Memphis_Bill
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Posts
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Joined
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They're going to show whether they're on or not in the UI.
/gunfriend @global.
Edit: And yes, just checked in game, global friends that are not online show as @globalname: offline.
And
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Quote:The link I mentioned is the definition given (and confirmed) by Castle. Unless your newer link is also by castle and not "some random forumite," it's irrelevant. I could say Tar Patch makes everyones costumes into pink tutus and provides a flight speed buff. Doesn't make it so.Originally Posted by BrandX
There was another post on the subject, that I recall saying the first rule was keeping the same enhancements.
When they were planning on replacing powers in the PPPs, I asked Castle directly *about* enhancements. His response? They would stay in, but not do anything if they didn't affect the power. Now, how does that fit with your personal, unverified definition of it beign "as long as it takes the same enhancements?" Looks shot to hell to me.
The cottage rule has *jack-all* to do with Enhancements. Enhancement types have been removed from powers before. The powers themselves still do the same thing.
Now, are you going to keep arguing on this, or accept the damn evidence that you're wrong, admit you may actually have learned something, and move on? At this point my money's on the first, frankly. -
Quote:And the last time they tried (with a new dev, at the time) was with the PPP changes. They were going to replace some powers outright in the PPPs. The feedback on these "useless" powers they were getting rid of did nothing but reinforce what a *phenomenally bad* idea replacing powers like that are, so we got 5 powers instead of 4 in the PPPs - which later also happened with APPs. That change didn't make it out of early, closed beta.Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
The Cottage Rule came out post I6. It was after "He Who Shall Not Be Named" left the Dev team. IH was changed in I5, I believe. Fold Space was well before that. Wet Ice going from a Def power to status protection only was before that. And this current Dev team saw what happened when they made those changes. They have learned from them, and created the cottage rule as a result of that. They are not going to change a power that dramatically, especially if the powerset in question doesn't really need the change.
Wiki entry on what the cottage rule is:
Quote:The Cottage Rule is a rule of thumb for the developers, used when talking about altering an existing power.
The term was coined by Castle on the official forums around the time Defiance was altered (December 11, 2007) and discussed.
Castle's original post has been lost to forum purges[1], but the rule, in summary, is this:
An existing power will not have its core functionality and purpose changed, though its strength may be altered and effects secondary to the power's true purpose may be added or removed.
This rule does not apply to new powers still in beta testing. The rule was so named with the example of "Build Up" -- with this rule, the developers will never change Build Up (which grants the user a temporary surge in damage and tohit) into a power which "builds up" a small cottage.
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[QUOTE=BrandX;3265851]Quote:No, that you're flat out wrong and not getting the point. I don't care if you disagree, if you do it from a factual POV. (Or purely opionion - "I don't like playing this set/using this power" - hey, fine. Then don't. I have no argument with that.)Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
What? that someone disagrees with you, therefore it's bad?
And this would be another instance of you *being wrong.* Energize STILL is an endurance discount. It maintains its original reason for existance. It has an added effect, yes. Just like you were *wrong* with the point of Burn earlier.Quote:I said imo, Energize's change completely changes the point of the power.
That is completely irrelevant. I don't care how you use it. Some people use Choking Cloud from Radiation Emission as a damage power by cramming it with procs. I do. But if they changed it to a damage power to "encourage" that use (as opposed to a toggle PBAOE hold,) it would break the cottage rule. But at this point, I don't expect you to get that.Quote:Yeah, it still does it's old effect, but I wouldn't be using it for it's old effect either, as Power Sink keeps me from needing to. *shrug*
No, it doesn't. It never has.Quote:My point stands.
I'm through trying to get the explanation through your skull, quite frankly. You don't get it, never will, and I'm resigned to that.Quote:And while I don't care for that one suggestion, I personally don't see how it breaks the cottage rule, and you haven't shown me how it does, when it keeps the same effects, only now you need to die and click a power to use them, instead of always on protection (again...look at IH being turned from Toggle to Click and Energize going from Conserve Power to the Heal (its main use now) with an END Discount).
Yes, it could, because +Heal IS NOT THE BASIC PURPOSE OF THE POWER. It is an ADD ON EFFECT, just like the heal on Energy's end drain, or the fear in Burn - notice THAT IS GONE NOW. IF the dev team found it detrimental for some reason, they COULD remove it. They would NOT remove the endurance discount.Quote:But then, Energize can't lose it's +Heal anymore.
Oh, wait, that's trying to explain it to you again. Let me go find a brick wall. It'll get that sooner than you will, apparently. Maybe I'll explain it to a few sheets of copper I have out in the garage, too. -
[QUOTE=BrandX;3265731]Quote:Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Original Power: Grounded
Purpose: +Resist/Mez Protection
First Revision: Self Rez with +Resist/Mez Protection
Gee, look, even your own explanation *completely changes the point of the power.*
Yes, actually, in this case there is. What I'd *REALLY* like to say at this point would get heavily modded. Believe me, with my current opinion - that quote was *not* misused.Quote:And Bill, no need to get rude. 
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I'm not sure about *seconds* - the concern might be with stacking there (non-controller immobilizes) but 30 seconds to a minute should work around that, as well, and still make it "fast" enough to be useful.
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They call that the "bio" field. Write whatever you want there. You can write in that you're a superintelligent turkey club sandwich if you like.
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Quote:No, you did not.Originally Posted by BrandX
I kept everything that grounded does now, in the new power, changed it from a passive to a click (which doesnt break anything, as we've both pointed out), and added a mechanic to it.
You took an airplane and replaced it with a ham sandwich. You then stuck a toothpick with a little plastic airplane on the top and insisted it's the same thing.
Original power - Conserve Power. Purpose: END discount.Quote:Energize went from a purely END discount power, to a primarily +Health power, with an END Discount property.
New power - Energize. Purpose: END discount and heal.
Same power with an added component.
Original power: Burn.
Purpose: PBAOE damage patch.
First revision: PBAOE damage patch with fear.
New revision: PBAOE damage patch.
Same power with a component added, then removed.
But like I said, you just refuse to get it. So I'm out. I'm not going to keep trying to pound understanding into a stone. I get paid to try to do that at work. I don't here. -
Quote:No, you're right - WP and Regen don't, I'm used to Fire and DA which do.Originally Posted by BrandX
Now, maybe it's just been me, but I'd like to refute that my WP's self rez made it anything but untouchable. Rez...faceplant. It did not make one untouchable at all.
Still violates the cottage rule.Quote:Okay...self rez can offer all that in the self rez as mag 1 for the KB/Immobile Protection and low resists, and make it a self rez.
Instant Healing went from toggle to click. It still has the same function. No violation.Quote:I'll have to disagree with it's point being a passive power, however, as Instant Healing would still be a toggle if that was the case.
*sigh* OK. Very last time I'm saying this, because if you still don't get it, I give up.Quote:Now, I'm not saying I want the change or not, just saying lots of changes could be done for that suggestion, and still fit it becoming a self-rez without breaking any cottage rules.
Changing the Basic Function of a power is what violates the cottage rule. Not changing it to a click. Not changing secondary effects. Not making it pink instead of green. Not changing its order in the powerset list.
Going from a power which provides multiple resistances to a self rez - a completely different function - breaks the cottage rule. Yes, even if you put resistances in the self rez. You are changing the primary purpose of the power. You're changing an airplane to a ham sandwich. The two are NOT interchangeable. -
Fold Space was issue 1 (if that,) when the game was exceptionally new. Whether it was a good idea or not - Controllers did need mroe damage, and the pet provides it - the game itself wasnt' anywhere near finished. We also had a vastly different dev team that, quite honestly, if they were in control today... I hate to think of what would happen.
The Cottage Rule has been around for quite some time.
Again, if you want to know what happens when you try to replace powers *now,* all you have to do is look at the PPP changes - where "useless" powers were initially replaced flat out (the enhancements in them would have stayed, but done nothing unless they affected what that power did.) For instance, my Ice/Psy took Mace mastery. They were going to replace the AOE damage blast with personal force field, which I find utterly useless.
You'll notice they have *five* powers now. -
Quote:See other thread.Originally Posted by Xilibrius
Out of curiosity did the cottage rule come into effect before or after Fold Space?
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Quote:No. The basic purpose of Grounded is to be an auto-power that continually provides the following:Originally Posted by BrandX
Now see, for those who came in after the Burn change, and as many said they used it before the recent change to it, the component of Burn was to fear the enemies (or they in how they used it).
Basic Principle of Grounded resists! If it was turned into a self-rez (like was mentioned in another thread), and that self-rez granted you some resistance, basic principle is still in play!
Energy resist
Negative energy resist
Knockback resist
End drain resist
Immob resist.
The basic purpose of a Rez is to bring yourself back from death. As a click power, those resists would not be in affect unless and until that power was clicked - and they'd be secondary to the power's primary purpose of rezzing yourself. Given that every self-rez in the game makes you untouchable for several seconds, a resist would be somewhat *pointless* there. And removing the untouchable for the sake of having the resists do something worthwhile would make it one of the least liked self-rezzes out there. -
Quote:You assume.Originally Posted by Zyphoid
If the game were making money on our 15$ a month, there wouldn't have just been a round of layoffs
The game had somewhat higher subs at COV launch. They still laid off a number of people in the following months. That size of a team was no longer needed - they brought in extra help. It's not a stretch to assume the same reasoning was used for most of the post-GR layoffs. (BAB may have *wanted* to leave at this point, for all we know. I don't think anyone's said publicly.) -
Quote:Extremely. Like the first major patch of the game. With a vastly different dev team. (Fold Space pulled, Wormhole moved up, new power - Singularity.) Issue 1, if not before. And again, for contrast, look what happened when they tried to do it with PPPs. They learned it was NOT a good idea. ESPECIALLY several years into the game.Originally Posted by BrandX
Powers have been changed before. Wet Ice, a power I remember that once could be slotted with Defense.
And while it escapes me right now, I can swear there were examples of powers being changed that went against the cottage rule, before. Admittedly, this was earlier in the game.
What is the basic purpose of Burn? Not fear. Damage. Has that changed? No. The add in component has. Therefore, no violation. The *basic purpose* of the power - damage - has not changed. It has nothing to do with what can or can't be slotted, or the order it's in.Quote:And untill recently, I can remember my Burn never fearing anything, and then all of a sudden it started fearing 99% of the enemies, then it stopped fearing them (so that's...add a component, keep it in, then lose the component).
Flipping it around, if the Devs added damage to Illusion's Spectral Terror, the cottage rule would not be in violation. The power would still be doing an AOE Fear. If they *replaced* the fear with damage, it would be.
Those would be people with no clue as to what the cottage rule (do not change the basic purpose of a power) is.Quote:As for my post, when people have suggested changing the order of a power, people have said "cottage rule" before.
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Quote:Depends, as well, on the Rikti you're talking about. (I've bounced this thought around given Techbot's push for a Rikti EAT.)Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
*spoiler warning (although I think this is something the vast majority of people know)*
Actually all Rikti are Mutated Humans from another dimension although there is some argument whether this counts as Science or Mutation since the process was at least partly of artificial oriign.
First, they undergo a scientific process which, yes, mutates their bodies. However, the source of the mutation is just that - a science-based process. (Mutation implies an inborn genetic change from the description.) We don't know, right offhand, if the Rikti "mental network" is natural to them or not. In any case, this only is guaranteed to affect their bodies.
Most Rikti (soldiers, etc.) appear to have their weapons and armor as their powers. This would lean toward Tech as an actual origin (source of powers.)
Rikti Mentalists, we don't know enough about to tell if it's Natural (a trained evolutionary development some are just better at,) a result of the change (Science) or something else.
A Rikti Magus is very obviously Magic origin - again, source of powers. -
Quote:The ORDER of powers has nothing to do with it. The powers themselves still perform the same basic task. The order of powers is not touched on by the cottage rule. The purpose of the power is.Originally Posted by BrandX
The devs have changed the order of powers before (Taunt) and other things, that usually gets a "cottage rule" response from the player base.
If I move Taunt to the second power slot in a set for whatever reason, Taunt still Taunts. The power it swaps places with still does whatever it does. No violation occurs.
If I make Taunt into a placate, that does violate it (for what I'd hope would be glaringly obvious reasons.)
The cottage rule states that the basic purpose of a power will not change. It does not restrict adding to it. It does not affect the order within the set. If you're going to argue it, at least know what it is. -
Quote:"Human" is not the restriction for natural. See, again, Peacebringers.Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
One definition does not imply th opposite of another. Cosmic = Of this universe, but not from Earth, Natural = Not inherently powered beyond human norms.
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Quote:The Cottage Rule states that the basic purpose of a power will not be changed. Again, see Conserve Power -> Energize, as well as what happened with the PPP "replacements." (Which ended up with the PPPs getting five instead of four power choices.) My discussion of sets is relevant more to player reaction to this sort of change (aside from what seems like a heavy dislike of self-rez powers in melee sets, especially for tanks - see any number of arguments about Rises of the Phoenix, for instance.)Originally Posted by BrandX
The cootage rule can easily be worked around on this one, by giving the self-rez a minor +Resist component (like say +1%), so you can still slot the resist sets.
The problem I see here, isn't the idea of adding a self-rez to the set, but that they'd be adding a self-rez that effects the enemy at tier 8, when the other self-rez's that do that, are tier 9s. -
Quote:You may feel that way, but you'd be incorrect.Originally Posted by Twilight_Snow
Good idea. Actually, the idea is ok regardless of the cottage rule phenomenon.
I think cottage rule is just a rough guideline for players, and not meant to be a rigid rule. If a change is really necessary and can't made done without significant change, then cottage rule does not apply. Most people do not justify their suggestions that their proposals are necessary and can't be done otherwise (to be fair, such justification is difficult in general). This makes it convenient for other people to jranger easily.
I feel that cottage rule is just a convenient excuse when people don't like a suggestion. It is not necessary that the real reason behind the objection is the cottage rule. Most of the time, I think there is a point when people say no to suggestions, but maybe the cottage rule is used too often.
You want reasoning behind invoking a cottage rule? Two examples:
1. Someone's proposing a change to electric armor in another thread, *today,* which gets rid of the armor completely (moving what it does to another power) and putting in a self rez.
Think about all that would affect with *every* Electric armor user out there.
2. The devs tried "Eh, just replace the power" once, when they were revamping PPPs. They did just flat out replace powers people were taking. The response from the players when they replaced "useless" powers?
... and that's putting it lightly. Think they'll *ever* do that again? Before answering, notice that the PPPs (and now APPs) have *five* powers instead of four. -
Quote:Yes, it got a self heal - Energize - which was added to (note that it didn't *replace,* but the heal was added on top of) conserve power. Yes, the name was changed. It does, however, remain an END Discount - just with an extra ability now.Originally Posted by TwilightPhoenix
Didn't ElA just get a major improvement when it got proliferated?
Similiarly, Energy Aura had a heal added to its END drain.
Doing what the OP wants? Not only is it a violation of the cottage rule, but the result *will* be to PO ElA users as you've now rendered at least one set of enhancements useless (which, if slotted the way you'll generally hear suggested for resist sets, means you're actually dropping their *defense* some, among other things - not to mention the time and INF to get the sets,) forcing a respec, but replacing it with a self-rez which many find useless. (Look at the arguments about Dark and Fire's self-rezzes, especially in the Tanker boards - I don't mind them, I tend to take them, but this *would* seriously irritate others.)
/unsigned many times over. -
Quote:/this.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Six years ago. And while I know they're never going to remove it, dropping it to 10-15 seconds would still be a major boon for such times when I change to the wrong outfit or my costume change emote misfires, not changing my costume but resetting the timer.
10-15 seconds is fine. -
Quote:Then give a good argument for it.Originally Posted by Remaugen
I would love to see an alien origin
Costumes, sure. But there's no reason for it to be an origin. Especially with the work that would be involved to bring it about. -
Quote:So taking that example, why would you use "alien" when "tech" fits him to a T? It's like using Japanese origin because your suit's computers were made by Sony.Originally Posted by zachary_EU
Alien origin sounds nice. My Zach is alien but his powers are based on technology. I have superior martian technology enviromental suit
And that, actually, I agree with - I'd love to see more origin-specific groups, missions, ambushes and threats. But seeing how people wet themselves over even the current, heavily nerfed Voids and go shrieking to the boards to have them taken out of the game, I don't see that ever happening.Quote:Sad thing is that origins means less and less in this game. It would be nice to be origin based contacts in Atlas who gives missions for levels 1 to 50. Contacts are there but they need some more missions in their lists. -
To a point, yes.
On the one hand, I did not (and still don't) like some of what happened to the hollows. Too *much* was introduced there. "Defeat 10 Trolls/Defeat 10 outcasts" used to be fairly fast. Now you have to go farther out to find the groups (and find enough of them for the defeats.) On the other hand, mission placement is (generally) better, and the hospital and trainer are definite improvements.
I'd argue, however, that "revamping old" does NOT automatically mean "less new." Heroside, there are heavily underutilized zones that are perfectly fine, design-wise, but absolutely barren content wise - even though they certainly have stories behind them. Dark Astoria's the poster child for this, and I've proposed content additons for Crey's Folly recently as well (and Boomtown farther back.) All of that content would be new - in an old zone.
They're like a notebook with nothing written in them, maybe the first page used. Revamping would be filling in more pages.
Villainside... villainside needs more new. Somewhere ELSE to go (and I don't mean Praetoria) besides Mercy with Kalinda/Burke. You CAN shoehorn it in there, but part of why i don't tend to make new villains (and level existing ones slowly) is the same-old Trash Deco, grey-on-grime look which just gets depressing to play in. Heroside has multiple paths to go through. Villainside is the same-old, same-old.
Everything else? Do it on a case-by-case basis. I generally like Synapse, for instance, but others complain about it. The Shard TFs need work. I'd love to see the Hollows trial tweaked slightly so it doesn't need to keep 8 people through the whole thing (a team of 4 would be ideal - I've seen more of these fail from just one person dropping than anything, percentage-wise.) Minor tweaks can be done (with maintaining story coherencey and flow) I'd think without having a big impact on new content. Major tweaks would have to come more slowly. -
At 22, you're really just at the start of where the power curve seriously ramps up - you're just sticking a toe into SOs (and SO level IOs come a touch later, as far as commons,) and still a little slot-poor. At 22, you should have *just* picked up Stygian Circle.
For me, at this point, I tend to TP in (you do have your binds set up, yes?) in Dwarf to mire and eat any alpha, possibly double mire (dropping down to human is fast.) I'll admit I tend to still be Nova-happy in this stage with a Shade. Eat some purples (appropriately) first. If there's a troublesome enemy, make sure it's targeted for a Grav Well when you arrive. Also, you don't have Grav. Emination or Inky yet (which help with survivability).
Trust me, you're at the stage where you're *really* going to start building momentum with that 'shade. It's like a Mastermind in the late teens to early 20s... painful, but so close to power you can *taste* it.