Just two points :
1/ bases : many were raid-ready and changed their mind to get more TP destinations, but this is reversible. I'd say that there are many more than 12 SGs able to do it.
2/ Getting more than one IoP requires a secure plot which is impossibly expensive. But from what I understand, if you raid the cathedral, you get what it drops. No choice. If you raid other people bases, you can see what kind of item they have, and decide it's not worth it and raid another base to see if they carry something more interesting. But I might be wrong on this one. Still waiting for the CoP to be in "resonant frequencies".
My opinion is that hostile raids won't be too common. But that a couple of hard-PvPers' SG will take the occasion to kick every butts they can. They won't even care about the IoP. And I'd like to know how GMs will react when you petition against people raiding your base in an "unfair" way.
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I'd say that there are many more than 12 SGs able to do it.
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Aye, thats why in my opening paragraph I said there were a lot of bases who could meet basic raid requirements but probably only a dozen or so who are actually capable of successfully raiding(i.e having the defences, number of PvP players, raid experience, etc) and not getting torn apart in any IoP raid.
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if you raid the cathedral, you get what it drops. No choice.
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I've run this twice on test now and on both occasions we got to choose which type of IoP we placed when editing the base after the TF(There was also no high prestige reward on completion as had been rumoured)
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My opinion is that hostile raids won't be too common. But that a couple of hard-PvPers' SG will take the occasion to kick every butts they can.
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That's the point I was trying to make. If only a few VG's are going to open themselves up to raids, the chances of you being able to raid are very slim given the number of raid windows there are in a single week and the small number of groups that are likely to actually have raid windows open. In short, getting all your SG together and hoping a group has their raid window set for that time is going to be like finding a needle in a haystack.
In other words, the serious raid groups are going to try and run a raid and get told the majority of the time that there isn't a VG/SG with their raid window open at that time.
As for 'unfair' raiding. Unless there's griefing or other swearing going on during the actual raid, I don't see what you can petition the GM's about. Trashing every single item in another groups base is not griefing. It may not be very nice but it's also very sensible as you're essentially destroying things which will hopefully stop them being able to raid you back for a long time as they try to get the prestige/salvage to replace them.
Out of intrest i wonder what happens if your raiding someones elses base and someone decided to raid you.
I dont know eneough of how these raids work but what the hell happens if someone raids your base and no ones logged in. Do the attackers just have free reign to demolish your base at will.
You're not actually allowed to raid another base during your own raid window and if none of you are online, they do get free reign to trash the base.
However, it's not quite as catastrophic as it sounds as I think the attackers automatically win if there has not been a single defender in the base for a set period of time. 10 minutes seems to ring a bell and since the HP/DEF changes to base items, that's actually not long for them to trash stuff(it took 3 brutes over 10 minutes to destroy the basic generator in tests)
I could be wrong there though and it may be the defenders who win if there's not been an attacker in the base for a certain amount of time.
I do have all the win conditions on my PC somewhere in a FAQ I wrote so will dig them out and double check
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I'd say that there are many more than 12 SGs able to do it.
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Aye, thats why in my opening paragraph I said there were a lot of bases who could meet basic raid requirements but probably only a dozen or so who are actually capable of successfully raiding(i.e having the defences, number of PvP players, raid experience, etc) and not getting torn apart in any IoP raid.
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I understand that. But that's just guessing.
To take a counter-example, a SG leader (with no interest in PvP nor raids) already proposed me a deal where we'd arrange dummy raids through an unlikely timetable to exchange IoP without "intruders" interfering.
(and BTW, I'm mostly on Vigilance, things might be a little different there).
My point here is that it might be possible, at least at the beginning, that people will do the trial for the trial itself. So there might be more SGs carrying an IoP than one might think.
I guess we'll have to "wait and see".
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if you raid the cathedral, you get what it drops. No choice.
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I've run this twice on test now and on both occasions we got to choose which type of IoP we placed when editing the base after the TF
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Ok. My mistake. I was told that there were "common" items and rarer items (like in a CCG). I assumed that if some are rarer than others, you were not able to choose. Or maybe you get different choices sometimes ?
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In other words, the serious raid groups are going to try and run a raid and get told the majority of the time that there isn't a VG/SG with their raid window open at that time.
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Probably. But that's not what I call 100% sure.
Especially if they're trying often.
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As for 'unfair' raiding. Unless there's griefing or other swearing going on during the actual raid, I don't see what you can petition the GM's about. Trashing every single item in another groups base is not griefing.
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My point exactly.
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It may not be very nice but it's also very sensible as you're essentially destroying things which will hopefully stop them being able to raid you back for a long time as they try to get the prestige/salvage to replace them.
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I don't think the people we're talking about care a lot about those details. Yes, I have a poor opinion of human nature 
to be honest im not sure how often the hostile raids will happen i know a number of groups are already orgonising non agresion packs basicly informaly agreing not to raid each other for the iop coz the risk of damage to each others base and the months it would take to rebuild isnt worth the risk.
the bigger groups are gona be a lil better of on this as well because tey are gona have atleast some sort of base defences placed and ready to go where as a hell of alot of those smaller groups out there that think they are raid ready will have the basic set up no base defences and a good chance of limited numbers to defend so will be risking a hell of alot just by having the iop.
i tihnk the only way the devs ae gona make this iop ting work as a truely interesting pvp event is finding a better way to balance the risk/reward system consdering how long it takes to build up a base and all it takes is one strong pvp group bent on destruction to completly destroy those efferts, a situation like this could turn a well eqioped popular sg into a reck over night.
i do think while the raid system is disabled alot of people will be doing the cop just to seee whats availible from it and experiance the new content but once the raids are live again i think its gona be a very limited thing to see a group with an iop taking that huge risk
There isnt a problem on earth that cant be solved with the proper aplication of hi explosive's
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I've already made some proposals to change how raids are designed (and I'm once again asking community coordinators to report them up to the developpers) :
1/ let the raiders steal the IoP, but repair automatically the base at the end like in an instant raid.
Given that this would lead to repair bots and other stuff becoming useless, it's probably more reasonable to ask for...
2/ ...a system where destroyed items would heal themselves over a certain period of time (let's say a week), with equipment which is now supposed to increase the recovery chance speeding the healing process.
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I've already made some proposals to change how raids are designed (and I'm once again asking community coordinators to report them up to the developpers) :
1/ let the raiders steal the IoP, but repair automatically the base at the end like in an instant raid.
Given that this would lead to repair bots and other stuff becoming useless, it's probably more reasonable to ask for...
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Thought people had been complaining a while back that even in friendly raids items which were destroyed were gone for good? Is this no-longer the case or was it never the case and I just heard wrong?
This is a VERY interesting thread.I am really lookin forward to see how Devs will handle it cause base raiding is supposingly part of the end game content they are bringing in the game.
I am one of the leaders of the SG in 22nd place on Union server.
We have the numbers of people reported as needed to do the CoP. So maybe more than 12 potentially. As you say its not hard to get a base rdy for the CoP. Ours has been rdy for months, and doesn't need any changes to make it so.
Its having the players interested. We can get the numbers necessary, but tbh honest the players are more looking forward to Statesman's strike force. They really aren't worried about if they have an IoP or not because the buff is likely to be so low.
Yes I know they will do the CoP to begin with but come Statesman's TF they will be more interested in that (the first 8 person team has already been identified, lol). I can see CoP becoming a "been there got the t-shirt type of trial" after awhile, except for those teams with more hard core pvp players.
Also alot of people don't know about the CoP or how to set base up for it. Met a SG leader today who don't know wot it was.
I think that the CoP should be advertised on the updater before it goes live to let more players know it exists and that there are SGs with bases ready for it which they could look to join. In fact will put that on the suggestions page.
Paragon Girl
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They really aren't worried about if they have an IoP or not because the buff is likely to be so low.
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There is a debt reduction IoP and a XP increase one IIRC.
Surely something is better than nothing. 
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As for 'unfair' raiding. Unless there's griefing or other swearing going on during the actual raid, I don't see what you can petition the GM's about. Trashing every single item in another groups base is not griefing.
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My point exactly.
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Whether it is griefing or not, it is the one issue why we (the goonies, alternate goonies, goonieatrics, possibly our coalition friend SGs too) will decide whether or not to get IoPs. (those theree Sgs will however propably merge if they introduce the SG member limit change..)
However, after I participated a test raid on test server, it looks like base trashing is not going to be an issue unless raids are changed again. It is practically impossible to trash bases because of the short time limit (30 mins) and the humongous durability of items. Any kind of interference from the defenders is good enough to prevent wanton item destruction.
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They really aren't worried about if they have an IoP or not because the buff is likely to be so low.
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Well, Midoh (the french CC) announced a raise from a 2% buff to 8% per item (not implemented on test now, though). With a single vault base it is not so low. And if you are on a secured plot with four or five vaults, it's far from ridiculous.
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Any kind of interference from the defenders is good enough to prevent wanton item destruction.
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It depends a lot of what the defending base looks like, the people involved (I think people will be very vigilant at the beginning, but if nothing happens during several watch times, they won't take watch duty very seriously after a while), and the tactics involved. This is very different from 'normal' PvP. You can imagine several ways to get to your goal and brute force might not be the best. Defenders have to be ready for everything.
I guess my SG will wait a while for a round of observation (see what happens to other SG who will try it from the start).
Better safe than sorry.
Most importantly .....
Is there a badge for the CoP trial?
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...10 minutes seems to ring a bell and since the HP/DEF changes to base items, that's actually not long for them to trash stuff(it took 3 brutes over 10 minutes to destroy the basic generator in tests)...
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Our team of 16 heroes & Shivan Decimators took a shielded turbine generator down in under 3 minutes.
We've taken down several other generators in live instanced raids. Some of the times it was close to the hour mark and was an incredible battle of attrition, being defeated, spawning back in base & tp'ing back to the raid again over & over, but it's doable, and once the generator goes down, the raids almost won.
Taking the generator down is the attackers most achievable method of getting the defenders out of base.
Picture this, it takes less time on the long animation setting the Pylons up than it takes a full defending team to get across town from an outside hospital back to the base portal and fighting through the secret entrance. I've seen it happen several times where the attackers have not even scored once on the anchors, yet past the 50 minute mark they've takne the generator and defeated the defenders out of base, and under a minute later all the Pylons go up, the anchors come down and the raid is won by Pylon Disruption. It happens really fast. So fast and confusing that one VG actually thought they had won.
I've had a long look at our base items, and I'm hard pressed to think of anything I'd rather lose over the Turbine generator.
Is smashing up bases "griefing"? No, I'm afraid it's not. There's things in bases that play lesser or greater roles on raiding, but base stuff is going to be as fair game as any player entering a PvP zone. I find it discomforting too, but that's going to be the reality. Personally I will think long and hard about raids, and I'd not be inclined to do it without a full team of 16 able to drop everything and defend the base in the raid windows.
Also, raids will have peoples best builds, lots of Insps and lots of temps in the way of things like Shivan Decimators and Warburg nukes. Particular characters will get ganked non stop the whole time. I hope people getting involved in raids are going to realise all of this before hand.
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...10 minutes seems to ring a bell and since the HP/DEF changes to base items, that's actually not long for them to trash stuff(it took 3 brutes over 10 minutes to destroy the basic generator in tests)...
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Our team of 16 heroes & Shivan Decimators took a shielded turbine generator down in under 3 minutes.
We've taken down several other generators in live instanced raids. Some of the times it was close to the hour mark and was an incredible battle of attrition, being defeated, spawning back in base & tp'ing back to the raid again over & over, but it's doable, and once the generator goes down, the raids almost won.
Taking the generator down is the attackers most achievable method of getting the defenders out of base.
Picture this, it takes less time on the long animation setting the Pylons up than it takes a full defending team to get across town from an outside hospital back to the base portal and fighting through the secret entrance. I've seen it happen several times where the attackers have not even scored once on the anchors, yet past the 50 minute mark they've takne the generator and defeated the defenders out of base, and under a minute later all the Pylons go up, the anchors come down and the raid is won by Pylon Disruption. It happens really fast. So fast and confusing that one VG actually thought they had won.
I've had a long look at our base items, and I'm hard pressed to think of anything I'd rather lose over the Turbine generator.
Is smashing up bases "griefing"? No, I'm afraid it's not. There's things in bases that play lesser or greater roles on raiding, but base stuff is going to be as fair game as any player entering a PvP zone. I find it discomforting too, but that's going to be the reality. Personally I will think long and hard about raids, and I'd not be inclined to do it without a full team of 16 able to drop everything and defend the base in the raid windows.
Also, raids will have peoples best builds, lots of Insps and lots of temps in the way of things like Shivan Decimators and Warburg nukes. Particular characters will get ganked non stop the whole time. I hope people getting involved in raids are going to realise all of this before hand.
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If raids will be like that they will be dead from the start. No casual SGs will be doing them.
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...10 minutes seems to ring a bell and since the HP/DEF changes to base items, that's actually not long for them to trash stuff(it took 3 brutes over 10 minutes to destroy the basic generator in tests)...
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Our team of 16 heroes & Shivan Decimators took a shielded turbine generator down in under 3 minutes.
We've taken down several other generators in live instanced raids. Some of the times it was close to the hour mark and was an incredible battle of attrition, being defeated, spawning back in base & tp'ing back to the raid again over & over, but it's doable, and once the generator goes down, the raids almost won.
Taking the generator down is the attackers most achievable method of getting the defenders out of base.
Picture this, it takes less time on the long animation setting the Pylons up than it takes a full defending team to get across town from an outside hospital back to the base portal and fighting through the secret entrance. I've seen it happen several times where the attackers have not even scored once on the anchors, yet past the 50 minute mark they've takne the generator and defeated the defenders out of base, and under a minute later all the Pylons go up, the anchors come down and the raid is won by Pylon Disruption. It happens really fast. So fast and confusing that one VG actually thought they had won.
I've had a long look at our base items, and I'm hard pressed to think of anything I'd rather lose over the Turbine generator.
Is smashing up bases "griefing"? No, I'm afraid it's not. There's things in bases that play lesser or greater roles on raiding, but base stuff is going to be as fair game as any player entering a PvP zone. I find it discomforting too, but that's going to be the reality. Personally I will think long and hard about raids, and I'd not be inclined to do it without a full team of 16 able to drop everything and defend the base in the raid windows.
Also, raids will have peoples best builds, lots of Insps and lots of temps in the way of things like Shivan Decimators and Warburg nukes. Particular characters will get ganked non stop the whole time. I hope people getting involved in raids are going to realise all of this before hand.
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If raids will be like that they will be dead from the start. No casual SGs will be doing them.
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Hehe thats where you be wrong. If you got a big raid going on (say 12 + on both sides) lag will be your bases best defense. Everything was coming to a stand still where you couldnt really do much.
Its not to hard to defend say the power generator or whatever is your key item. Besides from the sound of it stealing an item of power will be the best bet (charging the defenders trying to overwhelm them).
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And I'd like to know how GMs will react when you petition against people raiding your base in an "unfair" way.
[/ QUOTE ] They'll laugh I suppose
Prestige needs fixing and SGs need enlargening to allow players to form SGs capable of CoPs more easily
Plight
OK, CoP is on test and should go live soon so a lot of SG/VG's have the decision to make when they fix the raid system of whether or not to raid and risk their base items. There's a few points for discussion i'd like to raise and see what people's views on them are.
)
How Many Bases Can Actually Raid?
Looking at the prestige earnings on Union, there are a lot of groups that have the cash to meet the bare minimum requirements but i'd say there are only a dozen or so really capable of or probably thinking about doing raids.
If They All Do The CoP, Then There Will Be No Base Raids!
Yup. Let's say there are 12 SG's capable of raiding. As soon as the very easy trial goes live, they all run out and do it and get their IoP. Now that they all have an IoP, they can't raid another base and take their IoP as the number you can have is limited by plot size so you won't be allowed to raid(I can't remember exactly but I think the next plot up to allow two IoP's was pretty damn expensive so probably only a couple of groups capable of that).
Unless you have an available place for an IOP, you can't raid someone for their IoP
IMO, I can see two things happening, a raid SG decides they are not going to risk their base and ignore the CoP altogether or they decide they are going to raid so do the TF. I don't see many SG's deciding they want to raid but would prefer to steal another groups IoP when it's 10 times easier to do the TF itself and get to choose which IoP you place.
Raid Windows
OK, IIRC, these are two hours long and you have to set two of them for a week. Twelve 2 hour blocks in a day, 7 days a week equals 84 raid windows. If there are a dozen serious raid SG's on Union that means you could have a maximum of 24 raid window slots where there is actually a group flagged for you to raid and thats' only if a couple of SG's don't pick the same window.
Oh, I also forgot to mention that if all 24 are flagged, that means there are no serious raid capable SG's about to do the raid as they all already have their IoP.
Now, I realise my figures of how many SG's will/won't raid and are capable of raiding are just guesses but I also think they're reasonable estimates. Given that, does anyone think we'll ever actually see any raids take place?
It will also be interesting to see if people set raid windows for the times no one is going to be online or for the times everyone is going to be online. Do you set it in the early hours of the morning so you should never get raided or do you set it at peak time so you could get raided lots but will have plenty of people to defend?
How Many Times Can You Raid?
OK, Precision Rangers decide to raid at 17.00 on Monday because it's more fun to get an IoP through a raid than CoP TF. They get lucky and there actually is a group to raid in the form of EVIL and the raid happens. The EVIL guys drop what they're doing, quit their TF's, respecs, timed missions(that's going to be annoying) and come rushing to base. They defend successfully and the PR's are thwarted. Yay!
PR's decide they want their IoP no matter what so as soon as the raid is over, they try another raid in the next window and get another SG to raid, rinse and repeat.(given that the number of windows available show how hard it will be to find one SG, let alone two in a row, those PR's have just shown themself to be jammy so and so's
Does it look like there is going to be any limit on how many times you can raid, say once every 24 hours? I've seen no evidence of it so far.
Can Anyone Else See Hostile IoP Raids Happening Or Will People Stick To Friendly Raids?
Looking at all of the above, I just don't see many raids happening and a lot of people i've spoken to think the same as well. What about everyone else, will IoP raids ever become common or are there just too many deterents and obstacles to them actually happening?