Nefarious_EU

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If its ne-one fault for what happen its yours and 3 others for not listening

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So that would make half of the team on your side and half of the team on other side? well there goes the "we have more ammo" part.

Tbh, this whole discussion is silly and has a big "yeah-ah!" "nuh-uh!" to it. Not to mention afaik naming and shaming and flaming is against the board rules. Please now dont refrain to the "HE started it!" discussion I foresee coming now as that wont be any constructive either would it?

I can see DB's annoyance from the team, and frankly I probably wouldve been annoyed in the same situation. The discussion however has gotten way outta hand here and I'd advice the both of you to drop the weapons, agree to not team together anymore or whatever and just stop degenerating this thread even further.

Statements like "we got more ammo on you" or "you are not competent" wont get you any further does it? So whats the need for stating those things? Just end this discussion cause the way its going now will only get it locked and/or deleted.

hm doubtful if i'm able to make it in the end.. but i'll try (yup, exams es-you-see-kay-es)

aye, thats the biggest difference. The other one is imo katana has a bit more "elegance" to it. With what i mean if you chain attacks it seems a bit more fluid compared to BS' "hey you.." *THWACK*

but yea, the biggest diff is sustained damage vs burst damage. Even though with proper slotting at the higher lvls you can get some nice high damage chains in BS with little downtime between attacks.

and dont forget -fly on their ranged attack.. impale is just a really nasty thing to get hit with in PvP. If you go pure damage, BS is best, however if you want a nice mix of quite decent damage and some soft control (i.e. immob, slow, -fly), then spines is the way to go. As secondary I'd say either regen or SR

dont think duels are a good way of pitting new players against each other, as they might not have the cookie cutter builds needed. Think the best way of introducing people to PvP is team PvP for several reasons:

1) as said, less dependent on builds
2) if they wanted to solo they might as well enter zones solo
3) team pvp tends to be more balanced and imo more fun
4) it might leave them with people they want to team with in PvP more often, hopefully adding some diversity to the zones

I'm just wondering.. why do you specifically need a rad? I'd say a kin would be more useful for sustained high damage. If you have a dmg-oriented tank, 6 dmg dealers, whats the point of a rad aside from AV fights? As said you'd be nuking through the defeat all mishes, meaning the toggles of rad are barely used.

Need rad for AM? Kin got SB for that which is easier to keep perma than AM. Together with fulcrum greatly increasing the damage capability of 6 damage dealers. Need rad for AV? Mainly for -regen i take it, as thats what people seem to only look at when fighting AVs.. I'd say if 7 people dish a constant amount of damage on an AV, a kin once more would be a better idea cause of the +dmg of siphon power and fulcrum, combined with -regen in transfusion. Overall for speedruns I still would prefer a kin any day over a rad.

PS: I got a fair share of experience with TF speedruns, tho I still prefer doing eden <30 mins

PPS: Having a bad attitude against your fellow teammembers is sure to let you have many "successful" speedruns in the future..

DRAT! foiled again...

And yeah, it'd only give me bragging rights of being the best among beginners, but thats not the point. Some ppl will do anything for easy kills, and thanks to them new players might be put off. After all, thats one of the biggest reasons people get put off PvP isnt it? The bragging, ganking, swearing etc.

As said, I dont think you'll need many fights to see if people are about evenly matched. I dont say everybody should show the same amount of skill, after all what use is a contest then? But you can easily see if people have certain understandings and skills etc. You dont need many fights to see that. So I dont think it'll be that much of a scheduling nightmare. If it is a small tourny you can for instance have 1 night the prelim, 1 night the tourny.

PS: I dont have a fully IO'd pvp toon

Only thing as stated, is this "self classing" needs some form of prelim to make sure people dont deliberately classify themselves into the wrong class. I can say I want to play in the "new" players pool, then bring my fully IO'd PvP build to the match and well.. still put off new players . However I'd say 2-3 rounds, monitored by some "judge" ideally, will easily get rid of those kinks.

One thing that might not be practical for short events, is maybe some form of prelims and "weight classes". You got the lightweight/heavyweight thing in terms of level, but you might also try to implement a system that bases it on skill/experience. Grading in numbers, I'd have to agree will be too complicated. Grading in ATs.. I think the sets within an AT are too diverse to just grade em by that. By that I mean, using the AT grade system listed above, somebody with say an Ice/Nrg tank would have an advantage over his opponent's team with a Stone/Ice tank.

Ofcourse, its hard to make prelims work as that, in itself, is a PvP event. Also if you want to integrate the new PvPers with the hardcore PvPers, you'll still have a gap in between. However I do think it might be nice for some people to practice a bit in PvP against opponents that wont immediately slaughter them.

A way that maybe might work is people starting with sayin in what class they want to be put (new, average, hardcore, or something along those lines). You have a few fights within each class to see if people didnt specifically put themselves in a lower class just for easy victories. After a few fights you'll easily see in what class certain ppl belong.

Problem as stated before is that above solution wont work with short events but will only work if you have a big S4-esque tournament I believe. As stated in a previous post I'm still looking to organizing one of those, just coming 2 weeks or so I wont have time for it to make concepts

As to the question of Union vs Test, thats a tough cookie. As far as I know there are plenty of people who dont have Test for various reason (lack of disk space is a common one), hence you'll alienate a fair bit of people with that. People who dont want to install Test server just for a casual PvP event. On the other hand, Union will alienate the new players on the other servers. I'd say poll on at least defiant how many people would be interested. If there are enough there to have an event of their own, try to see if somebody on Defiant can help you host it on that server. If need be I'm willing to loiter around on Defiant, still know a fair amount of ppl there, including some of the PvP community.

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How about grading players interested based on their skill, Enhancements and character AT powers.

Then split everyone up into teams based on that. Then the experienced players will have to help the inexperienced who are on their team if they want to win. The inexperienced improve and the experienced get more PvP. Of course the fast learners and better trainers have the advantage.

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A nice idea.. but hard to work with. How would you class "skill". I can say I'm an average PvPer, but others may say I'm better/worse than average. Same with powersets, do you base it per character and how? or do you base it on teams? For instance a FF/ defender might not be much of a threat solo, but all changes when in a team.

It's a nice concept I do admit, but I think its too hard to effectively work with. Plus the thing you might get is that the experienced people in team A will aim for the inexperienced people in team B. Which, again, differs on what role that certain player is fulfilling in a team. For example an experienced blaster in team A, can easily gun for inexperienced empath in team B with little threat.

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3vP was ok, although it might have irritated those who were serious about winning.

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Well it depends with what your purpose you host an event. Is it to really see who is "the best" or do you just want a fun time PvPing? If its the latter I think 3vP was a great concept.

Seeing you got a fair bit of debuffing with the MMs, I'd say an AoE damage primary and buff secondary. However a buff set with a MM-only team means you prolly need to buff the pets more than the MM which sometimes can be a bit tricky for new players.

As far as primaries go, I'd really go for fire for maximum AoE carnage. I think my second pick would be Dark for a bit less damage, but some nice soft control along with it. Third i'd either pick ice blast (better single target damage, yet lacking in aoe) or maybe even AR (yes.. AR!), i'd imagine debuffed foes + full auto could be quite fun. However the problem with it is that earlier powers got knockback, and you dont really want knockback sets as said earlier.

Secondaries I'd say pick between cold, nice combo of debuff and buff, though a lack of heal if you want heals. I found frostwork however be really nice on MMs using bodyguard mode. Thermal for some nice buffs and heals and decent debuffs at higher lvls. Or kin for even more damage and better end management.

yeah, as said I got a kin/elec, and just love the feeling of playin like youre on crack with a kin . Havent tried rad lvlin tho, well.. i played it on a friend's account who now has a lvl 50 rad/psi, but havent dedicated lvled one. Hence making grav/rad seeing i also wanted a grav troller .

Basically my choice is now Mind/kin vs Mind/rad vs Grav/rad unless somebody brings up a good point

Aye, problem with 3vP however was that sometimes you would get some really unlucky draws kinda rendering you hopeless. Still 3vP mustve been the best arena fun I ever had.

Thing is, you do also want some skill factor involved and not solely luck of the draw. However I agree that you should look for something like 3vP if you want to introduce some new people (or "casual" PvPers) to PvP events.

Currently I'm still looking into the option of a S4-esque, longterm, tournament. Had a design a while ago but it showed some flaws in it. Bit too busy with RL stuff to dedicate some time to it, but i tend to do it once . Also if you ever need any help organizing the new event drop me a line and i'll be happy to help.

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I am trying to think of a "Event" that will give everyone a equal chance of winning i dont want to just do another event as i know what the out come will be. So thinking cap is on any ideas please pass my way.

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aye, been thinking bout something like that myself for the past 2 months or so.. talked bout it with SG a few times but afraid there still hasnt been any real outcome of that, if we do manage to think of something i'll send you a msg..

thusfar the only thing I know of that will level the playing field somewhat is a random draw of teams, so not only the ultimate pentad teams stand a chance of winning. Kinda like 3vP if you understand what i mean.

heh while i appreciate the full analysis of rad and kin, it's not really my question. As said, I got experience with all of those sets, know fully well what most powers do, and the others i know partially what they do but missing some details (i.e. anchors waking up sleeping foes or not).

My question is purely based about the synergy with the Mind primary. If you completely analyse a powerset with that one in the back of your head its fine by me. However just comparing kin and rad, barely paying attention to the mind component wasnt that useful to me as I know what playstyle fits which set most of the time.

The way I see this discussion going I expect it to become more favorable for the rad side of things. Which brings me to the next question. My grav/rad is still a lowbie (<10), I dont know if i feel like lvlin up 2 /rads at the same time. However as I said, I'm still not completely sure, if push comes to shove, what set would synergize better? Grav/rad or Mind/rad? (once more a matter of synergy, not just purely grav vs mind)

yeah i know bout the huge end drain on TK. Like I said, im not completely in the dark bout the subject just never seen it used against big groups, so wanted to know the theoretical answer, rather than it being practical

Same with sleeps/anchors, I got experience with fear (dark def, dm scrap, ill troller). Once more it was just checkin up on the facts before making a decision. If it wakes em up its just a sign for me its useless putting them to sleep first, apply anchors only to wake em up at that time. Not to mention sleep being completely useless as soon as anchors are running. With a set with 2 sleep powers i reckon thats an important fact to consider

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Will fight for defiant however if you need me to make the numbers

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coming to think of it.. TECHNICALLY my scrapper was a defiant original transferred to union.. so i suppose i can fight with him for defiant if need be

Well first of all, thing that gets me most in zonal PvP is the constant whinging for whatever reason:

i) "im getting ganked which is not fair, cause i ganked you just an hour ago", now I'm against ganking and normally dont participate in such. But I get sick of people complaining they are outnumbered when they dont complain if the tables were turned and often stand there gloating how uber they are at that time.

ii) "ffs you *bleep**bleep**bleep**bleep**bleep*, I was only here for <insert one of the following: xp/badges/inf>", well, to quote Rockjaw: "it's not a player hug player zone".

iii) "<insert abuse here>, I was duelling!", all nice n all you want to duel in a zone, I do it at times especially if sides are hugely unbalanced. However dont complain someone interrupts you, you are in a zone after all. If you want duels without interruption, theres a thing called arena for it after all.

Second of all, smacktalk is ok at times, as long as its just simple banter (and being obvious that it IS banter). People going at each other's throats over public channels immediately puts me out of a zone as i just cba.

So anyway, kudos to knight for opening this post. Some fairly good points adressed in it. Maybe a little thing the more established PvPers can do as well in a zone:

Sure, you got your own teams which work perfectly well and sometimes just own the zone. However this may also put people off at times as there sometimes just isnt a point in fighting seeing you know you are just gonna get hammered anyway without even making a dent.

Might want to try to include other players in a team and show em how a smooth team can work in PvP and how much fun that is. Might encourage them to make teams of their own and in overall zonal PvP is best imo if it works with teams. Alot of people get put off by PvP as they just enter a zone not knowing what to do, get humped by PvP teams and then leave having a "sod it.. no use" attitude. Without learning for instance the benefit of PvP teams.

myea.. i was thinking of mind/rad myself. Afaik the anchors dont wake up people, do they? Also only power I'm not too experienced with (except for floating across half sirens cause of it) is telekinesis. I know what it does etc, but I've only seen it in single target use. How does it work vs mobs, does it spread em? If so anchors + TK doesnt seem like too good a combo.

Right, as it is now, I'm thinking of making yet another new toon and a set I always wanted to try has been mind control. However I just cant think of a good secondary, just because i dont really find a set that fully synergizes with Mind. I've tried every secondary aside from emp.. but i'm just not too fond of being an emp. Toons I got with the other secondaries are: ill/ff, kin/elec, sonic/sonic, grav/rad, earth/storm and fire/ta.

So far I found that I reckon /ta would be the most synergy with Mind. However I was wondering what other people think would go well with mind control. Cause if I dont find somethin i like i'm prolly just gonna hop to the evil side and make a mind dom . Btw, I dont really want another sonic or ff toon, I like the ones i got, but i just dont want to lvl another one of those.

Anyway, question standing is simple: what sets do you people think synergizes best with mind control?

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Question:If I take Stealth, I would like, even much later on, to take Phase Shift conceptually. I won't do it if it is a really bad choice so how bad/good choice would that be?


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Well, seeing imo youre a bit squishier than most generally used PvP scrappers (basically SR and regen really..), it could be nice as a "oh *bleep*" power to use when you are about to hit the floor. Personally i wouldnt use phase on a scrapper, but it might be interesting to try.. cause i wouldnt roll a /WP scrapper anyway

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will aim for regen/recov

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do you mean the numina's unique, or just in general with set bonuses? If you try to pick sets that will boost regen, I can warn you now that a slightly faster regen isnt the thing that'll keep you alive in PvP. PvP generally isnt a prolonged fight wearing each other down, it often comes down on who hits first and who hits hardest. High burst damage is where it is at, especially in zonal PvP, and that slightly higher regen rate wont protect you from that..

if i can make it, i'll be there representing union with prolly my scrapper, blaster, troller or corrupter (even tho corr aint 50 yet, but hopefully he is 50 by then.. 45 atm)

yeah, you'll greatly improve the damage capabilities of your team, you just wont deal damage yourself that much
I suppose earth/storm is as "pure" a controller you can get lol

an empath will clear
the mind of the buffed blaster
lol PvP

(ok so i smuggled a bit with the last line)

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Im not really not trying to be rude

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so you ARE trying to be rude