Kinslayer_

LMAO.

Is it only me who finds this highly amusing.

"We know it's broke but we're going to leave the bug on because we made stalkers too powerful in PvP and having duff code in there evens the playing field a bit"

The version of Hero Builder HERE has patron sets in.

First off, is it a PvP, PvE or mixed build?

Infrigidate - Great power and works well 'out of the box' with quick recharge and great stacking. For PvE, go 1 ACC, and up to 3 recharge with an end reduction if you can spare it. For PvP, an extra ACC in there. I certainly wouldn't put a slow in as Cold has more than enough slows not to need it. My PvP Ice/Ice has it slotted 2 ACC, 3 recharge and 1 end reduction.

Frostwork - There's been a few debates on this in that it doesn't seem to do exactly what it suggests and the Heals in it may not be needed. Only problem here is I don't think anyone has actually got round to testing it but there was a post in this forum about it somewhere. You certainly need recharge in it

Arctic Fog - I don't know many who have slotted anything other than end reductions in this. I did have it slotted with defbuffs but found it didn't really make a huge difference.

Patron wise, Scirroco may be pretty much compulsory

The Ice set chews through ridiculous end and getting to Heat Loss/Power Sink was a real struggle and it really does need both end buffs to function to it's fullest.

You may also want to drop Glacial Shield if there are other powers you want to fit in. Ice Shields smash/lethal DEF and fire/cold RES are nice but the only other thing Glacial gives you is Energy DEF so does seem like a bit of an extravagant pick and is why I skipped it.

There's links here to several other Ice build posts and there's pretty good info in all of them and they've all helped me with my build.

Ice/Ice PvP
Ice/Cold PvP/PvE

Just out of interest, why Rad/Ice? I know Ice/Ice(slow stacking from primary and secondary) and Ice/Rad(slows and debuffs) are great but the Radiation Blast set is one of the weaker ones out there damage wise, lacking the damage of fire blast or the stupidly useful hold of Ice Blast?

You're not actually allowed to raid another base during your own raid window and if none of you are online, they do get free reign to trash the base.

However, it's not quite as catastrophic as it sounds as I think the attackers automatically win if there has not been a single defender in the base for a set period of time. 10 minutes seems to ring a bell and since the HP/DEF changes to base items, that's actually not long for them to trash stuff(it took 3 brutes over 10 minutes to destroy the basic generator in tests)

I could be wrong there though and it may be the defenders who win if there's not been an attacker in the base for a certain amount of time.

I do have all the win conditions on my PC somewhere in a FAQ I wrote so will dig them out and double check

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I'd say that there are many more than 12 SGs able to do it.

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Aye, thats why in my opening paragraph I said there were a lot of bases who could meet basic raid requirements but probably only a dozen or so who are actually capable of successfully raiding(i.e having the defences, number of PvP players, raid experience, etc) and not getting torn apart in any IoP raid.

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if you raid the cathedral, you get what it drops. No choice.

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I've run this twice on test now and on both occasions we got to choose which type of IoP we placed when editing the base after the TF(There was also no high prestige reward on completion as had been rumoured)

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My opinion is that hostile raids won't be too common. But that a couple of hard-PvPers' SG will take the occasion to kick every butts they can.

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That's the point I was trying to make. If only a few VG's are going to open themselves up to raids, the chances of you being able to raid are very slim given the number of raid windows there are in a single week and the small number of groups that are likely to actually have raid windows open. In short, getting all your SG together and hoping a group has their raid window set for that time is going to be like finding a needle in a haystack.

In other words, the serious raid groups are going to try and run a raid and get told the majority of the time that there isn't a VG/SG with their raid window open at that time.

As for 'unfair' raiding. Unless there's griefing or other swearing going on during the actual raid, I don't see what you can petition the GM's about. Trashing every single item in another groups base is not griefing. It may not be very nice but it's also very sensible as you're essentially destroying things which will hopefully stop them being able to raid you back for a long time as they try to get the prestige/salvage to replace them.

OK, CoP is on test and should go live soon so a lot of SG/VG's have the decision to make when they fix the raid system of whether or not to raid and risk their base items. There's a few points for discussion i'd like to raise and see what people's views on them are.

How Many Bases Can Actually Raid?

Looking at the prestige earnings on Union, there are a lot of groups that have the cash to meet the bare minimum requirements but i'd say there are only a dozen or so really capable of or probably thinking about doing raids.

If They All Do The CoP, Then There Will Be No Base Raids!

Yup. Let's say there are 12 SG's capable of raiding. As soon as the very easy trial goes live, they all run out and do it and get their IoP. Now that they all have an IoP, they can't raid another base and take their IoP as the number you can have is limited by plot size so you won't be allowed to raid(I can't remember exactly but I think the next plot up to allow two IoP's was pretty damn expensive so probably only a couple of groups capable of that).

Unless you have an available place for an IOP, you can't raid someone for their IoP

IMO, I can see two things happening, a raid SG decides they are not going to risk their base and ignore the CoP altogether or they decide they are going to raid so do the TF. I don't see many SG's deciding they want to raid but would prefer to steal another groups IoP when it's 10 times easier to do the TF itself and get to choose which IoP you place.

Raid Windows

OK, IIRC, these are two hours long and you have to set two of them for a week. Twelve 2 hour blocks in a day, 7 days a week equals 84 raid windows. If there are a dozen serious raid SG's on Union that means you could have a maximum of 24 raid window slots where there is actually a group flagged for you to raid and thats' only if a couple of SG's don't pick the same window.

Oh, I also forgot to mention that if all 24 are flagged, that means there are no serious raid capable SG's about to do the raid as they all already have their IoP.

Now, I realise my figures of how many SG's will/won't raid and are capable of raiding are just guesses but I also think they're reasonable estimates. Given that, does anyone think we'll ever actually see any raids take place?

It will also be interesting to see if people set raid windows for the times no one is going to be online or for the times everyone is going to be online. Do you set it in the early hours of the morning so you should never get raided or do you set it at peak time so you could get raided lots but will have plenty of people to defend?

How Many Times Can You Raid?

OK, Precision Rangers decide to raid at 17.00 on Monday because it's more fun to get an IoP through a raid than CoP TF. They get lucky and there actually is a group to raid in the form of EVIL and the raid happens. The EVIL guys drop what they're doing, quit their TF's, respecs, timed missions(that's going to be annoying) and come rushing to base. They defend successfully and the PR's are thwarted. Yay!

PR's decide they want their IoP no matter what so as soon as the raid is over, they try another raid in the next window and get another SG to raid, rinse and repeat.(given that the number of windows available show how hard it will be to find one SG, let alone two in a row, those PR's have just shown themself to be jammy so and so's )

Does it look like there is going to be any limit on how many times you can raid, say once every 24 hours? I've seen no evidence of it so far.

Can Anyone Else See Hostile IoP Raids Happening Or Will People Stick To Friendly Raids?

Looking at all of the above, I just don't see many raids happening and a lot of people i've spoken to think the same as well. What about everyone else, will IoP raids ever become common or are there just too many deterents and obstacles to them actually happening?

The other problem is that the person completing the mission only knows what percentage their mission has added. i.e.

"Villain X has completed a mission. Villains have a 5% damage increase"

What it doesn't tell you is that there was already a 5% increase in effect because villain Z had completed a mission just before you entered so the buff is actually 10%.

The other thing that i'm not sure of is exactly how long the buff lasts. Does a damage buff from a mission last forever(or until the other side do a damage debuff mission) unless there's a server reset? Does it only last until one side wins the zone?

A little more transparency on the mechanics of it would be nice from the Dev's. Then again, like other game mechancis, maybe they don't want to publish how it works as they know once the players start looking at it we'll find the bugs that are so far hidden by our ignorance

lol, I think I know exactly who the brute is and if the apalling spelling of his name didn't give it away a quick look at his search comment may have

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Not many people interested in this strike force these days it seems.

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Pretty much. After the amount of drop outs on the last one I organised and the fact so many people who signed up didn't even bother turning up(5 no show out of 8 was pretty damn poor), i've given up organsing them on the forums and stick to our weekly SG only one.

It's a pretty sad state of affairs that the SF is now only being completed by certain SG's after the first runs were so public and open to anyone but I think the response to this thread has unfortunately shown why that's the case

Here's the build I went for if it's any help

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
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Name: Crimson Vengeance
Level: 50
Archetype: Scrapper
Primary: Broad Sword
Secondary: Regeneration
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01) --> Hack==> Acc(1) Acc(3) Dmg(7) Dmg(19) Dmg(33) EndRdx(37)
01) --> Fast Healing==> Heal(1) Heal(3) Heal(21)
02) --> Slice==> Acc(2) Acc(5) Dmg(7) Dmg(19) Dmg(33) EndRdx(37)
04) --> Quick Recovery==> EndMod(4) EndMod(5) EndMod(21)
06) --> Build Up==> Rechg(6) Rechg(15) Rechg(15) TH_Buf(43) TH_Buf(43) TH_Buf(46)
08) --> Reconstruction==> Rechg(8) Rechg(9) Rechg(9) Heal(25) Heal(25) Heal(29)
10) --> Dull Pain==> Rechg(10) Rechg(11) Rechg(11) Heal(23) Heal(23) Heal(29)
12) --> Hasten==> Rechg(12) Rechg(13) Rechg(13)
14) --> Super Speed==> EndRdx(14)
16) --> Integration==> Heal(16) Heal(17) Heal(17) EndRdx(27) EndRdx(27)
18) --> Hurdle==> Jump(18) Jump(39) Jump(39)
20) --> Swift==> Run(20)
22) --> Stamina==> EndMod(22) EndMod(34) EndMod(34)
24) --> Combat Jumping==> Jump(24) Jump(40) Jump(40)
26) --> Resilience==> DmgRes(26)
28) --> Instant Healing==> Rechg(28) Rechg(40) Rechg(45) Heal(46) Heal(46) Heal(48)
30) --> Disembowel==> Acc(30) Acc(31) Dmg(31) Dmg(31) Dmg(33) EndRdx(37)
32) --> Head Splitter==> Acc(32) Acc(34) Dmg(36) Dmg(36) Dmg(36) EndRdx(39)
35) --> Super Jump==> EndRdx(35)
38) --> Assault==> EndRdx(38)
41) --> Focused Accuracy==> EndRdx(41) EndRdx(42) EndRdx(42) TH_Buf(42) TH_Buf(43)
44) --> Tactics==> EndRdx(44) EndRdx(45) EndRdx(45)
47) --> Laser Beam Eyes==> Acc(47) Acc(48) Dmg(48) Dmg(50) Dmg(50)
49) --> Confront==> Rechg(49) Rechg(50)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Run(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Acc(1)
01) --> Critical Hit==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Rechg(2)
---------------------------------------------

The main weakness in it is that it's light on attacks so getting a chain up is a littl difficult but the first round of attacks can take a lot of toons out anyway.

OK, i'll be looking to hit the test server around 17.00 to set up an SG and raid ready base.

Those of you who are coming, make sure to mention it to anyone who doesn't look on the forums.

Not sure as we only done it with heroes. There is a possibility that hide may still be useful but I know the enemies in the hero run were seeing threough superior invisibility with no problem.

Hopefully the dev's realise how much this would impair stalkers and have made it so they can't see through hide and I will try to test it before we do the run.

There's a sign up thread HERE for any interested

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Shouldnt this thread be on test server forum, because you can combine people from both servers for the run?

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Defiant players are more than welcome to sign up but I didn't put on the test server because it's one of the least visited threads. I did think about putting it in general discussion but everything there tends to get spamjacked

However, you're not invited Hammerfall for those damn total focus stuns and kills you kept inflicting on during squished on Sunday

(i'll go stick a post on Defiant linking to here and blatantly break the no cross posting rules!)

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It's been done in 15 minutes.

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Very different beast now.

I should be around I can bring Total Inertia Ice/Kinetics Corruptor

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Aye. 15 minutes is an exaggeration, it took us 45 and the 15 is just a chinese whisper but that's when the 'objectives'(without too many spoilers) were bugged and could be taken down seperately.

They now have to be taken together within a time limit. We were taking 10 minutes to take down one with all 24 heroes working together, trying to do the same in 4 seperate groups is going to be bloody tough.

Forgot to mention it will be tough for stalkers as hide is useless. Thermals/healers especially welcome and AoE hold doms will also be nice!

With the CoP finally making it onto test, i'm going to be organising a villain run at it this weekend, 18.00 Saturday.

Anyone who has test and wants to join, please sign up here with lvl/at/powersets. A note on if you have fly/TP/TP friend will be welcome as well.

Level 45+ will get preference over others unfortunately as i've done the hero version and it was damn tough.

Meh, my main PvP toon eats end like no tomorrow and is squishie with no buffs or heals.

You'll find most of the serious PvP'ers out there avoid the so called uber builds a lot of the time and it's only the ego's or noobs who turn up to zones with nothing but the best/FOTM toons.

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A couple of ideas if you want to make the CoP and don't want to be raided after it :

- screw it ! Just don't get back with an IoP.
- arrange a "friendly raid" with a SG leader you trust. You do the trial, he gets the IoP.

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It doesn't work like that. If you complete the TF, you are open to raiding. It's not optional that you can do the TF and just choose at the end not to take the IoP and prevent yourself being raided.

You don't get to pick who raids you. If someone wants to raid, it randomly assigns them a base to raid from the list of groups who have their raid window set to that period.

Even if you could manipulate the raid windows or got lucky and was sent against the SG you wanted, you've still got to find another SG who are willing to take the IoP and open their SG up to raids and the sort of damage you're trying to avoid.

1 - No. It's due 'soon', then again, it was due 'soon' when CoV launched a year ago. Last official word was that it should make it into the game as a patch before I8. Aparently, it's not the TF that is causing the problems but the actual IoP raid system so the answer for the time being is to release the TF and disable the raid system until it's fixed. A raid ready base is all you need to do it.(it has been on test a couple of times and a few of us have completed it on there)

2 - Looking at some of the ones on the test server, you can get small % damage bonuses, % XP bonuses, mez protection. They do all seem to be quite low numbers so not sure one IoP will make a huge difference but that may change.

3 - Not 100% sure. I've not read or seen anywhere official that you keep the prestige which is why so many people are dubious about them. Your items get destroyed, they're gone along with the salvage and prestige from everything that's been published on it so far. There is a chance to recover stuff at the end of the raids which can be boosted with base items and there is, supposedly, a big prestige bonus on completing the TF.

4 - You can do it during the 'base disabled' phase while they fix it but if you complete the IoP TF after it's all fixed, you HAVE to be raided until you lose the IoP.

Before I7, I would NOT have been interested in doing it, because of the prestige/base items at risk. Since I7, my opinion has changed slightly as it's now damn hard to destroy base items. Is the IoP worth it? Not from what i've seen but I would like to do the content involved.

My answer may well be just to get all my SG together and do it on test. With the 36million prestige on test you can build an IoP TF base, run the TF and enjoy it without worrying about your hard work being destroyed

But the sign up thread makes it quite clear they need the correct number of team to sign up first THEN times/dates will be discussed that are suitable for all.

OK, seeing as how so many people said this was a good idea and would want to take part, so many in fact that it was changed from Union only to both servers meaning a hell of a lot more work involved, how comes we only have one team actually signed up so far?

On a forum where there is an active thread calling for more PvP'ers, you do wonder why people bother when those who say "Yeah, great. Let's do it" then either don't sign up or sign up and don't actually turn up on the night.

Given that the Union sign up thread has had 100 views already, surely there should be more than one team signed up by now?

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That's why it's important for regular PvP-ers to act correctly at all times

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But most of us do and that's clearly not enough. Personally, I take a more hard line approach and if i'm in a PvP zone and someone in my team starts /b verbals with the opposition or using dirty tactics like Mob TP'ing I explain politely to them that I don't want to be part of that behaviour and ask them to stop. If they don't, i'll remove them from the team. Just because it may be working to my sides favour or not against me, doesn't mean I will ignore or condone it.

Too many times you see some of the more well respected PvP'ers teaming with those who are universally reviled just because they want to win. If everyone was more intolerant of their behaviour rather than turning a blind eye, it would soon make them change.

Give me a novice PvP'er with a good attitude over an excellent PvP'er who griefs any day of the week.

More importantly though, they need a stronger GM presence in the zones. I get sick of going in and seeing broadcast insults when a GM checking into the various PvP zones at random, say once an hour, for 5 minutes at a time would soon see the insults drop as long as they took action immediately.

GM comes in, sees people being abusive over broadcast and uses a mod power to kick them from the zone and lock them out of PvP zones for an hour. No need for petitions that we never seem to see having any effect but a tangible on the spot punishment would soon see cries like 'Ha ha ha, petition me if you want, nothing ever happens' come to an end.

At the end of the day, people are only c*@#s in PvP zones because they're continually allowed to get away with it. The dev's are soft on them and too many other members of the community ignore that sort of behaviour when they happen to be on the same side as the offenders.

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I think Exofrost would probably find it hard going too (cant see you being able to do much difference from the fight you lost in).

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lol, Exo would have destroyed them.

With Jum spending the whole match TK'd in the corner it basically boiled down to me against the blapper. His one trick was the Total Focus stun and kill but he wouldn't have even got close to Exo. Snow Storm dropped on him to keep him at range while I spam my hold and seconds later he's held as the recharge on it's so quick.

I rarely have trouble with Blappers on Exo and it's Trollers and Spine Scrappers that are my achilles heel in one on ones.

I'll definitely be taking Exo over Kin for Suckerpunched(Where we have a stunning two entries from Force Of Immunity in the form of me and Jum )

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Anyway, I am still impressed with thermal corruptors in team PvP. I may even make one myself

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But you have an empath on CoH!

After getting Kin to 50 then going over to CoH and rolling my first ever empath I've been practically soiling myself at how much better they are.

If there was no CoH or CoV and it was all just one big game, no one would roll a thermal for PvP. People would either roll a Blaster or an Empath and the only reason thermals are popular is because it's the closest thing we have to a watered down version of an empath on villains.

I'm also pretty damn sure that if I coule play with myself(insert innuendo here), Exofrost would perform MUCH better than Kinslayer in a fight.

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As jose Mourinho said, it takes skill to win a league but u need luck to win a tournament

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And the ability to buy any player you want regardless of cost, blowing the idea of an even playing field out of the water

As for my views on the tournament, I wish I hadn't come as my performance was woeful

First time I've PvP'd on my fire/thermal Corruptor and I just wish I'd taken my Ice/Ice one now as I was swearing at the screen everytime I used Warmth and see why people complain about the rooting on it as the other teams empath was happily running round and healing with no loss of mobility!