Leo_G

Right. Well I can't say I much care for that myself. Not saying I'm against adding such things or that they'd be boring for me, just answering the question in the title. 'Traversal' missions? Meh...I'd play them. Can't say I'd want them or that it'd matter more than what we've got.

I, personally, like map interaction too but more in a personal/intimate sense. That is, I like exploring around and finding things that aren't essential and can be skipped but if you are (or more likely, your character) is perceptive/knowledgeable/lucky enough to find these things, it will enrich your character or the story in certain ways.

Like, for example, the AE arc I made (lol I don't think anyone's played it yet since I made it way back when AE was introduced...probably broken now), you can go through the missions, fight the boss, fight the other boss, kill the clones, break the seal and turn the tables on the little brat...but you can also search for clues which will fill in non-essential information but can progress the story sideways along with forward.

But that's just an example. If it also affected other things like spawn points, mission text and the end-content souvenir, that'd make adding not so much incentive, but reason to explore (or not) every nook and cranny of a map...but the devs would need to actually *use* those nooks and crannies, not just the typical 'object spawn point A,B,C,X and Y'...

But that's only my personal want. Not everyone desires or even cares what I may seek extra out of the game and I can respect that. But funny that, I actually don't mind repeated uses of a map *IF* it is intentional and shows progression/change. Going into an office map on one mission where it's filled with Automatons that you smash then return to the same map several missions later but now the real human office staff is running around for their lives when a Nemesis invasion is going down makes me feel like things are happening vs city/globe hopping from place to place with little rhyme or reason.

Fine!...

Jerkhole...



Alright, that doesn't sound so bad...again, not amazing but then it's not my cup of tea. And along the way, things could happen, assaults on your team that put the mcguffin in danger, cause reactions in it that *show* you how important this mission is, checkpoints where you're speaking with contacts about why one location isn't suitable and what not. Basically enforcing the 'why' of what you're doing.

Meh, it can work.

Is it wrong that I find this funny? You don't think the title is a spoiler and yet it indeed spoiled you learning a crucial piece of information about that zone? Should we toss in anymore tidbits about the zone or who is being imprisoned there and their backstory?

I really was intrigued by some of the backstory told about the Shadow Shard, so much so that I even used it as a link to alternate universes *I* created. However, when I actually played *in* the Shadow Shard....meh, I like hearing about the place, not being in it >_>

Lol I just find it hilarious that when it comes to one AT? Oh, people can say it has to be like this and that and you can't break soandso theme because they are like *THIIIIIS!* But when it comes to their favorite AT? No question is raised for any possible changes.

I mean, what kind of sense does a Katana Brute make? OR a dual blades Brute? Not a word.

"We want ice melee/armor Brutes! It can work with new fury now!!"

Yeah? So? Ice armor/melee doesn't make conceptual sense on a Brute.

"I want ninjutsu Scrappers!"

Are you high!?

Yeah, I can hear the backlash from what I post already, concepts of why suchandsuch set does fit those ATs...but when others come and argue about TW Stalkers, this is somehow completely different.

That's called hypocrisy, kids! It's not a good thing.

I'd probably need some examples. The mentioned existing missions don't seem so much 'exploration' as it is 'big map with same-y stuff in it'. And when I say stuff, it's mainly referring to the way mission spawning works.

You tell that to some of the other more annoying repeatable missions, like that Lady Winter mission where you got objectives surrounded by snowmen you gotta destroy. Especially on speed-run farms that don't bother killing the spawn, I helped by just flying around and sniping the objectives and saving my inspirations for the fight.

I can already tell you're speaking from the limited viewpoint of a soft-capped IO'ed character and not the general purpose character. Even on the character I use the snipe with who is IO'ed, and has just soft capped def to ranged/energy/neg energy and a moderate amount to smashing/lethal, I find the ability to *not* need to run into melee as the only viable solution to every plan of attack as very useful. If you do not care being limited that's your business, but range is where the appeal of the attack is.

Well I never said I was happy with the snipes, just that they can be used to your advantage. I'd love the snipes to be refitted to the same activation as normal snipes (at least) and their damage set to the same as well. Heck, I'd even advocated for various changes like Assassin's Focus affect snipes in some way as well.

Mace Beam and Zapp too, although Mace Beam is a particular favorite of mine on my Spines/DA stalker. I tend to start out a fight on the hard target, blast the **** off his feet and get the attention of his group who then run toward my location. By the time the boss gets back up to join his team, they're dead or decimated and easy pickings after that. I also just like to drop random minions with it from long range (same with Impale crit).

Oh, and for style as a finisher, Impale > Mace Blast to knock the foe away. As they get up, I'm aiming my snipe at their head but they can't move (immobilized). Eventually they switch to range and throw something at me but it's too late (and I got ranged defense!) BOOM! HEADSHOT! just as their shot flies at me and misses.

Uh, then don't use BU with it. Pop a bunch of red candy instead. The idea of the power is, you can assault the critical points of a foe from extreme range. The range is the whole appeal since you can destroy objectives without even being near them (objects and explodables) or picking off targets from afar and move away to rehide.

And don't even bother b****ing about "Stalkers aren't hit-and-run". The principal is a Stalker doesn't *have* to hit-and-run not that they can't or shouldn't have the option to. Tools that are compatible with varying tactics aren't a terrible thing even if you're only concerned about min/maxing potential. You have close range powers for when you can go into close range and you have distance powers for when you'd rather not (or wish to exploit another tactic or a tactic of an ally).

Oh! The AoE in Stun was an old suggestion I made too

I figure, make the set particularly good at control and that can be it's specialty. Probably boost the chance of its stuns a bit above some other sets with a slight reduction in Stun's recharge + adding it as an AoE and you're golden. The set would be a monster at hard control, setting one up as a 'Scraptroller' set and still dishing out hard lesser resisted damage.

Since I don't quite advocate buffing Whirling Hands to fix the set (since Stalkers don't even get that power), perhaps something 'new' that'd work within the set's theme and make it unique among melee sets?

Just tossing out an idea:

Energy Melee Attack 'modes': Set would have varying effects depending on what mode you're in and you enter those modes with the tier 8 and 9 attacks.

-Energy Transfer evokes a kind of intensity or radiant flow that harms even the user. So maybe to help out those AoEers, landing an ET will provide a 10sec buff after the attack occurs that adds a 'Disintegrate' chance to all your attacks (except Assassin's Strike) at the cost of lowering the chance of stun on the attacks.

-Total Focus sounds like a concentrated burst that you focus on a target. So maybe using TF will heightened the chance of stun on all your attacks for 10sec after the attack occurs.

-Using one will cancel the other so if you do not want the effect of one, just override it with the other. This should be possible with the 'Swap Ammo' mechanic and adds the functionality of some AoE dmg to the set (and not excluding Stalkers) as well as heightened hard control without handing the set both at once.

Just curious, what other inspirations from anime are we seeking that isn't specifically the style itself? Okay, we've got big-swords ninja and I guess ninjas that *EXPLODE!* or use flashy powers. What else?

Asking because I'm waiting for my coffee to cool and I'm drawing a blank. I guess I could use more costumes with buckles in places you don't need buckles...but that's not so much anime....I mean, it's not like 'lots of buckles' is to anime as 'lots of pouches' is to Liefeld...

No, Ice is not conceptually flimsy. You can go outside right now and make a vest out of ice and ask a friend to slash at you with a knife. There will be a difference between doing that and getting slashed at without the ice vest and that difference will be you'll get cut up most likely and the other not likely on the first hit.

And it makes perfect sense that armor made of ice would deflect specific types of attacks, resulting in 0 dmg to the person which is simulated by defense.

You are *not* making your argument stronger by attempting to describe the mechanic's concept, I can tell you that.


Let me remind you that your 'vector resist' idea isn't a new mechanic, just a new variable in an equation. Now I was guessing someone would try to come up with a new mechanic that simulated 'vector resists' since simply adding a variable to all existing maths work isn't really viable (and you can't say your suggestion wouldn't be 10x harder than others unless those ideas are fundamental changes to the calculations of damage mitigation like this one would require). Adding [X] amount of fire damage to various attacks isn't nearly in the same hemisphere of code work that adding 3 dmg type or working deep in the code to have attacks checking for hit to then use a given resist value.

You haven't thought of the mechanic yet! Right now, vector resist isn't possible without reworking the very Hit and Damage calculations completely or going through the arduous process of adding these tags to every attack in the game. Unless you're fine with the idea just being in the 'well, it's a neat idea but it ain't viable at all' bin, then you need to come up with that game mechanic that works within the game engine that is virtually vector resists or simulates it somewhat.

Works if the concept of the 'armor set' is some kind of entity or source that doesn't particularly emanate from the body. For example:

-Fiery Aura, Ice Armor, Energy Aura, etc. are sources that emanate from the character and/or encapsulate the character's body. Anything that comes near or in contact with the body is affected and/or intercepted by that power.

-A spirit, deity or a power that fills or inhabits a larger area would have varying protection depending on the attack's vector. If the power is simulating a ghost floating beside you and absorbing attacks for you, it might do better at absorbing dissipated attacks (AoE) vs focused ones performed with the body (melee).

Thinking about it, I do have a character who might use something like vector resists. A character who has such an intense soul, it literally leaks out of his body (where most others are contained inside the body) in every direction for nearly 100 yards. Anything within his presence he can wrap his soul into and affect, changing it's appearance (illusions), hindering or dissipating enemy attacks or concentrating his energy into attacks of his own. Not saying he'd need vector based defense to work, but just saying it makes sense for him.

That's an interesting idea, although I don't think it particularly encourages one to take more attacks vs specializing the ones you can min/max with.

I like the mindset of the idea though...make Tankers seek more attacks, even redundant ones, to improve their offense....

Just a thought to modify your idea:

-What if the attacks didn't do 2x damage from this bonus, but a static [X] amount of damage, like a proc? The proc could be tailored to the Tanker primary (Fire armor does Fire dmg, Ice armor does ice dmg, Willpower psi, SR lethal, Inv smashing...) or just a certain damage for all...

-Rather than the extra damage being tied to a timer of it's own, each attack has it's own timer...that is, you can use Brawl+Armor Strike > Tier1+Armor Strike > Tier9+Armor Strike > Flurry+Armor Strike > Brawl+Armor Strike > Tier 1...

-The mechanism would be like the defiance system in that, every time you use an attack, that attack's icon appears in your buff bar and that attack will not disappear until 2x (or whatever might work for balance) the *base* recharge of the attack. If Brawl recharges in 2sec (?) then it won't proc for extra damage until after 4sec after the first time you use it so if you use Brawl once, then again after 3sec, it basically refreshes that 'debuff' on you, doesn't proc for extra dmg and you restart that 4sec timer.

-This means, rather than wanting to stack up those attacks like Defiance, you want to *wait* for that attack to disappear before using that attack again. Now you can use more attacks so that you have a heightened span of attacks you can proc with or you can simply leave your smaller attacks to 'charge' and use them for proccing (although that'd probably lower your DPS) while chaining the bigger, slower attacks without a proc.

Well how about my idea? I kinda suggested it before but it was said it wouldn't really accomplish anything...but at least it'd be fun, huh?

Basically, take all the Tanker melee AoE powers and adjust them on a set-by-set basis. Improving their range and increasing their target cap over what other melees get...

Sets with few AoEs like Energy Melee or Martial Arts would get treatment to make their 1 AoE *really* nice (can you say current Footstomp for MA and EM?) with a 12-15 target cap and a 15ft radius.

Sets that have a variety of AoEs would just have the buff spread around moderately...so Elec Melee might have the range of Chain Induction's jumps increased, the AoE of Thunderstrike expanded, the target cap of Lightning Rod upped, and the range or degree of Jacob's Ladder increased.

The idea would be, if it's AoE, it's bigger for Tanker. Not necessarily more powerful, but if it's bigger (or affects more targets) it's at least uniquely more functional....

And I'd even specifically go into the taunt/dmg auras and add that too. If it's easier to catch 10 targets on your Invicibility to get that max buff or that damage aura covers even more of the battle field, you're technically getting better use out of those powers than what a Brute would ever accomplish. And hey! It's easier aggro too!

Didn't know feline shifters were so popular (j/k).

Still waiting on Titan Weapons so that the human form of my character uses Kat/SR and the 2/3 form will use TW/WP. The 1/2 form will be a costume for each character though.

I'm probably never going to get a full biped form, which would either use some kind of knife, claws or focus on wind blasts from the mouth

Oh! Call em' a 'Shifter'.

If the playerbase hasn't agreed on a term, we can always try to establish one

I always hold onto AT concepts like a warm fuzzy teddy I cuddle and dream with

For Stalkers, they aren't 'stealthers' or ninjas, they're just *good* at what they do. A Stalker can be a ninja or an assassin or a hunter or a strategist or just a guy that's 'street smart'. But the thing they all have in common is they get the drop on their enemies and are good at ambushing the enemy. You don't have to specifically be a ninja for that...

For Tankers, their inherent is gauntlet ontop of their attacks. Dunno why I think the way I do (maybe because 'gauntlets' are larger than just your hands or regular gloves) but that makes me imagine Tankers as 'big'. Not in the size of their body, just in the size of what they do. They have to do things big to get the enemy's attention, after all.

So why why go after that granite despite him being slow? Why not walk around him and attack some other, softer target? Because he'll hit you anyway. Because, if you try to walk around him, you have to practically take an elevator, go a few stories around him, take the stairs and the side hallway behind him to literally 'get around' his aura of mud. His footstomp won't hurt as much as a Brute's but it'll knock your socks off from clear across the room!

...well, that's what I like to imagine when I play my Tankers. They're not as offensive oriented as other melee guys, but their moves are bigger and more noticable. And when things are bigger, they tend to be seen as more a threat, conceptually. Mechanically, no, that footstomp or shadow maul or sweeping Dragon's Tail isn't going to hurt more but you'd be tripped up more easily.

Lol yeah, I've always had the thought of 'longer range' and 'higher target cap' as being a conceptual buff to Tankers but since I don't play Tankers that often (only 2 of them and one of them barely got 50 a few weeks ago), I tend to keep my thoughts on the AT to myself

I'll point out that, although players can do so with certain builds or buffs or tactics....

But this isn't a "Press button, Get bacon" type of game. You try to bullrush things in the game that aren't designed to be bullrushed, you'll face resistance in doing so. You don't get to complain and ask for things to be made so simple that you can do anything any way you want without the effort put forth to do so...

-Regen makes your Tanker more difficult to survive? Get some crowd control or some buffs. Take advantage of temp powers and/or IO bonuses. Get more than one Tanker or just obliterate foes faster.

Yeah, it's annoying that your Tanker can't sit and taunt clockwork all day and not blink like he'd do with Council or Circle of Thorn, but it's also annoying my Stalkers can't one-shot bosses or that my Doms can't keep EBs mezzed or that my Blasters don't drop whole spawns with their nukes. No, that just means bosses were made to be a threat and not Stalker fodder, that some things in the game aren't meant to be statues 100% of the time and that Blasters need not rely only on their nuking abilities.

-Regen isn't meant to be a special knee to the groin to every AT but only a tap on the shoulder for Tankers, it's to harm everyone *including* Tankers.

That has yet to be discussed, AFAIK.

As it has taken me practically watching these threads like a hawk and attempting to convey what is going on through my head, I've *barely* been able to steer discussion to figure how these new changes will make the interruptible AS (and placate) feel/perform when factoring in Assassin's Focus...and Siolfir probably did most of the steering to get us there...so I don't know what I'd have to do to get people to discuss Demoralize...

Take off my shirt, maybe? Dress up in my french maid outfit and tidy up your house for you? Make cookies while I'm at it? Whatever it is, I'm sure it'll be hard work (cause I don't gotz numberz >_>)



Yeah, my bad. I got all uppity when I read Siolfir's post wrong. Not sure if anything more has been discussed about the new changes, but hoping the devs are still looking into adjusting their ideas before implementing them.