Looks pretty solid. I'd propably drop FE for haymaker, FE just aint good enough without fire melee. I'd also consider aid self instead of tough, but don't have numbers at hand for which one would be better survivability boost.
Oh, and you'll want at least 2, myabe 3 recharges in rage to get it perma, AFAIK.
Rage with Hasten is Perma with 2 recharge SOs, not one.
I wouldn't consider a Fire Tanker without the Fighting pool, it really is essential. With SOs my fire tank was still feeling a bit squishy.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
I could easily put another recharge in Rage, this build is not at all slot greedy. My builder made it look very nearly perma with 1 recharge and Hasten, but it's been wrong before..
Regarding FE, I think it's going to be worth it just for the 20 seconds of uber-aura but it'll also help the epics and of course the normal attacks for the first 10 seconds. Rage+FE+Foot Stomp+KO Blow+Fireball+Fire blast while Blazing Aura does ticks of nearly double the normal (enhanced) damage on the background sounds like a lot, at least on paper. Not sure how it'd compare to having Haymaker and using it whenever it's up, but in general AoE damage seems preferable.
I think Medicine would be a much better survivability boost, actually, but without Boxing I'd definitely need Haymaker and I'd generally prefer a toggle to an interruptible heal, just because it's low maintenance.
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I could easily put another recharge in Rage, this build is not at all slot greedy. My builder made it look very nearly perma with 1 recharge and Hasten, but it's been wrong before..
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If you have Hasten perma, Rage is Perma with one recharge. But because Hasten is only 2/3rd of the time and they are both 2 minute duration you get a downtime between 0 and 30 seconds with 1 recharge. With 2 recharges you get an overlap of between 0 and 20 seconds. I tend not to overlap rage unless i'm not paying attention as you lose 10 seconds of the second rage in the first one's crash. Also it means you crash for longer. Rage does take some getting used to.
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I think Medicine would be a much better survivability boost, actually, but without Boxing I'd definitely need Haymaker and I'd generally prefer a toggle to an interruptible heal, just because it's low maintenance.
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Tough the damage you take against S/L. That has to be a must have power. I've heard that some fire tanks take Aid Self in a respec build instead of Healing Flames.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
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I could easily put another recharge in Rage, this build is not at all slot greedy. My builder made it look very nearly perma with 1 recharge and Hasten, but it's been wrong before..
Regarding FE, I think it's going to be worth it just for the 20 seconds of uber-aura but it'll also help the epics and of course the normal attacks for the first 10 seconds. Rage+FE+Foot Stomp+KO Blow+Fireball+Fire blast while Blazing Aura does ticks of nearly double the normal (enhanced) damage on the background sounds like a lot, at least on paper. Not sure how it'd compare to having Haymaker and using it whenever it's up, but in general AoE damage seems preferable.
I think Medicine would be a much better survivability boost, actually, but without Boxing I'd definitely need Haymaker and I'd generally prefer a toggle to an interruptible heal, just because it's low maintenance.
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Rage and FE is an awesome combo and well worth having at some point.
Aid Self with 2 slotted reduce interupt works even through DoT, but whether its worth it on a fire tank is another matter tough would be much better if you ask me.
thePhilosopher Martial Arts/Regen/Fire Scrapper
theRegulator Empathy/Energy/Soul Defender
Total Inertia Ice Blast/Kinetics/Psy Corruptor
Total Inferno Ice Blast/Thermal/Leviathan Corruptor
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Looks pretty solid. I'd propably drop FE for haymaker, FE just aint good enough without fire melee.
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I'd have to disagree on that one, FE is awesome when coupled with SS.
Personal preference but id loose one of the acc's in consume, with the end mod it only needs to hit a few foes for full endurance gain. I would also swap RoTF for haymaker and re-jig the power order. Apart from that looks good! 
i rely on consume and haste for stamina, and after looking at making a tanker build that fits stamina in at 20 it hurt my eyes. It looked painful, I just couldnt be tanking like that. Id be getting key powers even later than i expected and for me it was out of the question. Tough at 26 is reasonable, with haste and consume you could be looking at tough as early as 22 with acrobatics at 20.
Id always take haymaker for greater dps before knockout blow if i was having both anyway, but i would work on getting stamina before rage no matter what.
Char is a pretty good hold duration with 1 slot for hold so imo its low on an acc.
Acrobatics requires atleast 2 endurance slots before you even contemplate slotting the fire shields for lower build endurance.
Blazing aura can easily miss if you are dealing with foes with -acc effect so 1 acc is a bit poo even when you have rage imo. Rage would be better 2 recharge slots. This is one build id have to be a perma rage person with and id have to force myself to get used to it but with consume thats not too bad.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
This is Kinda a radical solution but if you dont want your rage over lapping, couldnt you use a combonation of DO's and SO's maybe to a lesser extent TO's to get it as close as possible? if 1 rechge SO + hasten gives it a 30 sec downtime what would (recharge 1 SO + recharge 1 DO + hasten) do for it? or maybe(recharge 2 DO's + hasten) i could probably work it out but its 2:30 am and i cant be bothered :P
quick question..if they overlap..do the effects such as +acc and +dmg stack? (i severly doubt it though)
"an eye for an eye can only lead to blindness"
"am i a clown for wearing a smile...or are you a fool to try and stop me?"
Degzy_G ProductionZ inc
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quick question..if they overlap..do the effects such as +acc and +dmg stack? (i severly doubt it though)
[/ QUOTE ]Yes.
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quick question..if they overlap..do the effects such as +acc and +dmg stack? (i severly doubt it though)
[/ QUOTE ]Yes.
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Stacked rage is awesome in terms of damage but the more frequent down time means its not desirable.
thePhilosopher Martial Arts/Regen/Fire Scrapper
theRegulator Empathy/Energy/Soul Defender
Total Inertia Ice Blast/Kinetics/Psy Corruptor
Total Inferno Ice Blast/Thermal/Leviathan Corruptor
Well since my last post I bagged a dark/dark defender to play this with and solved most of the survivability problems that way. 
It also means I now have to fit Burn into the build...
For now I'm looking at skipping Haymaker and Consume (or getting them much later) and pushing Taunt into 20s or 30s, depending on how much I feel I need it. I felt I could hold aggro reasonably well so far (level 6) and it should get easier once Gauntlet starts working and I get some better acc enhancements slotted. Endurance is decidedly not a problem with Boxing and Jab as main attacks, but Blazing Aura does an excellent job at whittling down mobs when combined with Tar Patch.
Anyone know if the origin power is affected by Gauntlet?
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I felt I could hold aggro reasonably well so far (level 6) and it should get easier once Gauntlet starts working and I get some better acc enhancements slotted.
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No it shouldnt get easier, it does in fact get harder depending on who you come up against as your aura will miss. Gauntlet applies to any attack a tanker will make. The greater the amount of endurance the attack costs the greater the level of gauntlet. High endurance attacks are usually of long recharge and the only decent gauntlets you would have providing they dont miss. Go out turn off your aura and jab, box and brawl something and see how easy it is to keep aggro with that off a blaster, then imagine that when your blazing aura misses because of a tsoo sorceror or a storm shaman or even your out of endurance due to gauntletting so much and having -end effects you cant use anything.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I felt I could hold aggro reasonably well so far (level 6) and it should get easier once Gauntlet starts working and I get some better acc enhancements slotted.
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No it shouldnt get easier, it does in fact get harder depending on who you come up against as your aura will miss. Gauntlet applies to any attack a tanker will make. The greater the amount of endurance the attack costs the greater the level of gauntlet. High endurance attacks are usually of long recharge and the only decent gauntlets you would have providing they dont miss. Go out turn off your aura and jab, box and brawl something and see how easy it is to keep aggro with that off a blaster, then imagine that when your blazing aura misses because of a tsoo sorceror or a storm shaman or even your out of endurance due to gauntletting so much and having -end effects you cant use anything.
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so, youre telling me that ET, that costs no endurance.. isnt affected by gauntlet? 
UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.
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I felt I could hold aggro reasonably well so far (level 6) and it should get easier once Gauntlet starts working and I get some better acc enhancements slotted.
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No it shouldnt get easier, it does in fact get harder depending on who you come up against as your aura will miss. Gauntlet applies to any attack a tanker will make. The greater the amount of endurance the attack costs the greater the level of gauntlet. High endurance attacks are usually of long recharge and the only decent gauntlets you would have providing they dont miss. Go out turn off your aura and jab, box and brawl something and see how easy it is to keep aggro with that off a blaster, then imagine that when your blazing aura misses because of a tsoo sorceror or a storm shaman or even your out of endurance due to gauntletting so much and having -end effects you cant use anything.
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so, youre telling me that ET, that costs no endurance.. isnt affected by gauntlet?
[/ QUOTE ]Actually, AFAIK, the only thing endurance has to do with gauntlet is that the chance the attack has to taunt in PvP is affected by it. It shouldn't matter for PvE, but not 100% on that.
Gauntlet doesn't seem to work from level one, though. With my ice tanker there was a specific level I noticed it started working, IIRC. Might have been 10. This guide says nothing about it though, but it also claims that Gauntlet has a fixed magnitude (but varied AoE).
I do not want this thread to turn into a is a tanker without a taunt a tanker thread. I will get it the minute I start having trouble holding aggro without it, and in the 30s at the latest.
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so, youre telling me that ET, that costs no endurance.. isnt affected by gauntlet?
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If ET = Enrgy Transfer, I must say that it deffo costs some endurance, it looks like 10-12, a lot less than Total Focus, but still it has an endurance cost.
Gauntlet definitely starts at L1.
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so, youre telling me that ET, that costs no endurance.. isnt affected by gauntlet?
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If ET = Enrgy Transfer, I must say that it deffo costs some endurance, it looks like 10-12, a lot less than Total Focus, but still it has an endurance cost.
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aha, clearly a misunderstanding on my part. For some reason i believed ET only cost hit points instead of endurance. (I thought it was weird you could slot it with endredux when there was no end cost at all..)
on another note, i thought the level of gauntlet wasnt from the end cost, but from the actual damage as i recall Bridger saying something about it..
UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.
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Gauntlet definitely starts at L1.
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It seems to start around level 5. I was the blaster companion to Idris' Ice tank. Before level 5 there was spilt aggro everywhere. Of course at level 5 blasters are quite tough so it doesn't matter too much.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
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so, youre telling me that ET, that costs no endurance.. isnt affected by gauntlet?
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If ET = Enrgy Transfer, I must say that it deffo costs some endurance, it looks like 10-12, a lot less than Total Focus, but still it has an endurance cost.
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aha, clearly a misunderstanding on my part. For some reason i believed ET only cost hit points instead of endurance. (I thought it was weird you could slot it with endredux when there was no end cost at all..)
on another note, i thought the level of gauntlet wasnt from the end cost, but from the actual damage as i recall Bridger saying something about it..
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I think it is from the power level of the attack, generally endurance and recharge are also based on the same thing. So an expensive attack has more taunt effect. Energy Transfer just moves the cost from endurance to hitpoints.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
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on another note, i thought the level of gauntlet wasnt from the end cost, but from the actual damage as i recall Bridger saying something about it..
[/ QUOTE ]Gauntlet isn't based on the damage, but 'threat' is.
until someone points out a post which describes EXACTLY how gauntlet works.. all this is speculations anyway.
preferably a dev, but someone who has hacked the code will suffice.
UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.
[ QUOTE ]
until someone points out a post which describes EXACTLY how gauntlet works.. all this is speculations anyway.
preferably a dev, but someone who has hacked the code will suffice.
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I believe Shannon had done some testing on the way gauntlet works although I could be mistaken. If no testing had been done then I would be happy to do some if someone with a blaster or scrapper* wants to help out.
Note I said blaster or scrapper as ideally testing would need a high damage alt and not another tank as that would be pointless.
id just like to say, I dont condone hacking the files in any way....
UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.
I'm enjoying my ice/fire tanker so much that I want to make another tanker, with SS secondary because it looks like fun. I'm not making another Ice, Stone is not an option and I want a damage aura to combine with Rage, so that pretty much leaves Fire. Any opinions on this sketchy build plan? I don't have any real experience with Fiery Aura or SS beyond teaming pretty extensively with people who have them.
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name:
Level: 50
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Fiery Aura
Secondary: Super Strength
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Fire Shield==> DmgRes(1) DmgRes(3) DmgRes(3) EndRdx(17)
01) --> Jab==> Acc(1) EndRdx(23)
02) --> Blazing Aura==> Acc(2) Dmg(7) Dmg(7) Dmg(11) EndRdx(11) EndRdx(13)
04) --> Healing Flames==> Heal(4) Heal(5) Heal(5) Rechg(9) Rechg(9) Rechg(13)
06) --> Boxing==> Acc(6) EndRdx(23)
08) --> Combat Jumping==> DefBuf(8)
10) --> Taunt==> Rechg(10) Taunt(37) Taunt(40) Taunt(43)
12) --> Plasma Shield==> DmgRes(12) DmgRes(15) DmgRes(15) EndRdx(17)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14)
16) --> Hurdle==> Jump(16)
18) --> Health==> Heal(18) Heal(19) Heal(19)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20) EndMod(21) EndMod(21)
22) --> Acrobatics==> EndRdx(22)
24) --> Knockout Blow==> Acc(24) Dmg(25) Dmg(25) Dmg(33) EndRdx(34) Rechg(34)
26) --> Tough==> DmgRes(26) DmgRes(27) DmgRes(27) EndRdx(31) EndRdx(46)
28) --> Rage==> Rechg(28) TH_Buf(29) TH_Buf(29) TH_Buf(34)
30) --> Hasten==> Rechg(30) Rechg(31) Rechg(31)
32) --> Fiery Embrace==> Rechg(32) Rechg(33) Rechg(33)
35) --> Consume==> Acc(35) Acc(36) EndMod(36) Rechg(36) Rechg(37) Rechg(37)
38) --> Foot Stomp==> Acc(38) Dmg(39) Dmg(39) Dmg(39) EndRdx(40) Rechg(40)
41) --> Char==> Acc(41) Hold(42) Hold(42) Hold(42) Rechg(43) Rechg(43)
44) --> Fire Blast==> Acc(44) Dmg(45) Dmg(45) Dmg(45) Rechg(46) EndRdx(46)
47) --> Fire Ball==> Acc(47) Dmg(48) Dmg(48) Dmg(48) EndRdx(50) Rechg(50)
49) --> Rise of the Phoenix==> DisDur(49) DisDur(50)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Gauntlet==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
---------------------------------------------
Some thoughts:
<ul type="square"> [*]This build has zero offensive upside beyond Blazing Aura before level 24. Am I going to be useless before SOs or is this build going to be tough enough to handle aggro on DOs? Should I get Tough earlier? I'm really unsure of the power order from mid 20s to mid 30s.[*] I'm gutted to leave out Burn and especially Haymaker. This build relies heavily on Blazing Aura, boosted by perma Rage and Fiery Embrace 1/3-1/4 of the time it should do ticks of 2.3 BI damage, which looks amazing on paper. Considering that, maybe I should go for more damage instead of longevity and drop Fighting to get Burn and Haymaker in. Would I still be able to tank reasonably well? I don't mind needing some support to tank for a 8 man team but there are limits.[*] As an alternative idea, I'm wondering if I could drop Consume to get Haymaker? I haven't done any calculations but it looks like a pretty endurance intensive build. [*] This is an offensive tanker, not a scranker, but considering how much defense fire tankers give up to get their damage I figured I'd better make the damage worth it. [/list]