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Posts
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I have both a PB and WS at 50, so I'll try to be there.
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First, your link is broken and you did not include the Data Chunk, so nobody can pull up your build in Mid's. As a result, I can't comment on your various bonuses. I'm not really going to comment on the full build, but just the way certain powers are slotted:
Char: The primary purpose of this power is as a hold. Since you are */Kin, you really don't need to slot it heavily for Damage since Fulcrum Shift and Power Boost will handle that. Consider changing this to 4 Baz Gaze and an Acc/Dam Hami-O. You get more Recharge than the Decimation set, and you actually get some Hold slotting.
Fire Cages really does very little damage, so a Posi Blast set doesn't add much. If at all possible, get a Grav Anchor Chance for Hold proc here. That proc adds a bunch to the functionality of the power. If you can afford it, 5 Grav Anchor (leave out the pure Immob) and the Posi Blast proc is good slotting. If you are seeking S/L defense then most folks go with the Enfeebled Operation set.
Hot Feet: The problem with the Oblit set is very little EndRdx. It has great Melee Defense and some other bonuses, but the lack of EndRdx in this high-cost power is a problem. I usually use the Multi-Strike set or some kind of Frankenslotting. You need to get that endurance cost down.
Flashfire: Another place where the Posi-Blast set is not doing much good because the damage is so low. Use Absolute Amazement if you can afford it, or the Stupify set (minus the proc) with a Recharge in the 6th slot.
Increase Density: This is a really good place for a Steadfast -Knockback. If you are building for Defense, then you can also add a Steadfast +3% Defense here, too.
Cinders: This power has a 20% Accuracy penalty. I suggest you take the common Hold and common Recharge out and add in an Acc/Hold/Rech from any set -- Essence of Curae is cheap.
Fighting Pool: Unless you are building for high Defense, I don't feel that giving up 3 powers to the Fighting Pool for a small amount of Defense is worth it. At least Maneuvers can benefit the entire team. I like having Bonfire as a situational control power. Combat Jumping is nice for a Fire/Kin, since getting Immobed can kill you.
Fire Imps: Blood Mandate is nice for a Defensive build, but Expediant Reinforcement is better for a Recharge-focused build. 4 Expediant Reinforcement, and if you can afford it, the Dam/Rech and Chance for Build up from Soulbound.
Transference: Personally, I prefer the Efficacy Adaptor set in this power.
Fulcrum Shift: You should not need 2 EndRdx in FS. I generally slot it 2 Acc, 3 Rech but 2 Rech is OK.
Smoke: Smoke is autohit in PvE. It only ever needs Accuracy in PvP. -
IceFracture, one quick thing I saw was that you are going for Ranged Defense. Glue Arrow provides almost no benefit since you have Crushing Field. Why not trade out Glue Arrow for Fire Blast slotted with Thunderstrike? It is slightly more defense, a more useful power and Fireblast can light your Slick in case Fireball misses.
Even with the changes, I'm not convinced that Dimension Shift is worth taking. Consider taking Combat Jumping. -
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Let me throw in a little more guidance in a few areas. One thing: Purple isn't always best. It really depends on the goals of your build. In general, for example, the purple Pet set isn't that great -- if you are going for Defense you should consider Blood Mandate, and if you are going for Recharge then use Expediant Reinforcement. For many purple sets, the 6th bonus isn't very useful, so 5 slotting is enough.
With Kinetics as a secondary, you can skimp a bit on slotting for damage, as Fulcrum Shift (when you get it at 38) can make up for lower slotting.
Char: Your single target hold is a key power -- it is your main way to control bosses or foes who get missed by Flashfire. If you are going for Ranged Defense, the the Lockdown set is good. If going for Recharge, then 4 Baz Gaze are good, with some extra Acc and Dam or Hold. If you decide to go for S/L defense, then Baz Gaze is a better choice. You want Flashfire up as much as possible.
Transfusion: The only reason to use 6 Numina is if you are building for Ranged Defense, and you aren't. That Numina proc should be in Health. Numina has no Accuracy, which is needed in Transfusion. Consider using the Touch of the Nictus set . . . that's the purpose of the set. Use 5 of them as the 6th set bonus is not very good.
Fire Cages: The 6th Grav Anchor bonus isn't very good, so replace the pure Immob with a Posi Blast Chance for Energy Damage proc. If you are going for S/L Defense, you may want to go for a full set of Enfeebled Operation.
Siphon Power: Why are you using Hami-Os here? Only the Accuracy does anything. This power should be slotted only for Accuracy and Recharge. 1 Acc, 1 Rech or even just 1 Acc.
Hot Feet: Slotting for Hot Feet should be Damage, some Accuracy and lots of EndRdx. Granted, when you have Transference endurance is less of a problem, but Transference doesn't cure all problems. The Armageddon set is somewhat lacking in EndRdx, and the 6th slot doesn't provide much benefit. You could replace the pure Damage with an EndRdx. Also, you don't have to have a purple set here. There are lots of ways to slot Hot Feet. But if you have the Influence, the purple set is nice once you add some more EndRdx.
Siphon Speed: I'm not a fan of the Slow sets in general. The bonuses are pretty lame. If you were going for Ranged Defense, you could go for 6 Pace of the Turtle, but slotting the power really only needs Accuracy and Recharge. 2 Acc, 2-3 Recharge.
Flashfire: Here's another one where the 6th set bonus is not good. The proc in this purple set is skippable . . . if a foe is stunned, then what good is a ToHit Debuff?? Use that slot somewhere else, or add a Stupify Acc/Rech in the last slot.
Super Speed: Replace the Celerity Speed with a Celerity Stealth.
Maneuvers: This is an optional pick, mainly needed if you are really going for a Defensive build or maybe a team support build.
Super Jump: Why? Take Combat Jumping instead, and slot it with a Luck of the Gambler Recharge. If you need verticle travel, get a Raptor Pack (buy one for 10K in the Shadow Shard.) For your -knockback, I would take Increase Density and slot it with a Steadfast -Knockback. ID will unstun your Fire Imps and teammates, and several other things.
Speed Boost: The proc doesn't work the way you think. Just slot a common EndMod and that's it. That proc works better in Stamina as the third slot, but you really don't need it on a Fire/Kin.
Cinders: I think Cinders is a great power to have . . . you can use it when Flashfire is recharging, and you can stack holds on a boss with Cinders and then Char. 4 Baz Gaze are OK, but not the Lockdown proc. That proc is only useful against bosses, and only a few of those. Use an Acc/Hold/Rech from some other set like Essence of Curae (which is cheap).
Tactics: It needs to be slotted for EndRdx first, then some ToHit Buff . . . if you have it. With a Kinetics, Tactics is nice to have but not necessary.
Bonfire is a one-slot wonder. Just a single Recharge or a Damage is all it needs. It is a situational power that can be skipped, but I like it.
Boxing: 2 Hecatombs? Really? If you are going for S/L defense, then you can put 4 Kin Combat here. If you don't have a high Defense build, then skip the Fighting Pool. I generally don't use Boxing at all, so I leave it unslotted. If you really want to use it, try slotting a couple of Acc/Dam.
Fire Imps: Here, the purple set isn't that great. Want Recharge? 4 Expediant Reinforcement, the Dam/Rech and Chance for Build Up from your purple Soulbound set.
At 35, you should take Transference, not Fissure. Take Fulcrum Shift at 38. Transference can get 5 or 6 Efficacy Adapter. Fulcrum Shift gets 2 Acc, 3 Rech.
Fissure needs to be slotted up with 5 Posi Blast.
Seismic Smash gets 4 Kin Combat and an Acc/Dam Hami-O if you are going for S/L Defense.
Just to give you an idea, here is a build I made a while ago that is softcapped to S/L Defense. This one is a lot cheaper than yours.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.952
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Fire-Kin Softcap S-L: Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Fire Control
Secondary Power Set: Kinetics
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Stone Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Char -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(3), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(3), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(19), HO:Nucle(19)
Level 1: Transfusion -- Nictus-Heal(A), Nictus-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg(7), Nictus-Acc/Heal(7), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Heal/HP/Regen(23), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(23)
Level 2: Fire Cages -- Enf'dOp-Acc/Rchg(A), Enf'dOp-EndRdx/Immob(5), Enf'dOp-Acc/EndRdx(5), Enf'dOp-Immob/Rng(25), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob/Rchg(37), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob(40)
Level 4: Siphon Power -- Acc-I(A)
Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(27), RechRdx-I(27)
Level 8: Hot Feet -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(9), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(9), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(46)
Level 10: Siphon Speed -- Acc-I(A), RechRdx-I(17), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 12: Flashfire -- Stpfy-Acc/Rchg(A), Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun(13), Stpfy-Acc/EndRdx(13), Stpfy-Stun/Rng(15), Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(15), Rope-Acc/Rchg(17)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Clrty-Stlth(A)
Level 16: Increase Density -- S'fstPrt-ResKB(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(40)
Level 18: Burnout -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 20: Speed Boost -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 22: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(46), Ksmt-ToHit+(46)
Level 24: Cinders -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(25), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(34), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(34), EoCur-Acc/Hold/Rchg(43)
Level 26: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 28: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(29), RctvArm-ResDam(29), RctvArm-EndRdx(34)
Level 30: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31), LkGmblr-Def(31), LkGmblr-Rchg+(31)
Level 32: Fire Imps -- ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(33), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx(33), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(50)
Level 35: Transference -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(36), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(36), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg(36), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(37), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx(37)
Level 38: Fulcrum Shift -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(39), RechRdx-I(39), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 41: Fissure -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(42), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), Posi-Dam%(43), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 44: Rock Armor -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45), LkGmblr-Def(45), LkGmblr-Rchg+(45)
Level 47: Seismic Smash -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(48), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(48), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48), HO:Nucle(50)
Level 49: Bonfire -- Dmg-I(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(40)
Level 2: Stamina -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(21), EndMod-I(21)
Code:| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1497;689;1378;HEX;| |78DA6D935B4F134114C767B65BB150A4D02B97D20B6091D24AA38F26262228DA266| |8D557D2D4A56CD2ECD6ED92C893A2D17841052F5FC31735FA41BC7D0623177DF3C1| |D4D33DFFD2AA6CB2F9CDFC67CE65CE9929DC3CEB7D7D6EFDB490BED96AA95E5F9A3| |50DDB32AB55CD72174A15BD2CE80BCCEB9696B9A81BF1A2B96C974BB5783193EFA2| |85587B77CB30DBDCDB9A443AD6CFAC2E2F67C98766EBE57AFF82B1A2599A61675B8| |3EE45938C8B354DBBEE758679AD54D38D4AAF3399D72B2B36CD069CD915ADAAD54C| |CB2ED9BA690CCCD5F472B6689B86B65428D56DCD5A8B506A13F4DF93025F43151F1| |521A2AA503E835F98035FC153B44D1562AED3C6EF1222A78A430130C80C85C030F3| |3ED9B059C32D37A5A3A95BE07366E40573FC2533F58A394F7039D60DE11A128E96A| |4DABAD99FE24EB336F40F1F904997E4985D35D60EDF00EBCC6E1B5C65662CE679B2| |F34827A6E2414C1FFCC6C187B4DC8333F5DCE25CBDB7C175E6913BE05DA66F8D394| |6F9F7726EA2D7A338DA02CDFBD89FEC8B48A7E6A930530909D1CF6BA21FF12FD092| |1F9A3FCE5A88FC06D9AF120C70AC4C10FC2D1C5F8F681A46FFC2E879E4133381DE2| |7D0F3A90ADB4AF23B885883A8878BB4618EE51A1EA5414A15233130C94C8C3155DA| |1BC5DEA88F7D8EFA41E4398A3C370831E417DBE5DAC4F7C01FCCDC4FF01BE792279| |B247A91DCE0B5B127E053F019737C13DC621664F32D38BD764DE06C475B4CFFCDEF| |749D271167F20D6BC7DE82EFC0F7CCA90F206CB7C9368D1AA4518369D4601A35984| |60D7E7985C8A206D945425215C72F8197C122338777F9984C67D0A39928C71C51F7| |DFAA103853BE534BB0B6A8EEBF4F21916FB4BDAFE1F135DF208FB7BB692FEEAECCF| |0DE9D4E6D92B5DDB626E555BE07A96B7CBEBDF69A22D1AF00FA12C05D9E3920CFA9| |03B4DC01DAC94EAD419F38F19FF207408DCEDC| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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Let me give you a suggestion on posting builds using Mid's.
1. From Mid's main screen, click on the menu choice "Import/Export." Choose "Short Form Export."
2. On the left side, you have several "colour scheme" choices. You want one that can be read easily on the forums. My favorite is "Fruit Salad"
3. Just below the "Colour Scheme" is the "Data Chunk" section. Put Check marks in the first and third boxes.
4. On the right side in the "Formatting Code Type:" box, choose "Official Forums (vBulletin)"
5. Under that, put a check mark in "Don't Export Invention Levels" and leave the others blank.
6. Click the "Export Now" button and paste the build on the forum page.
That gives you an easy-to-read build that can be copied to Mid's in two different ways. Note that on the Forums if you go back and edit a post with a Mid's build in it, you will usually break the link but the Data Chunk will still work. That's why it should be included.
As for the build? I consider myself pretty knowledgable on Controllers in general, but not a top-tier Fire/Kin expert -- I have one but I'm not a farmer with it and mine isn't fully IO'ed out. (I like my Plant/Kin better and I tend to be more team focused.) If you look around on the Forums, you will see several Fire/Kin threads. There is also a guide under the guides.
However, I think this build needs some work. IO bulds work best if you focus on one or two attributes. If you are going to go for Defense, then go all out and plan to maximize your Defense. A small amount of Defense (under 20%) doesn't do all that much to help you, but as you get more and more Defense, the benefits grow. If you are going to rely upon your control to protect yourself instead of Defense, then go all out for Recharge.
You went for some Defense, but didn't go all out. The Fighting Pool is a waste unless you are going to go all out for Defense. Your Defense numbers should be at least in the 30's and preferably at or over 45%. Depending on how you want to play your character, most folks focus on either Smash/Lethal Defense (which is the most common damage type in the game) or Ranged Defense (since you have some control in melee, and most mez powers are ranged). You may need to read up on how Defense works (Typed vs. Positional). It is easier to softcap to S/L Defense since you can get one of three APP/PPP armors for S/L Defense.
You skipped Siphon Speed, which I consider to be an essential power for any Kinetics character. This is what gives you your Recharge buff while slowing a foe. Slotting a Kin for Recharge becomes less important when you use Siphon Speed a lot.
Personally, I like Increase Density as both a useful power and a set mule. It takes Resistance sets, making it a good place for Steadfast -Knockback and the +3 Defense IOs. I dislike Inertial Reduction because I hate having to re-cast. I prefer to use Super Speed (with a Celerity stealth IO -- no need to take the Stealth pool) and/or Fly (on some teams, I just fly overhead and buff the heck out of my team). If you don't want to take Fly (and you don't have to), you can just use a Raptor Pack to fly anytime you need to get over things.
If you get rid of stealth, consider taking Combat Jumping. It is a cheap toggle that gives you Immob protection (very useful for a Fire/Kin), some air maneuverability and a nice place to slot some nice IOs.
The Psi APP is mostly useful for the mez protection in Indomidible Will. If you are having a problem getting mezzed, then it certainly is worth considering. However, the majority of Fire/Kins go with the Earth APP. You get an ugly S/L Defense shield, a fast-recharging short-range AoE attack in Fissure, a powerful melee attack that also has a hold in Seismic Smash, and a heal/HP boost in Earth's Embrace. If you slot heavily for S/L defense, your Defense will deflect many mez attacks. Ranged Defense is even better at deflecting mez attacks.
One other option to deal with mez, at least in incarnate levels, is to go for the Clarion power under Destiny. It is very good.
There is a lot more I could go into, but I'll leave that for some of the Fire/Kin experts. -
I have a Warshade and a Peacebringer at 50, as well as several at lower levels. I prefer Tri-forming and I prefer Warshades . . . but I am a Controller at heart.
The PB relies less on form shifting and is far more scrapper-ish. I find I spend a lot more time in Human form on my PB than on my WS. I think it is pretty clear that a PB will probably fit your request better than a WS.
I would suggest that you make sure you take Hasten on either one. You may want to consider keeping the Dwarf form, at least leveling up, for getting out of mez. Later if you have a build with lots of defense, you may not need Dwarf form as much. -
Looking at this build, you have made several sacrifices that I would not be willing to make:
Entangle: You took Entangle and skipped Strangler. I would never, ever skip the single target hold. I would never leave that power unslotted. A single target hold is essential for any controller, and Plant in particular is lacking in single target control and damage.
Stealth: I'm not a fan of using Stealth for a defensive build since half of the defense suppresses (which is not shown in Mid's). You already have Super Speed + Stealth IO for full invisibility, so Stealth serves no use. Consider changing it to Combat Jumping. That gives you Immob protection and maneuverability where Stealth is worthless. CJ also uses almost no endurance.
Your overall endurance usage for the build is a problem. You won't be able to run all those toggles and actually do anything. Yes, you do have Transference, but you will still burn through your blue bar too fast. Powers like Tough, Tactics and Maneuvers don't have enough EndRdx. You could move the slotting in Stealth/CJ to Maneuvers to make that a little better, but that probably won't be enough. I assume you probably were planning on not running Tough or Tactics.
There are a few spots where you could steal a slot: Seeds really doesn't need the 6th slot unless you are slotting for Ranged Defense. Same with the Expediant Reinforcement set in Tarantula. The Force Feedback proc could be sacrificed. The single target hold needs some slots.
Of course, you know that this build will be very, very expensive. -
Quote:I see a couple of problems with this post:I use Superior Core Spiritual Alpha and Cognitive Core Flawless Interface.
The former since it now reduces the recharge time on pet attacks, which means that not only are you increasing their DPS, but procs fire more often in their attacks (such as the Build-Up unique in PA), as well as a more comfortable buffer on PA/AM activations.
The latter since the XP-reduction due to Confusion doesn't matter at Incarnate level, and it makes dropping PA or Spectral Terror into a spawn reduce their effectiveness drastically, as well as having the second-least Resistible secondary damage type.
On that note, I also slotted Spectral Terror with five Glimpse of the Abyss and the new ATE proc, so it's a decent AoE attack on it's own, especially with the Cognitive bonus and increased fire rate of it's single-target Terrorize attack due to the Alpha. It's very effective! :-)
(a) Pets do not receive a Recharge boost from Spiritual or Global Recharge or even Recharge slotted in the power itself. The Recharge will help the pet casting power come up more quickly, but has no effect on the pet's attack cycle. This was a change made quite a while ago.
(b) If you know what you are doing, there is no loss of XP from Confuse powers at any stage in the game. While the damage done by a confuse foe may slightly reduce the amount of AVAILABLE XP per foe, there are always more foes. You can't "lose XP" once you have earned it. Confuse powers actually let you get some XP that you haven't earned by your direct (or your pet's direct) damage. If you know what you are doing, confuse powers result in more XP over time.
Sorry, but I thought something needed to be said. -
Quote:Slotting Arctic Air is a bit tricky, and it isn't very easy to see the effects going on in the background. With an Ice/Storm, you have three Slow powers and really only need two. Stick with Arctic Air, and then choose between Snow Storm or Shiver.I have a Ice/Storm with Arctic Air. I'm trying to decide if i need slow and/or confusion enhancements in the power. The description of the 'slow' enhancement says it improves the slow duration. But when i slot it, in the power description, it seems to make the mob's move slower, and says nothing about slow duration. So... does it mean it increases the slow duration once they mob is outside my arctic air, or make them move slower? I'm at a loss...
Also, i slotted a confusion enhancement, and it didn't seem to change ANYTHING in the power description. I six slotted the power, (3 for endurance) maybe i overdid it if slow and/or confuse enhancements don't really help. Any thoughts? Thanks.
Arctic Air has a -81.25% run speed. Slow Enhancements only affect Run Speed and not the Recharge Debuff, which can't be enhanced. The game has a cap of -90% Run Speed for even con foes, so I found that there is almost no benefit to slotting Slow in Arctic Air -- even though higher level foes resist some of the slow, if I need more slow I just use Snow Storm. Foes who resist Slow pretty much ignore it.
Instead, slot up Arctic Air with EndRdx and Confuse. The confuse doesn't look like it is doing much, but it is. AA has a 30% chance of a mag 3 confuse pulse lasting 3.725 seconds at level 50 (shorter in lower levels). Those pulses happen every 2 seconds. So one pulse, if it hits, will only have a 30% chance to continue the confuse when the next pulse hits. However, if you fully slot Confuse (3 SOs or 96%), the duration lasts over 7 seconds, or through 3 pulses. This substantially increases your chance to continue the confuse by applying that 30% chance three times.
At level 50, plan on spending the influence to get the purple Contagious Confusion proc. It has a much longer duration and improves the effectiveness of Arctic Air substantially. The proc will also allow you to stack the Confuse Mag, so that you have a chance to confuse bosses.
In comparison, the Slow from Arctic Air lasts 2.5 seconds, so any foe who goes out of AA will only stay slowed for 2.5 seconds after after the last pulse if it leaves the area of effect.
All of these numbers can be found at the excellent City of Data site maintained by the wonderful folks at the Titan Network. -
Quote:I would say that it is definitely more useful than Black Hole. Time Bomb pretty much requires invisibility to make it useful, but if you have that invisibility, you can run into the middle of a group, set up TB and back out before any foes knew you were there. Any foes left alive will then come after you, where they can be led into a trap.Q:
A: Hm... how can we make a power even more useless than Black Hole but leave just enough rare edge cases where it might potentially have a minor use despite another power in the same set always working better so that a few people will say that it's "not that bad"?
That's probably what they were thinking. Because anything else would indicate a disconnect with reality.
Any power that does any reasonable amount of damage is probably more useful than Black Hole. That doesn't stop Time Bomb from sucking, but at least it is better than Black Hole.
Personally, I like the challenge of finding a valid use for a power that everyone hates. I was able to do that with Time Bomb. I couldn't with Black Hole. -
Quote:Especially if {puts on Villain hat} we told them to use all those most expensive IOs in mostly worthless powers making it a totally gimped build.Not to disagree with anything Local Man just said, it still be fun to make a crazy cost fire/kin just for folks who say "cost is not a issue".
It would be kindly interesting (at least to me) how costly the build would end-up with a mix of purples, pvps, and hami IOs. Not that I would ever spend 10 billion on any of my builds, since I don't have a 'main' character to lavish on. -
The problem is that there are a wide range of playstyles. I generally suggest that rather than getting an "end game" build like the one above, you get some general guidelines and suggestions, and then discover your preferred playstyle.
For example, Nemu says above that he doesn't use Ice Slick very often any more, but uses Frostbite a lot (which he has set up with three damage procs). That's a valid playstyle, but I do things differently. I still use Ice Slick a lot at level 50, and I only use Frostbyte when I need its -Knockback for Tornado. Because Frostbite conflicts with Ice Slick, I didn't take it until level 30.
You need to decide if you want to play at melee or range. Arctic Air is for melee, Shiver is for range. Ice/Storm has three AoE Slow powers . . . you only need two, but some people like to take all three.
Some people play an Ice/Storm as a team control/support character, while others aim towards damage or even solo. This affects your build.
I would say that the important powers in Ice leveling up are: Block of Ice, Arctic Air (or Shiver), Ice Slick, Glacier and Jack Frost. Optional powers: Chilblain can be used as a single target damage power, especially if you want to solo. Frostbite conflicts with Ice Slick, but can have its uses -- mostly the -Knockback can be used to turn Tornado into a decent damage pet. Flash Freeze (a ranged sleep) can be useful solo, but is mostly useless on fast moving teams.
From Storm: Steamy Mist, Freezing Rain (Essential!), Hurricane, Tornado and Lightning Cloud are all pretty important, but you have to learn how to use them to make them most effective. Gale is forced upon you, and is the least useful power in the set. Snow Storm and O2 Boost are both skippable but have their uses -- Snow Storm makes a good 2nd Slow with Arctic Air, and it knocks down fliers. O2 Boost can heal Jack Frost and provides a weak heal, a stun remover and End Drain reduction for teammates. Personally I found Thunderclap (PB AoE Stun that is only Mag 2 -- minions only) to be skippable since Ice/Storm doesn't have a second stun power. Some folks may like it to supplement Arctic Air.
As for an Epic choice, if you find that you are getting mezzed a lot, you may want to go with the Psi APP's Indomidible Will. Psi Blast, Psi Tornado and Mind Over Body (s/l/psi resist armor) are all decent, but World of Confusion sucks.
If mezz isn't that big a problem, then it really depends on your playstyle and what you want out of the epic set. Ice/Storm doesn't have a self-heal or an endurance recovery power, so Ice APP's Hibernate can cover both and be a good "time out" power with only one slot. Ice has a good single target blast, two AoE damage powers and a good S/L Defense shield.
Fire is mostly about damage, but it has the only self-rez available to Controllers and it has a slow-recharging endurance Recovery power. Earth is good if you stay in melee, as Fissure is a very short range, fast Recharging AoE damage power, Seismic Smash is a great melee attack with a Hold, a self-heal with HP boost and an ugly S/L Defense armor. I'm not a big fan of Primal, since Ice/Storm doesn't have all that much that benefits from Power Boost, the best power in the set. As for the PPP sets, Mace seems to be the most popular for folks trying for Defense, since it has a good S/L/E Defense armor. The pet is pretty nice, and the mace attacks are OK but a little slow on the Recharge.
My playstyle is generally on teams: I let the tank run in to grab initial aggro, then I lay down an Ice Slick, run in with Arctic Air running and help control any foes not slipping and sliding around. This mitigates about 60-75% of the damage taken by melee teammates. I build my Ice/Storm to contribute some damage, so I have Air Superiority and Chilblain for single target damage powers. Add Freezing Rain and Lightning Storm for more good damage and debuffing.
Play the character for a while before deciding on an end-game build. Some people like to build for Recharge. Some people like to build for Defense, which could be Ranged or S/L. You need to find out if you have Endurance issues (which is why I chose Cardiac for my Alpha slot). It may be that you don't want to invest as much in this character as others, but still find it fun to play. Or you may want to IO this character out. -
Ice Melee on a Brute? Ice Armor on a Brute? I don't think so . . . a key part of Ice is the way it slows down the foes. And much of the damage from Ice Melee is DoT. That just won't work on a Brute, as it would contrast with Fury. I don't really see it very useful on a scrapper, either . . . maybe Ice Armor, but not Ice Melee in anything close to its current form.
On the other hand, I really like my Ice/Ice Tank. -
Quote:Fully agree. I have a DP/Dev blaster, and I had fun trying to come up with strategies to use Time Bomb and Trip Mines while playing solo. It took forever to set up the "boom zone" where I would usually set up a bunch of Trip Mines, then stealth over to set a Time Bomb, then set up some more Trip Mines and a Caltrops. Time Bomb explodes, aggroing any foes who survive to chase after me . . . right into the field of Trip Mines.I have to disagree with all the time bomb haters as I do find it "useful" while solo.
My Arch/Dev/Munitions is the only blaster I ever solo'd that hit 50 without getting the first debt badge. The trade off was of course that it took 5-10 times longer to hit 50 even with repaying debt for the other blasters figured in.
My Arch/Dev will drop a trip mine, stealth to the center of a spawn, set up time bomb, walk back to near where the first trip mine is, set up another trip mine, drop caltrops on the mines, Aim, Rain of Arrows. Doing it like that makes rain of arrows hit at the same time that Time Bomb goes off leaving only a lieutenant or 2 with a shred of health and an almost dead boss or 2 (depending on difficulty settings) to finish off with single target attacks and the caltrop/mine nest. Safe and easy mode.
I have before "one shotted" an end mission Elite Boss that had no KB protection by setting up a stack of 20ish trip mines, stealthing behind it and setting up time bomb, and waiting for it to go off. The time bomb's kb tossed the EB onto the stack of trip mines and the huge explosion left a tiny tick of health on the EB. A single snap shot finished the EB off.
So there are uses for it. The set just requires a different and solo based play style.
All that said, I would not complain at all if the devs buffed time bomb (or the rest of the power set) to make it more team friendly while still maintaining it's solo "flavor".
So I like time bomb. Would I accept an improvement to time bomb?
In a heart beat.
Time Bomb isn't useless . . . it is extremely situational. It could use some improvements to make it more useful and less situational. -
Quote:No offense intended, but we used to get these kind of requests all the time -- they aren't quite as frequent any more but it is not surprising that you haven't had responses. Many of us "snobby controller elitists" feel that folks should learn how to play a controller first before getting an end-game, "price is no object" "make me a build."I have no clue how to build for a fire/kin because this is my first troller. Someone please help
I am looking to farm BM/Demon farms for purple drops, if anyone has a build that PWNS these farms, help me out. Price isnt ever an issue for me.
Thanks in advance
[Soapbox] Controllers are a different type of character than the rest of the game, more varied in powersets and playstyles. And in spite of this, too many people end up power-leveling a Fire/Kin just so they can farm. That somewhat frustrates some of us "old-timers."
It is also a little frustrating when someone who hasn't put much work into his PL'ed Fire/Kin comes on the forums and requests the old regulars to make him or her a build with "Infl is no object" when that person has no idea what is good or bad. Most of us spent many hours learning the information and then you are asking us to spend our time to make you a build when you haven't spent the time and effort to even attempt it for yourself.
Plus, if you do a very small amount of research on the forums, like look back a few pages, you will find lots and lots of discussions on Fire/Kins. Like this one. [end soapbox] -
Try a Dark/Fire Corrupter. Tar Patch+Rain of Fire is pretty wonderful. And a team of Dark/Fire Corrupters is similar to a team of Fire/Rad Controllers -- everything melts in seconds.
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Until Time Manipulation, Radiation was the only secondary that provided a Recharge buff to help PA recharge faster, plus a Resistance Debuff and a Defense Debuff to help PA hit harder and more often. Now Time offers those too.
As Erhnam indicated, Rad has a higher -Regen. Ling Rad has a huge -500% Regen, which still has a big effect after the AV Resistance is applied. Plus Rad has EM Pulse for an extra 1000% -Regen once in a while. Time only offers 100% -Regen in Time Crawl plus -50% -Regen in Time Stop. Plus, these are two single target control/debuff powers that where the -Regen only lasts 20 seconds and will have to be continually re-applied to take down the AV, while Rad's Ling Rad is a single click power with an AoE slow and -Regen that lasts 30 seconds.
Another small advantage of Rad is that the other two main debuffs, Enervating Field and Radiation Infection, are Anchor Toggle AoE powers -- just set 'em and forget 'em. Time's debuffs have to be continually re-applied, and Time Crawl is needed to boost the debuffs. This will mean that you have to interrupt your attacks more often to re-apply the debuffs. Also, Rad gets AM very early in the build, while you have to wait until level 38 for Chronoshift's +Recharge. (Since Rad's level 35 power is skippable, you can take the single target blast earlier, too.)
One big advantage of Time is that you get an AoE Defense power, which is lacking in Rad. So if you want to build for some Defense after you get enough Recharge, you have that option. This is why I went with the Ice APP on my Ill/Time, since Ice has a s/l Defensive Shield. Ice still has a fast single target blast power that works great for a Blind-SW-Blast-SW attack chain. (See my Illusion/Rad guide, linked in my sig, for an explanation of why this makes a huge difference in your ability to do damage.)
I also agree that Rad is the best all-purpose secondary, but Cold is probably better as an AV Killer/single target debuffer. Since Cold lacks a Recharge buff, it a lot more expensive to get perma-PA -- you have to find an extra 30% Recharge from sets, usually purple sets. Cold also lacks a self-heal, which can be a problem. But for these issues, Illusion/Cold is an excellent character.
The bottom line: Yes, Illusion/Time is a great combo. If you want the best AV killer, that is probably Illusion/Cold after a large investment. If you want a better AV killer with more AoE debuffing, the Ill/Rad is better. But Ill/Time provides a number of benefits not in Ill/Rad or Ill/Cold, and is a fun character to play. -
Yeah, Electric Blast kind of stinks for Defenders. But I pull out my Dark/Elec Defender anyway . . . because he is the original Local Man. And I can't really explain why I also made a Kin/Elec defender . . . well, I was trying to make a sapper. But Dark Miasma is a great set for a MM and for a corrupter. Fearsome Stare was too good for a Controller secondary, so I understand why it was removed. (In fact, for years when folks speculated on */Dark Controllers, I always suggested that Fearsome Stare would be a problem. Stacking Fearsome Stare with Terrify or Spectral Terror would be too much.)
I'm planning on doing a Dark/Dark, just to get both sets in one shot. I can see where Dark/Storm will be good -- but after having Ice/Storm, Ill/Storm, Grav/Storm and Earth/Storm, plus a Mind/Storm and a second Earth/Storm in the 40's, I think it is time to focus on a different secondary.
Dark/Poison? I can't stand the idea of rolling up a */Poison Controller after playing my Demons/Poison MM to 40 . . . I really dislike the secondary. I know it has some improvements for Controllers, but I don't see enough to make me go through that again. -
Quote:Reactive is so good that it is hard to take anything else. You already have -Regen in Lingering Rad and EM Pulse, and that's probably enough. If you are using the fast attack chain of Blind-SW-Fire or Ice Blast-SW, then Reactive will have lots and lots of chances to hit.So I took the Cardiac alpha and Degenerative interface proc on my Ill/Rad that I want to set up as an AV/GM hunter. I was looking at Paragon Wiki and it tells me that the Degenerative proc only does -150 Max HP to AVs and above. Not really worth it I'm thinking.
Should I just go ahead and take the usual Reactive or would something like Diagmetric (-regen) be better?
Cardiac is a good Alpha choice if you are having endurance issues. I went with Spiritual for the reasons explained in my Ill/Rad guide, but those reasons weren't all that strong -- once you have perma-PA, then more Recharge only helps a little bit. And I made that choice before the new options came available. The new Agility is worth considering if you have sought Defense in your build. Musculature and Intuition also have some appeal, depending upon your build goals and the status of your build. -
Quote:In my experience/opinion, Electric Control is one set where high recharge really isn't needed all that much. Most of the controls recharge quickly enough to be used on every group. Hasten and a few bonuses are enough.Thanks Local_Man, grat advice as always. I completely missed the fact that Synaptic Overload didn't draw aggro.
Baz Gaze proc was a "typo"
The reason I slotted Chain Fences for damage was to get the +rchg bonus from Posi Blast.
I do like Jolting Chain at low levels and I tend to forget to use Temporal Selection, so I may swap them. I don't have time Stop yet but it's a hold with -regen, and it lets me slot a Baz set for another 7.5% recharge
I'm currently playing with the idea of not taking Time Stop either and taking Stealth as a last LoTG Mule to free up some slots, or go with no travel power (ninja run) and use stealth there.
Maybe I'm overdoing it with the rechg and having Chronoshift a few seconds short of perma would not be a huge deal.
I'm probably not going to purple this toon, especially since I expect the sleep/confuse purple sets to go up, I have too many alts and can't invest in all of them.
Static Field is easily perma. Chain Fences and Jolting Chain recharge quickly, of course. Even Synaptic Overload recharges quickly enough to be available for every group.
Because of this, I feel it is a set just asking for Frankenslotting. So many of the powers will take EndMod in addition to the usual slotting that you can boost the overall endurance drain. Put some EndMod in everything, and the blue bars drop pretty fast. And the faster you can drain endurance, the less you need Defense.
And I agree that I would rather have Time Stop and skip Temporal Selection to fit in Jolting Chain. -
There are several suggestions I have for your build, but I don't have time to go into them now. But I'll touch on a few problem areas.
Synaptic Overload: This is a no-aggro Confuse power that chains. Putting damage procs in it will destroy the no aggro aspect -- that's a bad thing. Get rid of those damage procs. If you can, put the purple Contagious Confusion proc, along with 4 more of the purple Coercive Persuasion set.
Conductive Aura needs more EndMod if you expect to drain foes in a reasonable time.
Chain Fences does pitiful damage. You will get more damage from Damage procs than slotting the power for Damage.
Tesla Cage: The Baz Gaze proc is pretty worthless. Use an Acc/Rech or Rech/Hold instead.
Personally, I would take Jolting Chain over Time Stop or Temporal Selection. More AoE control is good, and JC will often knock down bosses. The Devastation Chance for Hold is nice in Jolting Chain. -
I think of Static Field as kind of a stationary Choking Cloud . . . it is a pulsing Sleep power that has a chance to stack an extra Mag. Pretty much, it lasts as long as the power lasts on the ground. Slotting it up for Sleep will make it more likely to hit tough targets, but really won't affect the duration.
I believe it has a 4 second pulse time. The Mag 3 sleep lasts for over 6 seconds, depending upon how you have it slotted. The extra Mag 1 is a little over 4 seconds, but only has a 5% chance to hit and hold a boss. Slotting it for Sleep extends the duration of the sleep to last through more pulses. So even if a pulse misses, the foe will stay asleep for longer. If you ED cap for Sleep, the sleep will last for 12 seconds, or through 3 pulses. To me, slotting it for Acc and Rech is most important in low levels, but there is some benefit for slotting Sleep if you solo a lot. (My Electric Controller is Elec/Rad, so I get to stack Static Field, Choking Cloud and Conductive Aura.)
I consider Static Field to be a cornerstone power of the Electric Control set. It is the alpha strike power that works most of the time. Synaptic Overload takes too long to chain to all of the foes most of the time on teams. -
Looking at the original build, I agree with Ketch's comments that I would use the Doctored Wounds set in O2 Boost and drop Spirit Tree . . . Hibernate takes care of your emergency healing needs. I find that I don't use Spirit Tree all that often. I also agree that you need to finish out the Posi Blast sets. You could probably pull the Recharge out of Fly Trap for one extra slot in Frost Breath. In Ice Storm, using the Dam/End or Dam/Range in place of the Impeded Swiftness proc results in more damage.
I would never consider dropping Hurricane. It is a great positioning tool as well as a huge ToHit Debuff. (It also makes melee defense unnecessary.) Learning to Herdicane and learning how to use the "Debuff kiss" makes the power far more useful. (The debuff extends out farther than the Repel, so it is possible to use the debuff without pushing foes all over the place.)
Speaking of Hibernate, I would slot it with a Recharge instead of a Heal. Hibernate has three uses: Regen, Recovery and Panic-button-time-out power. I really like it on */Storm controllers.
If you are not going for Ranged Defense, there really is no need to use that 6th slot in Seeds. I would drop either the Conf/End or the pure Confuse. Your duration drops from 76 sec to 74 or 72, which shouldn't make much of a difference. Put that slot in Stamina for a common EndMod -- that will increase your Recovery from 35% to 45%.
In Health, the Regen Tissue proc should be dropped for a Numina Heal. With the boost in Health and the Regen bonus from Numina, you actually get more Regen.
There are various things you could add if you drop Spirit Tree. If you decide to replace Spirit Tree with Recall Friend, you can slot a Zephyr -Knockback in Recall Friend, which lets you keep EndRdx in Super Speed. I like EndRdx in Super Speed, as it lets me keep the power on most of the time.
I agree that Thunderclap on its own is pretty unimpressive. Plant, due to the cone for Seeds, is a short range controller where the best position is near the edge of groups. Thunderclap is only Mag 2 (minions only) and it is PB AoE. I like it for my Earth/Storm and Grav/Storm since they have other Stun powers to stack with Thunderclap. However, I can understand keeping it as a set holder, and can be useful to take out minions while you focus on the tougher foes. -
My experience with Electric Control has been with an Elec/Rad Controller and an Elec/Earth Dom. Electric works quite well as a dominator set because it has pretty good "shut-down" control. I find Electric Control to be an interesting set because you have so much going on: Sleep, Confuse, Knockdown, Endurance Drain, Immob and the usual holds.
Static Field is the key power, especially in lower levels. The pulsing Sleep Patch provides every-group AoE control. It is the alpha control power that rarely results in a responsive attack. It recharges fairly quickly, but you want to slot it with Recharge first.
Conductive Aura alone takes a while to drain foes. But once you have Static Field out, you can then run in and slowly drain the foes' endurance with CA.
Chain Fences is a somewhat unusual AoE Immob: it does not have -Knockback (so it does not interfere with Jolting Chain), and it is up-front damage instead of DoT (since DoT would disrupt the sleep from Static Field).
As a result, I found that my standard opening control sequence was Static Field, Chain Fences from range, run in to melee with Conductive Aura running to drain endurance, pick any problem foes to Tesla Cage and use any single target attacks, renew Static Field and Chain Fences as needed. At 26, you get Synaptic Overload, but it's chaining mechanic makes it somewhat unreliable. Since it draws no aggro, try SynO if it is up, then go back to the Static Field+Chain Fences+Conductive Aura combo. The biggest problem with SynO is that it takes so long to chain the confuse. I find that if I wait for the fight to begin, SynO is pretty useless. If I want to use the power, I really have to run ahead of the team and fire it off before anyone else gets there.
Of course, with Time you also get Time's Juncture to debuff ToHit while you drain endurance. And you can use Distortion Field as another AoE debuff/Control power or as a patch-barrier (kind of like how Quicksand can be used).
There is some debate about Jolting Chain. I like it as a short-term control power, and I threw a Devastation Chance for Hold in it which goes off fairly often. I mostly use it to disrupt an ambush or to juggle that group over there while this group here is asleep on Static Field. As long as you aim for a lower level foe, it can knockdown bosses. If you miss the first target, the entire power misses, but if you hit the first target, it chains to everything in reach.
You didn't really say if you are going to try to solo this character or play only on teams. Solo will be horribly slow until you can slot up the pets, and then it will be pretty slow instead of horribly slow. The Gremlins will be the majority of your damage unless you proc the heck out of everything.
On teams, Electric Control does great . . . unless you have a teammate with a lot of AoE DoT powers. The AoE DoT powers neuter Static Field. And a teammate with AoE -Knockback will neuter Jolting Chain. I HATE teaming with Fire Controllers and Doms, because Fire Cages neuters much of my control. Other controllers who use AoE Immobs with DoT are equally as annoying.
As far as Slotting -- I find Elec Control only needs a moderate amount of Recharge. The powers come back pretty quickly, and it is easy to have Static Field be perma. Since Elec/Time will have Chrono Shift at 38, you probably won't need to build for Recharge, or at least not much. I actually haven't decided on a "final" build for my Elec/Rad, as he currently has a lot of frankenslotting. You could go with a high defense build. I went with the Psi APP for Indomidible Will, to prevent mez powers from knocking off my toggles. Since Time has Farsight, I think it will probably be tempting to go for Defense.