Memphis_Bill
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Quote:That's called "Altitis."Originally Posted by xerxes1551
I have also been considering starting a demons/pain, demons/dark, or demons/thermal. As you can tell I am suffering from some serious indecisiveness.
Roll more than one.
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Thanks
New piece showed up (and yeah, I have others in queues... hitting an "art crazy" phase, apparently.) Little backstory and insight into altitis, though.
So, perhaps my fourth or fifth character created when I started the game was Therra Arcson. She nearly got deleted early on because I felt bad about "kill stealing" someone accidentally... glad I didn't. An Elec/Elec blaster, she became (a) a real RP outlet - one I did well enough, apparently, to have people who knew better forget who was behind her, actually confusing her for me, and (b) my first 50.
Issue 4, and I get to make what I saw go flying by in the Hollows "way back when" - a Kheldian. With backstory. Essentially, she's captured by the council (and presumed dead by her friends.) Council plans to implant her with a Nictus as a sleeper agent. She's rescued by a Peacebringer and her family's patron goddess (not directly, for the second, but she did direct the first on where to find her.) Unfortunately, her partner had given her up for dead, and - long story, but the nanobots that gave them their powers took over. She ended up with the supergroup leadership on her shoulders, and changed her last name to reflect her *own* mission of redeeming him. Thus, my first Peacebringer (and I think 5th 50,) Therra Paladina.
While that's going on (and COV is released,) the Circle - who have had Therra as a thorn in their side (pun not intended) for years - whip up a plan of their own. They take some of her blood and tissue from her wounding and treatment at the hands of the council and use it, with other rituals, to create their own "Therra," to discredit and disgrace the original, eventually to kill her. Therra's patron steps in, though, and blocks them from being able to copy her powers. In frustration, they turn to the infernal... which also alters their creation (she's a Dark/Thermal corruptor.) Therra's strong willed enough as it is - the fake, Therra Malevola, is just as strong willed, and now angry, having a vendetta against Circle mages and Therra Arcson/Paladina.
(These also branch off to the Erin/Caitlyn Snow, who is her daughter, and other-dimensional versions of her... several, actually. Essentially, if there's an Electric set, there'll be a Therra of it. Two more blasters, a tank, an elec/elec dom, an elec/elec brute, a mercs/storm MM, an electric/nin Stalker... )
With all that aside, I figured it was time Therra Paladina and Therra Malevola meet, and while it can't be done in-game, it *can* be depicted by Taclobanon:
(One of these days, when I decide on just the right person, get far too ambitious and, oh, win a few hundred bucks that aren't needed elsewhere I've considered having a group shot of all her variations done.)
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The scrapper's going to be more forgiving (well, survivable) in any case while you get your sea legs (because it sounds better than your cox legs) back under you and get caught up.
Once you do, go ahead and look at your blapper. Yes, it's still viable. You'll definitely want to tweak to take advantage of things like inherent stamina as well as IOs, though - and use those IOs (as well as the incarnate system, if you have Going Rogue) to work on things like... defense, kb protection and the like. -
Quote:<nitpick>Originally Posted by RiverOcean
While it never seemed weird to me that "Warshades" leech power from other heroes, it always weirded me out that Peacebringers do. It doesn't seem in line with the lore of the AT.
They don't, though.
If they leeched powers from other heroes, everyone around them would get weaker. Think of it as being inspired by their teammates.
</nitpick> -
Quote:I'm saying the forms add flexibility to face more situations without having to deal with IO costs (and I don't just mean INF.)Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
So, you're saying the forms help to level up a Peacebringer... I originally posted in this thread in the first place saying PB's play better in forms because Timeshadow said that "you won't be realizing the potential" if you don't take forms... Which I think is the complete opposite of the truth.
Now, if we're looking at potential - and again, I'm going to point to my 'raising a peacebringer' guide, down in the sig - I'll agree that not taking the forms on a PB is *less* detrimental than not taking them on a Warshade (thinking specifically of the Mire, as well as Flight access as an alternate to Teleport, which some people don't like.)
It may sound like much the same thing you're saying - but it's the opposite side of the glass, really. You can't really make a comparison to other ATs ("It's like a blaster not taking their melee," for instance) because nothing makes the same sort of impact, or has the same sort of cost.
PBs aren't penalized either way all that much, basically.
I wouldn't argue with that - IIRC, our taunt is not auto-hit either (unlike tanks, which just need it in PVP.) (Not at a point to double-check that ATM.)Quote:As for the inherent, both White and Black dwarf need a taunt aura. You can't even be a bad tank if you don't hold aggro and protect your team. -
Quote:And this is what I mean about my 1-50 viewpoint vs a "50, IO'd" viewpoint. I'm not just looking at "After 50,000 hours of play and 350 billion INF spent on a build." I'm looking at your full potential - at level 6. Or level 18. Or level 32. Not just a built up 50.Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
You're right that this is going way off topic, I only posted here because you said that "without the forms you won't be realizing the potential" which is something I completely disagree with. I responded and you started talking about while leveling up which is completely irrelevant to what started this in the first place.
Leveling up, you haven't reached your potential yet... So get clarion is a perfectly good response if the final goal is what's being discussed. At its' full potential, an all human Peacebringer also has light form... Fully realized, the forms put PB's at a disadvantage because they don't buff each other, you have clarion for status protection, you have toggles and set bonuses for survivability (and recovery as needed) and you don't have to worry about those toggles dropping, or only having access to a few powers while light form is on. -
Quote:...Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Pretty much exactly like how I feel now, actually. It's almost every day that I'll knock an important enemy into a wall, find a locked door with the key to it on the other side, find a door blocked by another unopanable door, end a mission with an enemy apparently having taken a stroll off the map and so on and so forth. Some of these I reset, some I petition, some I mission-drop, and life goes on, apparently.
Sam, just face it. The game hates you.
While I may knock an enemy into a wall every once in a while, that tends to be on the order of once a month at worst. The "lost final enemy," even rarer. The rest I have never had happen. Ever.
"Almost every day?" -
Quote:I will, for the 30 levels you're staggering around and holding your head. Thanks. :POriginally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Ok, if it's that important to you either carry a lot of break frees or take Dwarf until you get to 50, and then spec over to a human only build once you're able to take clarion. White Dwarf isn't a break free.. You can't just pop in and out and not be stunned anymore. For the duration of the effects you'll be limited to the sub par attack chain. Enjoy that.
Perhaps you should know I've been playing Khelds since I4. Quite a few of them Peacebringers. Tri, bi, and human form. I'm well aware of how to play them - and no, I'm not "in dwarf all the time."Quote:If you're playing your kheldian seriously, you should get KB IO's anyways. You should also get an aegis psionic/status resistance. What are you planning on doing, popping dwarf every time you think you might get knocked back!? Heh, good luck ever doing any damage because you're going to be in dwarf all the time.
Or... you use dwarf to take care of the mezzer, then move on. You know - switching *as needed.*Quote:Human form with toggles is able to kill MUCH faster... I would rather take some damage and then use my +HP heal on top of my other heal and clear spawns faster then spend way too much time in dwarf form nibbling away an enemy's health.
And you have to take all those other levels into consideration - which, again, "use clarion!" is useless advice for. Or "rely on Light Form which finally gives you those bonuses!" doesn't help quite so much with. Dwarf comes earlier. Use the tools given.Quote:When I play a character, I set a goal and work towards it. Obviously when you're leveling ANYTHING up, it's not going to be perfect until it's done.
You are aware you can shift into dwarf *while* mezzed, right? Which you can't do with QFly? Rather my point of bringing it up? While it does interrupt it (bug,) you can still swap right back into it. QFly, if you have a mez that's "hit" but you activate QFly first - you're still mezzed, the effect is still on youQuote:Um, if you're already on your last bit of health you're doing it wrong. Usually you should be able to sense when you're starting to get into trouble and that would be the time to hit it. As for incoming mez, that applies to dwarf also.
Regardless, I think we're getting off on a severe tangent, as this doesn't have a heck of a lot to do with the inherent and I think I'm busy arguing 1-50 (my usual viewpoint) versus the "at 50 and IO'd" viewpoint more than anything - two totally separate experiences. -
Quote:I really wish people would quit using clarion as a reply to things like that. That's great... once you're 50 and have run several trials. But from 20-50? "Get clarion" is about as useful a bit of advice as "Use Revlon."Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
edit: As for status protection, get clarion.
And I don't think you've looked at Dwarf. "Same survivability?" Really?
White Dwarf gives you higher resist to *everything* - for a cost of 2 slots to fit enhancements in. The HP boost lasts as long as you're in form, as opposed to essence boost's 2 minutes, and gives more HP *without* having to spend more slots. And, of course, status protection - knockback, holds, the works.
To get close, you have to burn more slots AND be willing to pay the END cost for 1-3 shields, *and* go invest in some IOs (or take a pool) for KB resistance - which still does nothing for status protection. That's *not* the "same" survivability.
You can finally pull even (and with shields and slotting, go higher) in Human form, for a short time and with a crash, when you get Light Form at 38, yes. But 38 isn't 20, and Dwarf doesn't crash.
Grabbing my level 30 PB for a "middle of the trip" look:
Dwarf - 3 resist, 1 winter's gift
58.5% resist (all)
+546 HP while in form
Status protection, of course.
15% recovery boost, end cost .26/sec
Essence boost -
1 rech, 2 heal - 2 minutes of 145HP, 145 HP (enhanceable - 243 HP.)
486 point heal, 15% toxic resistance.
... of course, then you have to add the shields -
Incandescence, 11.25% En/NE
IF you take Quantum shield, add 22.5% (unenhanced) to that, for 33.75%.
Shining shield, Sm/L - 22.5.
Each of which costs .26/sec.
As far as QFly - and I like QFly, and have always taken it on my PBs - it's not a "panic button" the same as dwarf. IF you can catch it early, and IF you aren't mezzed or don't have an incoming mez, sure, it'll work - but you can't do anything but fly away and heal. Hope you don't have a DOT on you eating away that last bit of health... -
Quote:But... that's precisely what happened in the majority of cases. I seem to recall a dev statement even of "partially rewarding even in case of failure, because we do expect you to fail at first" - which they do with the threads awarding during the trial, iXP and the like.Originally Posted by Flux_Vector
Balancing the trials around incarnate powers would've presented a catch-22 on their release: you'd need the powers to do them, but need to do them to get the powers. The likely outcome of that paradigm would be people failing numerous trials and progressing based on ixp and the astral merits from what stages they could complete, before succeeding at all, like in progression raiding in ye olde 'other mmo that was really really popular 10 years ago.'
Those build up, slots unlock and suddenly more people have more capability to use to complete the trials successfully.
Compare it to (say) a Hamidon raid... you don't get a "lesser" Hami-O, or a component to build a Hami-o - if you fail, you fail.
For the snipped chunk, see my comment in a slightly earlier reply to another post...
Read it that way and as observation. *shrug* I'm enjoying the argument.Quote:Edit: You're free to disagree, and I've never presented this as anything but an opinion. I quite obviously *do* disagree - like I said, I think the effect on IO builds (which IIRC have started to bug the devs a bit) is more a (to them) "happy side effect" than even a secondary consideration in the design of the trials and mobs. Primarily because the lore buffs would make higher defense/regen/etc. even more prevalent - and mobs would be designed to counter it.
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Quote:... er.... sure.Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Peacebringers play much better without forms.
Peacebringers have more flexibility in not *using* the forms, I'll grant - I even make mention of it in my guide. Peacebringers give up status protection, a resist boost and second heal (dwarf) primarily.
I've run triform and human form to 50. Human's easier to slot. I don't think, though, that I would agree they play "much" better without forms. They play differently - but they're not at the (lost second mire) disadvantage of Warshades without them. -
Quote:Well, think about it -Originally Posted by Zenyth
At the same time I don't think its a coincidence that the enemies in trials all conveniently have accuracy above the defensive softcap. Abnormal enough that the players asked them about why that was. I dont recall the answer the devs gave to that question, but I imagine one was given.
Creating these trials, they *knew* nobody would be at top (or even "mid-incarnate") power. At best, somebody would have a Tier4 Alpha.
Do they balance at that point? No. Why? Because in very little time - as has been shown multiple times - players are going to work their way up. If they don't leave it at a challenging level, but at that *base* level - where accuracy above softcap, for instance, seems "abnormal," then the content itself will be trivialized in a matter of days, with multiple players having the powers to counter that - and by dint of playing with others, raising others to those same levels.
So, no, it certainly wasn't a coincidence. It was absolutely by design - but not to counter IO-softcapped/etc builds, but to offset the very powers they're granting to multiple players at once in those self-same trials. Softcapped builds may hit those same numbers, sure, so they're effective versus them - but I see that more as a (happy or not, depending on your stance on it) side effect as opposed to a root cause.
And you don't think it's telling in the slightest that everything he mentioned *excluded* the Incarnate buffs? It read, to me, like (and I don't mean this as any offense to him) he was trying damn hard to maintain a blind spot on the Incarnate-granted buffs. Intentionally or not - but again, that's how it read to me.Quote:Also are you really gonna fault him for not listing every exception he could think of by name? Really? I didnt know we took ourselves that seriously around here.
And if I can snag his later comment:
For most trials I've seen, and given the area of buff effect on the Incarnate buffs, there's no coordination *needed.* You've got your group huddled around launching powers at spawns/turrets/AVs, or slightly smaller groups huddled around glowies to destroy. They give natural buff points in all but a very few areas (going from glowie to glowie in the sabotage phase - but people seem to group just as much to destroy those things - or the prisoner escape phase, where high defense and the like isn't really needed anyway.)Quote:Originally Posted by Flux_vectorI do not see people making a concentrated effort to coordinate destiny buffing of the whole league to any effective level on a consistent basis. The amount of effort it would take to do so would be prohibitive anyway, given approximately 1 minute of high-efficiency buffing per destiny power. The league would have to group hug and the designated people use their destiny every minute.
So, there's no need to call for a "group hug." The points come up naturally. -
We've been saying that about the mole machines for... how long now?
Dear devs:
When the strategy to beat something is, "Set attack on auto and go make dinner. Before sitting down, move to the next thing and go EAT dinner and do the dishes, pick third item and watch a movie, then pick fourth item and get some sleep," resistance and/or hitpoints should, quite likely, be reexamined. -
Quote:I'm looking more at the specific buffs he mentions.Originally Posted by Zenyth
No, from his comments, he thinks its rare to see anyone doing single target buffs consistently, but "set and forget" and "drop in the clump and push for buff" arent. the Incarnate buffs are "drop in the clump and push for buff" in their intent. Though more of a "drop in the general vicinity of the clump and you're probably good" sorta way.
The point - which we seem to have gotten off of here - is that his statement:
is likely false. While you *can* get some decent self-buffs going via IOs, the devs *cannot* balance around that - as some of us do, after all, use SOs. (Heck, finished the Trapdoor mission on my Ice/Psy Dom on SOs.) They *can,* however, start balancing/creating mobs to counter the buffs earned via the incarnate system, and that's likely what they're doing.Quote:I said that the trial content seems to take at least some level of IO build into account in its difficulty tuning.
Using the Incarnate mobs as an argument that they "don't balance around SOs" any more, or that doing so is a bad policy/bad design/obsolete, isn't really an argument that can be supported. -
Quote:From his comments, he's thinking Force Field and the like, not the Incarnate buffs. There's no reason, after all, that the *incarnate* trials would be balanced in any way around mind link, force field and the like, or even IOs (at which point, do you focus on commons, cheap sets, or purpled out monstrosities? There's no way they could realistically do so) - but they WOULD be created with the Incarnate system de/buffs in mind.Originally Posted by Zenyth
I think those fall under the "PBAoE" category Flux mentioned.
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Quote:...Originally Posted by Flux_Vector
You have something of a point, but at least until the AOE buffing change goes live and people actually start using buffs more often, I don't see buffing as very prevalent in trials, beyond toggle (leadership or big bubble) and PBAOE type buffs (AM, mindlink, RA, etc). Heck, in normal content I'm pleasantly surprised when I run into buffing set characters who even have their buffs, let alone actually make a serious effort to buff me consistently for an entire mission.
You don't see people firing off Barrier and the like constantly in iTrials?
Really?
I'm not talking FF. I'm talking the *incarnate buffs.* The ones that provide massive (as in "Hey, look, capped!") buffs, the gaining and slotting of which are rather the *point* of the trials. -
And I seem to recall a statement that 'fixing that list is harder than you'd think.' (One of the ustreams.)
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Quote:You'll note I said "Massive buffs and level shifts," not just "level shifts." They're designed to offset things like Barrier (which gives a nice big buff,) or be able to fight through some of the Interface debuffs.Originally Posted by Flux_Vector
Level shifts may be baked into the difficulty by the enemies being +4.
I don't see level shifts as a particularly good explanation for the enemies having auto-hit debuffs and auto-hit powers, or 14% higher base accuracy, or being able to do enough damage in a single hit to one-shot code a 1500 health character. Those are all things that counter "characters that are only hit by one attack out of 20 on average normally." Ie, defense builds.
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No, level shifts themselves aren't enough to make enemies tougher - but buffs giving big chunks of +Def, +res, +HP, +regen and the like are - enough to ignore the "IO'd or not" question. They're still supposed to present SOME sort of challenge to 8-24 Tier-whatevered Incarnates, after all. Even ones still on SOs otherwise. -
Quote:Are you sure about that? Do we have a dev statement on that?Originally Posted by Flux_Vector
I didn't say 'kheldians have difficulty completing trials' I said that the trial content seems to take at least some level of IO build into account in its difficulty tuning.
See, I'd say it's more "The trials have the fact their rewards can, and probably will, lead to massive buffs and level shifts built into its difficulty setting" than anything about IO builds. The trials are Incarnate trials - and based around people with Incarnate powers. They were a bear to complete the first few days, then - as more people, including khelds tyvm, got level shifts and other powers on top of familiarity - became routine.
The biggest challenge with them at this point is lag, with team coordination - not IO builds or AT selection - in second. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Eislor
I prefer two starting zones simply so I can avoid Atlas Park./agreed with both of these.Quote:Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Atlas Park and Galaxy have unique environs and backstory to each of them that would be BETTER as separate zones than as one conglomerate mess. That's genuinely 'taking things out of the game'.
Leave them separate. -
Quote:Heh. How many are you up to at this point, Ironik? (CIT is proving to be a maintenance PITA with its "Oh, I'm holding on to this server - guess what, we're doubling this character!" bit - I don't need their help to fill up servers! They show 303 for me, but I have to go check them. Trimming the ones I know are doubled... 293.)Originally Posted by LittleDavid
I read your post, then I clicked your signature link.
I cower in awe before your army of alts! -
I'd have to combine the folders between two... hmm, maybe three.. computers first to find out.
Not *that* many - I would probably hit 100 or so though.
Edit: Yep. 102. -
Quote:See, the thing is (from my perspective) that players have gotten used to a specific functionality from them. They may have put them as "pet" powers for the simple reason of wanting them to be mobile, without realizing what a hash would be made of the pet AI routines (which in turn really hamper PS.)Originally Posted by teflonshugenja
I think this is actually assuming too much of the current functionality is protected by the Cottage Rule. So long as Photon Seekers continues to summon damaging pets, the Rule is preserved - it doesn't demand that PS continue to be used as a mini-nuke. That is a player-derived convention stemming not from the fact that PS is a good nuke, but from the fact that it is bad at being used for anything but a nuke.
The ELA change from Conserve Power to Energize may have retained some of the old functionality, but it dramatically changed the way the power was actually used. We could use some o' that. I would much rather Photon Seekers became a genuine pet power - which presumably it was intended to be at one point - rather than a poor nuke masquerading as a pet power.
Plus - and obviously I can only speak for myself and my suggestion here - it may well be that the only reason they're classified, invention wise, as a "pet" power is that it would be that or nothing (well, that or nothing "but knockback sets," and those are popular as mules more than anything.) They can't really call it PBAOE - because it's not "player based." They can't really call it "targeted," since it's not - it's cast and let to go its own way. It has, judging from comments on the boards, become a near-instantaneous short range, high damage (aka, nuke) power - and I don't think we can honestly ignore that usage. It's become a (the) significant usage, as opposed to the way Power Sink/Conserve Power were in Energy/Electric auras. (*I* used them for that, but I seem to recall "It's skippable" being a common opinion of at least CP.)
Basically, it sounds like you're saying "genuine pet power" and thinking of Animated Stone, Jack Frost and the like - and forgetting the ones that seem to fit PS's category more, "point-blank" to "temporary dumb" pets like Tornado, Sleet and Oil Slick - all of which are also "pets," though they don't (generally) take the Pet/RIPet sets. -
Quote:And they can be wrong about that role, as well. See any "healer" broadcast (and the multiple comments made about "That's a sure-fire way to tell I don't want to be on that team.")Originally Posted by _Dawun_
I'm glad you're not picky, I'm not either, but there are plenty of players that have a low opinion of Kheldians and they do stress over the usefulness of team members. You can point to any of the other AT's and invite them to play a specific role or because they offer some specific powers that benefit a team. It's harder to make the same argument for Kheldians.
And yes, it's harder to make "the same" argument for Kheldians - because it's the flexibility OF the kheldian that is what they're bringing. Tank getting too much aggro? Kheld in Dwarf can off-tank and protect the squishies. Need more firepower? Nova. Throw in some control powers and the like, mix well, bake at 425 degrees for 35 minutes and you've got a Kheld.
The flip side of it, of course, is that while a controller or defender - or blaster, or tank or what have you can be turned away because "we're really set for that already," again, the Kheld is filling multiple roles and can start to make up where the team is lacking. And if the team is balanced, you've got a fairly strong Kheld there to help roll through everything. -
Quote:We didn't have ATs locked into roles 6 years ago, either.Originally Posted by _Dawun_
Kheldians need to bring more to the team than "I can kinda mimic AT's A, B, and C" because that idea is outdated. We don't have AT's locked into roles like we did 6 years ago.
Only reason ever needed to invite someone: "Hey, want to play?" If you need more than that, you're (generic you) stressing over it too much.Quote:The game has evolved with powerset and epic/patron proliferation that allows for specialized AT's to crossover into other roles without the need for Kheldians to fill in those gaps. There needs to be a reason for members of a moderately coordinated team to say "Invite that Kheld!" besides filling a space.