KnightofKhonsu

Well there's Brickstown and Founder Falls that cover both 30 through 40 levels.

This. You are spot on. No matter what people think of Statesman, he is the hallmark on what it means to be a Superhero. His reactions and actions in response to his daughter's death keep within his established character. I, for one, am thankful that the Devs did not have him go off half-cocked and begin a systematic war of vengeance as some suggested he should do.

Hmm...I think Ghost Widow would be bit upset about that prospect.

You said in your expectations:

To which I replied:

As a direct example of what you spoke of.

Like jumping into the middle of 24 Vampryi dishing out hate, pain, and discontentment as I did last night during our Moonfire TF waiting for the group to catch up? Thought I would face plant until our lead defender filed in behind me and healed me. In the end, the rest of the team showed up to take them out with me. Much fun was had by all.

Oh, I really like that suggestion!

I noticed that every time I used ET, I lost 138 HP when I hit. I didn't lose it if I missed, which was nice. However, I was thoroughly pleased with the results ET delivered.

I wish. However, Granite is not a GM. You're thinking about Quarry. I'm not sure if Repel would work against a GM. If you can knockdown a GM, it stands to reason you should be able to repel one too. I guess I'll have to wait and see if it is possible.

Great, that's what I was looking for. My concern was it drained a large amount of HP to do the superior damage. This makes it easier for me now. I'll select it next. On another but similar topic, my Kin/DP Defender didn't select Repel because it burned up endurance for every person repelled. I decided to take it after reaching in my upper 40s since I'm not using any Epic powers. I'm glad I did. Nothing funnier than to watch a Granit or AV go flying away from my toon. It's comical! lol. Thanks again.

Well that just plain sucks. I can't get anymore buffs than I had, including those given by our Defender & Troller...my tanker is a lvl 32 that was parading around like a plain ole lvl 50 without incarnate abilities. She was a true lvl 54. Although she is high as she is, I was able to keep her attention from the others until she face planted on 3 different occasions. When she alpha'd me the first time, I pissed her off! lol Oh and every time I taunted her she suffered psi damage! Got to love Perfect Zinger.

This is why I always make it a point to slot the entire set of a Taunt set like 'Perfect Zinger' in my taunt power. Range is included in two of the 6 enhancements, and every little bit helps.

Hey, shouldn't that read: "Three Words: Go Kill Skuls," instead?

Do not feel bad, you're not the only one. I experienced the exact same thing with my Stone/TW Tanker. However, after some discussion with other Tankers here and on Freedom, I loaded up with 'Perfect Zinger' in 2 of my attacks (Titan Sweep & Follow Up, including Taunt.) It improved my performance for aggro management. However, if on a team with a brute or scrapper using TW, I still have a problem keeping them on me if the other ATs are close by. This might change when I can finally done 'Granit Armor.' At least I am hoping so. Slot taunt enhancements in a few of your attack powers and see if that does not help you. It did for me.

I'll give you an example why I believe this is true.

A SG member and I joined a team to do part 4 of 'Who will die.' I was running my Kin/DP defender. Leading the group was as WM/SD brute. Alternatively, there was another brute Broad sword/SD, dual sword scrapper, katana scrapper, 2 controllers healers, 1 earth/emp, the other ice/kin, and a blaster energy/energy. After the initial contact with the nut job in shackles, we had to "turn off the music." The only thing turned off was our lights. None of the brutes could make a dent in the bad guys. Likewise, the rest were getting all the aggro for their efforts. After our second failed attempt, I said, 'I can get my tanker if you want.' In unison, all said, yes.

With my tanker (SD/WH) in the team, we started again. The brutes allowed me to lead the charge. I told the rest to target through me if they want. This time, only the brutes were face planted on more than one occasion; however, we had far better results when the smoke cleared. In the end, we were victorious. While I may not have taken down as many as the brutes, I was able to survive all the attacks directed at me, instead of them being directed at everyone else. The brutes and scrappers were receiving a lot more healing than I needed judging by their heath indicator in the team window.

Does one mish make this true? Certainly not; however, it is indicative of the Tanker SD/WH AT in comparison to a Brute equipped the same or similarly equipped. I've witnessed this with this tanker in play numerous times. I've seen the opposite when a brute equipped with either wp/tw or invul/tw and my tanker equipped stone/tw. Currently, my stone/tw tanker is on hiatus while I enjoy my Elect/Energy tank for a while.

In the end, I'd take a SD/WH Tanker over a WH/SD Brute because the performance is far better with the Tanker than the brute in this instance. In my opinion of course; however, an opinion formed after witnessing the two in battle on numerous occasions.

Gammos, I recommend the Tank AT. I have a SD/WM tanker. I absolutely love him. At first, I struggled with him because of how slow he was and the amount of endurance he consumed. This was my first SD/WM tanker. A friend helped me out by suggesting adding one or two end enhancements. Every toggle power I have at least two-endurance enhancement types (Set or standard). Now, at 30 lvl, end is no longer an issue, speed of attack no longer bothers me as each strike I hit with is a monstrous strike.

On a side note, I started a new Elect Def/Energy tanker in replacing a Elect/TW. I followed the same track for end management and it is getting better as I level up. I took part in my SG storyline mish to save Statesman, my Tanker is lvl 27, and I stood toe to toe with Tyrant/Coleman and never batted an eye at end. Took his best shots and he couldn't put me down. Funny thing is, I am only using standard IOs. Haven't slotted any sets yet. I cannot wait to see what this Tank will be like when I reach 50 with IO sets in place. I think this one will be more impressive than my 50+3 Brute WP/SS.

First, I never, ever, ever said a Tanker should do MORE damage than the scrappers, brutes, or stalkers. I said and I quote, "A tanker should have the same damage capability as a brute without the influence of fury or toggled rage."

Second, there will always be an incentive for the scrapper, brute, and stalker simply because they can deliver far greater damage in a much quicker time than a tank. Tank has a certain role to fill. However, the brute now has bumped the tanker out of the role. Simply because a brute can do the exact same thing as a tanker with better performance in damage, aggro generation, and melee control. Or are you going to say that is not the case?

Obviously, you did not read exactly what I said. That’s par for the course here on this message board. What part of that states to do more damage than the three you mention? It doesn't. You are manipulating what I am saying taking it completely out of context in an attempt to askew the discussion and discredit what I am saying. Kindly stop. It is clear to me that your position is untenable as it is a straw man argument.

There is no imbalance between the Tanker and the others when you increase their damage capability. There is an imbalance now between the Tanker and the rest regarding damage and taunting/threat levels. The brute and scrapper survivability can rival a tank with the properly slotted enhancements. I know, I've done it with my own Brute. Compared to the other melee specialists, the Tanker is a slow moving, slow attacking, and damage absorbing AT who cannot deliver enough damage to compete with the Scrapper, Brute, or Stalker for that matter in dropping critters in a resonable time.

Furthermore, you say it is not broke? Wrong. Its broken. If it wasn't we would not be having this type of discussion. If it wasn't broke, I'd not have said a word about it. Because I have a number of years of experience in game design and development, am I capable of identifying when something is wrong within a game's mechanics. Results speak volumes. Moreover, when you look at the numbers, then you see why results are what they are.

Two things need addressing, tanker's damage capability and threat/taunting aura. If not, you'll see more and more brutes running around than tankers simply because they can do more damage, better threat/taunting, and the ability to survive nearly as good as a tank.

Finally, you never answered my question of where is the incentive to run a tank when a Brute can outperform a tank in a team setting at every turn?

No, a Tanker should not have the lowest damage ability in the game. If that is the case, then the tanker is truly useless when teamed up with scrappers and brutes. What is the incentive for using a tanker in a team loaded with melee specialists who by themselves generate more damage and aggro that a lone tanker can? There really isn't any. The tanker will end up critter chasing.

While a tanker may be the highest survivable, a brute's ability to generate the incredible amount of damage it does, offsets its own lesser survivability to that of a tank. A brute can kill off its enemies fast than they can hurt him/her. I know, I do it all the time, even against lvl 54 enemies.


Opinions are like rectal openings, everyone has one and they stink, including mine. However, your pronouncement does not make the problem go away. You can turn your head, refuse to see the problem, and refuse to accept it all you want. In the end, it will still be there.

Truth be known, it’s getting to the place where tankers are becoming scarce and brutes more plentiful. Gee, I wonder why.

Really? Then explain to me, if a tanker has all this control you so proudly put forth, how a brute can pull off any number of foes while engaged in battle. Based on what the Tanker is supposed to be, that should never happen.

This was happening to me for three days straight until I was forced to replace all my standard IOs with specially designed IO sets. I've spoke of this before. Matter of fact, I stood 15' away from our leader, a brute, when he stripped me of all my enemies. He didn't use taunt, he just entered my area and all of them turned to him. When he was being overwhelmed, no matter how many times I toggled my taught, they stayed with him. When I attacked them from behind, none turned around to face me. You say there is nothing wrong with a Tanker and his ability to control aggro? As the lone tank in a team or by himself, you are correct. However in a team with a brute, forget it. The brute takes complete control. You cannot tell me that doesn't happen, because it does. Not only did I recognize this problem, my teammates, 2 of which I routinely adventure with, did too.

I want to see the dev improve the tanker's aggro control again and increase their damage potiential to offset where the brute's abilities have reduced the tanker's roll in a team.

Make the tanker superior to all in generating and controlling aggro, take their threat level and increased when part of a team. This can be associated with increasing their damage potiential to that of a brute's without the influence of fury or toggling rage.

At no point should a lone AT be able to lure enemies out from beneath a tanker's taught aura. The single acception that another tanker can do it.

I don't have a problem with a brute generating aggro or controlling melee. I have one that I love playing. However, at no point should a brute be able to wrest control of aggro from a tanker, ever.

Case in point. Here's what Aett said to me about the difference between a Tanker and Brute when it comes to threat generation and aggro.

This has rendered a Tanker nearly obsolete, a third wheel if you would when a Brute is in the same team with a Tanker. The Tanker is no longer the melee controller through threat generation or aggro control. The numbers do not lie and I do not believe Aett_Thorn would manipulate them either.

Your assertion that Tankers are doing just fine and do not require any changes is dead wrong.