Leo_G

Lol why even dignify this with a response?

Really, the OP wants an AoE slow/-rech power? Pick up Crushing Field and slot it with Pace of the Turtle: Chance of -Rech proc.

Well, what I suggest isn't one color per blast. Those are just tags for explanation that's more easier to grasp. i.e. how easy is it to translate "wavelength splash: 450 nm" compared to "color splash: violet"?

And this is why it shouldn't be called "Rainbow Blast". Because it denotes color and colors can be changed. Unless you're suggesting this blast set have 7 colorable FX for each 1 power, it's no rainbow (also, there's no 'rain' so it can't technically be a rainbow. It should be "Spectrum Blast").

Not claiming my idea is good, but technically, you could probably incorporate illusionary damage into "Radiant Blast" under the assumption that separate wavelengths within Ultraviolet and Infrared cannot cause significant permanent damage...the tier 9 white light nova, though, could be all 'real' damage.

...just a thought.

Lol, coming from the poster that said "Math or it didn't happen."

Hypocrisy much?

Well excUUUuuuUUSe me! I was drinking when I posted that so think I did pretty good considering I typed them in reverse order that most people recall the spectrum.



Anyways, since you're so adamant about this concept, I'll propose my take on it...

Rename "Rainbow Blast" to "Radiant Blast" - Why? Because you're able to color your powers to use whatever colors you want either using all colors or just 1. It really isn't a rainbow if you decide to use only 1 or 2 colors.

Radiant Blast: Using varying wavelengths and combinations of light, the user of Radiant Blasts can create mixtures of energy then manipulate them in varying ways. Either unleashing the effects upon enemies or absorbing them for your own benefit.

Wavelength mix = requires a mix of 3 different frequencies. For explanation's sake, we'll say color names. The set will have 6 blasts, 1 control that relate to a certain end of the spectrum. You must combine at least 3 (like combos but in no specific order) to unleash either Wavelength mixes. Using a color associated with the other end cancels the mix and using attacks consistent with either category continues to proc the effect. The proc does not stack with the same user.
--Infrared (red, orange, yellow or green) = 100% proc for fire dmg and -def or +regen and ToHit on self.
--Ultraviolet (violet, indigo, blue or green) = 100% proc for -res and foe knockdown or +res to all but psi/toxic on self.

1. High Oscillating Shot (ST energy dmg; *special color splash 'red') Note, the animations would be the same suggested by the OP. To differentiate them, the length of oscillation for the arcs differ, being smaller and faster waves for 'high/red' and longer and slower waves for 'low/violet'. Also, color splash is like Gauntlet in that it spreads the special to all in range.

2. Low Oscillating Burst (ST energy dmg; *special color splash 'violet')

3. Low Frequency Wave (Cone energy dmg; *special color splash 'indigo')

4. High Frequency Stream (ST moderate energy dmg; self +dmg/ToHit; *special color splash 'orange')

5. Low Oscillating Orb (Ranged AoE energy/knockdown; *special color splash 'blue')

6. High Radiant Rain (Ground target AoE energy dmg/slow; *special color splash 'yellow')

7. Absorb Radiance (Cone Foe -dmg/slow movement; *special removes all color splash; *special self buff per-foe)Note, you get a self buff for each foe caught in this that also has the corresponding wavelength mix.

8. Radiant Flash (ST foe hold/-ToHit; *special color splash 'green')Note, this is the 'middle' frequency of all the color and can be used to produce the Infrared effect or Ultraviolet effect.

9. Prismatic Burst (wide arc cone nova, self -END, -recovery, -regen) This uses all colors, i.e. white. So does not interfere with either Infrared or Ultraviolet effects.


Notes: The splash color effect has a decent duration so there's no real haste to get the effect. The names are up for debate but basically, High = Infrared and Low = Ultraviolet for simplicity by the user. Ideally, the user could proc one of the combos once then use Absorb radiance to buff himself OR they can keep using same frequency powers and continue to proc the effect. The -def from Infrared doesn't stack but you can keep getting the fire dmg on all in range. Similarly, the -res doesn't stack from Ultraviolet but you can keep KD on the enemies.

Probably not considering Elec melee isn't in the "highest ST DPS" role for *any* of the melee ATs.

And in CoH Beta, there was no target cap IIRC so blast AoEs were ridiculous. Also, enemies didn't always have ranged attacks. And there was no travel suppression. Oh, and no ED. Back then, 6 slotting your fire blasts for damage, 6 slotting your armors for def/res, get Tactics for accuracy, stamina for endurance, hasten for rech and pick fly and zip around sniping things to death and zipping around blasting stuff while enemies are helpless to attack back because all they had was melee...yeah that was pretty overpowered.

Can you do *any* of that now? The best you can really do with that now is shoot at something and take some out before they close into melee with you. There's the option to kite if you pick up +speed bonuses and rely on unsupressed movement but it's really no different from Scrappers with ranged attacks (like Claws or Spines). Not particularly effective but useful.

I'm curious to know what the devs stance on a ranged/defense AT actually is. I'm not going to jump to conclusions and say they're 'keeping it away from us' or 'they don't like it because it's overpowered'. Really, I'm betting the devs are thinking 'It's a lot of work and requires extensive revamping'. Because there are many sets that work better in melee but this AT would lose much of that advantage. I doubt it's because it's too powerful. In PvE, it just isn't. In PvP, it's probably about as good as combining extreme stealth and extreme ST damage...just slower.

That may be true but that's completely different from all the other excuses you came up with like 'it was broken then so it's broken now' and 'the concept is fulfilled'.

Well, I was talking about *new* sets. Like Willpower, Shield Defense, Dual Pistols, etc. That is, sets with all new powers. Willpower is unique in that it was the 1st defense set with a mini-godmode that didn't crash anything (it just takes a chunck of END afterwards).

Katana was one of the 1st powersets in the game so isn't what I'm talking about. Pain Domination yeah, it's 'unique' in that it's like an offensive version of Empathy that buffs he user as he heals others...that's something new...and still keeps close to Empathy (like everyone wanted).

As for suggestions, I dunno. Give me a chance to take another shot and maybe I'll be hit by inspiration...Maybe play on he whole 'rainbow' 'spectrum of colors' deal. You've got 6 colors (violet, blue, green, yellow, orange and red), combined colors (white) and lack of color (black). 8 colors there. Plus some sort of build up power or control power...

Make a proc mechanic that requires 3 frequencies of the spectrum that does *something*? Kinda like DB combos but you don't have to use a certain string of attacks? Just put 3 wavelengths on a foe at once...

But there's no strong conceptual link to the 2 more unique power mechanics of the set. There's not real rhyme or reason *why* the set has a ranged follow up like, why does DB have blinding feint? Well, it's using 2 swords to link attacks together to make them stronger. If anything, Dual Pistols makes more sense to have a ranged follow up but it went for a more unique mechanic.

And the TP nova fails me to provide a unique feel to this set, mechanic wise. Yes, it's not like any other nova but why is this the pivot point for unique mechanics for the set? Why would you even want to TP into the enemy and have no endurance afterwards? I.e. what's so unique about it considering the entire set?

Nothing really groundbreaking and as far as I can tell, most new sets are pretty much that. Groundbreaking and unique to set them apart from any other set.

And electric melee, which does better on a Stalker than any other melee AT.

But how does AoE calculate in DPS discussions? Usually, those high DPS attack chains that brute and scraps talk about are all ST focused.

And it's not to say Stalkers don't get AoE either. Dual Blades, Electric Melee, Spines, Mace Mastery and Mu Mastery all have decent to great AoE that can crit with a 50% rate from hidden status.

Nah, if you're going to propose crap HP for this AT, you might as well just toss the idea in the garbage. Seriously, it's bad enough the resist sets are sub-par on Stalkers, but on this new ranged/def AT, sets like Regen and Electric Armor will be practically useless.

If nothing else, this AT should have Stalker/Blaster HP/cap. For damage, I'd suggest replacing Build up with a more debuff-y power for when the enemy gets in melee. Basically, I think this AT should probably not be a 'burst damage' AT and more on utility...Oh, and it'd be awesome if this AT gets a tuned down nova tier 9 that does less dmg, recharges a bit faster and causes no crash.

As for the list, Steampunkette, I understand already that melee attacks generally hit harder on a good deal of enemies. The argument I was making was there is no 'melee resist' or 'ranged resist'. Whatever you resist no matter what position will react equally to stats. You can't put this situation in a vacuum and expect it to be universally applicable.

There's no mechanical uniqueness to it, just a few 'different' powers like a reskinned Drain Psyche and a 'ranged Follow-up'. Concept-wise, it's fulfilled by Energy Blast or even Fire Blast. And the lack of some sort of secondary effect weakens its unity as a set.

As for the actual visuals, they sound nice. But you're better off hoping the devs will get around to making alternate animations for sets and making this one for Energy or Fire Blast.

Yeah, that argument doesn't work here as ATs like Brutes and Scrappers can do anything in this game, certain Controllers can farm countless enemies by themselves and Defenders can take down the toughest foes in the game if they put their power to it.

Where is this rule stated? Besides there being exceptions, there are examples that just completely flip flot it. Hell, there are enemies that *ONLY* use ranged attacks.

Since there are exceptions to your 'rule' how in heavens name can you 'calculate' the effective damage resist of positions!? That's like saying 22.5% damage resistance at AoE is superior to either...How!?

Serious question to anyone reading my post. Do you kite with your Blasters? And I mean kite *everything*. Cause yeah, occasionally, I'll step back when there's a boss in my face but I'd more likely use a control, debuff or better yet, Knockback, to mitigate. Because a kiting Blaster is killing slower. Longer fights equal higher risk and that is plain common sense.

That works for players too. Ranged and melee attacks usually do similar damage (with an edge going to melee) yet the melee recharge faster and have a strong tier 9 that can be used in an attack chain. So your ranged attacks will meet similar persistence vs the enemy's resistance. Sure, there's usually a tier 3 blast that does some good heavy hitting (usually inferior to the melee tier 9) but they often have their ranged cut severely...so...I dunno, I'm just not seeing it.

All in all, it's a wash and a point that really doesn't make a difference.

That is if you're equating lack of convenience with irritation. Some players despise KB because they have to run a few feet to keep smacking on the enemy. If I could, I'd smack a foe away and will keep smacking it where ever it goes. I slot my Golden Dragonfly with KB...

On the runner thing, I actually like it on my Elec/Regen. Because a runner isn't attacking me. More chance to regen and recharge my powers while still being engaged in combat.

And that is equating challenge with bad design. A game should make you work to succeed. But that isn't to say needing a full group to smack on one huge sack of HP for the best xp/hr despite its challenge (looking at you FFXI) is better or even good.

You need to distinguish this. Running after a guy that moved from your AoE isn't bad design. That's just logic. Nor does it constitute a drastic change in strategy.

I feel people overlook the fun of the game, myself. For whatever reason, fun has been leveraged around efficiency for damn near every MMO I've ever played. This game is different in that you set your own pace. Your own difficulty. Your own missions. That efficiency isn't an important factor is why I'll probably never leave this game.

All these "no runners" "AoE or go home" "I hate KB" zealots can be ignored because they're usually balanced by the opposing zealots. Thankfully, I'm in the middle and don't care one way or the other. But that isn't to say one side isn't represented enough. There's a reason AoE is so prominent...it's very effective. Don't you feel there should be something to counter this particular tactic just like there are counters for other advantages?

There's gotta be some name for that type of argument...

But runners or non-AoE tactics aren't dibilitating to the point that you cannot play or cannot progress in this game. Are you so steeped in convenience that you see no other alternatives? Do you ever go camping? Camping can be fun for a lot. If that's not your cup of tea, go for a hike or long bike ride without technology there for your convenience. Having everything spread out infront of you is great but it's not the default...

Annoying to some is "Ah Ha! Check! Gotcha lol!" to others. Runners are annoying...if you fail to use tactics to counter them like slows, KB or immobilizes (which are oh so common and stackable). Oh, but you don't have these on your Fire Melee/Shield scrapper? Too bad? Not everyone gets every advantage...that's what advantages are there for...because not everyone gets all of them. In your midget chair example, yeah, it'd be annoying...but if I was a paraplegic in a wheelchair and couldn't feel my legs "HA! Gotcha! I can't even feel that you annoying *****!"...it may not equal out the disadvantage of not being able to walk but it's an advantage.

What's annoying to your scrapper is trivial for someone else's tanker and non-existent on my dominator. My dom is annoyed that he struggles so to mez elite bosses and AVs, but it would be ludicrous if I could mez them like the hoards of other enemies.

Likewise, how we can currently turn groups of enemies into fodder en mass thanks to basic AI and abusing +rech and AoE dmg is equally as ludicrous to me. But there's room there to change.

If I were suggesting changes to enemy AI, it would be to add variety to enemy groups. You'd have your "herd/farm with AoE" mobs like the Freakshow and Warriors, then the "scatter and blast" groups in the Malta, and the "volley fire, I'm not wasting time moving" tactics in Nemesis. Of course, even more variety is needed. It's hard to play a single character all the way to lvl 50 for me because it gets so repetitive tactics-wise.

Okay, can you come up with any more reasons besides those 3?

You said you had lots.

Well, you could always just kinda give Hide for free ^^ it already doesn't cost endurance...sure, keep it as the tier 1 power but have it not cost a power slot.

And I demand you change your avatar. It's a crime to associate something that cute with a crude poster like Bill!

Well, in the case of facing primarily lethal damage foes such as Council (there's some mix of smashing dmg too with the warwolves and we'll just ignore the vampiri for now), you're only looking at 90% thanks to the breastplate and helmet. What's stopping you from popping the pet right back out? Probably the same thing that stops a MM from producing a steady stream of upgraded pets. You can do it for a while but you're not going to be able to keep it up indefinitely.

No, the 'Untouchable' status would apply to the player. The thought was, the Breastplate and Shoulder/arm armor would grant 'untouchable' to the player to protect his HP and to the other armors to prevent them from absorbing certain damage types while the breastplate/shoulder is active.

Also, consider that once a piece of armor is destroyed, all other armors are vulnerable. I.e: You're fighting a MA scrapper type Longbow and he pummels your Breastplate with smashing attacks. Eventually, it crumbles. All subsequent smashing attacks will now do 100% of its damage to the player *and* the other armor pieces at the same time...and none of the others resist smashing.

Processing the idea, however broken it may be, such a set would have great advantage vs enemy types with varied damage types (think Outcasts, Circle of Thorns....uhhh Longbow...) because their damage would be mitigated across all the armor pieces. But vs enemies with concentrated damage types (Council, 5th Column, Warriors, etc) would eat the armor user quickly or foes with extraneous psionic and toxic damage like Arachnos.

Yeah, and don't forget who provided the base for that layout <_<

But it's arguable if a bodyguard system is or isn't 'broken' on an AT like Brute or Tanker. On MM, it's proved to be as effective as a Tanker who has far more HP and defenses than a little ol' MM...and the comments Sam brought up about split dmg not being enhanceable and wouldn't really scale up is also something to consider.

And that's why I said the Gauntlet pet (the one that provides the defense) would do so by placing it on the player. So it'd be like a defense toggle but in a clicky pet form with its own HP and can be destroyed if you don't properly keep maintenance of your other armor pieces.

Not impossible. Although the defense/ToHit check might need to be put on the player (having the pet simply give you defense like Sam said), but I've thought of a possible way using current mechanics (although it probably won't work).

Also, who ever said anything about Bodyguard mode on a SR character? Also, it sorta doesn't make sense how it's all that broken. If a scrapper pops Elude and never gets hit by ST attacks, no one takes damage anyway (except around 5-10% of the time). If AoE attacks start getting tossed about, the scrapper will dodge but everyone else will still get hit (or will the scrapper end up sharing *that* damage and ultimately nerf his own defense because he's taking damage everytime a teammate takes damage?).

Mock up I've been thinking of:
Breastplate pet = good smashing/lethal resist + 60% base HP (so the pets HP is calculated off your base)
Shoulder/arm guard pet = decent energy/neg energy/fire/cold resist + 45% base HP
Helmet pet = good psi resists + decent lethal/cold resist + 30% base HP
Gauntlet pet = melee/ranged defense to Base + 30% base HP (no resists)

Basically, attacking the player will result in attacking the player and all pets at once (think of it as Negative Bodyguard; rather than splitting the damage among the pets and yourself, everyone takes 100% of the effect).

But the Breastplate would grant a buff the player and other pets (3 mag of Untouchable to smashing and lethal...probably doesn't work like that but work with me...) and same for the Shoulder/arm for the dmg types it resists. The helmet would only provide the untouchable status for the dmg types it has to the player.

This would result in the breastplate taking all the smashing/lethal dmg first and the shoulder/arms take everything else except psi (which the helmet would take) and the debuffs and whatnot bounce off an untouchable entity. If the enemy manages to breech your armor (say, a psi user manages to melt your helmet with mind waves because that would be taking the damage in place of the other pets), the other armor will do little to protect you and will quickly be destroyed too.

The gauntlets will simply take damage when you get hit *if* no other armor is present to soak up the damage.

In layman's dumbed down terms: the breastplate will stop your ribs from being crushed or your organs punctured, the shoulders would soak up those scary cold, fire and energy attacks for you, the helmet while it can stop you from taking a bullet to the head is more to soak up the mind attacks and the gauntlets are used as shields to deflect melee and ranged attacks. Lose any of those pieces and all your armor, including yourself, are now vulnerable to that kind of attack.

I realize that...I was the one to suggest the armor pet/bodyguard mock up I was just proposing a more thematic angle to the idea. I always try to think of multiple ways to get to a possible solution primarily because one idea might not work...

Then what is the point of having 'pet armor' at all? Why not just defense/resist toggles or clicks? Basically, if we're going out of our way to add an esoteric mechanic like this to an armor set, what benefit does it gain from it? Similarly with Dual Blades, the combo mechanic is a bonus for stringing the attacks together in order for pure benefit for the limitation that they *must* be used in a predefined order and *must* connect.

As for the proposed set by Steampunkette with respect to Sam's thoughts on the armor taking its own damage; I feel the 'armor pets' shouldn't even grant the user defense or resists but attacks directed at the player will simply be redirected to the appropriate pet. The breastplate would protect the body from smashing and lethal so would take and resist such damage on its own. The gauntlets would be used to redirect and deflect melee and ranged attacks so roll vs those attacks to hit. The helmet would protect vs psi along with resisting mez.

So a smashing melee attack would check vs the gauntlets to hit. If it hits, it connects with the breastplate which resists some of its damage and takes the rest on chest 'armor pet's' HP. If the breastplate is destroyed, subsequent smashing damage would injure the player *AND* the other 'armor pets' instead of *only* on the breastplate.

Ultimately, it's about using the 'right' armor piece in the right fight rather than pile on all your armor and survive hell and highwater all the time.

PS: The super benefit would be that debuffs as additional effects would be directed on the pets and not the player. Persistent AoE debuffs, however, would still get through for obvious reasons.

Several things you run into with this suggestion:

-A 'fake HP' mechanic doesn't exist. How would this work, exactly? You do not explain if it's a separate HP bar, a recolored bar on top of your regular HP. How much damage does this take, exactly? How does it differentiate the toggles? (how does this mechanic know which armor piece is taking the damage? what resists what?)

-Variable recharge times. Do we have any examples of a power that recharges at two different rates? Or a means for the engine to tell if the armor was turned off, detoggled or broken?

-Gamers will game. If an armor is going to break, what's stopping the player from quickly turning it off and back on again to circumvent the 'armor break' penalty?

-Additional HP. Several things here. If the set just used +HP to simulate the 'fake HP', that throws regeneration into the mix. Also, there are caps. If, for instance, you've reached the HP cap with a combination of IOs, accolades and one or two of the toggles, this renders more +HP null and breaks the concept of the set. Especially considering a Stalker, half the +HP armor would do nothing.