Leo_G

It wasn't anything dumb like no mez protection...

I was thinking about a new DA/Mace. He'd have taunt and stuff but he'd opt for improving stuns. And rather than defense bonuses from IOs, I was going to aim for +HP, +END and recovery and other stuff...but his concept is he likes to be hit...like a masochist or something.

Yeah, I've just got his concept and possible costume but haven't done anything beyond that.

Okay.

Why can we not discuss the ramifications of possible changes? I can understand if it's the same old discussion and you don't want to hear it. Well, no one's forcing you. Why are you getting hostile? Just mellow out and discuss. I don't believe I've shown any indication of *asking* for anything to change. I simply put up a suggestion.

No, Controllers have 2 inherents. Containment simply does double (sometimes) damage when a target is under the mezzes you list.

Overpower is a 20% chance for an additional 1mag of mez added to their mez powers. So a Fossilize will cast a mag 3 hold on a target with a 20% chance of an additional mag of 1.

As I pointed out earlier, the improvements don't have to be linear 20%+ range or something. They can be hand-adjusted to keep balance with respect to the other sets.

I'd actually say 'look at containment'. As an inherent, does it actually provide the consistency you're talking about? If I remember correctly, there are some damage powers available to Controllers that only partially benefit from the containment bonus. And there are other damage powers that get no benefit from it (Repulsion Bomb, IIRC).

As for the range buff being inconsistent with sets, I'd say it's possible but I'd have to see the numbers. You point to Whirling Hands but WH sucks not because EM sucks. It sucks because it's inferior in every way to every like power. It has shorter range, it hits fewer enemies and does less damage than the Dominator version and ultimately does less overall than other Tanker PBAoEs. But that can change. Sort of like how SS can manage to call itself an AoE set with only 1 AoE...but beyond that, EM simply has problems. Problems that aren't being fixed by an addition to the Tanker inherent.

For AoE intensive sets, again, we'd need numbers. Just because we're widening the area on *some* AoEs, doesn't mean we have to increase the number of foes affected or vise-versa. Just like Axe and Broadsword and Mace have different ranges on their cones, it preserves flavor. So improving the AoEs could be done while keeping flavor and balance in mind.

Touché. You got me there. On the other hand, I have a MA/SD scrapper that is built nearly the same except the Tanker has SJ and runs combat jumping while the Scrapper just has the teleport pool. And yet, I find the scrapper runs out of endurance far more often.


Personally, I think it's that I use Shadow Maul more often when there are a decent amount of foes. By hitting 3 or more foes with it, it is probably the most damaging attack in the set for its cost.


I'd certainly take an END discount as part of the improved inherent, especially if I ever look into making a DA/Mace that I had been planning on. The only part I don't like is that, for some sets like Elec Armor and soon Energy Aura, discounting endurance cost devalues the bonuses those sets provide. Both have similar discounts as well as +END powers which would also do little for them. But, if anything, rather than adding such a discount to the inherent, it'd probably be justified to simply adjust the powers similar to how the devs adjusted Claws when proliferating it to Brutes.

WHOA! Wait a minute! I'm kinda new to Tankers, but is that what's going to be expected of me when I get to 50? Sport a specific IO build to fulfill the expectations of others?

Never on any of my other characters, am I pigeonholed into a build that might not even be the concept my character is aiming for (and I usually IO all my characters, or have a build planned for them). Maybe I'll just go back to the freer lifestyle of a scrapper or stalker then >_>

Gotta agree with the leveraging survivability issue. When I solo, I'm set to +1x3 simply because I'm SD/DM and don't have many AoEs. But I still heard 2, possibly 3, spawns together for the fun and challenge.

It's one reason I sorta thought the range improvement on AoEs would be leverageable as a solo buff. The Tanker can simply sustain itself against more foes so have a better opportunity to use said range increase...but it was just a thought I had while soloing.

That 'extra dmg on foes not attacking you' would be 'kinda nice' but ultimately not used as I may try to pull a group around a corner so my AoEs will hit more enemies.

This almost correlates to the increase range idea directly. Simply hitting more foes more easily basically gives an endurance discount. Except that, rather than scaling by team size, it scales by how many enemies are around you. The endurance discount is novel and I'd enjoy that but, as Talen_Lee so eloquently put it, "Perception issues are only fixed through things that are outrageously hard to miss" and the endurance discount is barely noticeable as a change.

I know on normal spawns, my SD/DM doesn't run out of endurance despite needing to punch *a LOT* to take down things. Only with endurance drain present does he even have to look at Dark Consumption and blue pills. Now if I made a /SS I'm pretty sure I'd notice it a bit more.

Anyway, I think, if they ever did add stuff to Gauntlet, it won't just be one thing. Just like when they added to Assassination, they added multiple aspects to it. Hopefully the devs will add 2 or more of the ideas people suggest on the forums as they'd all really help. No need for a straight dmg or mitigation buff but little perks depending on team make-up or situation would probably be more likely.

Short version: a buff/buff AT would be similar to Smurphy's new avatar. Really cute, but ultimately helpless and ineffective

Part of this, I'd hope, would be handled by the AT's inherent or power combinations. i.e. throw some mez protection as the inherent so that's one less thing to make the AT squishy.

Melee not only does more damage vs fewer targets (blasts tend to do more damage vs more targets) but it's a completely different concept. The attack methods are different and the ATs that tend to attack at range have crap HP. Making a melee/(de)buff AT justifies scrapper HP resulting in a hardier character overall.

(since we're apparently getting hostile here)

That's a stupid analogy. For one, we're not building a new AT, so an analogy about building a new bridge has no bearing on what should be discussed. For two, if we were, indeed, asked to build a bridge with nothing but a string and a tomato, you can't complain about the results. As far as I can tell, a straight damage bonus has been shot down. A scaling damage bonus has been shot down. Increased aggro has been shot down. Nearly anything and everything has been shot down. There's little left to work with but I'd love to hear your opinion on Tanker issues.

Thanks for your opinion. Okay now. Bye bye then.

The idea is, no matter the size of the Tanker itself, the scope of its attacks have to be pretty 'big' to be noticeable. And that's what the Tanker wants, for the enemy to turn heads and take notice of him.

So why not increase the area/arc of the AoEs and possibly boost the max foes on Tanker's attacks to help portray that? Brutes and Scrappers will still do more damage with the same cones/AoEs but a Tanker can simply hit *more* foes with it and more easily.

Single hard targets will still take a while but, in contrast, Stalkers have fewer AoEs but can eliminate single foes very quickly so it's a fair compromise, IMO.

What do you guys think? Would it do anything to fix the perception issues Tankers suffer?

What does this mean? AoE attacks and effects are increased in radius and arc and/or number of foes affected.

For example: Dark Melee; Soul Drain would have its range increased from 10 ft to 15 ft and Dark Consumption would have its range increased from 8ft to 15 ft. Shadow Maul would have its range increased from 7ft to 10ft, its arc improved from 45 degrees to 90 degrees and the number of foes affected from 5 to 8.

For Super Strength; for Footstomp basically just increase the number of foes affected from 10 to 15.

For Energy Melee; improve Whirling Hands from 8ft to 15ft and the number of foes effected from 10 to 15.

It could even extend to aggro auras, improving their range a few feet.

So it's not directly improving the dmg of the sets or even raising the aggro cap, but you'd still be able to stay on more enemies 'list' as their numbers steadily decrease.

PS: suggested numbers were pulled out of my bum and are subject to change with regard to balance.

That was my thought as well when I posted this. I still love Sonic Blast but I just wish it could all shoot from the hands and would just would have made a different type character if it all emanated from the mouth.

At the least, if they ever did give alternate emanation points, they could 'ease' into it, starting with 1 extra point per set until they finally smooth out enough animations to spread across the other sets.