New Dawn

i rely on consume and haste for stamina, and after looking at making a tanker build that fits stamina in at 20 it hurt my eyes. It looked painful, I just couldnt be tanking like that. Id be getting key powers even later than i expected and for me it was out of the question. Tough at 26 is reasonable, with haste and consume you could be looking at tough as early as 22 with acrobatics at 20.
Id always take haymaker for greater dps before knockout blow if i was having both anyway, but i would work on getting stamina before rage no matter what.
Char is a pretty good hold duration with 1 slot for hold so imo its low on an acc.
Acrobatics requires atleast 2 endurance slots before you even contemplate slotting the fire shields for lower build endurance.
Blazing aura can easily miss if you are dealing with foes with -acc effect so 1 acc is a bit poo even when you have rage imo. Rage would be better 2 recharge slots. This is one build id have to be a perma rage person with and id have to force myself to get used to it but with consume thats not too bad.

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Well I hold it quite well and it works for me maybe we should team up so I can show u how well it works!!!

DD

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Another one breaking game mechanics:P the problems with blazing aura are solveable in so many ways but i still dont like it, if its meant to be offensive let it be the only one that autohits for damage and taunt i say.

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"I'm scraping for all the def(all) I can get my hands on, as there still is Psi damage out there that makes me go thump in the night. The difference is, as said, marginal, but I'd rather have it than not. I guess it's a psychological thing - like you don't bother, I feel safer knowing I've done all I can"

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I dont have nothing versus psionics on shannon and i still dont think that my tanker should go and look at lvl 52 mother mayhem and go "omg, omg!" i used to upto when i was nearing 50 but i have got through atleast 4 or 5 missions with her of that level unplanted. Try not being within 30ft of her and dont have anyone within 20 ft of you. You have done all that you can when you've a prepared plan versus her limitations and using what type of characters you have in the team. Having a recharge buff combined with haste to give me perma dull pain has been a great thing.

Sure you have children of anger on route to her, you can herd fast (hide before taunting flyby taunt) once they have herded up around you they may be debuffed and controlled (and those types of missions are a controllers domain too) then have the team kill *cough* "arrest" them fast.

With the right team you can get to her without using any insps in your AV kit once, not even with malaise in the way should it be the indoor one. Before you face the AV come up with a plan of how you need to things before any action as accidental pulls always plant the whole team unless someone has resists versus psi or got the hell out of the way.

I worry about the actions of the team more than any AV/enemy to be brutally honest.

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If slots are tight you might think about Provoke. It would help if you get slowed rather than supercharging Taunt

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powers look tight to me and 3 recharge and 3 taunt is exceptionally good for any non stone/ tank plus provoke isnt autohit.

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I expect to have to use RotP on a semi-regular basis and honestly I don’t give a monkey’s if I'm hitting the floor faster than a Blaster in Defiance, as long as I know when I go down, I’ll be back up in seconds, and I’m bringing a hell-storm of some sort with me.

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lol spoken like a true fire tanker!

After testing all types of tanks in DA (where a major amount of secondary effects are all at lvl 22 on test server) it occured to me that it could be possible especially whilst soloing for my fire/firetanker to make equal to or more xp per minute than my inv/ss, stone/stone and ice/ice whilst being capped for debt even. In light if this i was thinking "you know RotP is still pretty cool why not have fun with it?". My only concerns is for other members of a kept team to be outlevelling me so i wouldnt be looking to use it everytime it recharged but just do my fair share of planting. Difference with this tanker dying is that you can immediately reherd and so not a worry.

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I'll be taking fossilize at 47 to deal with Malta Sappers and Rage at 49 to get the ToHit buff when getting attacked with -acc attacks to keep footstomp hitting and to give a boost to damage when such is needed.

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Malta arcs start at 40, i would be looking for a hold by then if possible *nods to knockout blow* and shifting things to a later date. I know fossilize you cant get to level 44 but if 44 is the earliest then thats when id have that too. Maybe you will not exemp.

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This is really defensive build, for some "old school" tanking, as opposed to scranking. At present the most used tactic is to jump in, footstomp and then taunt those that missed and wait for the team to clean up. Works like a charm.

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That is basically it, but if its a bunch of nems with flame throwers i like them all to be facing my way, but most likely on **** teams ive ran into the mob, got to the back of them, havent so much as taunted or footstomped and someone has half the group chasing them:P. "Has anyone ever heard of the word ready? Do i need to explain tanking to a bunch of level 49's or 50's? Ah bull later guys!" *log toon*. I am doing that now to drum seriousness into people.

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01) --> Temp Invulnerability==> DmgRes(1) DmgRes(3) DmgRes(3) EndRdx(40)

06) --> Combat Jumping==> DefBuf(6) DefBuf(11) DefBuf(13) EndRdx(43)

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Dont look at lowering the end cost of each individual power, look instead at lowering the endurance cost of the whole build and besides combat jump uses relatively next to none anyway. You would save more on endurance by not slotting combat jump but by slotting another end red on another toggle in this case it could be temp invuln and you save more endurance by having 2 endurance slots on temp invuln on the build then you would cutting the endurance cost of combat jump. You are also really squeezing out extra defence here. If i boost anything by a decimal place i dont bother. I have attacks that can cut my fight duration down lowering the time i have to sustain damage for and make those decimal place percentages count for nothing overall.


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10) --> Taunt==> Taunt(10) Taunt(15) Taunt(17) Rechg(17) Rechg(19) Rechg(19)

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This is supercharged in case your slowed or something i take it, what you do have is a taunt bit build but there is ample taunt duration here and more than enough recharge, i would find range of possibly good value instead of a 3rd recharge especially as you have haste.


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32) --> Unstoppable==> DmgRes(32) DmgRes(34) Rechg(34) Rechg(36) Rechg(36)

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With just one damage resistance plus passives you are at res cap so 2 damage resistances is a bit of a waste, but i dont think end mods are.

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38) --> Foot Stomp==> Acc(38) Acc(39) Dmg(39) Dmg(39) Dmg(40) Rechg(40)

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when you run this with rage you should only need 1 accuracy so an endurance slot would be good.

Slotting is pretty good apart from the empty in tough really which i am sure is a mistake. You say you are 29 so do you have aid self already and does it work alright? My super reflex can get interrupted with her aid self and she has more defense than you will ever have. I have to ask because id be more inclined to get the passives before med pool. The thought off me playing with aid self trying to use it when i should be scanning and looking to keep aggro of a defender that has absorb pain puts me off the idea. Id like to know if it works ok though.
The secondaries are very important to survivability i find. Your attacks are lacking powers with the secondary effects that would normally help me to do certain enemies for myself or atleast fight on better terms.
I could make my build more defensive but at the sacrifice of less offensiveness and so i have to fight for longer.
I have come up with a similar build in the past but without the med pool, I have a lot of faith in defenders and controllers which can be naive of me as one persons dark defender may not be played as or built as good as anothers. The other day i met one whose slots were empty!

oh and 1 dam res is good enough for unstoppable with your passives.

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20) --> Ice Patch==> EndRdx(20) EndRdx(34) EndRdx(34) Rechg(34) Rechg(36)

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The Recharges I can understand but three End Redux in a power that only costs about 10 End every 30 seconds?

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Mr A can be pure comedy bless him!

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44) --> Focused Accuracy==> TH_Buf(44) TH_Buf(45) TH_Buf(46) Rechg(46) Rechg(46) Rechg(48)

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Id swap the 3 rechg in focused accuracy for end reduxes.

The level you have picked some powers i am not keen on and the level at which you have some slotted powers i am not keen on ill be back with what i would be ok with (i dont have a fire/ice but i do have a fire/fire and a ice/ice)

ok back using Mr A's power choices and from what i can combine in my head i did this:

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Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
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Name:
Level: 50
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Fiery Aura
Secondary: Ice Melee
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01) --> Fire Shield==> DmgRes(1) DmgRes(9) DmgRes(9) EndRdx(42)
01) --> Frozen Fists==> Acc(1) Rechg(11) EndRdx(27)
02) --> Healing Flames==> Rechg(2) Rechg(3) Rechg(3) Heal(5) Heal(5) Heal(15)
04) --> Blazing Aura==> EndRdx(4) Acc(15) Acc(17) Dam(17) Dam(25) Taunt(43)(2acc+foc acc is alot and your taunt will help to keep aggro versus tsoo and storm shamans, spectral daemons etc if you exemp)
06) --> Hasten==> Rechg(6) Rechg(7) Rechg(7)
08) --> Combat Jumping==> DefBuf(8)
10) --> Taunt==> Rechg(10) Rechg(11) Taunt(27) Taunt(40) Range(43)
12) --> Plasma Shield==> DmgRes(12) DmgRes(13) DmgRes(13) EndRdx(43) why you left it late i dont know
14) --> Super Jump==> EndRdx or jump(14) i forget to turn powers off hence i suggested end slotting it
16) --> Consume==> Acc(16) Rechg(19) Rechg(19) Rechg(21) EndMod(21) Acc(25)
18) --> Burn==> Rechg(18) Rechg(23) Rechg(37) Dmg(48) Dmg(48) Dmg(50)i prolly slotted this late, i dont actually have it myself.
20) --> Acrobatics==> EndRdx(20) EndRdx(31)
22) --> Ice Patch==> Rechg(22) Rechg(23) Rechg(34) EndRdx(48)
24) --> Swift==> Run(24)
26) --> Boxing==> Acc(26) EndRdx(46)
28) --> Health==> Heal(28) Heal(29) Heal(29)
30) --> Stamina==> EndMod(30) EndMod(31) EndMod(31)
32) --> Tough==> EndRdx(32) EndRdx(33) EndRdx(33) DmgRes(33) DmgRes(34) DmgRes(34)
35) --> Greater Ice Sword==> Acc(35) EndRdx(36) Dmg(36) Dmg(36) Dmg(37) Rechg(37)
38) --> Freezing Touch==> Acc(38) Acc(39) Hold(39) Hold(39) Rechg(40) Rechg(40)
41) --> Conserve Power==> Rechg(41) Rechg(42) Rechg(42)
44) --> Focused Accuracy==> EndRdx(44) EndRdx(45) EndRdx(45) TH_Buf(45) TH_Buf(46) TH_Buf(46)
47) --> Rise of the Phoenix==> Rechg(47)
49) --> Fiery Embrace==> Rechg(49) Rechg(50) Rechg(50)
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01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Gauntlet==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
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01) --> Frozen Fists==> Acc(1) Acc(7) Acc(7) Rechg(15) Rechg(37) -----1 rechg is fast enough to perma gauntlet low level with relative no risk to being slowed imo and 2 acc is fine have an endurance slot, thats 1 slot saved to go elsewhere

04) --> Chilling Embrace==> EndRdx(4) Taunt(40) Taunt(43)----its nice you could have atleast 1 slow versus dispersion powers like peoples freezing rain or rain of fire or caltrops, if you have icicles you only need to turn this on at herdpoint and ppl can use this as a sign that your ready for them to attack.

10) --> Taunt==> Taunt(10) Taunt(11) Taunt(11)----2 rechg 2 taunt for kiting av's and spamming different directions.

12) --> Swift==> Run(12) Run(13) Run(15)----wow will your aura get a chance to tick over a taunt pulse?

14) --> Super Speed==> Run(14) Run(46)----id end slot it incase u leave it on plus the amount of runspeeds in swift are stacking

18) --> Boxing==> Acc(18) Acc(19) Acc(19) Rechg(21) Rechg(48)----1 end 1 rechg 2 acc is fine but as your an icetank with taunt you have little need for gauntletting should save slots really but definately have an end red in each attack

20) --> Ice Patch==> Rechg(20) Rechg(21)----most have 2, i have 3 for extra control versus knockbacks
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24) --> Tough==> DmgRes(24) DmgRes(25) DmgRes(25) EndRdx(27)----needs 2-3 endurance slots or you will find it draining normally but maybe not with your attack chain:P

26) --> Energy Absorbtion==> DefBuf(26) DefBuf(27) EndMod(29) EndMod(29) Rechg(33) Rechg(34)----3 defbuff, 3 rechg for pve.


30) --> Weave==> DefBuf(30) DefBuf(31) DefBuf(31) EndRdx(31)----needs 2-3 end reductions its draining but maybe ok with your attack chain

32) --> Glacial Armor==> DefBuf(32) DefBuf(33) DefBuf(33) EndRdx(34) fine but taken a bit late imo

35) --> Aid Self==> Heal(35) Heal(36) Heal(36) IntRdx(36) Rechg(37) Rechg(37)----6 slotted is main thing u can adjust whats in them later

38) --> Hibernate==> Rechg(38) Rechg(39) Heal(40) Heal(40)----find out when you play

41) --> Block of Ice==> Acc(41) Acc(42) Hold(42) Hold(42) Hold(43) Rechg(43)----find out when you play

The order of powers is a bit ropey to me, i dont know why have tough and even weave as early as they are when you have ice patch, also a hold pre 40's for sappers is nice as well as having a hold at 41. The build up is wasted on your attacks really and id of wanted icicles to be killing whats around me all at once to reduce fight duration. Frozen aura is acceptable when you have control over how the team plays.

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A Tank without tank is still a tank.

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Amused me slightly. A tank is a tank, you either want to team with them or you dont and they either want to team with you or they dont. There are many different ideas of what a tanker must do to the team and there are many different ideas of what a team must do for the tank. I only tank for people who share my idea otherwise i dont see myself as playing a tank sometimes i am just "bye bye!" and log to play another toon (any excuse). If i so much as have to tell people to back up way behind my herdpoint they're unworthy of me . Sometimes you've only so much as looked at the enemy and the team has already rushed in like a rabied pack of wolves with xp/time in mind, i dont play that way or stay in teams like that.

"This is a PvP Zone - You wanna Duel go to the Arena."

That i can understand on live servers, but during the test server weekend where people could level upto 40, people in 8 man teams ganked complete loners. What could be the result of that testing i dont know, the point of getting pvp ratings isnt there on test so do they go "this build is great i can beat that brute with 7 people in my team to help me!"?

I'd like to do it with my sonic/sonic corrupter Ghost Banshee if i may.

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if your without fitness especially like i am

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How can you do anything else without Stamina?
I struggle with attacks with 1 end red SOs in every toggle with Stamina 3 slotted with SO and I only have 2 attacks

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Well i think its sick and twisted the way i have to do stuff but no different really to my firetank that has no fitness either.

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1) You cant tank without taunt.
Clearly this has been proven wrong by now. Why else people say that they have been able to "tank" as Defenders, Controllers, Scrappers, Kheldians in Dwarf form, Brutes and Masterminds. I dont believe for a second that either of them would have been as efficient as a Tank, but obviously good enough to warrant the duty of "tanking".

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They are misusing the word tank to define what they do as tanking.

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hence my use of quotation marks.

Clearly the definition of "tanking" varies, but it doesnt help when there are people who are trying to push for their own biased definition.

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Well a tanker isnt tanking anything on teams without taunt control and the higher your level of taunt control the more likely you are to be able to be doing the tanking (tanking is getting beats and absorbing them).

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1) You cant tank without taunt.
Clearly this has been proven wrong by now. Why else people say that they have been able to "tank" as Defenders, Controllers, Scrappers, Kheldians in Dwarf form, Brutes and Masterminds. I dont believe for a second that either of them would have been as efficient as a Tank, but obviously good enough to warrant the duty of "tanking".

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They are misusing the word tank to define what they do as tanking.

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Next Question : As the Villain's Tank is a mixture of the Mastermind and the Brute, why can one not take it and the other not want to take it?

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I will pick Taunt on my Brute at lvl 24 (currently lvl 22), I had to pick my shields and Acrobatics before getting it, but I have my taunt aura (Death Shroud), self heal and just a couple of attacks.
I found out that if the teams let me 'herd' the doms and corruptors can just let the AoE loose, the stalkers can pick their target with ease and my Fury is always full due to the huge amount of aggro I can get
Now that I can survive properly I'll be focusing completely on my primary, by putting together a proper attack chain

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Hey same as what i done! From a personal point of view when i am higher in levels i will respec things abit better for taunt earlier because as a dark brute anyother tank stealing numbers from me on 1st sf (prolly never happen:P) could be painful. But the taunt beats the aura so you can nick foes for much needed survivability.
I do like dark brutes, if your without fitness especially like i am, you need to herd and you need to keep aggro for maximum optimisation for reasons other than fury even if people say they dont need you to herd, you do.

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And now that Rad and Dark defenders are popular, you want to be getting tight clusters as much as possible.

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I hate it when tanks dont make or arent given time to make tight clusters in one spot to prevent people having personal battles as an empath. As my empath i shouldnt even have to need to heal anyone other than the tanker but for aoes and possibly cones hitting people. I should be a buffing set and when it comes to cones especially i sure as hell cant prevent people from standing where they do.

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But none of those three auras can reliably hold aggro up to the aggro cap by themselves

[/ QUOTE ]And yet I continously do that with CE...go figure.

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Its not just using CE though is it, its CE and gauntlet, and no aura is completely reliable to hold aggro of upto the aggro cap, people use knockbacks, scatter powers like rain of fire etc are less troublesome with chilling embrace. You are taunting and not taunting and then taunting again with CE in trying to use that on more mobs than it can physically hit. I can see how it works, dont get me wrong and i can see how you keep aggro, the nearer the level to you the easier its done too.

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However, I think you can actually contribute far more to TEAM damage by keeping every mob packed closed to you, so the blaster can spam those AoE without fear of death.

Ive noticed that "loose ends" distract other ATs.. they become concerned with their own safety, and the whole team looses efficiency in that way.

So, it sometimes behoves one to taunt first, attack second. I think this is a valid tactic (by all means attack but just do it carefully not spamming it) on occassion.

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Thats it right there, if i had another attack instead of taunt the teams would of lost overall efficiency.

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I think what MaX may be getting at, and I've seen it myself, is that some taunting tanks seem to just taunt.

Stand in the middle of the mob and hit taunt over and over again, sometimes not even bothering to use their attacks.

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If thats what is needed to be done sometimes to keep mobs its whats needed to be done. I like to taunt, hit, taunt, hit because sometimes i have to, the hit is there while taunt is recharging the aoes make a big difference and i certainly like to use them when they are in offer. My tank couldnt be more offensive really as the attack chain is solid without using my hurl and if i skipped taunt for an attack id have 2 spare attacks on offer and be it if it were i chose the last remaining secondary over taunt it would of been handclap. I couldnt see handclap helping the team much.

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So thats a bit misleading. A tank with taunt has far from ZERO offensive capability. It is simply slightly less than the tank with taunt.

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And even then it all comes out in the wash. I have taunt and ALL the attacks in the set. I seriously doubt there's a tank out there who's noticeably more offensively able than me simply because they didn't take taunt.

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With the effects of quicksand it can be hard to get to mobs with your aura and so taunt is nice. I remember when some of their effects stacked it was a right pain in butt.

Most important thing to do as your tanker is refelct back to when you played your defender and look at all the things the tankers have done in the past that made you less effective.

Did they not wait for you to buff other people or them?
Did they run in to a small room with a herd or pull forward for too long blocking themselves from heals?
Was it a small room of jaegers that people felt compelled to fight in and had no way of escaping the aoes?
Did they force you to run past mobs just to get to them?
Did they not herd up making you have to heal the team instead of just the tank?
Did they try to direct the line of fire away from teams so that cone type mezz effects or attacks are directed away from you?

Or maybe they were going to before that n00b scrapper and co jumped in and started fighting before the tanker got to finish the herd and consolidation part of things.

Builds are one thing but actually playing to suit the defensive sets in the team is imo what tankers should really be trying to do for survivability.

If you were /ss the rage and foc acc would sort the accuracy of taunt for you. Mine is 2 rechg 2 taunt 1 range (range for some long forgotten reason really) and i run foc acc and rage and i dont need acc in taunt for pvp really unless theyre eluded or something. I dont understand combat kick over combat jump and i dont understand superjump i would as i do hurl find the hurl boulder a serious thankyou power in pvp, i just love it to bits. Slotting stimulant like that is a serious dont bother thing.

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As i have said you can not constantly keep 17 foes taunted with an aura. You would need to slot 3 taunt durations to effect 10 on one tick for as long as possible, while jump to the others and effect the other 7, then jump back and reaffect the first 10. Now how long does 3 taunt durations last? Its hard to measure, but on all my tanks i have tried.

[/ QUOTE ]That depends on the aura. CE either applies instantly, or ticks at a VERY fast rate, so it's perfectly possible to keep 17 with it. I don't have that much experience on the other auras.

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The tick for the actual taunt component is nothing special, i have other tanks to compare it to, the debuff itself is a good aggro getter but that also can only effect 10 at a time.

You dont necessarily need taunt to tank but with the bonuses that secondary taunt gives id much rather a tanker with, than without from any perspective and some powerset combinations require it more really than others.

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Just to answer the OP, NO.
I don't understand the reason why you shouldn't pick THE defining power of tankers.

[/ QUOTE ]Except that taunt isn't the defining power, not after aggro caps got implemented...Aggro aura is.

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Aggro cap is 17, does your aura constantly always taunt 17?

No its impossible.

It cant do better than 10.

[/ QUOTE ]It can, as I've stated previously in this thread.

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it cant

maximillian you are wrong

[/ QUOTE ]First of all, the name is MaXimillion, not maximillian.
Secondly, while the target limit at one tick is 10, if you move around you can keep 17 people aggroed just with your aura.

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As i have said you can not constantly keep 17 foes taunted with an aura. You would need to slot 3 taunt durations to effect 10 on one tick for as long as possible, while jump to the others and effect the other 7, then jump back and reaffect the first 10. Now how long does 3 taunt durations last? Its hard to measure, but on all my tanks i have tried. It would be nice if the base taunt duration was enough on its on to last the duration between ticks but it isnt. You need at least 1 taunt duration to cover the gap between taunt pulses. Which means with 3 taunt durations it would take you from the 1st taunt pulse to half way between the 2nd and 3rd taunt pulse then, so basically it wouldnt happen and so you have a window of foes not effected by taunt.

You get this with 3 slotted aura for taunt

Taunt pulse - first set foes have a taunt duration
You jump to second set of foes
2nd taunt pulse - second set of foes have a taunt duration
You jump to first set of foes on whom the taunt duration will run out. Then with the 3rd taunt pulse you reclaim the first set and jump to the 2nd set who will have taunt worn off before the 4th taunt pulse reclaims them.

Thats not constantly always taunted with an aura.

With a tanks aura unslotted for taunt i can pull a foe on the outer perimeter of the aura and then the foe could kill me. Because the aura has a small window of no taunt a foe on the perimeter is easier to remove than a foe next to the tank. Now say you're just using an aura to affect 2 groups you will leave a bigger window of taunt duration on both groups than a tanker whose aura is unslotted for taunt on 1 group.

Effects of your gauntlet especially icicles if they hit will cover everything so all foes, not will, but could remain taunted throughout what you do. I am not saying how you tank wouldnt work and cant keep aggro without taunt because you can most of the time.