Leo_G

Personally, I'm not keen on the whole concept of an 'armor' armor set, but the ablative armor mechanic might be cool...

Thinking out loud:
-What if there was a click power that granted you an invisible pet.
-This pet would be linked to the caster to take damage in the caster's place (think MM Bodyguard but the pet take all the damage).
-If need be, make the caster 'Untouchable' while the pet is alive.
-Like MM pets, when you cast it, the 'Armor' appears in a pet window so you know how much damage it could take before you have to 'summon' it again.
-Of course, the pet is unbuffable and unhealable by teammates. You could have powers in the set that 'repair' or 'enhance' your 'armor' pet though.

...basically, it's like taking a Mastermind set and replacing the pets with personal armor...almost exactly that...actually, I'd want this to be a MM set...like a mech suit mastermind or something >_>

Yeah, I figure it would be more prone to alternate builds to fit a more diversified set of attack sets and styles. You'd more likely choose to run one or the other...but considering the tier 9, if you could split your damage with 2 or 3 descructible pets that float near you, you could probably get away with weaker slotting for resistance.



I'd probably try for 2. These pets wouldn't be buffable and aren't meant to be that sturdy. Once they go down, you have to wait for the 10sec pulse for automatic resummoning. I figure the pets are more there to 'shatter' than to protect...but yeah, 3 is probably a bit much...and if they can animate a non-human shaped bone creature to be the pet then go for it!

Nobody likes transforming, apparently. I personally don't play Stone Armor (but that's more how the set is laid out not the looks...but I don't like the looks either). No one likes Power Surge either which changes you into living electricity. I'd steer away from transforming tier 9s. Although I like the premise of your idea, I don't think the +range would do anything because melee attacks are not affected by such buffs...but you can change a +% chance for a proc to specific powers (think Dual Pistol's Swap Ammo removing or adding the effects of each power within the set).

Too complicated. The pet thing isn't, but the buffs are. What about a similar premise but just using MM's Bodyguard effect, i.e. splitting the dmg you receive with 3 destructible pets?

Interesting premise but could be difficult to balance...

Tier 1: Carapace

Toggle, 0.2 end/second **Special
*Res: +25% vs Smash/Lethal, +20% vs Toxic
**Def: +16% vs Smash/Lethal, +4% vs Neg Energy

Tier 2: Marrow Coating

Toggle, 0.2 end/second **Special
*Res: +30% vs Neg Energy, +15% to Fire/Cold/Energy/Toxic
**Def: +16% vs Cold/Energy/Neg Energy, +10% vs Fire

Tier 3: Bone Shrapnel

Toggle, .85 end/sec ***Special
Damage Lethal: pulses 2sec upon receiving dmg based on current HP after that period. Scale dmg improves with lower health
**Additional 10ft dmg pulse upon death
***Additional 15ft pulse with Bone Avatar activated

Tier 4: Bone Plates

Toggle, 0.2 end/second **Special
*Regen: Scaling +regen that improves with lower health.
**Res: Scaling +res that degrades with lower health.

Tier 5: Internal Plating

Toggle, 0.2 end/sec
Res 12 Mag protection against Hold, Immob, Stun, KB, Confusion
Regen +200% (enhanceable)

Tier 6: Calcify

Click, 10 endurance cost
Self 25% +Heal, 100% +Regen, +10 mag mez protection vs Sleep (Energize Clone -Endurance Discount traded for a 15sec longer +regen duration)

Tier 7: **Armor Conditioning: Fossilize; *Armor Conditioning: Reinforce
Toggles, 0 endurance cost
Fossilize is the +def option, Reinforce is the +res option

Tier 8: Bone Cage
Toggle .75% end/sec
(Clone of Personal Force Field but you can't move with this on)

Tier 9: Avatar of Bone
Toggle compound endurance cost .22 end/sec + .22 end/sec after 20 sec(not affected by endurance discounts) + 1.22 end/sec after 60 sec (also not affected by endurance discounts)

Summons 3 destructible bone pets that follow you and share your damage. They are continuously summoned after defeat with a 10sec pulse. Each has a weaker version of Bone Shrapnel so will pulse damage when they take damage.
Also, while Avatar of Bone is toggled, your Bone Shrapnel power is improved.

The way I see it, the set would have the only dmg aura a Stalker could use. Make crit-able so it wouldn't be so bad if the enemy hits through your placate.

I'm with Starsman. Without something unique to separate it from the other armor sets, you're not asking for a cool new armor set to play with but a costume set to fulfill your concept.

When I think of 'Bone Armor' I think of a hard plate exoskeleton, not a bunch of spikes...spikes are just spines...

So the bone shards dmg aura kinda clash considering the names say 'carapace' and 'bone plates'. The idea of your bone armor breaking and causing damage is cool though but probably wouldn't be as useful with no self-rez after you die.

What about combining those two? A dmg aura that only procs when a hit connects? The bigger the attack (and/or the lower your HP) that hits the armor, the heavier the damage pulse ending in spectacular armor shatter at death that does max dmg at increased range (10ft instead of 8ft?). Kind of fits with Aett's proposed set too considering Bone Plate protects you less when you're at less health, so your dmg aura will cause more dmg if the enemy can bring you down that far.

Also considering the weaker protection with low health, I'd want a self-rez in there. I never cared for the crashing tier 9s. Their crash and long rech make them really unwieldy. Why not just make the Hibernate clone the tier 9? Or a short duration, shorter rech and crashless tier 9 like Regeneration?

I don't like the idea of self-buff only. I want a melee defender primarily because the ranged defender is slow, anemic and doesn't carry the style I favor (I like melee especially weapon melee. if you're going to be blasting at range, you need to be able to decimate the enemy to keep my attention either outright defeating them quickly (blaster) or just plain screw them over (dominator))

I want to play a defender and help people but I also want to smack stuff up close.

In that case, I favor the OP's idea.

For the inherent, I'd want something closer to dominators (their inherent is just so wonderful). Call it 'Revenge'.
-You build a bar by being attacked (only) that increases your chance to exact revenge on the enemy.
--Revenge = chance of added debuff/buff to your support powers. So Sonic Siphon has -22% res to a target but has a chance to add an additional -6.6% res (30% of the original debuff).
--Revenge = also a chance to do a 'critical strike' that does an additional 50% of the original attack
-You also have a click button like domination. This Revenge button is basically a breakfree/20% heal(or whatever is balanced) that recharges in 60sec(not affected by +rech) with a 30sec duration...but this has a chance to proc the revenge for double the effect (60sec mez protection/40%heal).

For the trickster, the lack of soft control makes this feel subpar. The lack of anything special like the control set's pet doesn't set this apart from the tanker who takes an epic pool set. But overall, it seems to have at least some sense of balance. It'd be weak but defensive...so it probably wouldn't be very popular.

I would say replace the AoE hold and build up with placate and a sort of Assassin's Strike but for control...like a ranged, short radius (like 8ft) AoE confuse with an interruptible animation. Give them Stalker defense sets (complete with Hide) with some kind of bonus to either attacks or controls?

I dunno, just thinking out loud here.

My suggestion to those issues, while probably the tougher road I think the game would be greatly improved besides, is to add more varied enemy groups. We need varying and alternate enemy groups that cover all origins across all level ranges.

Although I don't really fight enemies for their enhancement drops, if you needed to more options should be available. Not sure about the new enemy copy-cats we're getting soon...maybe it will help this issue.

The analogy is, it's a two-way street. If it's an unbeatable defense, it's only because neither foe has joined on the battlefield to begin to fight. No army will defeat the other if they never engage. So Earth 007b's army has an unbeatable defense because they're in a parallel dimension to Earth 1801q, unable to cross path?


Then make an argument well enough to claim it as law.


And phasing a Dark Ring mistress then facing it alone will not guarantee you're not drained and beaten by the time you dispose of her and unable to fight the rest of the spawn.

My suggestion specifically doesn't make you immune to death either.


Why indeed. Double standards are rife when it comes to stalkers. Look at Regen, Electric Armor and Dark Armor. While servicable, they don't hold a candle to Ninjutsu, Super Reflexes and to a lesser extent Willpower.

Are you implying Stalkers should just be satisfied with the hand-me-downs of the other melees for their armor sets? That designing a set with their tactics in mind is not a venue that should be accommodated?

Not speaking for the OP of this thread but my idea specifically: it has weaknesses too. It isn't as good at fighting many foes as other armors. Also, AVs and GMs have immunity and/or high resistance to phasing so much of the benefits the set offers vs those single hard targets are only realized on bosses and elite bosses.

No offense but, working on an MMO doesn't make you an expert on balance or broken-ness. (See Jack Emmert)

You boast your knowledge and creativity. To a true creative thinker, no idea is broken.

Actually, and I could be wrong about this because I've never actually taken Phase Shift to a Hami raid, but Hamidon ignores Phase shift. He can attack you through it as well as Hibernate.

Think about it this way: This is a combat oriented game. Your objective, more often than not, is to defeat the enemy. If you can't defeat the enemy, you fail (or do not succeed). Phasing is not an unbeatable defense, no more than having the end boss being on the other end of Independence port without any attack long range enough to hit you with.
And popping evade or unstoppable to take that alpha strike will give you just as much (if not enough to simply not be defeated) protection while being able to actually win.

To state something is broken, you'd have to have proof. You can be of the opinion that it's overpowered. Sure. But to say it's broken without proof is rather pointless.

Outside of all the other stuff you said, I feel it's pointless to drone on about it further but I'll point back to your comment about suggesting unique ideas as 'fine and dandy but...'

No one seems to have an issue with Willpower and how it can wade into a mass of weak to moderate enemies and stand around all day without worry of defeat (please, someone crunch the numbers on that. How much danger is a WP brute in a group of +0 minions and Lts? How many of them does it take to defeat him and how long?). Or the Shield Scrapper that gets absurd levels of damage with a huge AoE attack to swing around with it.

So what's wrong with an armor set specifically designed to handle single targets rather than masses of them? It's what a Stalker does best and why I proposed it as a set for that AT. Just like the masses of weaker targets pose no threat to the WP tank or the masses are simply fodder for the Shield Scrapper, a hard single target would be snipped by the Phasing Stalker. It's what it does well and would seem overpowering if only it's advantage were considered rather than everything the set provides. I bet if we never got WP or Shields and I told you the numbers and tactics of them now, you'd probably say they were overpowered too...and they just might be....but then fighting hoards of enemies with masses of AoE is 'the fad' of the game so should seem far above focusing on that hard boss.

It's because you have some skewed sense of balance and overpoweredness that hinges on intangibility being some kind of omnipotent god mode yet fail to measure exactly what utility such a mode costs. Of course you're going to ask repeatedly, because you want an answer that supports your opinion. Well I only have answers that defy your opinion. So it's probably pointless for me to press on any further.

But have you contemplated the other side of the argument? The side where opinion says intangibility is a *burden* and phasing is *useless*? That such type powers can and will be skipped because their utility doesn't outweight the power slot? I have, and that's why I propose multi-layer utility for it. That's why shifting in my idea improves regen. It's why I proposed the ability to 'un-phase' mobs that phased themselves as a means to aid the team. And it's why phasing a single target to deal with it alone is a possibility. You can use one, all or none of the above and the set can still function.

But the primary reason for the suggestion is because such a mechanic is underutilized. No one likes phase because the few powers in the game that do it aren't very useful. If the mechanic were spread more throughout the game, with more enemies that phase themselves or others with more powers that accept intangibility enhancements is the time and place the suggested set would be useful in.

More likely than not, you're phasing a target to separate him from his allies because he's too dangerous to face normally. It's most likely a boss or elite boss or a defensive Lt. Just like any other control power, it's built to make the enemy easier to fight head on.

Also, in a team environment, if you're grabbing a target and making him untouchable by the rest of your team except you, you'd better handle it yourself otherwise you're just slowing them down. Both the bonuses while phased and the debuff (probably only minor to moderate) will make that so.

You did read the thread and not just the first post, right?

The old risk vs reward mantra. Now tell me where I said you insta-kill enemies for full rewards with *no* effort or retaliation. You still have to defeat the enemy. If one by one enemy removal is the epitome of broken-ness, you're as blind as the hit-and-run stalkers that everyone claims are the majority.

Yes, you can single out an enemy, and beat him while his buddies are helpless to aid him (if they can't phase themselves) then rinse and repeat. But it will be slower than a petless MM soloing because most likely the foe intangible power will have a moderate to high recharge.

That said, I never claimed the set I proposed was great or balanced but it's unique. And those that have discussed it aren't really worried about the whole 'can't touch this' status because, on a melee character who will wipe out entire spawns in a matter of a 30sec window, the utility of it all is more than suspect.

Exactly how useful is that, though? What are the benefits of doing this? To puff out your chest and boasts that you can 'tank' an AV forever?

My argument wasn't that longer duration is better but that the pool power does the same thing as this tier 9 but to a greater effect with no prime benefit to go with the set power. I believe there's a rule that pool powers are less effective than their equivalent powerset powers. And I don't mean that this is broken, just wrong.

I have suggested a set. It was called Phantom Aura and was designed as a Stalker/Scrapper powerset with the concept of you being semi-incorporeal. It was put forth for those ATs because taunting and tanking is not a job needed to be undertaken by them so being phased wouldn't overly penalize their playstyle.

You kind of have to read the whole thread though as the idea was added to and changed by various posters (and the fact I didn't know much about the issues of phase when I first made the OP). The discussion seemed to be going toward the utility of being able to Phase, not it being overpowered.
*

This argument is useless. A stalker can walk nearly all zones without being harassed from level one. That anyone, Tanker or no, can walk around a zone and not be attacked is no more a balancing point than an endurance-less 100% invis.

And then there is phase suppression. You know? The 'No.Phase' buff you get after dropping from a phased state? That flies in the face of your argument. You'd taunt, toggle on, wait until aggro wears off, toggle off, taunt and *oops* gotta wait until the 'No.Phase' and the toggle to recharge.

And that's where you fail to understand how much 'Worse' this is to a pool power. Because, on a Stalker, Taunting foes and phasing is USELESS! Because taunting foes and then being unable to attack on a Scrapper detracts from your job. Because on a Brute, being unable to attack anything is punishment enough without taking up your best armor power.

You're putting far too much weight on the enemy not being able to attack you and not enough weight on you not being able to hit back...you know, the job of Stalkers, Scrappers and Brutes?

And a Tanker that just taunts every now and then and phases is less effective than a Tanker that just simply taunts. Remember that.

So your argument is "You can taunt and then go intangible. Broken!" but then suggest a tier 9 that does exactly that but with one click of a button? I fail to see your logic.

Incentive to actually *use* Phase Shift from the concealment pool?

Solution to the PvP woes: -Inventions temp powers and PvP purchasable temp powers that grant phase shift. Done and done.

There's a reason the devs implemented the Phase attacks Phase rule in PvP. No one will be 100% safe with just intangibility.

I'd be hard pressed to decide where resources are ultimately better used for. Personally, I'd rather they just add a slew of animations to the existing sets (like plasma blade animations for all Fire Melee, cryo-blade for Ice Melee, Pole-axe/scythe animations for Battle Axe, Hand Cannon for Sonic, etc) than 'wasting' resources on new sets that have esoteric concepts like 'Demon Summoning' and 'Kinetics'.

Obviously, much of that is an exaggeration. I *want* new sets but that doesn't mean proliferation, animation re-works or alternate animations will somehow 'get in the way' of said new sets. Our devs are awesome. They can do it all ^^



-Implementation of CoV was still too early in the game's lifespan for serious consideration of this concept
-Show me where the option already exists?
-Kinetic Melee is not ranged. It's melee.

Because I have a differing opinion that opposes the common direction of the thread and I don't feel like coming back to defend my positions constantly.

But changing the very foundation of enhancements miffs with way too many other things besides the issues this thread is concerned with.