/UNSIGNED. Every time this comes up. Just because something works for another game does NOT mean it is a good idea.
How would that be an improvement? Your options are still limited and your character has to fill a certain role, it's just done slightly differently.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
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Given the reception of that "other game," I'm not sure we can actually say it works.|
Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint 0l
/UNSIGNED. Every time this comes up. Just because something works for another game does NOT mean it is a good idea.
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And - they tried this in alpha. It *didn't* work. Thus our getting the Archetype system.
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I was kinda hoping you had one of those pasties for this. |
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Given the reception of that "other game," I'm not sure we can actually say it works.
And - they tried this in alpha. It *didn't* work. Thus our getting the Archetype system. |
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I don't have any problem considering such an idea just as a hypothetical game mechanic. But the chances of such a concept being shoehorned into this game is effectively zero at this point. It would require so many fundamental power balance changes that this would probably be a better suggestion for CoH2 than something for this game.|
Originally Posted by mushu
Having a totally freeform AT would rip balance to shreds, but by using something similar to the DCUO system, balance could still be maintained... assuming it was implemented well.
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Like Memphis_Bill said way back before this game even launched it originally had a more "free-form" power scheme. But it quickly became clear during beta testing that everyone would simply min/max their characters and there was no good way to balance that. They scrapped the idea in favor of the AT/Powerset system we have now.
Champions Online arguably tried a free-form powers system as well. It also arguably failed, at least in part, because that system ultimately proved to be too problematic. That game has now fallen back to a more "archetype" class structure in its reworked F2P format.
I'm honestly not too familiar with DCUO so I don't know anything about the "fight style" thing you mentioned. Still I'd have reservations about any kind of free-form power system, even one that was only kinda, sorta free-form like you're implying here, based on the relatively bad track record they've had so far.
Bottomline I think free-form game systems work much better in "pen-n-paper" settings because you can have a human GM control things directly and make rulings on the fly to maintain balance. I've yet to see an automated MMO game manage the same flexibility required to prevent "tank-magery" from taking over. I think this is one of those ideas that always sounds better on paper than it actually is in reality. *shrugs*
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I know. Memphis Bill's slipping or something.|
Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint 0l
I was kinda hoping you had one of those pasties for this.
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Bill? You okay? Don't have a fever or anything do you?
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I'll get the cowbell!
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Originally Posted by Red Valkyrja
Bill? You okay? Don't have a fever or anything do you? |
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
About the only thing I agree with from the OP is that every character should have access to a reliable ranged attack. I know we've got craftable temp powers now, but they run out and you can't slot them. They reworked every melee attack set in AE specifically to ensure that no custom enemies could be stuck in a situation where they're unable to attack, and yet it's still okay for players to be in that position for some reason? Makes no sense to me. 
As I've mentioned in other threads, I'd like to see a new Assault/Defense AT at some point... but I've got no real desire for a pick-your-own-power system.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Given the reception of that "other game," I'm not sure we can actually say it works.
And - they tried this in alpha. It *didn't* work. Thus our getting the Archetype system. |
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Originally Posted by Lothic
I don't have any problem considering such an idea just as a hypothetical game mechanic. But the chances of such a concept being shoehorned into this game is effectively zero at this point. It would require so many fundamental power balance changes that this would probably be a better suggestion for CoH2 than something for this game.
Like Memphis_Bill said way back before this game even launched it originally had a more "free-form" power scheme. But it quickly became clear during beta testing that everyone would simply min/max their characters and there was no good way to balance that. They scrapped the idea in favor of the AT/Powerset system we have now. Champions Online arguably tried a free-form powers system as well. It also arguably failed, at least in part, because that system ultimately proved to be too problematic. That game has now fallen back to a more "archetype" class structure in its reworked F2P format. I'm honestly not too familiar with DCUO so I don't know anything about the "fight style" thing you mentioned. Still I'd have reservations about any kind of free-form power system, even one that was only kinda, sorta free-form like you're implying here, based on the relatively bad track record they've had so far. Bottomline I think free-form game systems work much better in "pen-n-paper" settings because you can have a human GM control things directly and make rulings on the fly to maintain balance. I've yet to see an automated MMO game manage the same flexibility required to prevent "tank-magery" from taking over. I think this is one of those ideas that always sounds better on paper than it actually is in reality. *shrugs* |
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Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
About the only thing I agree with from the OP is that every character should have access to a reliable ranged attack. I know we've got craftable temp powers now, but they run out and you can't slot them. They reworked every melee attack set in AE specifically to ensure that no custom enemies could be stuck in a situation where they're unable to attack, and yet it's still okay for players to be in that position for some reason? Makes no sense to me.
As I've mentioned in other threads, I'd like to see a new Assault/Defense AT at some point... but I've got no real desire for a pick-your-own-power system. |
Tanks, Scrappers, Brutes and Stalkers all get "reliable" (what does that even mean?) ranged attacks in their APPs and PPPs, and some even get ranged attacks in their melee power sets. So, it's already possible to have the combination of melee, range and defense in one AT.
The 1st Message Board Warrior. m/
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Heh.|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
I'll get the cowbell!
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Might not have a cut and paste, I do have the guide to the original COH trailer - unfortunately, that trailer, I'm told, has vanished and I need to find a copy of it somewhere.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
I'm honestly not too familiar with DCUO so I don't know anything about the "fight style" thing you mentioned. Still I'd have reservations about any kind of free-form power system, even one that was only kinda, sorta free-form like you're implying here, based on the relatively bad track record they've had so far.
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The Fight Style thing worked like this....
At creation each character would pick a fighting style. The available styles were Archery,Pistols,Rifle,Two Handed Weapons,One Handed Weapons,Dual Weapons, Staff, Martial Arts and Super Strength(it's possible I'm missing 1 or 2)
They would then pick a power set from Fire,Ice,Sorcery,Nature,Tricks&Traps, and 2 others that I'm forgetting.
Each power set had two trees and between your style and powers you could make a very unique character. At one point my Dual Wielder had twin Claymores for the lols.
Overall I liked the Style/Power system. My problems with the game came from the mind numbingly repetitive end game. I liked the game but not as a subscription MMO.
Hi all!
After browsing through the forums, I came across an idea which is, in a word, controversial here - the concept of Freeform Archetypes.
I bring it up because I, for one, would love to see something like this implemented for purely RP reasons (I have a definite character concept that I would love to make into a playable char.)
So, to that end, I offer the following possible solution to the issue of play balance. Offer a "fight style" selection, similar to what they have on DCU Online. That way, ATs that are primarily brawlers can still get some range attack options, and vice-versa.
Having a totally freeform AT would rip balance to shreds, but by using something similar to the DCUO system, balance could still be maintained... assuming it was implemented well.
Well, it's just an idea. Let me know what you think. Thanks.