JupiterMoon

i've found that unless the group im in is of a like mind - ie. they prefer situations controlled instead of rampant chaos - grouping with an mm of any flavor is frustrating

at least when i play a brute i can take point and ENFORCE my controlled way of kiling things and keeping everyone alive. when im on my fire/kin well...i'm too busy pounding on fireball.

why energy melee?

hah i remember this build being the uber tank-mage back in the day

if only i could find those demos theconfessor made

since both ff and cold have the same defense values, i think the ff shields could use substantial def debuff resistance to make them more attractive.

i've got a 5 year old 41 ff/rad defender i'd love to play again

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According to what you just said, without any of those you can't complete this SF.

While any TF blueside you could be braindead & still win so long you have your team there, including there Big Boy STF, the STF is 500x easier then LRSF.

So no random PuG can do this, unlike Blue where its high favors a Random PuG will do this.

If I go in to LRSF with 2 Brutes(Non Granite) Say a Dark Miasma & Pain Corrupter, 2 Doms(Non Mind) & 1 Stalker & 1 MM who say is poison.


Odds are they won't complete this(Because its a PuG you can guess half team if not 90% of them doesnt have a Shivan or Nukes.)


So without very specific combinations, Its going be undo-able, this leaves every other AT power combination that isnt what you need for LRSF out in the Cold, unless you got a pity spot.


JJ

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The team you listed should be able to buy inspirations and bum rush Numina as I stated previously in this thread.

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our all mm team took out numina..then wiped. because numina came with positron and citadel. citadel was in the back taking out pets left and right.

next attempt we tried to pull only positron. we got positron, statesman, citadel and back alley brawler.

the inspiration tray isnt big enough for a single mm to bum-rush anything.


so anyone who says any combination of villains can do this is full of garbage. if you are TRUELY pugging it, then your team being mostly mm's is a real possiblity. or mostly corruptors or mostly brutes or mostly doms.

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Yeah, we just quit out of an all-MM run, believe it or not.

We had one MM quit at the very start (we had temp powers off and no defeats, trying for a Master run). Had one defeat in the first mission, inadvertently.

Everything went swimmingly until the last mission; we set up our MMs, I pulled Numina and we killed her. Then Posi, BaBs, Synapse came. We tried dropping Posi and couldn't (the others had killed two of the MMs at this point) so we regrouped and tried ANOTHER pull on Manticore, since he was away from the rest. Along came States, BaBs, Psyche and Posi. We worked on Posi for a while but States pulverized one of the MMs.

One of the MMs quit at that point, leaving us with 6. Tried a rush with no luck, called it a night.

By all means, our team SHOULD have been able to handle the Phalanx with ease but there was a lot of arguing about pulling, rushing, who to pull, how to pull, who to focus on etc. The leader wasn't really sure where to go with the TF, we tried to help him out but it just was interminable.

Sad part is, I'm sure if I did it with a different friend on his Spider we'd breeze it. :/

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the leader of that tf was a powerlevelled noob who didnt know what bodyguard meant at 50.

with three ffg's going, statesman still one shot me and all my henchmen at once. we didnt have enough of the right kinds of debuffs to deal with absurdly overpowered heroes when we had no way of pulling them one at a time.

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You know what, I just realized that MM's pets may not be able to take Pet Recharge pets? Just Pet Sets??

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gang war takes both, enabling a thugs/traps or thugs/ff to softcap a bruiser to melee/aoe/ranged and give it brute levels of resistance to smash/lethal

i got real money that says ultimo plays petless masterminds

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So I was reading all the posts in this thread and I saw no one posted the "real" reason this thread exists.

You can deny it all you want but you know the OP wants to make a petless Thugs MM for the obvious reason.



[/ QUOTE ]

yes, to be a John Woo poser

much like the same reasons these threads pop up every two months for the last three years

that build has 120% less regen than my stone/wp, regens 20 less hp per second and has 200 less hp

then again i have 0 kinetic slotted, beucase i havent been able to buy any for three weeks.

it's similiar to the build iw as building for, until i fought those romans and a few ae missions with custom dual blade mobs - who just NEVER miss.

i've only done the lrsf once. on my thugs/traps. back before traps was nerfed and i could keep the phalanx chain puking.

every player used nukes. but hey, i got my archvillain

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Am I overlooking really obvious sets?

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Might be overlooking Kinetic Combat (3.75% S/L for 4 slots). It's hella expensive nowadays since there are a lot fewer options for typed defense.

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not just expensive, but very rare. there is maybe one on the ah for any level ever couple of days

well you dont really need to build up the smashing/lethal defense, as you can get a good amount of resistance to that in wp

energy/neg energy defense can be beefed up a bit using 3 and 4 slot resistance sets in tough and mind over body as well as other places.

since i'm stone i really havent bothered to build for it. it takes uncommon enemy types to take me down (minions and lt's who are immune to knockdown and stun - and a lot of them at a time). i've got 30% defense to everything but toxic/smash/lethal which are in their teens. if the poo hits the fan, a single luck is usually enough for me to start to recover

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i solo'd every av every story arch gave me on the way to 50 as both a necro/dark and a thugs/traps and did it without io's.


some mm builds need io's. most do not. all you really need is some -regen, some defense or overwhelming amounts of healing and -tohit debuffs.

[/ QUOTE ]

so does that exclude pain dom?

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i dont consider pain or storm as viable as traps or dark. your debuffs cant be made perma, and just being able to heal alone isnt enough. you also need someway of increasing your pets survivability whether it's from massive amounts of -hit or -dmg or -recharge you can keep up permanently, or some form of shielding for the pets to keep them alive.

an ideal av solo situation is having to replace the minimum number of pets. the more end spent on replacing pets and rebuffing them is end not spent using your secondary to debuff the av or buff your pets.

of the two - the thugs/traps had the easiest time killing positron as a +2 av. of the two, the necro/dark had the easiest time dealing with biff and widdershins regen as +2 EB's. of course once i got io's in the thugs/traps and could make the -regen in poison trap permanent that was no longer the case.

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what about the buffs to your pets available to say mercs/pain? Like Painbringer and World of Pain? Could those buffs make up for the lack of DEbuffs?

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can you make them perma? av fights are not exactly short.

i have a 42 bots/pain and using that one fortitude-copy power seems to bug out my assault bot (and you cant modify pet recharge in any form)

just to clarify, you arent going to find a better av killing build than this thugs/traps

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to bottom line the above:

bruiser is at the defense cap
bruiser has 40% smash/lethal resists

secondary has perma:
-5000 regen
-20% defense (20 seconds stacked -40% defense)
-20% resistance (20 seconds stacked -40% resistance)

+300% regen for all pets

-50% recharge which can stack quite a bit (web grenade)

-fly, run, jump

status prot against hold/stun/immob

-20% dmg (drones)


of course all that is modified by av resists, but you get the picture

i've got a few mm's at 50, and the above combination is the most lethal and most survivable for dealingl with av's - even positron and his annoying -def -regen -recharge rad attacks.

the problem here is that wp starts with 0 positional for you to build on, but quite a lot of typed.

it's actually easier to build up the typed than the positional, even if you have weave and combat jumping.

also keep in mind you dont really need all that much of it. you also get decent resists and very very high regen.

you'll actually get more mileage out of frankenslotting your attacks with 3 mako's and 3 crushing impact (for max hp) than putting a full 6 of mako's or touch of death.

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My real question is SHOULD damage for Brutes = Scrappers? What is the design role difference? W

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sure it should

what the analysis doesnt show you is that (and correct me if i'm wrong) the harder the target ,the more often a scrapper will crit.

i was impressed watching powerforge's soloing of lord recluse - mostly for the sheer number of times MG and SL crit. those crits blow away anything a brute will do at 85 fury or so (about where a brute sits fighting a single target for a long time). i will say though that siphon life heals a brute for substantially more than a scrapper. those 220 heals he was getting at 50 are about half of what an io'd out dm brute can get from the attack due to the higher hitpoints and higher hp cap. dm/willpower siphon life heals are huge no matter how you slot it thanks to hpt.

but the crits. crit% is higher vs. bosses/lts/eb/av right? and maintaining fury on a team where spawns are not tightly controlled and kept immobile around the brute (ie..just about any team one joins) makes it rough on fury

i'm a little surprised that you have hurl boulder in your attack c hain there umbral. i was under the impresison it wasnt all that hot of an attack.

pets running all over is certainly an issue with this at. i think that's one reason why so many people fail as mm's or fail to make it to 50. they dont compensate for this by using the other available tools in the pools.

i have had my bruiser run from me - after hitting my defensive/follow bind - all the way out of range before he ran right back. it was like he was mocking me or something.

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i solo'd every av every story arch gave me on the way to 50 as both a necro/dark and a thugs/traps and did it without io's.


some mm builds need io's. most do not. all you really need is some -regen, some defense or overwhelming amounts of healing and -tohit debuffs.

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so does that exclude pain dom?

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i dont consider pain or storm as viable as traps or dark. your debuffs cant be made perma, and just being able to heal alone isnt enough. you also need someway of increasing your pets survivability whether it's from massive amounts of -hit or -dmg or -recharge you can keep up permanently, or some form of shielding for the pets to keep them alive.

an ideal av solo situation is having to replace the minimum number of pets. the more end spent on replacing pets and rebuffing them is end not spent using your secondary to debuff the av or buff your pets.

of the two - the thugs/traps had the easiest time killing positron as a +2 av. of the two, the necro/dark had the easiest time dealing with biff and widdershins regen as +2 EB's. of course once i got io's in the thugs/traps and could make the -regen in poison trap permanent that was no longer the case.

again with your garbage

the op didnt ask which was better - mm, brute or dom.

here. here's the OP. read it again

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Can you farm with a master mind? I would imagine it would be a good farm AT but no one ive seen uses them for farms.

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and mm's can farm JUST FINE. i made my billions of infamy on a damned MM because clearly they just cant farm at all. ever.'


oh btw please take your ss/fire brute and farm a map with nothing but super arachnoid bosses or lt's. let us know how that goes.

as for the herostats thing - on a mission map set for only one person, and me solo, with only freakshow lt's i do 35,000 per minute. it's a little higher when i use my arachnoid lt's, but most at's cant survive it because jus tone can shut down all regen and recharge and they do pretty good dmg from range. mm pets arent affected by -recharge (side affect of them no longer being affected by +recharge)

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Is it worthwhile to do AE missions at low levels?

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The mission architect has missions that are just as difficult as what you'd experience normally. However, when you run into custom enemies, overpopulous bosses and AVs, as well as "high level" missions that automatically side-kick you, then you'll be an an extreme disadvantage. Low level enemies are incredibly easy when compared to the rest of the game.

Except for spectral daemons on the teens. Whoever designed those needs to be shut in a microwave.

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Abominations in the teens also do way too much damage for their level. I avoid Vahzilok missions in the teens like the plague.

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donty ou miss the days of all vahzilok vomit/puke attacks being untyped dmg and unresistable/undefendable?

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My MM can make 2 million in raw inf in 10 minutes.

Yes, MMs can farm.

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AE doesn't count.

My first toon was bots/traps and I used him to farm for awhile.. then I made my SS/FA brute and found out just how slow MMs are at farming.

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it's funny how people forget to add that it takes substantially more infamy to make that ss/fa SURVIVE the same things a thugs or bots mm is farming.

so farm with your mm to make the better farmer

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apparently the devs DO dislike farming, as the message from synapse seems to confirm, and as the post by Posi also stated. If they were just fixing a flaw that they accidentally put in no one would really be upset (well, someone might be, but the rest of us would ignore those that far out of touch from reality).

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no actually - the devs have no problem with players farming missions. legit farming. you want to reset that misison and do it again to farm the kills for a badge or drops? they dont mind at all.

so long as you arent exploiting some loop hole to gain an unfair advantage. using these particular mobs was that loophole. it wasnt farming - it was exploiting.


it's still possible to get stupid amounts of xp out of ma missions. it's also still possible to bridge and get even MORE stupid amounts of xp out of dev created missions. it's also possible for a solo stalker to plevel 7 people on newspaper mission completion bonuses alone. but these arent exploits if they were they would have been fixed years ago.

no. it's not the same thing. the devs arent outlawing farming. they are outlawing exploitive farming. getting twice the xp of a boss from a minion? exploit. making a mission where you hit a glowy for maximum ticket returns every 3-4 minutes over and over? exploitive. making a misison with nothing but lieutenants? not exploitive (since they give normal lieutenant xp and no matter how easy you make 'em, a crowd of lt's will destroy all but a few builds of a few classes)

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My L41 Tanker, running only the Invulnerability toggles, runs out of endurance spamming only KO Blow. That's ONE attack, and he has triple slotted Stamina.

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rofl

was this a serious post? do i REALLY need to get into any amount of detail about how this scenario simply doesnt play out?

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All Rikti comm officers gave lieutenant XP but had minion stats. As far as I could tell the level 42 versions weren't any different in this regard. In fact, I believe the meow farms that used them were actually sub-optimal for PLing because everyone was SK'd up to being even-con with them. The hard core farm maps use level 52 enemies and SK lowbies up to 45.

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no, they gave twice the xp of a same level BOSS, but had minion stats.

the hardcore used the 40-44 versions - started by a level 50 - and everyone at 41 or below was sk'd to 42. as long as you never bothered to train your char beyond level 40 at an actual trainer you would continue to get the absurd xp bonus all the way to 50 - on that 40-44 map

the devs of this game have no problem with people farming missions. if they did, most of the villains on this game would have been banned two years ago for farming TV. no, they just dont like people abusing mobs that gave two times the xp of a +2 boss with 1/4 the health/resistances

you both need to take that stuff to pm's.