Lothic

Actually I thought Smallville's Wonder Woman costume was pretty much just as "cheap and plastic" as this latest pilot version. Still, it was good to get to see where this pilot was trying to go with it regardless.

The really sad part of this whole situation is that I've seen a number of amature cosplay costumes at conventions that blow all of these supposed "professional" Hollywood outfits away. Maybe the next time they get another chance in 10 or 20 years someone at a TV network will come up with something better. *shrugs*

Well this latest attempt at Wonder Woman was apparently doomed from the beginning. As I said even in my last post on this thread a couple of months ago I was never totally sold on the idea and wanted the chance to see before I judged it. I guess that'll never happen now.

But for what it's worth it was clear to anyone who paid attention to the very first info that broke about this pilot months ago that this Wonder Woman was ALWAYS going to end up in the classic "shorts" version of the costume at some point. One of the leaks mentioned that her shorts outfit was clearly hanging in her closet along with other outfits. People decided to throw so many hissy-fits at the first photos we saw that the news that we were going to eventually see her in a version of the shorts outfit was totally ignored by most people. In hindsight maybe they shouldn't have kept this as much of a "secret" as it ended up being because maybe there would have been less negative reaction to the show. Who knows?

Anyway here's an example of what it was going to look like:



Eh, to be honest it's not that terribly impressive. But at least we can say this show failed for reasons OTHER than her not being in the classic short outfit, assuming that counts for anything. *shrugs*

It only tells me what we've known all along: the suits really don't have any better clue about these things than we do.

My point about Cathy Lee Crosby's Wonder Woman leading to the Lydna Carter series pretty much already discredited this line of thinking. I don't know if you've ever had the "joy" of seeing Crosby's Wonder Woman...



but if you had then you would know that following your logic it would've taken at least 100 years before anyone would have given the Lynda Carter show a chance. Crosby's WW was truly that god-awful horrible - trust me. Contrary to your conclusion we saw the 1974 abomination that was many times worst than Kelley's pilot lead to a multi-year WW series the very next year.

Basically there is no way you're going to be able to convince me that not having a series on the air is a -good- thing for the future of the character no matter how bad it would've been. Wonder Woman has already weathered an absolute crap version on TV and lived to tell the tale. I promise you Kelley's version would have been near-perfection by comparison.

I loved how the guy on the end, after seeing all the other guys get whacked, kept begging not to have to do the same thing. And people wonder why the birth rate in Japan is in such decline.

A handful of corporate suits made a decision to kill the show in its crib. It's actually relatively hard to automatically assume that means that the millions of people who watch NBC shows would have agreed with them. *shrugs*

While it was likely most "comic book geeks" would have hated Kelley's show it still -might- have found enough of an audience of "normal" people regardless. And that popularity -might- have encouraged a better future show or movie. Without a series on the air, even a bad one, we are in the same stagnate boat we've been in for decades. Even a bad show would have overcome the "mindset inertia" and gotten things looking better for a better future for this character.

Maybe the "controversy" over this failure will be enough to accomplish the same effect. I'm simply doubting it at this point.

Let's face it: Wonder Woman on TV has never had a completely flawless legacy. People who are old enough remember the absolute abomination the Cathy Lee Crosby Wonder Woman was. Ironically the David Kelley pilot, with all its apparent faults, was actually shaping up to easily be 10x BETTER than that joke of a show was which actually got on TV somehow. Ultimately everything is relative. If we were honest with ourselves we'd admit that even the Lydna Carter Wonder Woman was fairly silly.

Also remember that everyone here is merely ASSUMING that the Kelley show would have instantly crashed and burned. True there was a lot of evidence to suggest that's what would have happened. But we'll honestly NEVER know if that was going to come to pass or not. Heck, I predicted Smallville wouldn't last a full season because I thought it totally sucked at the time. Go figure. *shrugs*

Again I'll ascribe to the idea that even in 2011 "bad publicity is still good publicity". Or at least would have been at any rate.

Actually I still disagree with the "we're better off it didn't happen" theory.

Consider the history involved: People had be trying to get a Wonder Woman TV show made for years through the 1960s and early 70s. The very first live action Wonder Woman that finally managed to get made was the very cheesy Cathy Lee Crosby version in 1974. Despite that being a horrible version of the character it directly generated enough interest in the idea to finally get us the Lynda Carter Wonder Woman shows of 1975-79.

I contend that even though Cathy Lee Crosby's Wonder Woman was horrible it served a valuable purpose at the time to lead to something better. I feel that even if this 2011 David Kelley show had turned out to be horrible it would have at least primed the pump again to have a better chance to get a GOOD Wonder Woman show made in the relative near future. With the news that this series was easily discarded before it got a real chance I figure our collective chances for a good show in the next 5 to 10 years is now virtually nil. *shrugs*

I'm all for that scenario. Thing is people have been talking about hypotheticals like this for years and now as of today we're pretty much back to square one with -any- live action attempt.

Considering the relative crap most network-based TV is now-a-days any pilot would have to be fairly bad to not even make it far enough to get aired before it got cancelled. Still, I'm now left wondering how many more decades it'll be before someone gets this close again to making a new Wonder Woman series.

Yeah I'll have to agree with Snow_Globe that it really is a joke to think that the problems with the 5th Column Gladiator badge were something the Devs "just learned about" via the recent Ustream chat. Many people have been highlighting the issues with this badge and suggesting solutions for it for many YEARS now.

I knew the Devs didn't pay -that- much attention to the forums to begin with.
But things like this only go to show us that the Devs probably don't really pay serious attention to sections of the forums AT ALL.

If somebody eventually created a good game that was effectively "City of Heroes 2" then I wouldn't ultimately care what they called it. But calling it "Paragon" is certainly fine.

Idiocracy implied it was going to take several hundred years for society to get dumb enough to produce TV shows like that.
But with the way things are going I figure we'll get there in a matter of months at this point.

Actually Kelley's Wonder Woman was supposed to end up in the classic "swimming suit" costume by the end of this pilot. Those are pictures we haven't seen yet and now may never see. Clearly the problems with the new versions of the costume didn't help the chances for this show, but I think there was more going "wrong" with it than that. *shrugs*

Well for what's it worth I didn't say the exact number of years - I only said "30+ years" that time so I guess it's up to you if you want to drink to that or not. On the other hand you might want to save that drink for the NEXT time there's a chance for a Wonder Woman TV series. It looks like NBC finally decided to give up on this attempt to get her back on TV.

It's unfortunate because even though I never had all that much faith in Kelley's pilot I still think it would have been better to have had the character back on TV even if only for a little while. At this point she's not only a character that hasn't been on TV for decades but she's ALSO a character that they failed to get back on TV as recently as 2011. That's pretty much a double-strike against there ever being a GOOD Wonder Woman series at this point. Oh well.

I had a few deaths with my Fire/Rad when I first ran her through the Lambdas. Of course that was right after I20 went live when everyone lacked the +2 and +3 Incarnate shifts so it was hard for everyone then. All I can say is that now with +3 shifts and everyone else on a league mostly shifted up too it's much more enjoyable.

As far as "avoiding choking cloud" goes I finally gave up on it and respec'd out of it several years ago. I know that fact is slightly tangential to the point of this thread, but still not having it at all did help me NOT die too much on my first Lambdas. This is yet another example of it being far more trouble than it's worth.

Even the "Queen of Canada" was there, who also queefed a little bit, as is the tradition...

I think despite all the negative angst against this particular pilot it should still get a reasonable chance to prove itself on TV.

It's not like we have to worry that a bad Wonder Woman show in 2011 is going to make the chances of ever getting other live-action versions any worse at this point. We're already at the bottom of the alternative barrel. We've had 30+ years of no Wonder Woman at all so even a short-lived "recent failure" would be better for us comic book geeks than nothing because at least it'd put the character back into the minds of the current generation of TV producers and give it a chance to picked up again by someone else who'd treat the property better before yet another 30 years goes by.

Look at it this way: The super cheesy Cathy Lee Crosby Wonder Woman back in 1974 lead very quickly to the Lynda Carter series that started in 1975. Maybe the mere existence of this questionable Adrianne Palicki pilot will be enough to lead to a better series in the near future.

Actually we need to thank whoever it was in the UK who made the decision to declare that no one was allowed to use the footage of the British royal wedding for parody purposes. I'll bet the very minute the guys at South Park heard about that prohibition they instantly came up with the idea for this episode.

Yes today is Wednesday... the day the invasion is supposed to happen on Virtue.

I don't have any problem considering such an idea just as a hypothetical game mechanic. But the chances of such a concept being shoehorned into this game is effectively zero at this point. It would require so many fundamental power balance changes that this would probably be a better suggestion for CoH2 than something for this game.

Like Memphis_Bill said way back before this game even launched it originally had a more "free-form" power scheme. But it quickly became clear during beta testing that everyone would simply min/max their characters and there was no good way to balance that. They scrapped the idea in favor of the AT/Powerset system we have now.

Champions Online arguably tried a free-form powers system as well. It also arguably failed, at least in part, because that system ultimately proved to be too problematic. That game has now fallen back to a more "archetype" class structure in its reworked F2P format.

I'm honestly not too familiar with DCUO so I don't know anything about the "fight style" thing you mentioned. Still I'd have reservations about any kind of free-form power system, even one that was only kinda, sorta free-form like you're implying here, based on the relatively bad track record they've had so far.

Bottomline I think free-form game systems work much better in "pen-n-paper" settings because you can have a human GM control things directly and make rulings on the fly to maintain balance. I've yet to see an automated MMO game manage the same flexibility required to prevent "tank-magery" from taking over. I think this is one of those ideas that always sounds better on paper than it actually is in reality. *shrugs*

Actually if I'm not mistaken all the physical servers (even the "EU" ones) are already co-located in the US. The EU servers started out over in Europe but they were moved here. This server list merge is just a logical/GUI move, not a physical one.