Memphis_Bill

Eh, my last 50 was, IIRC, 150 hours (give or take.) I've been hearing 120-150 hours. Three work weeks to four work weeks of eight hour days (no, that's not how I leveled, just the equivalent.)

Given some of the farms and such that crop up, doorsitting could definitely do it. (And that's without the exploits that get closed off, where people were hitting 50 in less than a day.)

Yeah, I was triple checking that. Skipping or putting off the equips/upgrades... just don't do it.

It just looks - odd to me, overall. (Especially with stopping some of those at the tiny health bonuses.)

Yes, I have. As have friends of mine.
However, the word describes an expectation and - for lack of better description - stereotype which creates that impact, both for these team "leaders" and for players who can't see past "making a healer" to feed these same players' misconceptions.

You're missing part of the point, however. That "healer" that people insist is necessary - see the title - *isn't.* But having someone insist on being one - and playing just that way, and insist other defenders play that way - affects the archetype and the players as a whole.

Why?

Because every tell I get as a Defender, due to experience, I immediately wonder if they're "looking for a healer," if I'm going to waste my time going and getting involved with the team only to be kicked because - regardless of what my de/buffing skills and advantages are - I can't make "pretty green numbers." Never mind that I can keep you from needing to be "healed" in the first place.

Your "Controlling blaster" (and I've played something similar) doesn't redefine blasters for everyone. Nor does a blapper. Or a petless MM. The "healer," however, dips into a role that's mostly irrelevant here in COH, and *does* affect views and perceptions of an entire AT.

Or, to answer your question later:
When I've dropped a mission, spent time zoning, joined a team and get kicked partway through an arc or a TF because my defender is not a "healer," then yes, it is.

Oh, I've got more than my share of those. Like this guy.

It's prior history of the OP and discussions like this. It's not "people" that are being replied to as such - and most of those in this thread will quite happily and politely help a newbie (or forum newbie) who comes in and says "Hey, I'm having END problems" or whatever else. It's specifically response to the OP.

Damn trick arrow, sonic, force fields, etc. not healing! Don't they know their jobs?! They should heal when told to!

Oh, wait...

As far as "needing a healer," last weekend I joined a PUG Synapse with my 20-ish Dark/Dark defender. Balanced build. Full team of 8. We ended up with a "healer," 27 months (IIRC) worth of badges, level 50, one blast (and the nuke,) full concealment pool, hasten, tp, etc, etc, etc. The classic "healer."

Who did the least on the team?
Who was AFK the most?
Who was last to the missions?
Who was utterly useless, just sitting there during hunt missions?
Who dragged behind the team, often in another room, while we were fighting?
Who couldn't find their way through the maps?
Who ended up buffing the squishies, oh, let's try almost never despite having them? And buffed ATs that didn't need it?

If your answer to all the above is "The 'healer,'" you win.

*I* ended up using TG to break people out of tesla cages (in between blasts, tar patches, DNs and the like.) And I most certainly am "not a healer." In fact, on the "h34l0r"'s first AFK (a few minutes into the first mission,) he/she/it even said "So we have another healer?" Reply? "No."

Why the "healer hate?" Because, frankly, most are like that, useless and can't get their mind around "blue shield does not mean they spam heals." They freaking deserve it. And have since the game's beginning.

A few things come to mind here:

Aion has a mechanic that also shows up in other MMOs that's decidedly not fun, IMO.

"You. Go forth and gather. Yeah, wave your hand at some Aether, or that plant, or that ore. Oh, by the way, the stuff I want you to gather is 30 levels above your gathering skill. Go gather a LOT."

It's not particularly fun. It's time consuming. But it is several other things as well:

• Eastern MMO design, burning those game time cards/cybercafe time.
• A gateway to other things (crafting, money)
• Perhaps "fun" to some, as everyone's definition is different.

Other than the first (as COH isn't eastern-designed, grind-centered,) we can apply the other two here quite easily.

The argument's been made that the newbie doesn't know how to slot for END reduction and the like. That, of course, is why they're a newbie. They have to learn these things. They also don't know about how a Carnie Ring Mistress can affect them, about Sappers, about "Target the Raider Engineer first." They're not incapable of learning these things, and they're not incapable of learning to slot for END usage. A good number take the "lazy" way out and take stamina, yes, but at some point they may want to "fit more in" and take a long, hard look at their slotting. Nothing prevents them from learning it. It's how you become "not a newbie."

And that goes for other slotting, as well. Learning to take advantage of secondary effects, targeted building and the like.

Not to mention other "not fun" things have led to increased fun. I know everyone *loved* ED. Yet without it, or something similar, we wouldn't have IOs, something which greatly expands what a character is capable of, and I'd suggest from the little we know of it that we'd likely not have the upcoming Incarnate system. If we didn't have END use as it is, what would we have - global recharge increase? Lowered power levels? Start feeling "not super" by not being powerful enough to deal with more than 1-2 minions at a time without great risk as opposed to the full groups we can now without much effort?

If that sounds suspiciously related to the "risk/reward" mantra we've been given since, oh, day 1? It should.

As far as not fun - well, look at the forums. Some people *do* just have fun creating builds and finding ways around "problems" or "everyone does this." It could well *be* fun for them.

Oh, and the other direct reply to the question? "They're Robert Kotick."

And that's why we have dual builds. To me, one of the best things ever introduced to the game. Sure, you can't use them from 1-10, but 1-10 doesn't take that long, even solo on a slower soloer. (Generally, I'll build with a few more team-leaning powers from 1-10, and then split off the solo build after that point.)

Not Rush, obviously, but...

Stamina's in an interesting place, power-wise. It's perceived as necessary - but why?

Do you play tanks or scrappers? How often do you detoggle your armors intentionally? I mean, if you're fighting (say) Family, you don't need Energy/Negative Energy/Fire/Cold protection - but I bet your character's running those armors as well. If you (and I do mean a generic you here as well as the specific) get killed, I bet you turn on everything or nearly everything.

Now, some you can't help it - Fire tanks, for instance, have a grand total of two armors, and one of them carries status protection. But do you leave, say, Blazing Aura on? Watch as you play one day - I'd bet you'll see a number of Fire tanks SSing/SJing/etc. to the mission with BA on.

(This isn't a "I'm better than that" post - I do it too. The only time I really, REALLY pay attention to my armors is on Dark Armor, since I don't need CoF or OG running all the time, so I do a lot more toggling on and off.)

Similarly, how do you (generic) slot? Are you sacrificing damage or accuracy for end reduction in everything? Are you sacrificing recharge for it? (I'm not wandering into IO builds here and bonuses, though they can make some of this up.)

Stamina is - well, stamina's the automobile of COH.

What do I mean by that... Well, think. Could you get along without a car, doing what you do for a week without one? Everyone could to some extent - I've been living without one for a few months (expensive repairs.) (I'm fortunate enough to work from home.) Can I do without a car? Yes. I can walk to a corner store, bike to another one, and do a lot of ordering online. Do I *like* living without one? Not particularly. Is a car necessary? No. Is it *damn* convenient? Yes. It's a great time (and leg) saver.

Similarly, Stamina lets you concentrate on something other than END usage, for the most part. You can put in more damage/accuracy/holds/procs instead of an END reduction. You can toggle everything, or nearly everything, on and pretty much forget about it. It's a convenience to the point that people see it as a necessity.

(I'd also suggest that it helps in other ways - by having to take two prerequisites, you're not firing off MORE powers and using their END before Stamina, burning through blue even faster, plus the slots you'd want to put in those powers, that few seem to put in swift/hurdle/health, get put in the "fun" powers instead, making them stronger earlier. Think of what you'd take and how you'd try to slot without those prerequisites.)

Personally, my only "pre-stamina" END gripe isn't "I don't have any," but that we end up facing Clockwork and Mu - often in large numbers - before we have the tools (not just stamina, but SOs and near-SO level IOs) to deal with their END drain and recovery debuffs.

The problem with a filter is it's ridiculously easy to get around. What do you filter? INF? That would hurt many legitimate discussions (just think of how many times someone says something like "Yeah, that IO/proc/etc is good but will cost a lot of INF.")

WWW? Ok. W W W is now around the filter. Or _W.W.W_. Don't allow postings of addresses? Well, that also kills discussions where someone puts up utilities, wants to show off artwork, finds an article, wants to point to a system build...

What "stronger filter" would you suggest?

Yeah, honestly I think this is the most reasonable solution. Other forums are browsable, trial accounts can post only in the "trials" area, no PMs.

Also, I find it odd that they're even bothering here. OK, the market can be a mess, but it's not like you actually need INF here to do anything. It's nice to have on occasion, sure, but it's not needed. Aion, by contrast, I fully understand being a target (and it is quite heavily spammed.) You need money (and a good bit) for skills, for gear, for travel, for supplies, for pretty much anything - I'm surprised they don't charge you for standing in place longer than 30 seconds. While they're no more *welcome* there, I can at least understand it (and I'm sure they get quite a bit of business there.)

Still means they're taking up space, just taking it somewhere else. *shrug*

Actually, yes.

Even if it wasn't "so demanded" - say, one person a year asked about it - it would seem a natural evolution for a game otherwise known for costume options and character customizability. So, when it *became* possible to do, I'd expect that it would have gotten onto "the list."

Actually, no, they're not. Snagged two today.