Jebe_the_Pirate

Slotting Dark/ for defense and filling in its other holes is slot hungry but manageable. That said, you may not fill out everything the way you want till mid 40's.

One thing you can try is dropping CoF, slotting Kinetic combat in Scorch instead of S Haymaker to keep your S/L defense high. One thing to consider from 41 on, take an immobilize from an epic pool and slot it with enfeebled operation.

From the numbers you posted, you have Murky Cloud/Dark Embrace slotted for resists but not Tough. How come? You'd benefit greatly from having 70% S/L resists.

It's not weak, it's just less. 30% is nothing to shy from. When it comes to slotting, typed or positional will work for you and Rikti will not be a problem. You have other mitigation that works well against them.

Since you've mentioned IO's, toggle popping shouldn't be a problem and you can fire/forget if you socket for end redux and increase your endurance. I fire and forget my 8 toggles, 9 with sprint.

The one on the 11th will be my first. Any prereq's?

Sorry if it seemed like I was putting your idea down. It was too close to energy melee imo. I like the conversation it started though.

Is this the tank for my proposed KB All-Star team? HAHAHAHA. Melee's are welcome BTW.

TT doesn't suppress KB but it does keep them in your FR! Also you can put baddies in a corner with hurricane, FR, TT, NF, Tornado and Lightning Storm. Profit.

This sounds better than what the OP suggested.

Are you intending for the effects of the tier 9 to stack with other toggles?

So far the throw-away looks to be the 2.25 def/stealth...

I haven't made up my mind on whether or not I like the idea, especially if energy is proliferated.

Don't discount Electric Mastery. It offers good resistances to the 3 most widely used damage types end game. You can also stack effects in the elec powers with those of your primary or secondary. And also, t-strike is cool.

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well, I don't know about most versatile, but definitely very fun.

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I think my next project with mine is to come up with a build that maximizes damage, but tries to at least stay close to the def cap.

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I'm going into pyre mastery.



[/ QUOTE ]I dont miss the fears, and my experiment with OG+Stalagmites has left a lot to be desired. With my playstyle, I think I can just skip all three to be honest, I try to be mobile while tanking, and while the fears help, to be honest the only time I am not on all boss maps, I am in groups where it is just not an issue. As for OG, i have been noticing on numerous occaisons the damn mobs wander away from my Death Shroud so i have to chase em back down anyway, whereas if they were awake they would be dead a few secs later anyway.

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OG+Fault is teh awesome, that's why I went with stone on my 2nd DA. You have stacked stuns and they're knocked down.

As for DM, I've convinced myself to respec and will do without the fears. They're just not as essential to my survival as I originally thought.

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I don't mind foregoing the damage of say Midnight Grasp, if it means it opens up slots somewhere else. I used MG as an example because 6 slotted with enfeeble operation gives over 5% s/l def by itself. Anyway, gonna see what I can monkey with.

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I saw that originally but didn't have the slots and wanted some damage in MG. Will reconsider and should have them once I respec out of CoF.

I miss those dumpsters,

I'll never forget this. When I first started playing I remember taking the ferry from Talos to PI. Nevermind the fact that I was trying to go to Striga. Nevermind the fact I took the train from IP to get to Talos in the first place. The real kicker is when I jumped into the ferry, I figured the Striga entrance was the port side of the ferry and the PI side was the opening from the water and proceeded to go back and forth between talos and PI several times thinking I did it wrong. I still hate you with the purest fiery, neck-squeezing hate, minimized map! /shakesfist

This doesn't happen anymore but I used to jump into the middle of spawns on my defender thinking I'm my tank. They share a costume and I used to confuse them all the time. There was a time where I nearly freaked out about the devs changing the animation of soul drain and making it identical to twilight grasp. Again I was on my defender.

I've tried to enter the exit train.

The first ever toon I ever made, a friend tp'd me to the top of the atlas globe for the badge. He's like you'll need this later. "Great!" I said and then proceed to run off the side of the globe and splash the water nearest city hall, and dying without receiving the badge.

Jebe's Guide to Dark Armor for tanks posted in player guides a bit ago. Can it be added to tank guides list plz?

You're going to get that anyway and then the team gets a stone tank that doesn't know what they're doing so I think it works out just fine.

Forgoing fears is perfectly fine. I've done this on my DA/DM by not toggling CoF or casting ToF and it's just as survivable. When I first made this tank, I took them because I thought they were essential to my survival. After running him through plenty of AV's, EB's and 52 mobs I no longer see this as the case. Although I'm keeping them for added benefit but they are far from necessary. It's the other tricks in DM that make it worthwhile. Hell I might respec out of both. /shrug

DA/Mace is what I'll be working on after I finish my DA/Stone. I understand that there are less stun powers in stone but stacking OG+Fault is just gravy.

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Seriously, did you just seriously used the word anathema?. Honestly Sorciere who are you trying to impress with a word commonly used in the 1500's. Was loathe not enough? or was "hate" too simple?

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Methinks thou art a caitiff knave; aroint thee.

Man, it's been too long since I've been properly arointed.

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Dis maed me lol.

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I never said it was good design, the fact that a very large portion of toons have stamina may or may not prove bad design. I said that doing something about endurance should affect all AT's at level 20, not just tankers. And if indeed it an issue with tankers alone, then it should affect tankers of all levels, not just below level 20.

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I may not have expressed myself clearly enough -- I was speaking more generally (I have always asserted in the past that endurance concerns are not tanker-specific and see no reason to deviate from that position). Note that my earlier specific example was actually referring to an /SR scrapper.

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I'm thinking generally and understanding where you're coming from.


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However, if you are going to play the game and see content past the first few levels then you have to watch your endurance. It defeats the purpose of an endurance bar to do otherwise.

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This is a non-sequitur, I'm afraid. It is perfectly possible to have an endurance bar (or a similar resource) simply to restrict behaviors that are out of the ordinary, such as making the DPS of a perma-hastened character unsustainable.

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That's my fault, I was trying to be as concise as possible but cut too much out of my statement. What I meant is, if you want to continue to see content past the first 20 levels then you have to manage your end. But this is the case of every game to limit all out careless, monotonous, destruction as you've described.

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Acquiring attacks as you become them and use them is as normal as it comes; but without Stamina, you do not even have enough endurance recovery to sustain two attacks indefinitely. Toggles or a third attack pre-20 can have a rather dramatic effect.

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This is something that would affect all AT's with toggles and attacks at their disposal. Personally I think it has more to do with the static endurance bar, meaning the maximum endurance value does not increase as you level. I believe this (or reduced endurance cost) to be detrimental thematically as it does not indicate increased proffiency in a character's skill as he levels.

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If the player doesn't like it, they should move on to a game that has no endurance, mana, stamina, etc.

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They can do that. However, I very much doubt that players leaving this game for another is a desirable outcome from the perspective of the developers.

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I agree, but I'm not arguing for or against the developers.

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Edit: One of the other underlying problems is of course that the endurance-effectiveness of most powers is pretty similar and follows a rigid formula. This deprives you of the tactics involved in using your powers smartly. Outside of prioritizing AEs over single target effects, there's little reason to prioritize, say, the individual Martial Arts attacks over each other.

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I mentioned this earlier in this post and truly believe this is a major problem.

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What I am saying, to be clear, is that the current endurance model is an example of poor game design. Not with respect to just tankers, but with respect to the game as a whole. It does not fit the genre, it is poorly calibrated, and it is at its worst during the period when you want to sell players on the game.

Forced downtime is generally anathema for MMORPGs. It is not even specific to gaming -- HCI research has pretty clearly documented why forcing users to wait (say, because of a slow-loading website) leads to frustration and in a commercial context can easily lose you customers. That is why normally forced downtime is only introduced with good cause: Because it increases immersion (such as travel through the world), as a penalty for failure (recovering from a team wipe, for example), or something similar. During normal play, it is generally minimized, because it leads to user frustration and in the worst case to canceled subscriptions.

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Forced downtime in limited quantities isn't so bad. Now back to what I was saying... and I undertand that it may appear I am on both sides of the fence but in all honesty, I don't believe catering to new players is what's best. However bad design should be fixed across all AT's and levels.

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IMHO, I think this is a part in the overall design and can't be limited to tankers. Adjusting endurance issues for tanks will do nothing for other AT's or tanks past lvl 20. But all of this is subjective to power selection, slotting and style of play. To expect to have everything handed to you (I was against the accuracy buff too) from the beginning of the game is a bit unfair. If you, I or anyone coming into the game doesn't realize that the blue bar and how much of it's left determines whether or not how I attack, then they have more to learn about mmo's or where failing in other mmo's to begin with.

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My suggestion pertains to all ATs ... it just happens that Tankers receive the worst brunt of it (and I tend to only post on the Tanker forums ).

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Fair enough. I posted something similar replying to sorciere.


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Within that context, CoH could be doing much better (imo) financially with a fairly small change and easily accomplished change to the current system.

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That's a whole other discussion and I'm not going to get into since I'd have to charge by the hour.


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P.S. - I happen to know you haven't spent more then half an hour on a toon that was less then L20 in the past least three months because I've power levelled most of em

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Btw, it's more like 45 mninutes. And that just means I don't want to grind through 20 like I did on a many other toons through content I've seen. Two separate issues. I mean really how often do I have sprint through AP and down to city hall only to just sprint on down to KR then Perez Park or Hollows till I can get a travel power? I just gave myself something else to air for and re-experiencing that lowbie content is pushed to the wayside.

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That you can learn to work around the issues does not make it good design. I haven't ever seen anybody put forward a good argument why being endurance-starved at low levels makes the game more interesting, reflects genre conventions properly (the opposite, if anything), or has some other positive property.

Absence of demonstrable harm is not the same as the presence of something good.

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I never said it was good design, the fact that a very large portion of toons have stamina may or may not prove bad design. I said that doing something about endurance should affect all AT's at level 20, not just tankers. And if indeed it an issue with tankers alone, then it should affect tankers of all levels, not just below level 20.

However, if you are going to play the game and see content past the first few levels then you have to watch your endurance. It defeats the purpose of an endurance bar to do otherwise. If the player doesn't like it, they should move on to a game that has no endurance, mana, stamina, etc.

If the slow-down for endurance is too much to bear then move on, don't spend your money here. And if the devs want to attract more players by removing some of the pitfalls at the lower levels then they shouldn't limit it to tanks at sub 20.

IMHO, I think this is a part in the overall design and can't be limited to tankers. Adjusting endurance issues for tanks will do nothing for other AT's or tanks past lvl 20. But all of this is subjective to power selection, slotting and style of play. To expect to have everything handed to you (I was against the accuracy buff too) from the beginning of the game is a bit unfair. If you, I or anyone coming into the game doesn't realize that the blue bar and how much of it's left determines whether or not how I attack, then they have more to learn about mmo's or where failing in other mmo's to begin with.

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Say Stars, how about tying the con of the enemy being targeted into the damage boost? Tiny extra damage for minion, respectable extra for EB, massive boost for AVs and GMs.

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I suggested that on page one.

And I'm still thinking about making it dependent on the amount of available gauntlet splash checks. More for single targets (again allowing for some other modifier higher ranks: GM's, AV's, EB's and down the heirarchy if you guys think this is necessary) and less for groups. But it should be a single amount and not one that stacks with each mob checked.

That's true to most if not all combos for tanks and the progression is not identical with DA's being late bloomers.

I think he means he's not asking for a flat increase to all damage.

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Ah yea I assumed he chose DA/SM (the most massive endurance suckage build possible ever

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Even this combo isn't as bad as you think.

That's more like it. I was having trouble with the parameters of power indicated. And yes I'm flat out opposed to a hero-brute or anything near superman levels, both thematically or in game.