Kruunch

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Are you still at it Coldmed? When are you going to learn your not cool because you have 23 level 50's and a 2 billion inf Fire tank? To me and most people who have jobs and girlfriends, you would be cool if you had 5 level 50's a 100 mil fire/fire tank that could tank anything in the game and a real life.

You know your really digging yourself a hole here. When I offered advice I was offering how to make a decent fire/fire with limited inf, sure it had Multi's and I had to over slot shields at the cost of BU/ FE slotting. But that’s what people who play 1 or 2 hours a day want, something they can make with limited money and still feel like a hero. Not some super pharming uber AE build that can kill 100000000000000 freaks meows.

You on the other hand need to comment on everyone’s build, saying everyone else is crap. Spouting your epeen PvP purples and putting all the new players down by calling them nubs . If you need to compensate maybe try doing something really impressive and get 700 content badges on one of your 23 characters.

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You had me nodding along until you mentioned "have a life" and 700 content badges in the same post.

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Here is mine.. works well...


Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Excalibur: Level 50 Technology Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Energy Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(3), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(3), ImpArm-ResDam(5)
Level 1: Barrage -- P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg(A), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/EndRdx(5)
Level 2: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(9), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(9), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Dct'dW-Heal(11), Dct'dW-Rchg(13)
Level 4: Energy Punch -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(13), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(15), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(7), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(7), LkGmblr-Def(50)
Level 8: Unyielding -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(19), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(19), ImpArm-ResDam(21), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(21)
Level 10: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 12: Kick -- Acc-I(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 16: Health -- Mrcl-Heal(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(43), Numna-Heal(43), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(43)
Level 18: Invincibility -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(45), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(46), LkGmblr-Def(46)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(23), EndMod-I(23)
Level 22: Whirling Hands -- C'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx(25), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(25), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(27), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(27), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29)
Level 24: Bone Smasher -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(31), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(31), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 26: Tough -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(33), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(33), ImpArm-ResDam(34)
Level 28: Tough Hide -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(29), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31), LkGmblr-Def(46)
Level 30: Resist Physical Damage -- ResDam-I(A)
Level 32: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(34), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(34), LkGmblr-Def(37)
Level 35: Energy Transfer -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(36), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(36), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(36), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37)
Level 38: Total Focus -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(39), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(39), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Unstoppable -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 44: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(45), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 47: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(48), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(48), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(48), Mocking-Rchg(50), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 49: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]<ul type="square">[*]5.5% Defense(Smashing)[*]5.5% Defense(Lethal)[*]6.13% Defense(Fire)[*]6.13% Defense(Cold)[*]3% Defense(Energy)[*]3% Defense(Negative)[*]8.63% Defense(Psionic)[*]4.25% Defense(Melee)[*]3% Defense(Ranged)[*]4.56% Defense(AoE)[*]8.55% Max End[*]73% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*]32.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*]4% Enhancement(Heal)[*]105.4 HP (5.63%) HitPoints[*]MezResist(Held) 2.75%[*]MezResist(Immobilize) 8.8%[*]MezResist(Terrorized) 2.2%[*]11% (0.18 End/sec) Recovery[*]70% (5.48 HP/sec) Regeneration[*]1.26% Resistance(Fire)[*]1.26% Resistance(Cold)[*]3.13% Resistance(Negative)[*]1.26% Resistance(Toxic)[*]11.3% Resistance(Psionic)[/list]
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This is close to my most recent build on my Inv/SS Tanker. He absolutely snores his way through ITF/STF/Rikti Raids/etc.

For Fire/Fire Tankers the following are decent sets to look into that provide defense:

Touch of Death (melee)
Obliteration (PBAOE recharge oriented) ... good for Consume
Multi-Strike (PBAEO end/acc oriented) ... good for Blazing Aura
Thunderstrike (ranged)
Positron's Blast (Targeted AOE) - good for overall stats (not a lot of defense for Targeted AOEs unless you're concerned with AOE defense).
Doctered Wounds (healing) good for Healing Flames for overall stats on a budget
Performance Shifter: Chance for Endurance (endMod) put an extra slot in Stamina and throw this in there to help take the bit out of end woes.
Steadfast Protection (resist) KB protection (don't need acrobatics anymore) and 3% global defense ... good set to stick in Plasma Shield or Temp Prot if you took it.

That should give you a good starting point for adding more defense to your Fire Tanker.

Good luck.

Question: how much do you have/want to spend on this guy?

My personal opinion is that this build is way overkill.

Just putting Tough/Weave on an Invuln Tanker with most of its primaries pretty much makes it capable of snoozing through most TFs in this game.

Adding Maneuvers is sort of like adding a hood bra on top of your Ahbrams Tank.

The set bonuses are also a lot of overkill, especially with Invuln. You're probably going to want to IO out more for +recovery and/or +maxEnd as that's the real hole (besides Psi) in an Invuln build.

Your attacks are underslotted and your defenses are overslotted. Even for a defensive build, going way over the soft cap for defense on a resist rich primary makes little sense.

If you want a "different" sort of defensive build, try looking at the AOE Fear in the Presence line (you can also pick up Provoke if making a team based taunt-bot is your goal).

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Basically, hes gotta be a badass-[censored] tanker..lol
I run him a LOT on ITF'sand LGTF's and have yet to run him on a STf or MoSTF. But great advice all around. keep it coming

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Almost any Invuln build that includes the majority of your primary and Tough/Weave can main tank most anything in the game (short of the psi hole) so you picked the right primary

P.S. - And that's not even getting into IOs.

How many merits is the TF worth?

Can Whirling Hands and Total Focus be used with Hover?

http://www.cohplanner.com/

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cause thats what the op is ASKING about...its not about you nub.

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He also said he has 25 mil influence ... he couldn't even get one of the rares for that much less the nonsense builds you're talking about.

It's not about you either.

*rolls eyes*

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Hey folks, been away a while, since issue 12, and even then I barely played around with Inventions having just returned to the game then as well. My question is, as a Fire/Fire Tank, are Inventions really worth having? How much of a boost would they add to my tanking mitigation and what not? I'm talking set bonuses, etc. From what I've seen they only seem to add minor bonuses and aren't Archetype makers or breakers. Am I wrong? Thanks ahead for any feedback.

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I can get up to around 30%+ defense (melee) pretty easily on Fire/Fire with set bonuses.

270 (at least for the Numinas)

This is the route I usually go for the rares as well.

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Kruunch: I suppose what I should have said was that Siphon Life isn't bad due to its redundancy with WP, rather, because crowd control ('mitigation') provides better returns. The catch being that CC offered from other sets doesn't work on all mobs (notably AVs/GMs, etc) while SL continues to function. (I disagree that the heal is superfluous - if used constantly, it functions as pseudo regen, which raises the immortality line of WP.)

Also, DM is not 2nd in line for AoE, I'd say that at least Mace, Axe, DB, and (possibly) Ice would be better. All of those have more AoEs than DM does (SD &amp; DC are utility powers that deal damage, not true AoE attacks). Don't get me wrong, I really like DM and Shadow Maul, but an AoE set it is not.

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G_tanker you said you saw a lot of WP tankers face plant on the 54 boss farm. Why do you think they face planted and how can you build a tanker to avoid that? Does WP suck at Tanking?

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direpsyche: WP is a solid set, one of the most well rounded available to Tankers. That said, its survivability will depend on the build and enemies (as with all sets). WP benefits greatly with Tough/Weave, the difference between having and not having those is day and night. Other build options with IOs involves +MaxHP and +def to make the biggest difference. (Regen is good too, but I think def is a better option for high stress situations.)

I don't know what enemies G_Tanker was up against, so I can't make any hypothesises as to why. At any rate, lucks are your friend, use them!

The biggest problem WP has is holding aggro due to RttC's taunt component being far weaker to other sets (~9% strength of most sets). It's why people strongly suggest taking Taunt and the liberal use of AoEs.

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DM as an AOE Set: Well I will have to say my experience with DM as an AOE buildat L50 comes from pairing it with Shields. AAO making Soul Drain and Dark Consumption actually worth while from a damage perspective (100 and 145 respectively) and of course Shield Charge and that build has a high amount of recharge which you'd need.

However my Fire/DM/Pyre Tanker is coming along and is defintely an AOE build as well (and in answer to Lord_Umbra's last question).

I haven't personally found too much in the game that mitigation when paired with my WP Tanker's regen can't handle and I tend to be on the extreme side of tanking (also in response to Lord_Umbra's questioning of what I tank). AV's and GM's (thus far) haven't put out enough damage on a single target basis to down my Tanker (although on the STF my guy does need a little support, but that's been my experience with almost every non-Stone on an STF) and on a pack basis, this amounts to the same (Tremor providing more then enough mitigation for my regen to catch up).

Unless you were talking about packs of AVs, which I haven't tried yet

Face Planting WP Tankers: 9/10 times these are poorly built and/or poorly schemed builds. Either without Tough/Weave (which a WP Tanker must have to group tank imo) and/or without some form of AOE mitigation (i.e. KD, Stuns, etc ...). I've seen WP/Fire Tankers with Tough/Weave face plant a bunch (this is from lack of mitigation in my estimation). I haven't actually seen a WP/DM Tanker in-game yet, but I'd imagine that it wouldn't be quite as squishy as WP/Fire (for the reasons Sarrate points out).

Also L54 boss farms plant most non-Stone, non-Invuln Tankers. By and large L54 boss farms are bad farms in my experience (takes too long to kill, even with a great kill team). L52 boss farms seem to be the pinnacle of boss farms for efficiency.

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when your close to 4 recovery you dont need it..just fyi

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This is like saying when you have a Ferrari you don't need to take the bus anymore.

For the 99.9% of the other Fire Tankers out there who don't have 4/s recovery, take Consume. You'll be glad you did.

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Steadfast has the nice def/res global, and a combination of two bumps recov 1.5%, a nice little addition to an end heavy primary especially if it's tripled in a build.

You might find that two -k/b io's offer a more desired result.

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/agree

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Ouch, no Consume? That's one of the nice perks to have as a Fire Tank, and you dropped it? At the very least, it's probably worth dropping the one extra slot of defense in Combat Jumping (it's getting you a whopping .5% defense) to slot in Stamina. As it stands, you're at 1.75% end recovery without Consume. My build that I posted earlier is at 2.01% when I have all my toggles running, and I still need Consume for drawn out fights. That doesn't happen too often, but it's nice to have when you need it.

And another ouch, and you're adding Hasten to that mix. If you can make it work, go ahead, but I like not having to worry about my endurance much when I'm running. Probably won't need Healing Flames much with that much defense, at least (unless you're fighting a mob that likes staying at range).

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/agree

Consume is one of the reasons Fire Armor works (not to mention it's a great place to stick a full Obliteration set and get that fatty defense bonus).

Also consume is an AOE ... so it just adds to your damage output.

I agree totally. Guides are a great starting point and/or source of information on things you may not have thought of.

I usually have to actually play a build before I genuinely know if the playstyle is going to suit me (which is also one of the reasons I really enjoy the quick levelling now ... not feeling like I'm stuck with a toon who didn't pan out the way I wanted) and I find guides not usually too informative in that regard (playstyle being so very subjective).

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Only thing that keeps me from playing EM: Stuns. I despise powers that stun. I hate having to follow guys around.

That, and I hate the colour pink. Can't explain why, but I actually hate the colour pink.

That said, I still have plans to play an /EM tanker at some point.

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I16 will allow us to remove that pink color. Though I'm not sure what color would look better there, heh (good thing I have awhile to decide). Anyway, you shouldn't have to run after stunned targets very much. It's not like earlier days where they could stagger off at sprint speeds (and jump up a building). They can move some now, but very slowly. I rarely have to move after a stunned target, and if I do, it's a matter of tapping the forward key. Tanks have to move quite a bit anyway, so it's not a big deal.

Really, the reliable stuns are a nice plus for EM. It's quite nice for my Ice Tank, so he doesn't have to have his defenses constantly challenged.

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Mobs can still stun-stagger at sprint like speeds. If they were running when they got stunned (either away from you or toward you) they will keep stagger away at the same speed.

This happens most when fighting large packs and stunning mobs who are repositioning themselves around you.

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If you can get your tank to 50 do you really need a guide?

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Apparently yes ... as evidenced by all the 50s asking for respec builds

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This sudden rash of "instant 50, just add MA" has been worrying me ever since issue 14 launched, however in the OP's defense there's a difference between looking for other opinions to maximize a build and the clueless "I don't know how to build my shiny new level 50 _____."

One is looking for ideas and approaches he may not have thought of while leveling up, the other just wants to skip straight to the ultimate build he has no idea how to play. I'll read thru guides on powersets and combinations I already have at 50, frequently the guide will make me look at a power or combination in a way I hadn't thought of while leveling.

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I agree. Ironically I find myself enjoying the MA system for just that purpose ... seing what works and what doesn't instead of having to rely on the theory crafter's logic (more times then not most opinions I see on these boards come from a theoretical standpoint vs. a practical one).

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once a WP tanker has both Tough and Weave, SoW becomes almost entirely redundant IME.

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Even with Tough/Weave I'd never drop SoW if only for two reasons:

*) Cimerorans
*) STF (herding the Patrons &amp; Recluse)

The ability to cap your s/l res is too powerful to pass up on for one power pick, to me. (Using it after getting unlucky with GW's hold has mildly helpful, too.)

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/agree 100%

Ironically the only build of a WP I can see without SoW is one without Tough/Weave as well, which is the solo Scranker build.

*EDIT* SoW becomes much more situational with Tough/Weave then it is normally, so in that regard I could see it being skipped in favor of another power ... I personally find that the situations come up far more often then not, so I like to keep SoW.

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1) Dark Melee has redundant tools when paired with WP such as Siphon Life (healing) and Dark Consumption (endurance recovery).

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Not to be contrary, but I cannot agree with your assessment of SL at all. It would akin to saying "don't pickup Weave on an Invuln because it already has defense." Just because WP has regen doesn't mean SL is redundant. One of WP's weaknesses is not having any reactionary powers (outside of SoW) to bail it out in a tight spot; SL is an answer to that. (Over time, it can be just as strong or stronger than Reconstruction-like powers.)

As you add more mitigation (Tough, Weave, IOs, etc) the effects of SL become more pronounced. Another benefit of SL is that it's one of the few powers with a secondary effect that works against AVs (and other control resistant enemies).

I know you didn't say it was a useless power, but I'm not seeing any redundancy issues from it. (That was all I was trying to explain by the above.)


The biggest problem with the DM pairing for WP, to me, is its lack of real AoEs to help hold aggro on teams.

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I understand where you're coming from and you're correct to a point. However (and you should love this) I think you'd get more mileage out of Tremor/Fault then Siphon Life when combined with a WP build (and considering WPs huge regen factor). The upside to Siphon Life in a WP build being you can slot for strictly melee, as opposed to other builds where you might be looking to slot Sihon Life with heals and/or frankenslot the heck out of it (removing decent set bonuses).

In other words, Siphon Life's heal aspect is more superfluous in a WP build then in other builds that aren't regen focused (but superfluous in and of itself).

I run a Fire/DM/Pyre Tanker (newest Tanker project) and I don't get near the same value out of Siphon Life that I do in my SD/DM Tanker, simply because Healing Flames makes Siphon Life redundant (mind you I'm not saying not useful ... just not useful as often (triple negative? my English professor just groaned)).

In my estimation the 600%+ regen from WP &gt; Healing Flames. In that scenario making the healing aspect of Siphon Life that much more redundant.

WP needs the mitigation more then the bail out powers (mitigation mitigating the need for bail out powers here) and in a situational tight spot that's what inspirations are for.

In my mind DM thrives in builds that don't need as heavy a mitigation as the more squishy (out of the box) Tanker sets such as Stone, Invuln and SD (SD due to its particular makeup).

Finally, if you build your */DM Tanker well it's the second best AOE secondary there is (Shadow Maul, Soul Drain and Dark Consumption) although I agree that due to the longish recharges of SD and DC, it needs another AOE filler (either from APPs or the primary).

*EDIT* Keep in mind that the OP is asking for the "best" secondaries to pair with WP ("best" being subjective of course). In that regard I like the mitigation heavy secondaries over the ligher mitigation ones. Otherwise all of the secondaries will "work" with WP to a greater or lesser degree of efficiency.

Yeah yeah yeah I'll drag out the Cecille B. Demille and post something up tonight.

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If you can get your tank to 50 do you really need a guide?

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Apparently yes ... as evidenced by all the 50s asking for respec builds

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I evaluated the several secondaries available from a team tanking perspective in this guide.

Personally, I really like Willpower/Dark Melee to make a character with plenty of utility that can be quite hard to take down. Stone, Axe, Mace, Super Strength are all pretty good performers solo or teamed.

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I wouldn't suggest Dark Melee for a WP build. Here are some of the reasons:

1) Dark Melee has redundant tools when paired with WP such as Siphon Life (healing) and Dark Consumption (endurance recovery).

2) Dark Melee is mitigation light, it's only "real" mitigation being single target powers such as Touch of Fear (which is usually skipped) and Midnight Grasp (if you can call a single target immobilize "mitigation"). DM's toHit debuff, while a nice addition to WP, is a fairly slippery one and reactive (i.e. you have to get your hits off for it to apply).

3) WP has no attacks in it ... without supplementing DM's long AOEs with another AOE, it plays like a gimpy single target set (which is why it has the undeserved stigma of being a "weak" set). You can go the Pyre route, but again you have lack of mitigation and you will have a hard time building a sustainable WP Tanker by having Tough/Weave and then fitting in Pyre on top of that.

For WP I suggest something with AOE physical mitigation ( knockdown, stun, etc ...). Stone, SS, WM and Battle Axe make very good secondary combinations with WP (I run a WP/Stone myself and it operates very well, although I might have gone War Mace instead in hindsight).

*EDIT* These suggestions are based on not "gimping" yourself for team play. Solo-wise any combination will work fine and I'd proably go the WP/Fire/Pyre or WP/SS/Pyre just to be a damage machine if soloing were my only concern.

I suggest the Blessing of the Zephyr if you can afford it as you can put it in a travel power (i.e. doesn't waste a slot).