Leandro

MTS remember the whole point of both Poser and Ragdoll is to make something that matches COH's movement *first*. There's plenty of time to make pretty and efficient code after that. I'd rather have something where I have to reset a bunch of times but I have exact control of everything, than to screw up something in the glNewList enumerations or the glPushMatrix/glPopMatrix hierarchy and not realize because I'm blaming the rotations. After it works, and it mimics exactly what COH does, fine, then I'll think about a prettier model and easier to understand code.

Right now what matters is the basics; if Poser can't get its own model to match the movements of the COH model exactly, it's poop; I can prettify the code all you want, and it'll still be polishing a poop.

Don't let me or Balshor stop you from making your own version, though, the more hands in the mess the more likely one of us will figure out how to do it properly.

What glRotatef does is rotate the drawing point itself. So every new object I draw will inherit all the previous objects until I call glLoadIdentity to "reset" the drawing point. So what I do is: draw lower torso, translate/rotate; draw upper torso, translate/rotate; draw head (head then inherits lower and upper torso translations and rotations). Reset drawing point, perform the translation and rotation for the lower and upper torso without drawing them, draw left upper arm, translate/rotate, draw lower arm (lower arm inherits lower torso, upper torso, upper arm). Reset drawing point again, same for the right arm branch. Reset view again, one leg. Reset drawing point again, the other leg.

It's not pretty in code and it ignores other tools available, but it gave me something that I couldn't get with the other, more "serious" rotation models: I got rid of that "drift" you see in Ragdoll where you rotate "left then up" 90 degrees, and the final result is not "left then up" 90 degrees, but more like 70 degrees left then 20 degrees up. Poser WILL perform a series of 90° rotations and have no "drift"... but the rotation order doesn't match what COH does all the time. It does "sometimes".

So at this point I'm thinking that some of the joints use a different rotation order: upper arm is fine with RYP, but lower arm maybe wants YPR. I will have to play with it a little.

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After a bit more thought, the arm movement you describe isn't really physically possible. Move your arm into the position described in the first step by bending your shoulder and elbow 90 degrees each. Now, rotate your ELBOW 90 degrees so your hand points to the ceiling. It can't be done. If you put a dot on your bicep and move your arm so your hand points to the ceiling, you can see that what you're really doing is rotating your shoulder 90 degrees along the axis of your upper arm.

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You're right. I fail at anatomy. Still, trying to arrive to that pose in that way has the same problem. Poser displays what I'd consider a "proper" rotation (it's the pose I expect to arrive at by rotating the upper arm 90/90/0 and the elbow 0/90/0), Ragdoll is still on a halfway-through pose, and COH renders something else completely:

http://s55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...tlz/poser3.jpg
http://s55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...z/ragdoll3.jpg
http://s55.photobucket.com/albums/g1.../poser3out.jpg

So, any idea how do we arrive to that pose (hand as if grabbing for a pole) in a way that renders the same with COH's engine and either yours or my rotation code? I'm thinking some joints may be interpreting pitch, yaw and roll in a different order, I will have to play with that a bit (though it'll probably lead to another smashed mouse).

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Hmm...after studying this example, I think that my rotation axes are correct, but there's something weird going on with the angles. Here's my current (incorrect) model:

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I scrapped the entire model I was using in favor of OpenGL's glRotatef API. I figured that's what COH uses. My rotations became more accurate indeed when using it... but it just isn't rotating second-level joints (elbows, knees) the way it should.

Grats on finally receiving (most of the) prize, Todd. Still absolutely nothing on my end (my last couple of emails went entirely ignored).

Hey Balshor, nice work. But it suffers from the same kind of posing problem (when compared to the COH engine) that made me throw the mouse against the wall and not touch Poser again.

Bend your elbow 90° front. Then your upper arm. Now your fist should be in front of you, at neck-height. Poser shows that fine, Ragdoll shows that fine:

http://s55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...tlz/poser1.jpg
http://s55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...z/ragdoll1.jpg
http://s55.photobucket.com/albums/g1.../poser1out.jpg
http://s55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...agdoll1out.jpg

Now, rotate your elbow 90° up. As if you were holding from a pole in the ceiling. It's a simple pose that any human can do, and that the COH engine renders fine. But both Poser and Ragdoll screw it up in different ways: Poser rotates the joint incorrectly (over its own axis) while Ragdoll rotates it about 80° upwards and 10° outwards.

http://s55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...tlz/poser2.jpg
http://s55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...z/ragdoll2.jpg
http://s55.photobucket.com/albums/g1.../poser2out.jpg
http://s55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...agdoll2out.jpg

That "halfway up and outwards" render happened to me a lot while I was still using the stick figure and it's why I dumped all that code and tried using OpenGL instead.

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PM Leandro. Maybe he'll share his code for the Poser program with you. You can see what he's done so far here.

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My code won't help him because I think he's coding in some java 3D addon, while I used OpenGL. Pure OpenGL can be messy (38 lines to draw one cube), so he's probably better off not looking at my mess.

Noted, Scuzz. By the way, did you already add these?

(Ghost dudes)
Revolutionary_Boss_01
Revolutionary_Boss_02
Revolutionary_Lieutenant_01
Revolutionary_Lieutenant_02
Revolutionary_Lieutenant_03
Revolutionary_Minion_01
Revolutionary_Minion_02
Revolutionary_Minion_03
Revolutionary_Minion_04

(Cimeroran Ghosts)
Roman_Ghost_Boss_Male_01
Roman_Ghost_Boss_Male_02
Roman_Ghost_Boss_Male_03
Roman_Ghost_Lieutenant_Female_01
Roman_Ghost_Lieutenant_Female_02
Roman_Ghost_Lieutenant_Female_03
Roman_Ghost_Lieutenant_Female_04
Roman_Ghost_Lieutenant_Male_01
Roman_Ghost_Lieutenant_Male_02
Roman_Ghost_Lieutenant_Male_03
Roman_Ghost_Lieutenant_Male_04
Roman_Ghost_Minion_Female_01
Roman_Ghost_Minion_Female_02
Roman_Ghost_Minion_Female_03
Roman_Ghost_Minion_Female_04
Roman_Ghost_Minion_Male_01
Roman_Ghost_Minion_Male_02
Roman_Ghost_Minion_Male_03
Roman_Ghost_Minion_Male_04
Roman_Ghost_Spartan_Minion_Male_01
Roman_Ghost_Spartan_Minion_Male_02
Roman_Ghost_Spartan_Minion_Male_03
Roman_Ghost_Spartan_Minion_Male_04

(Winged Cimerorans)
Roman_Minion_Female_01
Roman_Minion_Female_02
Roman_Minion_Female_03
Roman_Minion_Female_04

(Valkyrie costume promos)
Valkyrie_01
Valkyrie_02
Valkyrie_03
Valkyrie_04
Valkyrie_05
Valkyrie_06

(More ghosts)
Civil_War_Boss_01
Civil_War_Boss_02
Civil_War_Boss_03
Civil_War_Lieutenant_01
Civil_War_Lieutenant_02
Civil_War_Lieutenant_03
Civil_War_Minion_01
Civil_War_Minion_02
Civil_War_Minion_03
Civil_War_Minion_04
Civil_War_Minion_05
Civil_War_Minion_06
Civil_War_Minion_07
Civil_War_Minion_08

Do ragdoll posing, that way I can kill the CohPoser project for good and stop thinking about it.

Server: Freedom
Zone: Power of Illusion SG Base
Character name: Blazing Leo
Time: N/A
Location: "Empty" inspiration bin
Mission: N/A
Mission Contact: N/A
Bug Description: Moving an inspiration bin can DELETE ALL ITS CONTENTS.
Link to Forum Discussions: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...umber=12712537

Steps to reproduce:

1. Enter the SG base editor.
2. Move an inspiration bin with items from a room to another.
3. Look inside.

Result: sometimes, ALL the contents of the inspiration bin will be gone. I lost a bunch of ambrosia and presents. KidLazarus lost a bunch of tier 3 inspirations.

Server: Freedom
Zone: Power of Illusion SG Base
Character name: Blazing Leo
Time: N/A
Location: Wall at 80.3 8.0 -94.0
Mission: N/A
Mission Contact: N/A
Bug Description: You can "lose" storage items inside a wall and be unable to retrieve them.
Link to Forum Discussions: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...umber=12703463

Steps to reproduce:

1. Enter the SG base editor.
2. Pick any square in the floor, and use the elevation tool to "fill" it, raising it as if it were a wall.
3. Drag any storage item inside the wall. All the way in, embed the storage item inside the raised wall.

Result: you can't lower the wall to access the items you embedded. You also can't move the items you embedded out of the wall. You can use the "Current Room" button to confirm that they're there, but you can't even delete them because they have stuff inside. This leads to being unable to access the stored items, and being unable to delete the room, because you need to delete those storage items, and you can't reach them.

100 appears to be the limit. For the donut rain scene in Donuts, I spawned 90 donuts and moved them from the bottom of the frame to the top repeatedly, because spawning more caused them to dissapear.

[ QUOTE ]
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*Waves* I wasn't going to be back until later in the month, but this'll do :P

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I missed you, Leo! Still working on the poser?

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Balshor is working on adding what Poser did to his demo editor, so I've been comfortably lazy about not trying to hurt my brain any more with it.

*Waves* I wasn't going to be back until later in the month, but this'll do :P

Base Repricing
1) How will the repricing of bases affect you personally?

Quite a bit. My personal SG base has 20 million prestige, and with the repricing I will be able to expand considerably.

2) Will you dismantle your base to gain the additional prestige from the repricing?

No. I will only "upgrade" the plot to the same size (reclaiming the prestige spent in the plot) and upgrade items in rooms. Main reason why I won't be dismantling rooms is that I would lose the double doorways those rooms have; the current Test build has completely disabled the ability to place double doorways in a SG base.

3) How long would this process take you if you were to engage in this practice?

Several days, maybe a couple of weeks if I wanted the base to look just perfect.

4) What are the positive and negative concerns regarding repricing?

Positive: bases will be able to expand a lot. Rent will be negligible. Negative: well... there's no new items to expand WITH. Now more than ever it's time to add some stuff to the editor. Item intersection helps a bit, but there's only so much it can do.

5) How will this feature affect you long term and short term?

Long term, I will be able to expand my base a lot more quickly and much more than I expected to. Short term, not much. It's not the base feature that will affect me most; the removal of pathing rules is the main feature for bases this issue.

Base Salvage Exchange to Invention Salvage
1) What is the negative effect on your base for this feature implementation?

Salvage storage racks hold way too little. Just 30 pieces per rack is too low. Allowing base salvage to be turned into invention salvage has resulted in way too many people draining the market from base salvage in order to convert it to rare invention salvage when Issue 13 goes live. The conversion is also a very lengthy and boring process, especially when you have thousands of pieces in storage.

2) What is the positive effect on your base for this feature implementation?

Major ease of crafting. The old crafting system required hundreds of pieces refined into dozens of components for just an item; under the new system I just need four pieces to craft anything.

3) How long will it take you to adjust to learning this new system?

I already did, it's not that different from what we currently have.

4) What side effects to this system do you currently see from transitioning the old to new system?

Social: taking all the base salvage that the group contributed and converting it to invention salvage that can be sold to make a big profit for the individual in charge of base editing will create a lot of tension between supergroups where the base designer is seen as a greedy <bleep!>.

Salvage storage is too low, we won't be able to store Candy Canes or Halloween salvage as we used to.

5) What security concerns do you have regarding this change?

This is also a social problem; I trust every single person in my supergroup and I have bins full of IOs that I know nobody will touch. Supergroups that have an "open door" policy regarding storage will find themselves raided, but they knew it could happen, it shouldn't come as a surprise. Once i13 goes live, the ability to place base storage within walls provides added security, as only someone with edit permissions will be able to access those particular bins.

Additional Notes:

Please schedule time to re-enable the double doorway functionality as soon as possible. It's a feature that we currently have on Live and we're losing in i13.

Best of luck, Lighthouse. We'll keep the lamp lighted up for you.

[ QUOTE ]
And they haven't even said anything about whether this would be a possibility, they haven't answered a single 'tough' question in a while now - maybe they are over on the "new/beta forums" IDK?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope. The official word from the closed boards (posted by a redname on 10-23-2008, 4:50 PM) is this:

[ QUOTE ]
The repricing lowers the barrier to entry for new people to get into base building. It makes it easier for existing bases to be expanded and for people to do more stuff with bases. Existing bases should not be dismantled. If you really want to get that prestige back then go ahead, but no one is making you do it by simply lowering prices.

[/ QUOTE ]

Much like the PVP changes, the repricing is meant to help new SGs the most. Existing SGs can take advantage of it, but it won't be automatic.

I'm fine with it. I know others aren't. But at this point I don't think the official word is going to change, and I'd rather make the best out of it than give myself an ulcer.

[ QUOTE ]
So we have to craft them anew to take advantage of the new pricing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes (unless it's one of those items that hasn't had its price reduced, like telepads)

[ QUOTE ]
1) If an sg has a prestige total of 100 million prestige - and their base is worth 70 million prestige @ this time - Now when i13 comes - They sale everything in their base back and rebuild from the start - Will they have more than 100 million prestige or the same?

[/ QUOTE ]

The same. Total prestige won't change.

[ QUOTE ]
2) If a base editor currently has personal items - are those items still viable in i13 and if so - are they @ the old price or new price?

[/ QUOTE ]

They retain all personal items in their inventory at old prices.

If you want to generate screens like this:

http://s55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...r/poser045.png

Download the awfully incomplete program at http://cohposer.blogspot.com/ and enter your character's data in the file cohposer.ini (wherever you install it). Then pose the model, click which side view you want, click 'Save Demo', then 'Play Demo', and it'll automagically load COH and play your character's demo. It'll save it as cohposer.cohdemo in whatever folder you installed it in.

Any servers had any apocalypses besides the initial one yet?

[ QUOTE ]
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Voila!

[/ QUOTE ]
The URL you provided leaves everything to be desired.

[/ QUOTE ]

He meant this.

To get rid of the orange names and keep the chat bubbles, go through all the "NEW" lines and remove the character names. For example:

NEW "Doctor Leo"

becomes

NEW ""

Removing the names does not affect playback.

Level Up Games is on Brazil.

..."puedré"?
..."juegar"?
..."paella¡"?

/targetname Tormentoso
/powexecname Aim
/powexecname Build Up
/powexecname Throw Dictionary

Heh, you should page Sophism, not me; I'm in Argentina, and Level Up Games doesn't reach me (different language and currency). The distributor for my country is Edusoft, and they don't even show the game in their site.