mission and read the send-off text. The entire team was able to enter the mission with no problems, and the mission itself populated entirely as it should have, with no problems.

Maybe I'm wrong, and this is a completely different bug.

The Key and the Chain
Arc ID: 193451
Faction: Heroic
Length: 4 missions.
Creator Global/Forum Name: (Come on. You know this!)
Difficulty level: Moderate to hard. Depending on the spawns of custom enemies you get, they can be quite challenging in groups or on higher settings. Solo, the arc's relatively easy. The arc contains two scaling AV's and an EB, but assistance is provided for all of them (see details below).
Suggested level: 22+. Characters in the mid-20's will see the greatest variety in the custom faction. I soloed the arc with only a single death (due to double spawn aggro) with an SO-slotted level 26 DB/WP scrapper.
Estimated time to play: 40 minutes solo, about an hour or slightly over teamed.

Synopsis: The Legacy Chain has located the Spirit Key, a magical item that can be used in conjunction with a mass sacrifice to open a gateway between dimensions. The Banished Pantheon knows about the Key, too, and plans to seize it and use it to wake Mot, the Sleeper beneath Dark Astoria. You soon discover, however, that the Banish Pantheon is the least of your problems. Two prominent CoV contacts make guest appearances in this arc.

Design notes: Despite the multiple EB's, this arc is intended to be eminently soloable, though it's probably more fun on a team.

Missions 1 and 2 are listed as levels 40-54, but the faction is Banished Pantheon, which are mechanically identical to their level 20-29 versions. I just didn't want higher level characters to complain about losing powers on this arc.

Mission 2 contains a non-custom EB that, I believe, scales up to AV class. However, it's one widely regarded as one of the weakest in the game, and you should have an Allied "ambush" to help you fight it. This ambush doesn't always spawn where I mean it to; if you have feedback, positive or negative, about it, PLEASE let me know!

Mission 3 contains a custom Elite Boss. You're provided with a custom boss-level ally to help you.

Mission 4 contains a custom scaling AV. You're provided with a custom Elite Boss (not primarily a damage dealer, so don't fret about your xp) to help, as well as two custom lieutenants who'll help teams having trouble reaching the custom EB get there.

Aside from the bosses, the custom faction in this arc is the Legacy Chain. In addition to the existing enemies, I added two new Legacies, Thunder and Thought, to fill out the group's level range up to 54. The Legacy of Thunder uses Electrical attacks. Lieutenants have Storm Summoning (no Hurricane), and bosses have Cold Domination. The Legacy of Thought uses Psi attacks, primarily Psionic Assault. Lieutenants have Drain Psyche (no Psychic Shockwave) and a couple of ally-targeted healing powers. Bosses have Mind Control. None of the custom enemies are set on Extreme on either powerset.

I've found that a spawn of the Legacy of Thunder and a Thought lieutenant can drain a character of endurance shockingly fast, though the enemies seem fairly balanced otherwise. I'd appreciate more feedback on this.

***

Thanks for reading. I hope you play one or more of these arcs!

The Heart of Talos: a Warriors Task Force
Arc ID: 175660
Faction: Heroic
Length: 4 missions.
Creator Global/Forum Name: @Djinniman/Olantern (Do you sense a pattern here?)
Difficulty level: Moderate to hard, depending on team size. I originally believed this arc would be unsoloable because it contains multiple EB's and a scaling AV you face without assistance, but I've since soloed it with a couple of different characters. Large teams may have trouble with the fairly hard-hitting custom faction.
Suggested level: 35+. Lower-level characters may have trouble handling the damage from the non-custom faction in mission 2, which spawns only at level 35 and up. The other missions can be played at any level, but higher-level characters have a much easier time of it.
Estimated time to play: It takes about 40 minutes to solo on the characters with which I've tried it. Teams might take longer to cut through all the enemies. I have yet to play through the entire arc on a team larger than 2, though I've tested individual missions with larger groups.

Synopsis: If you paid attention to your game lore for the first 25 levels of the hero side, you know that some of the gangs are part of an illicit trade in magical artifacts. The trail leads to the Warriors, where it stops without explanation. This arc is my explanation for where the Warriors get all those magical knickknacks from, as well as an attempt to tie this i0 game lore with some more recent additions to the game. In the finale, you'll face an Archvillain who's been mentioned several times in the game's backstory but never seen before.

Design notes: Through most of the arc, you'll be facing a custom faction of Warriors. I made a custom version of them partly to give them a little more variety and partly to ensure that characters over 29 wouldn't be downleveled for several of the missions, especially since mission 2 spawns only at 35 and up. The Warriors hit hard, since they all use weapon powersets, but the minions are all damage-based, no controls or signficant debuffs. The lieutenants use either stealth or minor ally buffs (from the Shield set). The bosses have some minor healing powers. Aside from knockdown/knockup, none of them have any control powers. A second, fairly easy custom faction appears in missions 2 and 3 for flavor.

Custom Elite Bosses appear in missions 1, 3, and 4. Multiple instances of an existing Elite Boss appear in mission 2. You do not receive assistance with the EB in mission 1. You are provided with an EB-level ally in mission 2, who can act as either buffer/healer or tank depending on your needs. (He enabled me to solo the non-custom EB's in this mission with several different characters.) You do not have allies for the EB in mission 3, but he is of Rogue alignment, so you can get the Enemy faction to eliminate him for you if you are careful. You do not have help for the scaling AV in mission 4. The encounter with him is specifically designed as a challenge due to his supporting group, but different archetypes can overcome it using different approaches.

I designed this arc with teams in mind, but despite the "task force" in the title, I now wonder if it's actually too difficult for a large team with all the custom enemies. If anyone plays through it on a team larger than 3, please let me know.

Additional note: This arc "broke" for no apparent reason this past weekend, but it should be playable again now.

I've been holding off on posting threads specifically about any of my arcs, since these threads get buried quickly and don't seem to attract many comments, probably because there are so many of them. I also wanted to wait until I had all three of my arc slots filled. Now that I've published my third one, I'm following the traditional practice and posting a thread all about my arcs.

***

The Love Talker: a City of Heroes Faerie Tale
Arc ID: 30242
Faction: Heroic
Creator Global/Forum Name: @Djinniman/Olantern
Length: 4 missions.
Difficulty Level: Moderate. Contains only a few custom critters. Optional Elite Boss in mission 3, scaling AV in mission 4, though you have three boss-level allies available. None of the custom characters have defense sets. The real challenge in this arc is that several missions feature Red Caps, which can be tough opponents for many characters.
Suggested level: 30+. All missions except mission 2 are playable at any level. Mission 2 spawns at 34 and only 34.
Time to play: Seems to average about 40 minutes.
Special notes: Mission 3 is timed, but the time limit is two hours. This arc is currently broken and unplayable due to removal of one of its maps post-publication.

Synopsis: Skipper LeGrange of Croatoa requests your help in defeating a dangerous faerie creature known as the "Cancanagh" ("Love Talker" in Erse Gaelic) preying on the women of Salamanca. Of course, defeating the creature isn't as straightforward as it appears, and you'll end up having to seek magical help from one of Croatoa's best-known residents, visit the depths of the spirit world, and investigate the origins of the Tuatha before you can end the threat. For more specific information about this arc, look up PoliceWoman's review of it in her thread.

Turg, this happened with my arc, #175660. Republishing seemed to fix it. I haven't tried it again since yesterday, so it may be broken again. FYI, the arc was at about 95% capacity.

I also had another arc break, but that was due to the removal of the Burning Forest, so that's a "known issue."

My understanding as of yesterday was that two popular maps, the burning forest and the Crey PP lab, were pulled, breaking any arcs that used them. My first arc was one of those.

Not to worry; I created a second arc, using an Abandoned Warehouse, Forest 2 (the one with the island), a Cimeroran cave, and the Skulls office, along with a couple of custom groups and the regular Cimeroran Traitors faction. As of yesterday evening, the arc worked.

Today, after over a week of struggle, I finally managed to put together a near-full team to run it (and some other arcs, too). However, my arc could not be started. Have any of the maps or factions been pulled without announcement?

I suppose there's the outside chance a GM could have mistaken it for a farm arc, but I can't for the life of me imagine how. And if they had banned the arc, I would have received a message about it, right?

As another poster mentioned in the last thread on this, one set or the other MUST have a power named "Black Ice."

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while I am interested in the justice system of paragon, I don't neccesarily want to play through it.


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This. I deal with that stuff enough in real life; I don't want the vagaries of the law messing up my CoX world of nice, clean, black/white/grey morality.

Besides, any legal storyline in the Paragon City world would be either a boring, mechanical exercise of, "Yup, he did it," or an exercise in frustration as villain after villain has his case pled out or wins an acquittal. The first City of Heroes comic I ever wrote, "Spectral Evidence," was about exactly this issue. Tellingly, I wrote it one day in under two hours in a rush of inspiration after sitting through a particularly grueling session of lawyers boasting about their sense of social justice.

I agree that these are more aspects of play than exclusive styles. For instance, one could be both a completist and a content maven, an AE specialist and a min/maxer, or any number of other combinations.

One I haven't seen mentioned here is "Mentor"- someone whose primary goal is assisting other players, especially newer players, with aspects of the game. This might mean teleporting and healing characters in trouble, like the Taxibots or Paragon Search and Rescue, providing advice about a build or a game mechanic, answering questions, or literally sidekicking another character in order to show a player something interesting, fun, or significant. I've seen lots of players over the years who spend most of their time, at least on specific characters, doing this kind of thing. Personally, I find it to be one of the most enjoyable and rewarding things to do in the game, too.

Are you playing Dev's Choice missions, which are indicated by an orange "AE" logo next to the arc name in the selector? Those give regular drops rather than tickets.

It's difficult, nearly impossible, to create a spawn that's certain to feature only one of Boss A and one of Boss B. Can you explain more precisely what you're trying to do?

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Rather than wax philosophical on this, I'll quote a simple rule I always follow. If people have questions, I answer them regardless of how stupid these questions may be or how many times I've had to answer the same question before. If people ask for help and I can help, I help them. If people are idiots or jerks, I bid them farewell and leave them to their devices.

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This.

I've had the opportunity to team with a couple of fairly new people recently, plus have a very pleasant conversation with someone who'd been away from the game since i6. I generally like working with new players and try to be helpful, though it makes me sad that none of them believes me when I tell them that it's not worth rushing to the level cap because "the game is the journey, not the destination."

Interestingly, ALL of the new and returning people I've met have come here as a break from WoW.

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Oh, and an Ice Stalker Hide just HAS to be called "Black Ice."


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I'd make one just to take this power.

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. . . they should stop the huge exploit.

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Quoted for massive truth! I'm all in favor of stopping exploits. I wish that every time it happened people didn't fly off the handle, though, but that's hardly the devs' fault. By the way, the fact that Rikti Communication Officers were responsible (well, involved, anyway ) in the late powerleveling mess has caused me to develop an unreasoing hatred of them wherever I see them. My team was looking at me funny as I was typing "Die, PL'ing scum!" as I pile-drivered the Communication Officers with Incadescent Strike.

Also, I can't speak for anyone else, but I know the main reason I post dooooom-y posts is so someone can tell me I'm being an idiot.

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Luckily, the doomsayers are always wrong. The game gets better every issue.

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See? Like that. It's tough to get perspective on this stuff just by reading the fora.

Thanks again to Thor's Assassin for this thread.

I'm really afraid for the future of the game. I don't think the devs can rebuild all the goodwill they've lost recently, survive the newshinyness of their coming competition, weather the current storm of bad publicity, or bring in the kind of subscription numbers I suspect NCSoft expects from the upcoming expansion. It's simply too much at once. I think the fact that most of our longtime community supporters are losing hope for the future is a bad sign.

But I just wanted to add that I love this community and that I'm here for the long haul as well. Thank you, TA; your post does my heart good.

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Looks like he trashed a commenter who claimed he could come up with a better system for CoX in two minutes.

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Well, that's nice. As I said, Varney is good when he's on his game. (I couldn't get this page to load for some reason, myself.)

Certain maps will also cause this behavior spontaneously if they contain two different factions, one set to "enemy" and another set to "rogue" or even "friendly," though the latter won't attack players. Actually getting to see such a battle, however, depends on whether the two groups spawn within each others' aggro ranges, so it isn't a guarantee.

If you want to be sure of seeing enemies fight, use "add a battle." You can also have a friendly or rogue ambush trigger during a boss fight goal; create an "ambush" goal and set it to activate when the boss reaches a certain level of health.

I always thought of Allen Varney as a great game supplement writer but an incredibly arrogant, self-absorbed commentator. His The Veiled Society for AD&D's Dark Sun setting ranks among my five favorite RPG works of all time. On the other hand, Varney once spent several pages in a review of a Champions supplement complaining about how anyone who like The Punisher was a psychopath and spent several pages in a review of the Amber game claiming that dice rolls are an abomination. Neither review gave any information about the supplements themselves that I can remember.

I imagine he trashed CoX.

QR

It looks as if there's mild interest for this sort of thing, but it looks as if it's best organized elsewhere.

Those who are interested, just PM me.

The fact that I stuck the term "Task Force" in my MA title got me to thinking about task force-like arcs: arcs that feature lots of powerful enemies and require a team to appreciate fully, yet still tell a full, coherent, well-written story. Well-known arcs that fall into this category include "Tomorrow Belongs to Me," "David and Goliath," and the recently-promoted Zombie Apocalypse TF.

It can be difficult to find fairly large teams to do these kinds of team-focused arcs, yet those I've seen are among the best work the MA has produced so far. In order to enable more people to see them, I'm floating the possibility of putting a series of teams together on various servers in order to team up and do some of these arcs. I imagine this could be run as any other player event, taking perhaps a few hours some evening.

Before I go setting this up as a real event, though, I thought I'd see what the MA story community thinks of the idea. I'd be willing to lead a team on Liberty. Any other takers? Be sure to give your server and any other information you consider relevant. If we go ahead with this, we'll also need to figure out how to select the arcs.

Thanks for considering.