JuliusSeizure

The proc goes off on every target, which is probably where your math differed from mine.

Base JC damage = 11
Socketed enhanced damage = 90% = (11*1.9) = 20.9
Armageddon average proc damage = (107*0.33) = 35.31
Total damage = 20.9+35.31 = 56.21


At that value, you can see how it does more total damage at 4, doubles at 8, triples at 12, and quadruples at 16 relative to having 5 parts Armageddon socketed in Lightning bolt.

I also have a Chance for Smashing proc from Kinetic Strike. This adds 14.4 average damage, making each Jolting Chain strike average 70 points per target hit.

That's one way to look at it I suppose. I feel that they looked at Hamidon when they repeatedly addressed the raid a while back, not Phantom Army, and realigned Hamidon's powers and abilities to fit their vision of how the raid should be run. Their focus was on Hamidon, and this is but one example of how players manipulated his behavior with *cough* a highly exploitable skill.

Sometimes developers have permission to fix one thing and not another, because altering Phantom Army is a whole new can of worms.

I don't think they are currently designing new content with Phantom Army explicitly in mind. More to the point, I don't think they want to. Recluse was meant to be one tough bugger, something that multiple debuff toggles, a Tank, and a designated Empath spamming heals and buffs have difficulty distracting while the team drops the towers.

Or you could just drop Phantom Army...

Here's my reasoning. For every single ability that a hero/villain has access to, I could name some mechanic that counteracts it or at least mollifies its effectiveness. Whether that's PToD protecting AVs against mez, or abilities that grant foes +acc and +ToHit to break through high defense, or simply creating an enemy group with higher protection to certain mez types-- Nemesis and confuse come to mind-- there are tools that the developers can employ to counter hero abilities and make the game challenging.

What counteracts 3 untouchable pets that happen to do damage with a 27 second mag 4 taunt attached? I can't think of anything, and that's my reasoning.

Have you watched an Illusion/** solo some of the most difficult GMs and AVs this game has? Illusion Control isn't doing this because of the breadth of abilities available to the set, Illusion Control is doing it because Phantom Army puts up an indestructible wall. Plenty of sets have access to enough damage and -regeneration to take down similar foes, but only one set has the access to invincible set pieces. From a design stand point, I would never want players to have access to indestructible pets, let alone ones that do damage and possess long duration / high magnitude agro generating abilities.

And no, soloing AVs and GMs is not reason enough to label a skill as broken, as plenty of ATs can do the same and every character gets increasingly powerful through global recharge bonuses. But doing so without any risk whatsoever? Only PA grants this.

Illusion is a legacy set, and Phantom Army kind of floats under the radar because of this. As soon as Illusion is ported, however, Phantom Army would probably be looked at.

I play redside almost exclusively. Doms and Brutes happen to be my primary ATs. So, I gave?

I feel that the developers haven't ported Illusion because it would require them to address Phantom Army, one of the most broken** skills in the game. Invincible pets that draw agro are not something they would want proliferated, and a port would require reworking the skill if not the set.

Super Strength and Rage are probably on the same footing when it comes to Scrapper damage scalars.

**Edit: Just to clarify, Phantom Army is THE most broken skill in the game. IMO of course.

Brutes would definitely place higher than they did in that list.

Wasn't that thread in the Scrapper forum anyway? I suspect that list is emblematic more of the population that participated and their respective efforts to improve upon a main character than of actual AT performance.

It most certainly does, which makes the argument that Scrappers receive more benefit from externalized +damage particularly valid. You aren't always teamed with a heavily IOed Kineticist that is spewing +damage buffs all over the place. You will, however, often be teamed with players granting some form of +damage, whether that's Forge, Accelerate Metabolism, Pain Bringer, World of Pain, Fortitude, or the soon-to-be ubiquitous Assault from the Pool Powers.

You won't always have +damage on a team. And even if there is an AT that grants +damage on a team, you can't always rely on being the recipient of that buff. So saying that it doesn't matter that a Scrapper receives the most benefit for externalized +damage because a Brute can eventually catch up after +400% is trivializing how often and how much +damage is granted when teaming.

Edit-- And just to add, red inspirations span solo and team play. I love popping these things on my Scrappers... not so much on my Brutes.

I never forget the damage cap. You can at least admit that Scrappers will attain their damage cap far more often than Brutes do. And when the Scrapper is not only more damaging when at it's respective cap, but reaches that peak faster and more often, there WILL be a damage discrepancy on teams that is certainly noticeable for the "average joe."

It actually makes perfect sense and is exactly what happens. A Scrapper with 95% socketed and 100% from external buffs will out-damage a Brute with 95% socketed, 150% Fury, and 100% from external buffs. This is because the AT damage modifier is so much larger for Scrappers than it is for Brutes.

Smite for Scrappers = 82.58 Base

• Adjusted for Criticals = (82.58*1.075) = 88.77
• Base socketing + 100% external buff = (88.77*2.95) = 261.88

Smite for Brutes = 55.05

• Base Socketing + 100% external buff + 75 Fury or 150% damage= (55.05*4.45) = 244.97

If I recall correctly, those spreadsheets also included Gloom, as they were a comparison of optimal DPS chains. They also did not include internalized damage buffs, which heavily favor Scrappers for both Burst and sustained DPS.

Now, let's compare these skills with a 5 target Soul Drain and the exact same external damage buff. The Scrapper takes off even faster in this situation because of their high AT damage modifier and 1.0 self buff modifier. This means that Soul Drain is adding not only more +damage, but it is also manipulating a higher base number.

For Scrappers:

• Base socketing + 100% external buff + 5 target Soul Drain = (88.77*3.95) = 350.64

For Brutes:

• Base Socketing + 100% external buff + 75 Fury or 150% damage + 5 target Soul Drain= (55.05*5.25) = 289.01

Incendiary Swarm Missile every 5 seconds with the FF proc comes to mind... Assault Bot was a beast.

If a pseudo pet is affected by socketed enhancements, it will be affected by Power Boost. I haven't explicitly tested this, but it should work on everything you mentioned.

Are we playing the same game?

Only Earth, Fire, and Thorny have more than 2 abilities that can even cause damage to an area. Earth has a PBAoE damage aura, which is unique to the set. Fire has a PBAoE +end/+recovery that does minor damage and is on a 3 minute timer-- this is not used as an attack but as a recovery tool. Thorny has a 5 target melee cone and a pseudo pet that causes area denial-- none of which are targeted AoEs or ranged cone attacks. For comparison your proposed Munitions Assault has 2 cone attacks and 2 TAoE attacks while every other set has just one. Not one of each, but one.

I'd suggest reworking it so that the build is more realistic. But if you honestly think that Venom Grenade, M30, Heavy Burst, and Full Auto are completely kosher in Assault design, then by all means keep it fanciful.

Given that Dominators are explicitly limited in their AoE potential so as not to step into Blaster territory, game design would trump reality.

Your best bet would be to do something unique, like give the set one Cone, one Targeted AoE, and a third Targeted AoE with a 5' radius and a 3 target cap-- taking a page from Piercing Rounds here. Even that would be pushing the envelope because you are replacing a 10 target PBAoE with a 16 target TAoE. Dominator Assault sets are intentionally limited in their AoE potential, which why the APPs and PPPs provide TAoEs to fill this gap.

They actually have the same radius, which makes the higher target cap often constrained by targeting geometry. Things would be different if PSW had the old 25' radius...

A skill with a 10' radius that doesn't actually sap endurance, but does neuter recovery, isn't really the same as a 98% buff to both -endurance and -recovery to every single skill in the entire Electric Control set. That includes skills like Chain Fences which will be sapping 30% endurance to a 30'radius every 3.6 seconds on a high recharge build. Or Static Field which will be sapping 6% endurance every pulse rather than 3% when not even socketed for EndMod. Who needs -recovery from Drain Psyche when a well socketed Static Field is sapping 9% endurance every pulse and can be layered?

I'm going to flat out say this: the -recovery from DP is handy, but pretty useless given the skills already available to Electric Control. Drain Psyche is definitely better versus AVs though because of the -regeneration.



But you stated this as if PSW obviated anything Ice Assault had to offer:

That is a matter of damage, and in that regard ISC is very similar to PSW. In fact, your numbers comparison shows just how close they are in performance, and one is avialable at level 4 while the other is at 38. I would expect PSW to be better, but it really isn't flat out superior for coming a full 34 levels later.

I said the same thing in another thread, but take a closer look at the format for Assault secondaries. Dominators have limited access to AoE, and are generally granted one cone TAoE and one 15' PBAoE. There are a few exceptions to this, like Earth Assault having a very short range TAoE (Fissure) instead of a cone.

You have Heavy Burst, Venom Grenade, M30, and Full Auto in the same set. That just isn't going to happen. Ever.