Memphis_Bill

And a site dedicated to that sort of thing - http://notalwaysright.com/

That badly? I haven't seen it like that, personally.

The escapee lag is still awful, though.

Most AOEs don't jump. There's the chain from Electric Melee (which also gives the same feedback, just jumps less,) and Jolting Chain - which, while it doesn't put up an announcement, does have a fairly obvious knockdown in place.

/this.

That's the big issue (in general) at level 21. You've JUST passed level 20 - which you may have slotted for at level 17, so you're at -1 *DO* level. (Unless, of course, you were using IOs.)

Masterminds, as well, have a special bit of hell reserved for them from level 18 (when your tier 1s gain a member but drop down another level) to 24 (when you get your second T2 - usually support of some sort - pet to re-strengthen them.)

Don't give up, just push through it. Yeah, 21's miserable. Fortunately it's just one level - and you can spend the time getting your new costume slot, earning a cape and whatnot.

(And yes, the general questions on what you have slotted, how you have your powers slotted, etc.)

No, no, you're stubborn and bullheaded..

I think.

I've lost my sheet keeping track of all this. Let's see, I have to disagree with EvilGeko, I know that...

/goes to find forumite tracker.

I'm pretty sure it was distinctly mentioned in a patch note when the change went in. Can't find it right this second, though.

You mean the powers that very distinctly hit the target straight on, like Force Bolt, most of Energy Blast and the Peacebringer powerset?

The ones that the damage *visually* and *unquestionably* comes from being hit with something, as opposed to being lifted up then slammed on the ground?

If Lift and Levitate did knock*back* intead of knock UP, you might have had a point here. However, they don't. And neither do you.

Don't take this personally, as I'm making a general statement here.

But this sort of comment just *astounds* me in this day and age. Generally, if I want to know about something, I end up (a) googling it, or (b) sticking it (or its company's) name up in the address bar with a .com at the end.

Especially with software - I want to make sure I'm patched, make sure there arent' bugs that are going to cause me untoward difficulty, look for trials and the like.

I'm more surprised when there's *not* a website for something. And given the website has direct links to the forum (as does the launcher,) well...

... and saying this after pointing out it was in the launcher also makes me shake my head.

It's like having your hours on your front door. "Open 8-6 Mon-Fri." Then someone comes in and asks when you close, or complains you weren't open saturday.

You *must* use the launcher to get into the game. Yes, I agree the announcement could use more "pop," but it *is* there. And if you know how to skip the launcher - you probably got that info from the forums *anyway.*

Hey, I'm supposed to be the argumentative, grumpy one. Stop cutting in on my act. :P

Eh. It's not so much "ignore" as just "become blind to." It's a question of just how noticable and different it is in the first place.

For instance... the house I grew up in was nice, but it was under the approach path for Mitchell Field, Milwaukee. International airport. And pretty much a direct line between it and Chicago. You'd probably think it'd be a real pain to try to, oh, sleep... but after not that long, it was just "Something." Very rarely did I even pay attention to an aircraft going overhead (and that would be because it sounded odd - and an airshow was coming. Got to see some nice aircraft fly over.)

The launcher's the same thing. There's not a *lot* of room there. Now, sure, saying "Anniversary sale" is nice, but as I look at it right now, it's a line of text off to the side - as opposed to the "Seven years of super!" or "Buy the animal pack!" And it's piled with other mentions of gamestop and whatnot. It's not particularly attention grabbing.

It *should,* ideally, be in the rotation with the animal pack and the WTF announcement. At least the change in image might catch your eye and get you to notice it. But instead it's in a generally easy to "blank out" section of rather dull text.

And you refuse to see how your arguments that "justify" doing the damage at the beginning are, frankly, weak. I've given you a number of ways that there would be *no* damage at the beginning, and you ignore those. So don't try painting me as the bad guy here. I've also pointed out that it makes SENSE for the damage to be at the end - you can SEE the person hitting the ground in a way that, frankly, would HURT. Having no damage there counters your own "quality/looks bad" argument for how it is now, but hey, you ignore that as well.

Go play the martyr if you want, it's as silly as the way the powers would look if done the way you want them.

/fail for bringing up "forum cartel" and post count like it's some sort of conspiracy. Really, that's the best "argument" you could come up with? *snort*

/fail #2 for the whole "see each suggestion as an attack on the status quo" - especially as I agree with others (hell, even agree with a part of this one, if you'd *bother* to read, which you obviously didn't) and make some myself. Pay attention, sonny. (Then again, if you'd actually paid *attention* to post history, you'd see WHY vanden gets mentiond for bringing absolutely trivial, piddly things up like they're the end of the world and why he's getting called on it.)

And if you don't see the gutting of PVP, the lack of base attention, various *actual* power issues and the like as bigger than "I don't like when this power does damage," well, I don't know what to tell you other than to get some perspective.

Plus, if you'll notice, I'm making arguments *with reason* against the change. You? You're just making odd-smelling noises in the wind. Guess what, sparky, I have every right to argue against a change I think will make it worse. If I thought it would make it better, or better with a small tweak, I'd argue *for* it. I play a fair number of Mind and Gravity characters, I'd be exposed to this quite often, and don't want my experience made worse. Don't like that? Too damn bad.

Last, if you don't like it, guess what - YOU aren't employed by Paragon Studios or NCSoft either. Don't take me to task while you believe you can play moderator, hypocrite. See those buttons down on the left side? Use them, or submit a job application to NCSoft.

You're the one spouting "quality" and "professionalism" and all this other nonsense, ignoring that you have *no* reason (other than you wanting it) for the damage to be done as the power is applied - as there's *NO VISIBLE SOURCE* for said damage. I can call it illusion on my part, I can say I've reduced the gravity under their feet, I can say I've spread the force over their entire body so they wouldn't take damage, I could say they're *being levitated* (which tends *not* to be suggested as a violent action - though the drop is) - none of which would need to do "apply a damaging force" at the beginning.

If you want this done, you should be pushing for all those other changes, too. After all, if I jump down on a group with Force Bubble running, they take two impacts - when the bubble hits, and when they hit the wall/ground. Why are they not taking damage? That doesn't look professional, to use your own argument. Hell, we can put in "That would help some of the lower damage classes, too, as most of them have Force Field!"

I'm expanding your argument to a sensible conclusion for other powers and how they do (or don't do) damage, as well. Or are they not worth the same "quality?"

Bullheaded?

You're being just as bad.

So, essentially, we should go from a simple power (lift - enemy is, unless they're resistant, subject to a soft control from the knockup, then has damage applied two seconds later) to one that:
- If you're immobilized, you take damage right away (you're "lifted" from your legs with force, but your legs don't want to move, so... broken bones?)
- If you're not, assumptions outside of your control are made to just how and why some amount of force is applied to an enemy, causing damage at the beginning.
- To keep it from just "looking bad" (as that's the justification given for the change,) MORE damage would have to be done on falling, unless the enemy is immobilized as mentioned in the first point, in which case you're losing a chunk of damage,
- AND, though he doesn't mention it, we now need another potential source of damage for the times you "lift" someone into a ceiling...

- AND we now have to go through every power case to alter, apply or change where and when damage is applied, with the "fallen" damage now having to take more CPU time on the server to do "impact detection" not just with the ground, but with ceilings and walls (which it currently doesn't do.) for powers like Repel, Repulsion Bubble (which does no damage now, but if you fall into a group of enemies on, it would make contact with them at your falling speed PLUS they'd hit the ground and/or walls,) Force Bolt (damage only at the beginning,) the Nemesis Staff temp powers, Focus (only damages when the power hits, not when the enemy gets knocked back/down) and so forth...

I mean, why only do it to two powers, right?


OR...

We can say "Damage after two seconds is good enough in most cases, giving the player a wide variety of excuses as to the power lifting the target and letting 'ground impact' be the reason for damage," or maybe tweaking the timer on the damage if you think there's some horrible lag and making it (say) 1.8 seconds.

Looks like all they do is rotate from a front/down position to an upright one. No evidence of going back. And they didn't seem to have much in between except a "twitch," so I'm not sure just how sensitive this is to changes. Someone probably could with practice, if the motor controlling it is allowed to, stop in an in between position.

Not sure if that's a motor or sensor limitation. Either - for any use - would probably be doable with more money thrown at it.

However:

(A) you're not asking for changes to them, though given the mindset you're showing here, you should, and
(B) I already made a point about Knockout Blow, though it's in it doing no damage to your hand or arm when applying that amount of force (one place where, yes, you *can* unequivocally say what exactly is lifting that individual into the air.)

You *can't* say just what's causing the lift in Lift or Levitate, or if it would cause damage. The target hitting the ground, though, definitely would.

Unless you want to enjoy yourself, in which case, avoid Freedom. (Unless you LIKE being stuck in a room packed with kindergarteners all on sugar rushes and screaming at each other. In which case, you should feel right at home there.)

Exactly.

That's why I tend to shake my head at both the "New SG looking for members!" broadcasts, and people randomly saying "I need an sg, anyone have one?" in zones.

Go find some people, play with them, see what they think of their SGs. If you like what you hear, see if you can tag along on an SG event. If it seems like a fit, ask for membership. They may not have the most prestige banked, but if you're having fun with them and fitting in well, who really cares?

You *never* have to consider "the No. 1 by prestige by default" for anything.

And I haven't said what you are saying DOES describe how it is now, quite obviously.

Again, though, you haven't "sold" it. It would look worse. They get some sort of hit of damage for "some reason" as they go up into the air, and then absolutely nothing as they land on... what, featherbeds made to look like concrete? Bean bags that have replaced the rocks around the Cities? Have the roads been paved with Fluffyum so that nobody falling on them gets hurt?

Quite obviously the same version, given I can log into the servers. Were the version different, it would patch my client.

Except you haven't made the case for "quality." And, again, going through and independently testing it, the powers *as is* make for a decent simulation of "You're damaged because you hit the ground," except for in *one* case - where I'm so far above the level of what I'm fighting I wouldn't typically be seeing that *anyway.*

There's no stated reason how or why someone is lifted into the air. YOU want to make arguments about what forces are applied how that are unsupported anywhere but in your head.

Also, one other that I've held off on - if someone's being damaged for being lifted FROM the ground, as you suppose, how bad do you think it's going to look if they take no damage after hitting it again afterward? Seems to me that you'd have *lessened* the "quality" you claim you're going for.

Edit: I actually have no argument against moving the -fly to the beginning. You're disrupting the target's flight/concentration/air density around them/whatever excuse you have for it. I don't, however, agree that moving the damage to the beginning would be an improvement. I feel it would make it look worse.

No?

Hmmm.
... except, in most cases, the timing works out just fine. As pointed out earlier.

And yes, I edited and added more while you typed this. Waiting for justification for all that other stuff. I mean, me burning you to health goes against *real* chemistry and *real* medicine, too.

This is a game, not real life. Or are you next going to push for high damage on *each* landing someone makes while superjumping?

See, this is what I mean. You're *so* incensed by damage taking place about two seconds (approximately when most even level enemies are going to "land") into the power - but I bet you're *fine* with superjumping doing no damage on its own - even though you "fall" from much higher up. I don't care how much control you have, if you're looking at damage from falling from, oh, 10-15 feet up, falling *from higher than many buildings* should do more damage.

Or you're fine with my character healing your completely-human character by setting them on fire - not just stopping bleeding (cauterization) but making you perfectly healthy by BURNING you to health, or healing their knife/bullet/caltrop/fire wounds by setting off unnamed radiation near them, or making you tougher and able to do more damage by making you cold. Or setting your head on fire so you can't be confused. (Now, admittedly part of that probably IS realistic - if you're sleeping and I light your head on fire, you're not likely to stay asleep.)

Or, hey, someone being able to just up and fly - taking no damage fom a sudden liftoff - with no damage whatsoever. Or being able to perform a Knockout Blow (lifting someone just as high into the air as Levitate) while taking no damage yourself.

You're fine with all that *and more,* but... oh my god, the enemy you used lift on takes damage two seconds into the power!