Local_Man
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Posts
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Quote:Not only is it easier to fit in Flash than when this archaic thread was started, but with the current IO builds, Flash can recharge pretty quickly. Mine recharges in around 60 sec, and lasts about 26 seconds. That's pretty effective control -- not every group, but often enough to be worth while.Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon
These days, with inherent stamina allowing more powers to be selected, I don't see why you can't take both and have good numbers in both with less slots.
Lewis
Plus, with the new BAF Trial, Flash is useful for the Prisoner Escape part while Spectral Terror is useless and PA is only good for doing damage. -
I'm about halfway through Invasion: Book One of the Secret World Chronicle. So far, it is a pretty interesting read. Some interesting characters. The mysterious Nazi villain seems a little bit cheap as a bad guy -- everybody hates the Nazis. But it is good enough to have me keep reading -- the writing style has to be enjoyable enough for me to keep going, and this one is well enough written.
It also comes with a CD with a bunch of stuff on it, including the podcasts and several other Mercedes Lackey books in electronic form. -
Controllers . . . my favorite archtype. Each powerset combo plays differently. And each one has great things going for it.
Earth/Rad has been mentioned above. Great choice to team with a Blaster . . . Take a look at the guide in my sig. I really should update it some, but just haven't gotten around to adding some IO builds. Still, the information in the guide is mostly current. If you want more up to date stuff on the Rad side, my Ill/Rad guide is up to date.
Earth is the best AoE control set in the game, but low damage. Not the lowest, but pretty low. (Ice and Electric are a little bit lower.) Earth specializes in ranged AoE control . . . you will get to stand back and monitor the action while you use the best tools you have to provide the best benefit. Stun+Immob, Knockdown, AoE Hold, Slow, even Sleep (if you take it -- I didn't). Add in Rad and the layers of mitigation get even better, with the AoE Immob+a ToHit Debuff making it so that the foes can't move and they can't hit you and your team.
And nobody will ever question whether you are contributing . . . . Earth Control is not exactly subtle.
Another secondary to consider is Cold. The Defensive Shields are great on teams. It is strong on single target debuffs in the low levels, but at 35 and 38, you get great AoE debuffs. It is very late blooming, however, and has no heals. You will need to wait until late levels before you see how good it is.
I love */Storm, but it is not the best set for teams . . . too much chaos. Earth/Storm is a great combo, though, with the -knockback in Stone Cages preventing much of the knockback from Storm. (I was just playing my Earth/Storm last night on some Incarnate trials and a Rikti Raid.)
All Controller primaries are great . . . but if you are looking for AoE control, I would say that Earth is best, Plant and Elec are quite good ranged AoE controllers early. (I have Plant/Kin and Plant/Rad and Elec/Rad.) Mind has great AoE control late -- Mind is not my favorite set, but lots of folks love it -- might overall be better for a dominator. (I have a Mind/FF and a Mind/Storm Controllers, and I'm working on a Mind/Energy Dom.) I love Illusion but admit it is not the strongest on AoE Control -- still if you are interested, read my Ill/Rad guide. (I have Ill/Rad, Ill/TA, Ill/Storm and Ill/Cold, all great combos.)
Fire is more focused on Damage and puts you in the middle of the action. Fire/Rad and Fire/Kin are great combos and popular for good reason. Ice is another set that can put you in the middle of the action, but focuses more on "soft" control of slow and -Recharge -- My Ice/Storm usually follows behind the tank. Gravity is a quirky set . . . my Grav/Storm is mostly a solo character.
Of the secondaries, Rad's anchored toggle debuffs frustrate some people when teammates kill the anchors . . . but that means that foes are dropping. Kin is a very busy set -- provides a lot of team benefit, but constantly SB'ing everyone can be annoying. You know about Emp. Therm is an interesting set that lets you provide Resistance shields for the team, healing and some debuffs. Earth/Therm is a good combo, with the Resistance Shields making your Rocky pet very hard to kill. Trick Arrow is all Debuffs and controls with no buffs, but Earth/TA has more AoE control than any combo in the game. FF is ok . . . good shields, with mez protection in the big bubble and one of the best personal protection "panic button" powers in Personal Force Field -- the rest of the set is mostly knockbacks. Sonic -- I have never gotten very far with the set before I lost interest.
Let us know what you choose, and I can give you some suggestions on powers to take and skip. -
The ally shields are a huge help, especially for squishy teammates. Those Cold Shields can increase their survivability substantially. It also helps resistance-based armor sets.
I have a group of folks I team with on a regular basis. We each play the character that seems like fun at the time . . . but when I pull out my Ill/Cold, I always get a positive reaction . . . and periodic reminders to apply shields when I may be a little late. It is pretty obvious to me that the Cold Shields are appreciated.
I skipped Frostworks. There are a lot of powers that I felt would be more useful. Even Recall Friend. -
Quote:On my Ill/Cold, I make up for the lack of Aid Self with Hibernation from the Ice APP set. I don't need it all that often, but when I do, it can be wonderful -- can't be interrupted like Aid Self, lets you recover Endurance as well as Health (not needed all that much on a */Cold), lets your powers recharge while you are in full safety.Originally Posted by Lord_Saigon
Decided just to roll and lvl the Cold, got to 23 in one night. Not bad, the decision was based on how I had to look outside the storm set for -regen, which doesn't allow me to get something else opposed to cold. I've looked at alot of builds and none of them include aidself, but to my surprise contains snow storm, why is that? Does sleet not do the knockdown freezing rain does? Would make snow storm seem not needed if so.
The Ice APP also provides a Defense shield, a fast single target attack and two different ranged AoE attacks. That fast single target attack is key -- Blind-SW-Ice Blast-SW makes a fast and effective attack chain.
Snow Storm is really a great power -- I think many people underrate Slow powers like Snow Storm. Not only is it a large AoE toggle Slow, but it also has a huge amount of -Recharge and -Fly. The -Recharge is a form of AoE control that substantially reduces the foes' ability to attack.
And there are places in the game where Slows will affect foes when other control powers won't . . . like Bosses in the Escaped Mental Patient part of BAF and most foes in the ITF. I put Snow Storm on the toughest guys and everyone else is slowed to a crawl. -
Quote:The first thing to do is read Dech's great guide on Warshades HERE. Personally, I love my warshade but would not consider going without the forms -- that is part of what makes a Warshade so good is the way you can use the various powers to make the forms even better. Dwarf form is your mez protection. The damage done by a human-only Warshade is a bit pale compared to a well-made tri-form.Originally Posted by HardRider
Hey. After years of playing this game, i've decided ill look into making a WS as it looks cool in concept and is the only villain like epic i haven't played lol
I'm not looking for build help exactly yet..But is there any powers that best to avoid / take? i'm looking to be human mostly though I'll have Dark nova (not yet sure if its to attack or just as a travel means.) I wont be taking dwarf though
I have several Warshades on different servers. I have found it useful to take Hasten/Superspeed on them . . . Super Speed plus Shadow Cloak = full invisibility, which is very nice to have to get in the best position to use your Mire (build-up) power or later Eclipse (huge Resistance Buff), both of which require a large number of live foes.
I took the S/L shield but skipped the others . . . but that's because I spend a lot of time in my Forms. If you insist on staying in Human form, you may need those Shields.
Most people would skip the Teleport Foe power, but I like it. I can bring one minion, kill him quickly, and turn him into a Fluff-ball pet before aggroing the entire spawn.
There is a lot of flexibility in building a Warshade . . . seriously, read Dech's guide and then work on your build. -
Quote:The Force Feedback Chance for Recharge proc would be wasted, I believe. The Recharge would be cast on the Lightning Storm pseudopet . . . which cannot be affected by Recharge. I don't think the Recharge buff would get back to you.Originally Posted by Teeto_K
Procs and Thunderstorm. Namely, The "Chance for 100% +Recharge", and "Chance for Buildup" procs that can be slotted in it. Does it benefit itself with these when it casts it's thunderbolt power, or is it only a benefit to me when -I- cast the Thunderstorm?
The Decimation Chance for Build Up may work in Lightning Storm, but it is best used in a fast activating, fast recharging attack power. The Decimation set is great in Spectral Wounds because 5 give you a 6.25% Recharge. You can slot the proc, and then finish out the set with a 6th slot. (I put an Acc/Dam Hami-O in the last slot, but I had a lot of them sitting around.)
I have tried the Devastation Chance for Hold in Lightning Storm, and I like that one. It also fits the theme, since the hold is shown with a Tesla Cage. -
I have both Ill/Storm and Ill/Cold at 50. Despite the overlap in powers, they turn out to play a bit differently. Ill/Cold is great on TFs . . . teams love the cold shields and the Endurance/+Recovery (I often coordinate with a Blaster to fire it off just after he nukes). The powerful single target debuffs with -Regen make taking down AVs to be much, much easier. Leveling up is SLOW . . . you don't get two of the best powers in Cold until 35 and 38, and Sleet is not significantly different from Freezing Rain, that you get at 16 with a Stormie. The lack of AoE control is pretty significant . . . the AoE in Snow Storm is a big help. I have to play a bit more cautiously, since I don't have a self-heal and few self-protective powers -- The Cold APP's Hibernate really helps.
Ill/Storm is the king of Chaos. You get a lot of AoE mitigation in slows and knockbacks, and the massive ToHitDebuff in Hurricane. You get Freezing Rain at 16, making those lower levels much easier. You get added damage at 35 and 38. On teams, I find I have to limit my use of many of my powers to keep from frustrating teammates . . . Tornado does not make a good opener when that Tank or Scrapper is trying to gather foes into a tight group for an AoE attack. I can let loose when playing solo or small team.
Both sets are fun and have some overlap. Cold is more team-oriented and a late bloomer, and is more single-target focused. Storm is more chaotic and wild, more fun earlier and can handle groups by throwing them all over the place. -
Quote:How does that "support" your position? There is nothing inconsistant with what you quoted in my large response and what you quoted in the smaller snippets. I agree that Illusion's Distraction and Fear that it uses for AoE control are not "hard control," as that term is normally used. I never claimed that they were. But they are effective control even if they are "soft."Originally Posted by Saltyhero13
It is difficult to take your comments seriously when your previous comments are...
...and...
...that actually support my position.
I have nothing else to add to this pointless debate over semantics and stand by my original comments.
You seem to think that Illusion is lacking because it doesn't have hard control . . . and my position is that it works fine for AoE control. "Hard" and "soft" controls aren't that important -- what matters is that the controls are effective.
Other control sets are also effective with few "hard" controls . . . depending upon your definition of "hard." Electric Control does well with Sleep, Immob, Endurance Drain and Confuse. Are those "hard" or "soft?" Mind uses Terrorize as its most-frequent form of control, and uses Sleeps and Confuses.
And you seem to think that without "perma-PA," Illusion is lacking. I pointed out that "Perma-PA," while very nice to have, is not necessary to have an effective controller. . . And you had no response to that. -
I ran the Mender Ramiel arc on one of my level 50 characters and finished the last mission to get my Alpha Slot . . . and just as I was finishing, some buddies of mine announced that they were running an STF . . . Oh, goodie! I need Shards!
So off I go to run the STF . . . and I noticed that I wasn't getting any Shards about half way through. I asked everyone else if they were getting Shards . . . everyone (who was level 50 and had the Alpha Slot) said yes . . . I just assumed I was being unlucky.
Last mission in, I decided to check in case I had missed any shards that had dropped . . . and I didn't have the Alpha Slot. "What the . . ." Then I realized that in my hurry to join the TF, I had forgotten to do the last little chat with the Mender where you actually GET the Alpha Slot. . . . My buddies on Ventrilo suddenly heard a string of invictives which are not my usual language . . . -
My oldest son works at Disneyworld. He just found out that he is being transferred to work at the new Star Tours II when it opens in May. So, he may be one of the people helping with that show.
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Quote:I would probably pull a slot out of Spectral Terror rather than lose the -knockback. Spooky doesn't really need the slots, since you have some decent global Recharge and Accuracy.Originally Posted by Straenge
Ok.. Local.. I both love and hate you right now. That is without a doubt one of the best builds I have seen so far and hate that it took you as little time to come up with it.. I have spent days going over figures.. I have around 12 different builds going back and forth trying to figure out what works and what doesn't. Then I see this.. and just have to laugh.
Thank you very much.. that has a mix of just about everything I need. I am kicking myself now because for some reason, I have the same health slotting on my main storm/dark and didn't think about doing the same on this build. I kept getting frustrated because I had bought two sets of Decimation, 2 sets of posi and 3 sets of expedient and was trying to figure out how to use them all without going over.. Then, because I have never used aid other/aid self before, I figured this would be a good way to seeing how it works while keeping phant and tarantula alive a little longer when going after heavys.
You are right, I can't really afford all of the coercive or fortunata sets yet, I bought contagious and placate but thats all so far. But that can be said for several sets here but I will get them eventually. The only question I have is this.. well two..
Do you think it might be worth dropping the -kb and moving the second slot in Combat Jumping to Tarantula for another Recharge reduction? That will put it at practically perm standing. How you have the -KB kismet in there never even occurred to me since I was trying to fit more slots in other places but I definitely could use the -kb in those in between times when I get hit, but I just wonder if its worth 19 seconds of recharge on Tarantula.
Secondly, I rarely even touch glue arrow and was hesitant on even keeping it. I should probably open with it more often or use it after OSA but it never really occurs to me to use it until the last minute half the time. I am wondering if I should exchange that for Assault, even though that damage buff isn't much. Would it be worth it? At this point, I would say no since the glue can cause -recharge but the damage buff sounds like it would more then make up for the lack of a slow.
Outside those two, everything about this build I am loving and going to be respeccing tonight. Thanks again, Local.
I use Glue Arrow all the time. It is part of my Debuff Chain I use after I send out Phantom Army -- Acid, Disruption, Glue, PGA. I have those four powers set up in a line on my power bar so I can just click down the line. I often throw in Entangle and/or Ice Arrow, too, while I have the bow drawn. Glue Arrow helps me keep foes at range and in range of the debuffs and fills part of the AoE control hole in Illusion. I just wish the -Recharge was higher.
Assault is an OK power to have, but I would rather have Glue Arrow. I think many people underestimate the benefits of slow powers in this game. If things get out of hand, slowing your foes can save you from a face-plant by allowing you time to run away and let your powers recharge. Personally, I would drop Maneuvers or even PGA before Glue Arrow. -
Quote:There aren't any guides because Electric is the newest control set and nobody has gotten around to writing one yet. Cold is the newest secondary, too.Originally Posted by Mike_Honcho
I'm new to controllers after playing melee and VEATs. I made an elec/cold troller and was wondering if there were any useful tips since I can't seem to find any guides? So far through level 16 the damage is very, very underwhelming but I see some promise since sleeping enemies with no end don't tend to attack that much.
Electric Control is probably the second lowest damage control set there is. The only one lower is Ice Control. If you want to do damage as a controller, the better choices are Fire (AoE Melee), Plant (AoE cone/ranged), Illusion (ranged single target with pets), Mind (ranged single target damage, good AoE control in later levels) and Gravity (good but slow single target damage, unique playstyle due to level 26 power and pet). Earth Control is also low damage, but slightly higher than Electric.
Your powerset combo is definitely a support character -- plan to team rather than solo. You can solo some as you get into the upper levels, once you get your pets at 32 and the Resistance Debuffs from Sleet at 35 and Heat Loss at 38, and then the APP powers in the 40's, but it will always be lower damage and slower to solo than most other controllers. (If you want to try to solo, take Electric Fence slotted for damage and consider adding Air Superiority.)
Leveling up, you will want to focus on your AoE sleep (Static Field) and endurance drain. Jolting Chain provides a good short-term distraction to give you time to fire off other powers and drain a little bit more endurance. Chain Fences lets you keep foes in the area without preventing knockdown. The confuse power, Synaptic Overload, is a really nice opening attack since it does not draw aggro. -
Quote:Agree that Stamina needs full slotting, or minimum of 2 EndMod and the proc. Fire/Rad is usually starved for endurance, so more is good.Originally Posted by MaHaBone23
Three slot Stamina at least. Just for straight up End Mod. The +end proc is a relatively small bonus iirc.
Char and Cinders should both have the Lockdown Chance for Hold proc.
I'd also AM for recharge, not End Mod.
Three slot Hasten for Recharge. Ditto for IW. Both are tough to get perma, and you want both perma. Especially IW.
This thread has some other Frad builds, including mine.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=246756
Disagree on using the Lockdown proc in Char, and it probably isn't worth the slot in Cinders, either. Char and Cinders will hold minions and lieutenants on their own, so that proc only has any effect on bosses. (It will show the tesla cage animation showing that it hit, but stacked mag on an already-held foe is worthless.) On bosses, the power has a 20% chance for an extra mag that will hold bosses, so the 15% chance to Hold proc only will have any effect on the 80% of bosses who are missed. In the grand scheme, that proc ends up only affecting 2-3% of all foes. In Char, you could slot Damage which would cause Damage to every foe hit. Use the slot somewhere else instead of putting the proc in Cinders -- I would probably replace the Hold in Cinders with the Unbreakable Constraint Chance for Damage proc . . . . The purple procs hit quite often. (I used the 4 of the purple hold set in Choking Cloud, since it gets used a lot more than Cinders, but I gave up that nice 10% recharge so I could slot a common EndRdx and the Lockdown proc.)
I do like the Lockdown proc in Choking Cloud due to the unique mechanics of how that power works.
Agree that AM needs to be slotted for Recharge first, then Endmod. 6-slot it with Efficacy Adapter if you have enough slots and enough global recharge to make it perma, but it needs Recharge first. Also, Hasten needs at least 2 Recharge if perma, otherwise 3. Same with IW.
Ling Rad should have a single Accuracy in it if you have enough global Recharge -- it must hit AVs, so that added accuracy can be important. -
I have a Warshade at 50, and on Sunday, I got my ole PB up to 43 on an ITF. Both characters contribute substantially to teams, bringing damage and flexibility. On that ITF, yes a Blaster would have brought more damage than my Nova form. A Scrapper can do more damage than my Dwarf Form. But a Blaster would not be able to float overhead to blast, and then drop down in a different form to tank an ambush while taunting a foe away from a squishier teammate -- while the tank was busy elsewhere. Both PBs and WSs bring a flexible character who can contribute in many ways and fill the gaps when needed.
I haven't brought my WS on the new Trials yet, but I'm looking forward to it. (I've kind of slowed down on doing them because it was feeling like a bit of a grind. Only did an ITF yesterday.)
Not everyone has to be a "super-max" character. Sometimes, we just play for the fun. I find Khelds to be fun, and I'm happy to have them on the team as well as play them. -
Quote:Since Illusion does not have a -knockback power, Tornado is a more situational power than with most other controllers. It is still useful (a) against foes that cannot be knocked back like many AVs; (b) against high defense foes like Paragon Protectors who have hit their MOG power because Tornado is Auto-hit; (c) as a "panic button" power and source of chaos when things get out of hand or when you are likely to get mezzed; (d) as part of the "corner of doom" strategy, where you use Hurricane to push foes into a corner or cul-de-sac or small room with a doorway and let loose with Tornado and Lightning Storm and PA and Phantasm.Originally Posted by Teeto_K
I've recently been blasting through the levels on my Illusion/Storm controller, and having a blast, both solo and on Teams. My main (team oriented) build has a definite direction in mind, and I know for the most part what I'm doing, when to cut loose, and how not to ruin your team's day.
But, I'm left with some questions.
Tornado : I've heard of people using this as a source of damage. However, I begin to think that those people must be using it as an AOE power, with -Knockback controls like Fire and Stone cages, where I could see it's DOT being a much bigger contributor than it is for me, as it pushes a boss into the wall slowly ticking away at his HP. I take it I shouldn't be slotting this up as a damage work horse in this build?
However, using Tornado in most other times will be frustrating to your teammates. I was recently on an ITF with an Earth/Storm who was leading off with Tornado to throw everything everywhere, and then immobilizing them all spread out. It substantially slowed us down because several of us had good AoE Damage powers. (I was on my Elec/Shield scrapper.) Unfortunately, this guy was the team leader. We completed the TF, but it took a lot longer.
Quote:Waterspout Can't help you as I haven't tried it. I prefer the fast-recharging single target blasts from the hero APPs for Illusion. My Ill/Storm uses Ice.Quote:: This is a power I've never seen in action. It's apparently wildly popular, which puzzles me since Tornado, its closest analogue, is maligned and derided. If I'm taking this power to have "Yet another version of tornado's particular 'brand' of control contribution", will I be satisfied with what I got?
Quote:Spectral Terror Take a look at my Illusion/Radiation guide, as Spectral Terror is covered in there. Click the link in my sig.Quote:: How does the Terrorize aura on this work? The 20 foot radius one that keeps most things in place. Does it pulse frequently? How frequently? Or does it just fire once when the power is first summoned?
Thank you very much for your time, and have a good day. -
Oh, and by the way, using the Numina Heal IO in place of the Regen Tissue proc actually INCREASES your Regen because of the set bonus and the boost to Regen in Health.
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Giving up on a travel power is not unusual now-a-days, since the Raptor Pack is just as fast as speed-capped fly and Ninja Run is a viable travel power. I like having a travel power, but I leveled up one character without one -- it is certainly viable. You won't have access to that Raptor Pack during the new Incarnate trials, however.
I played around with your build a little bit, reslotting a few things. I did not change any of the power choices, but tried to get a little more damage out of your powers. Yes, I added the purple Confuse set in . . . it is expensive, but the second cheapest of the purple sets and you can earn it by running Tip Missions to get expensive enhancements to sell.
I moved the Miracle Proc to Health . . . in Aid Other it would only be active for 120 seconds after you healed someone else. I added some Acc/Dam Hami-Os, but you can use an Acc/Dam from some set without too much loss.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.93
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Technology Controller
Primary Power Set: Illusion Control
Secondary Power Set: Trick Arrow
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Spectral Wounds -- Decim-Build%(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(7), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(23), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), HO:Nucle(37)
Level 1: Entangling Arrow -- Acc-I(A)
Level 2: Blind -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(3), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(5), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(11), HO:Nucle(23), Dmg-I(40)
Level 4: Deceive -- CoPers-Conf%(A), CoPers-Conf/Rchg(5), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg(7), CoPers-Acc/Rchg(11), CoPers-Conf/EndRdx(31)
Level 6: Glue Arrow -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Superior Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RedFtn-Def(9), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(9), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(34), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36), RedFtn-EndRdx(36)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Krma-ResKB(27)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 14: Ice Arrow -- BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(A), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(15), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(15), BasGaze-Acc/Hold(34)
Level 16: Poison Gas Arrow -- FtnHyp-Plct%(A), FtnHyp-Acc/Sleep/Rchg(17), FtnHyp-Sleep/Rchg(17), FtnHyp-Sleep(33), FtnHyp-Acc/Rchg(34)
Level 18: Phantom Army -- ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(19), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(31), S'bndAl-Build%(33), S'bndAl-Dmg/Rchg(33)
Level 20: Acid Arrow -- AnWeak-Acc/Rchg(A), AnWeak-Acc/DefDeb(21), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg/EndRdx(31), Achilles-ResDeb%(37)
Level 22: Aid Other -- Heal-I(A)
Level 24: Aid Self -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal(25), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(37), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(42), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 26: Spectral Terror -- Abys-Acc/Fear/Rchg(A), Abys-Fear/Rng(27)
Level 28: Disruption Arrow -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Phantasm -- ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(39), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx(39), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), HO:Nucle(40)
Level 35: Oil Slick Arrow -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(40), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(42), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), Posi-Dmg/Rng(43), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 38: EMP Arrow -- BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(A), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(45), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(45), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(45)
Level 41: Scorpion Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(42)
Level 44: Poisonous Ray -- Achilles-ResDeb%(A), HO:Nucle(46), Dmg-I(46)
Level 47: Summon Tarantula -- ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(48), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx(48)
Level 49: Disruptor Blast -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50), Posi-Dmg/Rng(50), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Dmg-I(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Heal-I(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(21), Numna-Heal(29)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-End%(25), EndMod-I(29)
Level 4: Ninja Run
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Quote:You took a kind of offensive tone, so I chose to be offended. Now you have admitted you made a mistake, so it's all good.Originally Posted by Durakken
You're right, I'm wrong. My bad.
Keep in mind that anything after what I said that is wrong is based on a wrong premise, so you really didn't need to write this due to the thing it i replying to doesn't apply. -
Quote:Actually I can think of one situation where one particular power was specifically targetted by the Devs . . . when they made it so Hamidon is the only thing in the game that can kill Phantom Army.Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
Well, I have no problem with Illu "not being the best", HOWEVER, i think LM's point is that Ill is now the WORSE of all the controller sets for this particular raid.
TBH i think Illu players just need to blast things with their APPs during the escape phase and deal with the change of pace just this once. If future content further marginalizes our abilities, though, that'd count as a Bad Thing.
As for LM's question about one given powerset being targeted against, I'm not quite sure there IS one. I'm mostly positive that Cim traitors were given mez resistence so they couldn't be farmed as easily by fire/kins, but that affected most controllers, too.
Also, I don't think the Devs sat around thinking of a way to completely mitigate illusion. They just wanted a mob type that couldn't be controlled, period. They let the mobs be debuffed and knocked around (though i'm noticing the LTs don't seem to get knocked around as much as i remember on test), but that's it. They threw Controllers a bone and let us sleep/hold/immob/stun the Minions, but fear and confuse still don't work on them, which makes sense because they're brainwashed by an Incarnate-level Mother Mayhem.
And I agree that there are some conceptual bases for the effects in this mission . . . with the net effect of making it feel as though my favorite powerset combo has been singled out. Maybe not intentionally, but that's the effect.
As I have said all along, I have adapted . . . where other controllers don't have to.Quote:You can still lay down an AoE on minions. You can still slow down and snipe LTs. You can still debuff AVs and keep adds off the team's back during the final phase. Ill/rad isn't totally useless, but it's not King of this particular Hill with its normal playstyle. Adapt and prosper! -
Quote:The difference is that all tankers are in the same situation, since Defense/Resistance/Damage Mitigation is pretty useless. (Well, there are a few powers in Tanker Primaries here and there that have some use, like Ice Armor's Chilling Embrace, which includes a Slow.) Of Controllers, only Illusion has had its other forms of AoE control made ineffective -- all other controllers have something to work with.Originally Posted by Wyldhunt
I gotta disagree with you pretty strongly on this. You feel like your primary powerset has been invalidated, and you've been relegated to a less-effective Blaster. That is an accurate paraphrasing of your own words, and not taken out of context. Tankers are not in the exact same position as Scrappers and Brutes - both of the latter primarily do damage, whereas that is a secondary for Tankers. This means that Tankers are less-effective Scrappers, which is in the same realm as Illusion Controllers becoming less-effective Blasters.
There are times that missions are designed to make various powers ineffective . . . As mentioned above, Cimmeroans ignore most forms of control, which affects all controllers. The Toxic Damage in part of Apex hits certain armor sets hard -- but that affects a number of different powersets across several ATs. In this particular case, only Illusion is left without another form of workable AoE control (other than the long-recharge Hold) when all the other controllers have one.Quote:This statement of yours does let me know you feel this is OK to be done by AT, but not powerset - another viewpoint of yours I strongly disagree with. Even so, yes, I know of plenty of powersets which are bascially "invalid" because they significantly underperform other powersets in much of the content. Gravity control can be considered a contender for this.
Again I'll say sometimes we do need to allow other teammates with other abilities to fulfill their roles while we take more of a backseat - we'll have other chances to shine. That is as true for the Illusion powerset among Controller powersets as it is for Tankers among other ATs.
And I think folks are still misunderstanding the entire point . . . Yes, I agree that Illusion is great most of the time and often has advantages over other sets for certain situations. Yes, I agree that Illusionists need to adapt to the situation. I was pointing out that this particular encounter is set up to neutralize Illusion's powers while allowing other controllers to still be effective. Then I was expressing my opinion that it is a bit unfair compared to other controllers.
In part, I wanted folks running the BAF to realize that they should not expect Illusion Controllers to provide their usual level of controlling contribution to this phase of the Trial. I was on one Trial where the team leader sent my Illusion/Rad to one door expecting me to handle the spawns as they came out . . . and I just didn't have the tools. -
Quote:It is not the same . . . because ALL Tanks are in the exact same position as scrappers and brutes . . . since the escaping patients ignore aggro, you have to spend your time chasing down runners to do damage. But your secondary is Damage, and that is fully effective and, in fact, essential to a Tank's role in that part of the Trial.Originally Posted by Wyldhunt
I have to ask - would you agree with the following statements as well?
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Tankers therefore have to adapt to become somewhat less effective Scrappers instead of Tankers. I'm not used to Tankers being weakened in most of the game, so I thought it felt "unfair."
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Is it OK to disregard all powersets of an entire AT during one portion of one trial, and not OK to target one primary powerset of another AT during that same portion? Sometimes we do need to allow other teammates with other abilities to fulfill their roles while we take more of a backseat - we'll have other chances to shine.
Where this Trial is unique is that all other Controllers other than Illusion have powers beyond the single target and AoE holds that can control the minions. Only Illusion is unable to apply other control powers because Illusion's other control powers have been made invalid by the systems of the mission.
Are there any other places in the game where one particular powerset, but not an entire AT, has been made invalid? -
Quote:Uh -- it is a little bit wrong to lecture folks about reading comprehension when you didn't understand my initial post. I never said anything about it being marketed by CoH (or NC Soft). Go back and read what I said.Originally Posted by Durakken
Knowing and Understanding are very different things.
How many people talk about science, morality, politics, or philosophy without ever understanding what they are talking about but blather on about things like communism and fascism being bad things.
My first comment is more to the fact the OP was asking, "why is a book not being marketed by CoH?" which implies that the book in question is an official product and this implication and thought can be read from the rest of the post. I could be wrong, but the only two ways o understanding the OP is that he's asking "Why is an official CoH book not being marketed?" which means he doesn't understand what he is reading and his comprehension is lacking OR he is asking "Why is book that is made by people that were inspired by CoH not being marketed?" which shows a lack of understanding to basic business practices marketing and publishing to be kind about it.
Further more, being literate, while it implies you comprehend, it is not absolutely the case that you do. So, restated in our new vocabulary...
"I want to commend you for your literacy...
However, it is important that you comprehend the words you choose to read and speak >.>"
I never said anything about CoH or NC Soft marketing the book.Quote:Why wasn't this book announced on these forums? I'm quite surprised. I just started reading it. I'll try to post a picture sometime later.
It appears to be "inspired by" CoH and fully outside of the world of Paragon City, but still, I'm surprised we haven't seen something about it.
I did a quick search for the title and did not find any discussion of this book. The primary name on the cover is a well-known, well-respected author of Science Fiction and Fantasy who we know plays CoH and authored an AE arc. I look over the Forums fairly regularly, and never saw any mention of this book being published -- it wasn't mentioned in a recent thread about Super Hero fiction. We even had a thread about Troy Hickman's published comics, so I would have expected this book to be mentioned.
I was expressing surprise that I had not seen any mention of this book related to CoH being published -- usually anything CoH related gets mentioned on the forums somewhere, even if it is not officially sanctioned by NC Soft. I suspect that NC Soft authorized the limited use of their trademarked name on the cover of this book -- it can only be good publicity. However, I'm not sure such permission was needed -- the book is not trying to pass itself off as a "City of Heroes" book.
As for a "a lack of understanding to basic business practices marketing and publishing to be kind about it," (sic)I actually have some knowledge in this area. My wife is a working writer, and is an officer in the local chapter of a national writer's organization. We have had many discussions about the changing world of publishing and the problems writers have in marketing their works, all based upon presentations by published authors, publishers and agents. I probably know more about it than most people, especially since I have read several publishing contracts.
You might want to be a little bit more careful before you accuse someone of a "a lack of understanding to basic business practices marketing and publishing to be kind about it." Using a properly placed comma might be a good practice, too.
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Quote:Admittedly, that is one place where Choking Cloud could help. But rather than add in a power that needs 5-6 slots and a huge amount of endurance that isn't all that useful most of the time, I'd rather just complain and get a bunch of people riled up on the forums.Originally Posted by Mega_Jamie
Choking Cloud sir, Choking Cloud.
I know you've always said that its counterintuitive to Ill/Rad, but there you go, a use for it, even if it is a pretty fringe use... is respecing into it solely for the BAF a good idea? probably not. Does it cover the fact that most of this issue with no AoE control is an issue with illusion? no!
But still, its a asmall answer to your woes.
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Quote:It is not at all limited when you consider that Spectral Terror is perma out of the box. In low levels (and assuming I don't have perma-PA), I throw out PA to start. Then I pick an anchor or two for my debuffs. Then I take down a few foes, starting with minions first (to take advantage of Illusory damage). When PA is about to run out, then Spooky is cast to continue the control if needed. If any foe try to run, they are the first ones to get stopped with Blind or Deceive. Invisibility protects me from most "adds." Liberal use of Deceive and the Rad debuffs keep me from being the focus of much damage, and I have a heal for when I do take damage. Combine the damage buff from AM with the Resistance Debuff from EF, and you get damage that is probably pretty equivalent to the Resistance debuff from Freezing Rain. The ToHit Debuff is virtually the same as an AoE control power.Originally Posted by Indomitable
LM, I feel your pain, up to a point, since a number of my favorite characters are performing at less than their usual excellence in the trials. No doubt it will take a while to optimize tactics and builds.
That said, I've always been a little perplexed by the reputation of Illus/Rad. How in the heck do you even manage "normal" content with such a limited amount of crowd control?
It is simply learning to adjust to different tools available and understanding those tools. Ill/Storm is a lot of fun and very powerful. Storm adds a lot of nice tools. But Rad is very effective as well in a less chaotic way. . . the debuffs add a lot of protection and the buff to Recharge, Recovery and damage add a lot. And the self-heal and -Regen fill roles that Storm lacks.Quote:My main is Illus/Storm, and I find the extra knockdown/knockup/stun/slow absolutely essential. Rad toggles, while very useful, aren't much as crowd control goes; and an unreliable hold at melee range is just nuts on squishy! Lack of a self-heal really hurts Storm, but I'll take that hit for the indestructible pseudo-pets alone.