Oedipus_Tex
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Posts
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Quote:Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
And "Videos or it didn't happen?" Really? Nothing I posted is impossible, or even that big of a stretch of the imagination. I'm not soloing a level 54 AV with just Force Bolt - that sort of thing would logically have people requesting proof. *Nothing* I posted should be the least bit surprising.
I'm saying show me a video with something impressive in it that illustrates definitively why you are so against a buff to this set. Your glowing praise of Force Field's knockback stands completely at odds with anything I have ever actually witnessed, and the things you listed as benefits are IMO parlor tricks. I have seen decent-ish things done with Storm, but the two are not directly comparable. I have occasionally needed to knock an enemy backwards Force Bolt style but never felt pressured to do it constantly or to give up dps or control animation time just to keep doing it in succession. -
If I was going to keep Force Bolt around as is-ish it would get a -5% resistance debuff stackable up to 5 times and a 20% chance of unresistable knockback. Say hi to the floor, Archvillains. There would have to be some way to ensure the power didn't blow Hamidon and the like backwards. But I think it would be completely fair if a Force Fielder occasionally sent Lord Recluse flying backward on his butt. One of FFs hugest problems is that few times you would actually want to blow something off its feet it is completely immune. The purple triangles doesn't cut it because like nearly everywhere else in the game, mezzes are better.
Another thing I've been thinking is that a few of the less powerful sets should have a way to detoggle purple triangles for a few extra seconds. I think that maybe should be a Stalker thing though. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Arcanaville
In the meantime I predict Farsight will be the next Radiation Infection, where people basically needed videos of Rads going to sleep inside the cloud to demonstrate what the strength of the power actually was. And farsight has none of the weaknesses of Radiation Infection.
I'm working on it.
P.S. are you saying the -Regen does stack? It was my initial assumption from open beta that it did stack, but someone said it doesn't and I never bothered to test it one way or another. -
Quote:Originally Posted by RemianenI
Would you go to college so you can work at McDonald's flipping the proverbial burgers?
What I mean to say is, if the method you describe requires practice, care, precision, and the oft-misused "skill" to accomplish the same thing the path of least resistance (i.e. the "usual method") does, how can you blame people for wanting to go with the latter option? There are many people who believe this game starts at 50 (boy, what a departure from previous years. But I digress...) and with all of the "farming" (trials, etc) that "has to be done" to fully kit out a character, there aren't many who are willing to spend the time necessary to learn how to effectively use the tactics you allude to. Easier to roll up a class that levels fast or supports really well and jump into teams and do things "the right way" (i.e. the easiest way/the way it's always done/etc).
I think this is well said, although I would take it a step further: even at this level of expertise, you still end up worse off than if you went the so-called "easy" route. This is why I want to see a video showing an "expert" rocking the knockback in this set, and why I am so skeptical that a video exists.
I am not someone who doesn't play FF. I have two of them. I said earlier in the thread there are reasons to play them. But I do think they need a buff. I also don't elect to play my FFers unstrategically. The knockback powers may be situationally okay, but they are not better than the alternative powers you could have put there. Especially not when you can get a very similar knockback power free of build cost. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I don't see what's so difficult about that.
I could have done every one of the things you listed with my Nemesis Staff.
Anyway, videos or it didn't happen. I want to see one of these knockback pros in action. If it exists great, I'd like to learn how to do it.
EDIT: I'll throw this bone to you. Repulsion Field is auto hit and has no combat speed penalty for casting. I have used it a few times. But not enough to retain in an actual live build. Even pool powers are better choices. -
In terms of long term strategy at the incarnate levels, Time with Power Boost or Build Up is way more survivable than anything else available to a support character. The mezz issue is handled with Clarion Destiny if you go that high. Alpha: Spiritual, Conserve Power from the APP pool, and you are unstoppable due to huge recharge buffs. Time has a few features that are very hard to get elsewhere, like +Perception, so Arachnos shouldn't roll you just because you run out of yellows.
Traps will have an easier time with AVs and do a few other things Time won't. Sort of faster at kill speed but this isn't for sure because Time has an enormous Recharge buff that depending on your primary could mean having your big hitting powers available more often, and makes the Recharge values on Time's powers more like "suggestions" than actual values. Traps will probably have less redraw than Time. Traps also gets its powers earlier and exemplars better. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Zamuel
How much of that is the fault of the devs and how much of that is the fault of the players? While I'll admit that a lot more could be done, even with the current engine, don't most players openly shun anything where positioning the enemy would be advantageous outside of simple herding?
IMO you can't fault players for following the strategy that works. What most players openly shun is hobbling themselves. Since they can get the job done without Force Field's knockback, there is no reason for it, especially in the volumes presented. I replaced my Force Field character's knockback powers with a temp power and moved on. The character is even called the "Pinball Blizzard" but short of vaulting enemies all over Atlas Park for the purpose of "minion hockey" he functions much better by ignoring all but 4 of his powers. The others he only has for costume purposes on an alternate build.
PS I'll add that the Stalker version of Energy Aura burning down its cottage gives me hope for Repulsion Field and Force Bolt yet. While I don't really care if the powers still throw enemies around, if they are going to do that there needs to be some reason why throwing them around is actually beneficial. Maybe I'm just a bad player but until I see a video of someone actually using Force Field's knockback powers as part of a legitimate long term strategy that rivals competing sets I'm more inclined to believe in the existence of the yeti. The One Time someone had to knockback a boss does not count; I already do that with the Nemesis Staff. I wish there was a temp power to replace what is in other support sets. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Kioshi
Plus if you see another melee guy actually managing to attack someone, you can use Force Bolt which can achieve 50 mag KB with proper slotting! On top of Repulsion field with can get to 17, Repulsion Bomb and of course pairing it with Energy Blast and you have the ultimate 'no melee allowed' toon!
I have an open question about Force Bolt and what "Mag 50" knockback actually means for this power. At one time I had the power fully slotted for knockback. I was never able to find an enemy that I could knockback with slotted Force Bolt that I couldn't unslotted, which wouldn't be as bad if the distance enemies traveled in the slotted versus unslotted versions wasn't almost the same. I had envisioned Mag 50 throwing an enemy clear across the room. But it appears that knockback does not work this way. I would estimate the furthest I have ever thrown a same level enemy caps out at around Mag 15 or so, maybe a little further. Lower level enemies are rag dolls, maybe because when Mag 50 gets multiplied by modifiers it turns into Mag 300 or something, but even that doesn't throw them the unreasonable distance it sounds like... certainly not 300 times the base knockback distance.
With knock UP powers, like Levitate, I have very clearly witnessed the power throw enemies a further distance because of slotting. But I can't really say I have with Force Bolt and I have no idea why. -
Force Field needs a buff.
Technically its not completely comparable to Time because FF provides better defense to teammates. On a Controller the defense numbers from Farsight with Power Boost are better than Force Field without PB, but Force Field can (and IMO kind of has to) also PB and bring that up to fairly astounding levels. The -End Drain is also somewhat useful. Force Field also has a sweet spot between around levels 15 and 40 where it is awesome because other sets haven't matured yet.
However, what really stands out about FF is that most of its powers are not buffs. They are attacks and control powers. They are just so awful that the set has become known for its buffs only. Force Field actually has exactly as many offensive powers as Cold Domination and Time Manipulation. By its rights Force Field should be a clicky set. It just isn't because the game has never gotten serious about making knockback, intangible, or repel legitimately desirable in mass quantities versus what you could get by just using a Nemesis Staff temp power. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Nox__Fatalis
There's virtually no -regen in the set, no status protection, and numbers can't even compare to rad. No -def autohit powers, and as far as I can tell the HPS of mending is no greater than any other aoe heal.
If only Time's combined defense advantage combined with its -ToHit was more than Radiation -ToHit when fighting high level enemies and archvillains.
Oh wait, it is.
And lacking autohit -defense as a major balance issue? What?
PS the area effect of Time's powers is also more than 6 [EDIT: Actually I'm wrong, it's 4.6 times, a volume of 65,449ft versus 14137ft] times larger than Radiation. The only people claiming the numbers "don't even compare to Rad" don't understand "the numbers." I'm sorry to be that blunt but there is no other possible take on that. If having worse minus Regen than another set is a standard for getting what Time has, Trick Arrow should be soloing Hamidon. -
Sorry, this will be one of those TL;DR posts.
I'm going to give the developers a break here: I think writing serial content for villainous protagonists is nearly impossible without descending into either camp or blood-drenched grizzle. I can't think of a successful television series consistently written from the viewpoint of a villain that isn't either a comedy or outright horror (featuring nominal protagonists). And even when the villain is the protagonist, most of the time the villain loses or at least does not accomplish all of his or her goals, which would quickly get frustrating if played literally in an MMO.
Just speaking for myself, even for someone with such slapstick characters I am very squeamish about animated violence directed at police officers and random citizens, so if Longbow isn't a perfect analogy for "good" or at least "innocent" so much the better. I would much rather deal with a mustache twirling kind of evil than what might pass for "realistic." The hero side of things works more or less the same way with me. Call it the difference between Modernism and Post-Literacy if you want, but I really don't care which evil character is motivated by what or who because its always going to end in a warehouse full of "bad guys," and if it didn't I'd be disappointed. In order for that to happen, evil (and maybe good too) has to have a certain "heroic fantasy" element added to it: these enemies cannot be reasoned with, they exist only so there can be a cool fight scene, and in stepping up to fight them my morality will not be called into question because there is nothing else "to" them. They must be stopped, and only fireballs and lightning bolts will do it. It's not realistic, it's fantasy.
All of this said, I find the "storyline" element of the game very confusing. For seven years I played a text based MUD which valued role play and continuity very highly. By "continuity" I mean not only within "story arcs" but also within the world; care was taken to ensure there were internally logical explanations for events. City of Heroes has sections of the city being blown up in some story arcs but then you go there (later? before?) and it is just fine; but when Galaxy City was wrecked it became so in all timelines completely. There is also at least one instance I know of where a character dies in a trial, and yet she is still standing around Praetoria like it never happened (happens? will happen? has happened more than once?)
I feel City of Heroes and other MMOs try to shoehorn single player storylines into a multiplayer environment. I gather from reading some player's posts that it makes them feel like they've accomplished something and are making a mark on the game world, but it makes me feel exactly the opposite. For me it underscores that I have absolutely nothing to talk about with other players regarding the world we share because we share space, not a world. I can't say something like "Oh, did you hear so and so died?" like my character very well would say after being told about it, because nobody is "told" about anything.
Basically, this game has little sense of RP continuity. Some people have said they Brainstorm (I think his name is) arc is poor because it tries to explain game mechanics that don't need it, and that's how I feel about "time" being tied to level. I can never talk about Desdemona being "heroic" because she exists in a state of constant flashback. Relating this to the game at large, the game continually makes claims that I am saving the dam, or killing the leader, or witnessing the destruction of a zone, and what have you. I would be more comfortable with it saying I stopped the villain this time, or witnessed a part of the zone's destruction. The incarnate trials are especially egregious offenders in this regard, especially because in order to be an incarnate while playing the trial, you logically must have gotten your power somewhere and it turns out you probably got it from the same event.
Anyway I think writing this kind of stuff is really hard. I don't think we're going to get outstanding villain content, but at the same time I don't care, because I don't read any of it anyway, for the reasons stated above. It never has any bearing on the game world; in fact it has negative bearing on it for me because the world I make up for myself and the people around me is more coherent. Contextually speaking, I have more faith in the short conversation I might have with someone in Atlas Park than what goes on in missions because that, at least, has some sense of having actually happened and multiple witnesses would agree to it. -
I don't like Gravity much but Cold does work well with it considering the fairly big control hole. There are builds that could potentially make your pet nearly unkillable in normal combat.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
I don't believe this set is stronger than Kin, Rad, Dark or Cold.
On the sliding scale this game provides I don't think its possible to call anything overpowered. There is simply no standard. When it "it can soft cap to all positions on SOs" doesn't even raise eyebrows it's kind of a shrug what can you really say situation. So how about giving Force Field those self cast shields? -
Quote:Originally Posted by Dispari
Time doesn't have mez protection.
I will.
Anyway, Force Field doesnt have heals, -ToHit, slows, perception debuff resistance, slow resistance, or regen debuff resistance. One time recently I actually got hit by a very large -Recharge debuff and actually countered it with Chrono Shift, zeroing it out.
And Time's defenses don't cave like Force Fields do when there are Sleeps in play. I actually think I may be still be soft capped in normal content even if I do get mezzed, assuming I cap incarnate with bonuses.
EDIT: Forgot to add that Time would have way better Psi defense than Force Field as well even if Force Field could self cast shields, because the ally shields do not provide that. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Arcanaville
True, but in the case of Willpower the *vast majority* opinion was that it sucked, not just that it wasn't great. In the case of TM, the majority opinion (to a lesser degree) was that it was "average." Even by the devs own admission TM was aiming to be a competitor to Kin and Rad, two of the sets considered among the most powerful. I just think they outdid themselves a little.
Time Manipulation brings up a sort of philosophical question for me. If Force Field could self-cast its shields, would it be considered a high powered set? Because Time is more survivable than that. I can see no logistical argument for Force Fielders not being allowed to soft cap themselves on SOs given Time's implementation, and that includes being able to use Power Boost. The fact that Time Manipulation does this while retaining what is among the highest possible Recharge values in the game and an extremely powerful heal has me thinking this game really has no standards of "overpowered" left to salvage anyway.
In any case, it was kind of a headscratcher to keep with the conversation that simultaneously claimed "IOs aren't considered in game balance" and "well everyone is soft capped to every position anyway," as if those two conditions can somehow can exist in the same justification without causing a logical implosion.
To the extent that this set is "balanced," people are unlikely to sit on Broadcast trying to recruit a Time Manipulator specifically. But people also don't sit around asking for specific Armor sets, and that is what this is: one of the best armor sets in the game, which happens to include some debuffs and buffs on the side (some of them quite good).
[Note that the Oedipus Tex character himself is now an Earth/Time Controller. Just because I think its overpowered doesnt mean I won't exploit it for what its worth. I do look forward to soft capping in incarnate content assuming I stick with my current build plan.]
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Radiation comes closest.
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What is this talk of stacking Time? You are thinking too literally.
1 Time, 1 Kinetic. If any team member ever struggles in a mission post level 40 [EDIT: said 35 at first, but lets make an allowance for Time secondaries], they should be forced to delete their characters and cancel their accounts immediately.
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Every set has its performance questioned in beta.
I wish the threads about Shield Charge were still available for the LOLs. -
Looks mostly good but swap Fissure and Tornado. You can now take Fissure at 35 and I think you will want that more if you end up exemplaring down to level 30 (unless you make a second build specifically for that).
Same with Arctic Air and Kick, Freezing Rain and Tough. Right now if you were to drop down to level 20 for a Positron TF or something similar you'd be left without most of your core powers.
Also, you have the Force Feedback proc affecting your current totals. When you turn that off you can see that Hasten is far from perma--you need to move slots there.
IMO if you must take Shiver or Snow Storm, skip the other. Consider replacing with O2 Burst or something like Combat Jumping. -
You can try the Ice Control method, demonstrated in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIZyL9m4E1U
Efficient? Not completely, though not terrible either. Fun? I think it is in, in that "Showgirls is the best movie ever made" kind of way.
[This version includes a character with a few Incarnate powers but rest assured this is possible without them. The character in the video really wasn't specced for farming anyway and could have done a bit better with a different APP attack set and actual having his powers slotted for damage.] -
If it's helpful, here is a recent build I did for someone else that uses the Psi APP like I was describing. I actually didn't put either Shiver or Snow Storm in there. This is partly made up for because the Psi APP has -Recharge as well, so Psinado will tend to top off the -Recharge of a lot of enemies. I am really just not a fan of Shiver in general to be honest... especially the fact that it only lasts 18 seconds. It has always struck me as a big animation time investment for fairly little payoff, although I sometimes take it when there are leftover power slots and I can kind of see why someone people like it.
This build absolutely needs endurance support in the form of Cardiacs and is also greatly helped by picking up Ageless Destiny. However, it has 60% S/L Resistance, capped Psi defense and Ranged, and is more or less immune to being mezzed most of the time.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Ice Control
Secondary Power Set: Storm Summoning
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Psionic Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Block of Ice -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(3), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(3), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(5), Dmg-I(5), HO:Perox(13)
Level 1: Gale -- Acc-I(A)
Level 2: Frostbite -- GravAnch-Immob/Rchg(A), GravAnch-Hold%(15), GravAnch-Acc/Immob/Rchg(43), GravAnch-Immob/EndRdx(43), GravAnch-Acc/Rchg(46)
Level 4: Chilblain -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(17), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(19)
Level 6: Arctic Air -- CoPers-Conf(A), CoPers-Conf/EndRdx(7), CoPers-Conf%(7), CoPers-Conf/Rchg(9), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg(9), CoPers-Acc/Rchg(11)
Level 8: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(11), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 10: Steamy Mist -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(15), RedFtn-Def(19), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(23), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(25), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 12: Ice Slick -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Zephyr-ResKB(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(50)
Level 16: Freezing Rain -- RechRdx-I(A), Achilles-ResDeb%(17)
Level 18: O2 Boost -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal(29), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(29), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(31), Numna-Heal/Rchg(31), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 20: Hurricane -- DarkWD-ToHitDeb(A), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(21), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(21), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/Rchg(23)
Level 22: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 24: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 26: Glacier -- Lock-Acc/Hold(A), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(27), Lock-%Hold(27), Lock-Acc/Rchg(34), Lock-Rchg/Hold(36), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(36)
Level 28: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 30: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(37), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(37), RedFtn-Def(37), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(40), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(43)
Level 32: Jack Frost -- ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(A), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExRmnt-+Res(Pets)(33), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(33), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx(34), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34)
Level 35: Mental Blast -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(40), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40)
Level 38: Indomitable Will -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RechRdx-I(39), RechRdx-I(42), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 41: Lightning Storm -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(46), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46)
Level 44: Psionic Tornado -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(48), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dam%(50)
Level 47: Tornado -- Dmg-I(A), Dmg-I(48)
Level 49: Mind Over Body -- ResDam-I(A)
Level 50: Cardiac Core Paragon
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(50)
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Time will definitely be more survivable. I'm not sold on Poison yet. I'm not saying Poison is awful but I'm also not really impressed with it. Someone might find a way to make it great though.
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Quote:[EDIT: Tone and clarity]Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
I find this example pretty comical because the frame for the debate leading up to your post has been, "Well who cares about ranged damage?" Most blappers should still be able to fall back on a ranged chain, sidestepping the pbaoe dangers entirely, no? Indeed, much incarnate content has been focused on the idea of area denial in the hands of the enemy, and this is one place where blasters specifically shine. Blue patches, polarity shifts, pbaoes meant to one-shot tankers, none of it is relevant to someone who can continue applying DPS at long range.
I disagree that Blasters are "ranged" characters. I think they are characters pigeonholed to do damage whether that is ranged, PBAoE, or what have you. Increasing the dangers of melee range endangers Blasters and some other ATs precisely because they are not built to withstand those pressures. In another kind of game that would probably mean they wouldn't be given powers that ask them to risk melee range, but this game is designed differently. When the risk is low or moderate things can work out, but when it is sky high and designed to endanger characters who are much more survivable and essentially have immunity to "shutdown" powers like holds or stuns, it is much harder to justify. When a War Walker falls on top of you, it deals a stun, and I can guarantee that Stun isn't aimed at Scrappers or Brutes, so who else could it be?
In other words, what I am saying is that this is more complicated than just throwing more damage at melee characters and calling it a day. A significant portion of a Blaster's supposed damage advantage comes from close range powers, and if a Scrapper is being pushed out of range some of the time, chances are the Blaster is being pushed out much more frequently. -
Quote:Originally Posted by gec72
Should read "Transfusion (Kinetics)."
Very nice guide.
Oops, yep. And thanks.
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Quote:You are correct. I will fix this.Originally Posted by Gilia
The game's down, so I can't look at this. I've always done ctrl+left click, so I'm not sure if shift will work for this as well.
Good point. It could be "Accuracy" in PVP I suppose but much more commonly it would be ToHit (or possibly -Defense).Quote:Just because you're going over so many game terms, it might be worth nit picking this. I believe it's ToHit (as opposed to Accuracy) that blows through Defense.
Agreed. I will add Ranged to this descriptor.Quote:Just an inconsistency, because up t this point you've categorized the sets as "Ranged Defense," rather than simply "Defense."
For bizarre reasons, I frequently type "Recharge" when I mean "Endurance Modification." I also think there may be a few places I wrote "End Reduction" and not "End Mod."Quote:You accidently wrote Recharge IO there.
Hmm. I've never 4 slotted Stamina. Can you point to a build that does this?Quote:I feel you may want to make this even more general than it is. On heroes that I don't put the health +recovery procs, I usually do 4 slots in Stamina, and I could see this necessary being the case with newer players.
Thank you! I still have a lot of work to do. One thing specifically I want to add is much more detail about how to actually do the building and testing. I am also hoping to include a breakdown of how to do a build gradually (starting with the cheapest sets and moving upward). The main thing I'm struggling with is being a naturally long winded person.Quote:I really, really like the guide over all. The only content change I think you ought to make is to give more love to S/L Defense builds. I don't know where you could give it said love. The only one I noticed missing that I have used to soft cap for S/L is Enfeebled Operation for immobilizes.
Thanks for pointing out about Enfeebled Operation.