City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Dark/Dark Def Build

ajax_cat

By ajax_cat,
Posted on: 2009-08-01 15:02 in Defenders

 

Posted

So I've decided to try a Dark/Dark Def because I love both powersets and being as Dark blast was one of the first powers to pick when I first started but never followed through with it for some other reasons I don't know lol. I want to make a decent build. SO!
Seeing as alot of the links don't work I've been kind of running into some ruts.

Basically what I want from this build is to Debuff, decent acc and dmg for a D/D Def

So I have this blueprint of how I want to go about with it, Yet I'm unsure about the Nova. Personally I don't think it's really needed and could probably use another power. Also the Epic pool is not set in stone I just used Dark for the end consumption and dark embrace for the S/L and Neg/Tox Res.

Anyways feedback on the build or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 48 Technology Defender
Primary Power Set: Dark Miasma
Secondary Power Set: Dark Blast
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Dark Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Twilight Grasp -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Dark Blast -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Tar Patch -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Gloom -- Empty(A)
Level 6: Howling Twilight -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Shadow Fall -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Hover -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Fly -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Tenebrous Tentacles -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Night Fall -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Hasten -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Fearsome Stare -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Torrent -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Dark Servant -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Life Drain -- Empty(A)
Level 38: Blackstar -- Empty(A)
Level 41: Dark Consumption -- Empty(A)
Level 44: Dark Embrace -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Petrifying Gaze -- Empty(A)
Level 49: Tactics -- Empty(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance


~Amidst the blue skies, a link from past to future. The sheltering wings of the protector~

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volkz View Post
I'm unsure about the Nova.
Don't be. The damage is solid, anything that doesn't die is in the deepest circle of tohit debuff hell (Defender Blackstar is without peer for that), and Dark Consumption gets you right back into the fight.

Quote:
Also the Epic pool is not set in stone I just used Dark for the end consumption and dark embrace for the S/L and Neg/Tox Res.
Dark Consumption is good for the reason stated above. Dark Embrace is okay for an extra layer of damage resistance and damage debuff resistance, but it's yet another toggle to retoggle after you nuke, and as a dark miasmist, you really don't need more layers. Keep it if you like the look of the aura or for concept reasons, otherwise, it's not necessary.

Ditto for Maneuvers; if you need Karma for knockback protection, leave it in Shadow Fall, which remains a handy stealth toggle. Assault and Tactics have more worthwhile buffs if you can stand retoggling them every couple of minutes. Take Vengeance if you're going to dip that far into Leadership anyway.

Life Drain is iffy. Twilight Grasp is up more often and does about the same thing.

Howling Twilight but no Dark Pit? True, Howling Twilight has that autohit goodness, but Dark Pit recharges much faster, and the two stack together nicely.

Some may wonder why you have Petrifying Gaze but not Darkest Night, but I approve of your choices. A hard mez is sometimes needed for PvE, as the AI cheats and can use powers such as teleportation, heals, and pet summoning even when feared. And Darkest Night is largely unnecessary once you get Fearsome Stare, except for damage debuffing AVs and GMs.

Speaking of Fearsome Stare, some may wonder why Fearsome Stare is being put off to 26. Without Darkest Night, Fearsome Stare is going to be the backbone of your team and solo defense from level 12 all the way to level 50.

 

Posted

I agree with Rigel's post, but I would point out that Darkest Night also has -damage which is also nice for big game hunting.

Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.

 

Posted

Yep, there's only a little bit of tohit debuff resistance out there, but when it's resisted, it's huge -- virtual immunity. Damage debuffing comes in nicely in those cases... drop a Tar Patch as usual to weaken their damage debuff resistance, then spam the heck out of Twilight Grasp, and add Darkest Night to the mix if you've got it. Spam Apprentice Charm too if you're really desperate.

 

Posted

Ok So I appreciate all the feedback I've gotten and have taken into account whats been said and created this blueprint.
I do plan on doing lots of teaming seeing as I don't solo much. But was wondering if I'll be able to survive like this? and maybe was thinking of taking SJ for CJ defenses bonuses

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 48 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Dark Miasma
Secondary Power Set: Dark Blast
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Dark Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Twilight Grasp -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Dark Blast -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Tar Patch -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Gloom -- Empty(A)
Level 6: Howling Twilight -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Hover -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Fearsome Stare -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Fly -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Tenebrous Tentacles -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Night Fall -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Darkest Night -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Shadow Fall -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Hasten -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Dark Pit -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Dark Servant -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Maneuvers -- Empty(A)
Level 38: Blackstar -- Empty(A)
Level 41: Dark Consumption -- Empty(A)
Level 44: Petrifying Gaze -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Tactics -- Empty(A)
Level 49: Vengeance -- Empty(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance


~Amidst the blue skies, a link from past to future. The sheltering wings of the protector~

 

Posted

I think that Darkest Night is the very first defining power. Yes it may not have great -tohit to start with but other people who have defenses could stack with it. This will mean less healing and a more end efficient build. I took it right after Twilight Grasp at lvl 2 but really, in a good team it's better than that.

Your build is looking rather similar to mine except without the slots. I put 2 Mids Windows next to eachother, one of mine and one of yours, clicked left to right and thought "Hax!!!"

I am not done leveling and so I am not finished deciding but this is my Work In Progress:

[color:#489AFF]Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401[/color]
[color:#489AFF]http://www.cohplanner.com/[/color]

[color:#B1C9F5]Click this DataLink to open the build![/color]

[color:#489AFF]Miami Miasma def:[/color][color:#B3CAF7] Level 50 Magic Defender[/color]
[color:#489AFF]Primary Power Set: [/color][color:#B3CAF7]Dark Miasma[/color]
[color:#489AFF]Secondary Power Set: [/color][color:#B3CAF7]Dark Blast[/color]
[color:#489AFF]Power Pool: [/color][color:#B3CAF7]Teleportation[/color]
[color:#489AFF]Power Pool: [/color][color:#B3CAF7]Fitness[/color]
[color:#489AFF]Power Pool: [/color][color:#B3CAF7]Leadership[/color]
[color:#489AFF]Ancillary Pool: [/color][color:#B3CAF7]Dark Mastery[/color]

[color:#489AFF]Hero Profile:[/color]
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 1:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Twilight Grasp[/color] [color:#489AFF]--[/color] [color:#7AA4EF]Nictus-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Heal[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Nictus-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg[/color](3)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Nictus-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Heal[/color](3)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Nictus-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/EndRdx/Heal/HP/Regen[/color](5)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Nictus-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/EndRdx/Rchg[/color](5)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Nictus-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]%Dam[/color](9)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 1:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Dark Blast[/color] [color:#489AFF]--[/color] [color:#7AA4EF]Decim-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Dmg[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Decim-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Dmg/EndRdx[/color](23)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Decim-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Dmg/Rchg[/color](23)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Decim-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/EndRdx/Rchg[/color](40)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Decim-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Dmg/Rchg[/color](46)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 2:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Darkest Night[/color] [color:#489AFF]--[/color] [color:#7AA4EF]DarkWD-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]ToHitDeb[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]DarkWD-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]ToHitDeb/EndRdx[/color](7)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]DarkWD-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx[/color](7)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]DarkWD-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Rchg/EndRdx[/color](9)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 4:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Tar Patch[/color] [color:#489AFF]--[/color] [color:#8BAFF1]RechRdx[/color][color:#8BAFF1]-I[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#8BAFF1]RechRdx[/color][color:#8BAFF1]-I[/color](11)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 6:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Howling Twilight[/color] [color:#489AFF]--[/color] [color:#8BAFF1]EndRdx[/color][color:#8BAFF1]-I[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#8BAFF1]EndRdx[/color][color:#8BAFF1]-I[/color](19)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 8:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Shadow Fall[/color] [color:#489AFF]--[/color] [color:#7AA4EF]ImpArm-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]ResDam/EndRdx[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]ImpArm-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]EndRdx/Rchg[/color](11)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]S'fstPrt-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]ResKB[/color](17)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]ImpArm-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg[/color](17)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]ImpArm-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]ResDam[/color](19)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 10:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Recall Friend[/color] [color:#489AFF]--[/color] [color:#8BAFF1]EndRdx[/color][color:#8BAFF1]-I[/color](A)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 12:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Fearsome Stare[/color] [color:#489AFF]--[/color] [color:#7AA4EF]Abys-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Rchg[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Abys-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]EndRdx/Fear[/color](13)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Abys-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/EndRdx[/color](13)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Abys-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Fear/Rng[/color](15)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Abys-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Fear/Rchg[/color](15)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 14:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Teleport[/color] [color:#489AFF]--[/color] [color:#8BAFF1]EndRdx[/color][color:#8BAFF1]-I[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#5EAEFF]EndRdx[/color](40)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 16:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Swift[/color] [color:#489AFF]--[/color] [color:#8BAFF1]Run[/color][color:#8BAFF1]-I[/color](A)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 18:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Health[/color] [color:#489AFF]--[/color] [color:#7AA4EF]Mrcl-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Heal[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Mrcl-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Rcvry+[/color](43)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Numna-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Regen/Rcvry+[/color](43)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 20:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Stamina[/color] [color:#489AFF]--[/color] [color:#8BAFF1]EndMod[/color][color:#8BAFF1]-I[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]P'Shift-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]EndMod[/color](21)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]P'Shift-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]End%[/color](21)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 22:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Assault[/color] [color:#489AFF]--[/color] [color:#8BAFF1]EndRdx[/color][color:#8BAFF1]-I[/color](A)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 24:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Tactics[/color] [color:#489AFF]--[/color] [color:#7AA4EF]AdjTgt-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]ToHit[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]AdjTgt-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]ToHit/Rchg[/color](25)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]AdjTgt-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg[/color](25)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]AdjTgt-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]EndRdx/Rchg[/color](36)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]AdjTgt-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]ToHit/EndRdx[/color](45)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 26:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Dark Pit[/color] [color:#489AFF]--[/color] [color:#7AA4EF]Amaze-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Stun[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Amaze-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Stun/Rchg[/color](27)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Amaze-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Stun/Rchg[/color](27)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Amaze-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Rchg[/color](37)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Amaze-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]EndRdx/Stun[/color](37)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#8BAFF1]EndRdx[/color][color:#8BAFF1]-I[/color](48)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 28:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Tenebrous Tentacles[/color] [color:#489AFF]--[/color] [color:#7AA4EF]GravAnch-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Immob[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]GravAnch-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Immob/Rchg[/color](29)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]GravAnch-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Immob/Rchg[/color](29)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]GravAnch-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Rchg[/color](36)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]GravAnch-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Immob/EndRdx[/color](37)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#8BAFF1]EndRdx[/color][color:#8BAFF1]-I[/color](48)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 30:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Petrifying Gaze[/color] [color:#489AFF]--[/color] [color:#7AA4EF]G'Wdw-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Rchg[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]G'Wdw-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]EndRdx/Hold[/color](31)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]G'Wdw-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/EndRdx[/color](31)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]G'Wdw-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Hold/Rng[/color](31)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]G'Wdw-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Hold/Rchg[/color](34)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 32:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Dark Servant[/color] [color:#489AFF]--[/color] [color:#7AA4EF]UbrkCons-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Hold/Rchg[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]UbrkCons-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Rchg[/color](33)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]DampS-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]ToHitDeb/Rchg/EndRdx[/color](33)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]DampS-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]ToHitDeb/EndRdx[/color](33)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]DarkWD-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]ToHitDeb/EndRdx[/color](34)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]DarkWD-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx[/color](34)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 35:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Vengeance[/color] [color:#489AFF]--[/color] [color:#5EAEFF]DefBuff[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#5EAEFF]DefBuff[/color](36)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#5EAEFF]DefBuff[/color](46)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 38:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Blackstar[/color] [color:#489AFF]--[/color] [color:#7AA4EF]Sciroc-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Dmg[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Sciroc-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Dmg/EndRdx[/color](39)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Sciroc-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Dmg/Rchg[/color](39)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Sciroc-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Rchg[/color](39)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Sciroc-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Dmg/EndRdx[/color](40)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 41:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Dark Consumption[/color] [color:#489AFF]--[/color] [color:#7AA4EF]P'Shift-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]EndMod[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]P'Shift-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]EndMod/Rchg[/color](42)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]P'Shift-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]EndMod/Acc/Rchg[/color](42)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]P'Shift-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Rchg[/color](42)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]P'Shift-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]EndMod/Acc[/color](43)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 44:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Dark Embrace[/color] [color:#489AFF]--[/color] [color:#7AA4EF]ImpArm-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]ResDam/EndRdx[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]ImpArm-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]ResPsi[/color](45)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]ImpArm-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]ResDam[/color](45)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]ImpArm-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg[/color](46)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 47:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Soul Drain[/color] [color:#489AFF]--[/color] [color:#7AA4EF]AdjTgt-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]ToHit[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]AdjTgt-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]ToHit/Rchg[/color](48)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]AdjTgt-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg[/color](50)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]AdjTgt-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]EndRdx/Rchg[/color](50)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]AdjTgt-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Rchg[/color](50)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 49:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Oppressive Gloom[/color] [color:#489AFF]--[/color] [color:#8BAFF1]Acc[/color][color:#8BAFF1]-I[/color](A)
[color:#489AFF]------------[/color]
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 1:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Brawl[/color] [color:#489AFF]--[/color] [color:#5EAEFF]Empty[/color](A)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 1:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Sprint[/color] [color:#489AFF]--[/color] [color:#5EAEFF]Empty[/color](A)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 2:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Rest[/color] [color:#489AFF]--[/color] [color:#5EAEFF]Empty[/color](A)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 1:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Vigilance[/color]

He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

In my experience as a Dark Defender of 5 years, primarily solo, I would drop Tenebrous Tentacles and Nightfall. Glad to see Torrent and Life Drain were dropped. Then get Shadow Fall, Dark Pit, and Petrifying Gaze in there sooner. You may also want to grab Moonbeam. Howling Twilight is often nice as a stun, but I think you can put it off until later. As for Dark Mastery, I like them all.

 

Posted

I agree with Shannon; though Darkest Night can be skipped, it's tough leveling up without it. And it'll always retain situational usefulness against stuff that can't be tohit debuffed as well as when exemplaring. If you must must must drop another primary, Darkest Night can be it, but at least take it the first time through low levels until you get Fearsome Stare + SOs, and only respec out of it on a second soloing build if you can.

Survivability? Not an issue. Debt doesn't happen* when a D3 is around. By not having to worry about debt, you can focus on jumping in head first and learning useful skills, like stealthing, herding, cone aiming, anchor selection, how to find good teams, and where to stock up on Break Frees.

Speaking of stealth, Recall Friend may be useful if you have a dual build dedicated to task forcing. Not for rezzing (just start thinking of Howling Twilight as an autohit stun rather than a rez -- remember, debt doesn't happen*), but for wraithing straight to bosses and letting your teammates help you pwn them.

Dropping Tenebrous Tentacles and Night Fall may be okay if you have a second build strictly for soloing, but on a team, cone blasts are a big help for keeping up with controllers on damage.

*Exception: Debt does happen when a teammate selflessly runs ahead to sacrifice himself on the next spawn, to let your blue bar refill with Vigilance and let you use Vengeance on the team. This is somewhat uncommon, though, and sometimes the teammate goes temporarily crazy, saying odd, angry, paranoid things and quitting the team, so don't feel obliged to save your autohit stun for such an occasion.

P.S. Note to self : Ask Vanden to correct the Howling Twilight icon to "stun" instead of "rez" in the next Vidiotmaps icon pack, to signify its proper use.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightingale_NA View Post
In my experience as a Dark Defender of 5 years, primarily solo, I would drop Tenebrous Tentacles and Nightfall. Glad to see Torrent and Life Drain were dropped. Then get Shadow Fall, Dark Pit, and Petrifying Gaze in there sooner. You may also want to grab Moonbeam. Howling Twilight is often nice as a stun, but I think you can put it off until later. As for Dark Mastery, I like them all.

What?

Nightfall is one of the best damage scale cone attacks in the game. I would never recommend dropping it, and I solo the vast majority of the time. I also don't recommend dropping Tenebrous Tentacles, because it is part of your control. It keeps foes in Tar Patch, and keeps them away from you. This is important layering with Fearsome Stare, because fear does not ensure a foe doesn't move, and sometimes one or the other will miss or a foe will have protection from one or the other. You're far safer when foes cannot reach you in melee range - having three powers to help play keep away (Tar Patch, Fearsome Stare and Tenebrous Tents) is a dramatic increase in safety even without the other benefits of TP and FS. Having cones means you can damage more foes at once. Even solo, you can pull multiple spawns with Darkest Night onto a Tar Patch, fear and immobilize them, and then defeat them all simultaneously with NF+TT. Defeating more foes at a time means better endurance efficiency and better XP/time (unless it takes you a long time to group them).

I have both, and I slot TT as an attack. With slotting and/or global recharge boosts such as Hasten or IOs, it is pretty trivial to stack TT even on bosses.

I have 100 levels of Dark/Dark, one Defender and one Corruptor, also mostly solo. I do not recommend Dark Pit. The duration to recharge ratio is too low for my tastes, by which I mean that it cannot be stacked with itself, even at very high recharge. If you want longer-lasting stun, or to stun a boss, you are forced to stack it with Howling Twilight. But Howling Twilight has an even worse duration/recharge ratio, and is tremendously expensive in endurance to use as a stun. I reserve HT for debuffing hard targets' regen rate, for rezzing allies when I team, and use it as a stun only in emergencies, when I am being overrrun and/or my other appropriate powers are recharging. Essentially, I find the other powers in the sets obviate the need to rely on such low duty cycle, mag 2 stuns the vast majority of the time.

If you do go with the Dark epic pool, Dark Pit becomes somewhat more attractive because you can now stack it with Oppressive Gloom. It still has poor recharge, of course, but now you can be sure to always stack it with OG when it does come up. However, there is a mild conflict with the Dark epic's PBAoE powers and Dark Blast's cone attacks. If you don't mind leaping back and forth to leverage both, you'll be fine.

I agree that Life Drain is very optional. I would take either it or Moonbeam, but probably not both. LD is a suitable improvement of your single-target attack chain, which is helpful, but it's not a great improvement, and it is shorter range than your other two blasts. Moonbeam isn't a good part of a single target chain, but it is nice for pulling, opening a fight with a bang, or picking off a damaged runner.

Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

This seems as good a thread as any:

I've been playing around with a Dark/Dark defender and I have to say I kinda don't get the control powers. Why would I stun stuff when I could just make everything whiff and do damage at the same time? I find myself only wanting to take the core of Dark/Dark with a ton of slots left over. For the record I like to mix teaming with a bit of soloing (especially more challenging solo stuff).

Here's what I'm currently looking at:

01 => Dark Blast ==> Empty(1)
01 => Twilight Grasp ==> Empty(1)
02 => Tar Patch ==> Empty(2)
04 => Darkest Night ==> Empty(4)
06 => Howling Twilight ==> Empty(6)
08 => Shadow Fall ==> Empty(8)
10 => Gloom ==> Empty(10)
12 => Hurdle ==> Empty(12)
14 => Health ==> Empty(14)
16 => Tenebrous Tentacles ==> Empty(16)
18 => Hasten ==> Empty(18)
20 => Stamina ==> Empty(20)
22 => Night Fall ==> Empty(22)
24 => Assault ==> Empty(24)
26 => Maneuvers ==> Empty(26)
28 => Combat Jumping ==> Empty(28)
30 => Super Jump ==> Empty(30)
32 => Dark Servant ==> Empty(32)
35 => Acrobatics ==> Empty(35)
38 => Tactics ==> Empty(38)
41 => Power Build Up ==> Empty(41)
44 => Temp Invulnerability ==> Empty(44)
47 => Total Focus ==> Empty(47)
49 => Conserve Power ==> Empty(49)

Am I missing something? Any other ideas on how to use my big pile of leftover powers? One thing I've considered is trying to see how how I can get my defense. It doesn't seem like I can quite softcap but I could make myself pretty resilient with tough/weave/IO's and boxing wouldn't be bad for filling in a single-target attack chain. Only problem seems to be that my end burn is already pretty high.

Is Acrobatics worth it? I find myself really annoyed at my lack of status protection but Acrobatics only seems to partially fill that in and the -KB I could get from IO's.

Tactics? Maybe Vengeance instead? 2 rez's seems like overkill.

Other ideas?

 

Posted

You should take Fearsome Stare. It's a devastating control power, making up for not being a "hard" control by being much more stackable than normal for AoE controls, and including a significant toHit debuff. If you either plan to team with teams that cannot steamroll everything instantly, or if you want to be able to take on large numbers of foes yourself, or you want a control that works against most foes even if they cannot be stunned or mezzed normally, you want this power, and you likely want to 6-slot it.

Trust me, as someone that's soloed such characters to 50 (and Dark Miasma with other blast sets as well), the debuffs alone aren't going to keep you totally safe. The best bet is to layer the controls and debuffs, and while even that's not perfect protection, it's a lot better.

Acro is nice against holds, but that's it. I no longer take it for KB protection unless I plan to regularly go up against very high mag KB, such as at Hamidon raids, Rikti Pylons, or in PvP. I use usually one KB protection IO instead.

Personally, I take Petrifying Gaze even if I don't use it that often. It's very nice for taking out a singular, troublesome foe (mezzing foes, healers, etc.), and your debuffs can buy you time to double stack it for bosses. (And that's "solo", your pet will use it too, just not always on the target you want.)

Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

Interetsing things im reading lol and getting mixed up just a little.

But to clearify that I will never,ever,evvvver solo this toon xD.

Also, I'm thinking of dropping Blackstar so I can take dark embrace. I just want a constant flow of debuffing and attacking going with some protection. And moonbeam tho seems cool is just another snipe power im not to fond of. I'm not sure why snipes are set up to take so long to shoot to alone do mediocre dmg...but thats whole nother topic lol anyways.

I do like Shannons setup hmm. Still tinkinering some more and I'll post a final build soon

Oh yes one thing about Dark Servant. whats the best way to go about slotting it?


~Amidst the blue skies, a link from past to future. The sheltering wings of the protector~

 

Posted

To the OP: You'll probably want to take Shadowfall a lot earlier than you did. There's a few times when I didn't pick it up as early as I could, and I always regretted it.

The 7.5% defense is really nice to stack with things like Darkest Night and Fearsome Stare before you've got SOs (you won't be flooring things until you've got stuff slotted). It makes a big difference.



To StGabe: TAKE FEARSOME STARE! Dark Miasma may sort of seem like it has many defining powers (Tar Patch, Darkest Night, Fluffy; it has a lot of good ones), but Fearsome Stare is at the top of them all. It is THE defining power of the set. There is no situation that cannot be made better with the liberal application of Fearsome Stare. To not take it and slot it (I usually slot for control over debuff) as soon as you can is to torture yourself needlessly. It's that good.




To Nobody in General: I also really don't like Petrifying Gaze, but that's mostly because I play a Dark/Rad. Rad Blast has Cosmic Burst, which happily fills my single-target control needs. Dark Blast has no such power, so Petrifying Gaze can be viewed as useful in its case.

 

Posted

Here is my level 50 Dark / Dark Defender build

Dark Requiem
Level 50 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Dark Miasma
Secondary Power Set: Dark Blast
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Teleportation
Ancillary Pool: Dark Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Tar Patch -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Dark Blast -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Gloom -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Twilight Grasp -- Empty(A)
Level 6: Darkest Night -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Howling Twilight -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Air Superiority --- (A)
Level 12: Fearsome Stare -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Fly -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Tenebrous Tentacles -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Stamina -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Shadow Fall -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Night Fall -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Petrifying Gaze -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Recall Friend --- (A)
Level 32: Dark Servant -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Moonbeam --- (A)
Level 38: Blackstar -- Empty(A)
Level 41: Dark Consumption -- Empty(A)
Level 44: Dark Embrace -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Soul Drain --- (A)
Level 49: Dark Pit --- (A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance


There was a guide on the US Forum some time back that described a Dark/Dark build but via two routes - one being a controllery type and the other a debuff. I went with a mix of both.

It went thru a respec in the late 30's and I swapped Dark Pit (30) for Recall Friend following a team wipe.

A lot of my time was spent solo so the build may reflect that.

I wouldn't be without Darkest Night, Fearsome Stare, Tentacles or Petrifying Gaze. I found these to be my staple powers throughout. Nightfall is a great cone damage that backs up Tentacles and Stare.

I haven't had a lot of opportunity to use the 'Nuke' so I can't comment on that.

Soul Drain and Dark Consumption and excellent.

Main Heroes: Dark Requiem 50+2, EarthGlade 50, Natures Wrath 50, Imperion 50, Spectral Echo 50, MydKnight 42, Flash-Point 42, Cascade Effect 39, Scirrocco 35, QuantunStarburst 41, EarthLight 35, Silver-thorne 32, StormFrost 35

Up and Coming: , DragonStorm, Metalworks

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by StGabe View Post
Why would I stun stuff when I could just make everything whiff and do damage at the same time?
Hard mezzes are good for when enemies do annoying things that don't need to-hit checks (so tohit debuffing doesn't help) and/or don't count as attacks (so the AI can cheat and use them while feared). Like healing. Buffing. Running away. Flying away. Teleporting away. Dropping quicksand under you. Dropping caltrops under you. Teabagging you while running Chill of the Night. That sort of stuff. Hard mezzes are also nice for snuffing enemy toggles.

Not so nice that you can't get by without hard mez, of course.

 

Posted

<QR>

Long time player of Dark/Dark... I have went with multiple builds over time. Never been really convinced that one was much better than another.

The stuns are not that good. You are hardly seeing the effect most of the time. Moreover, we are not controllers and will struggle to try to catch up with their controls.

In most team & solo situation, my take as Dark def is debuff, debuff, debuff and heal. To do so I need DN, Tar patch and TT for keeping mobs in one place. PetGaze helps with occasional annoying foe solo. Fluffy is a great addition as (s)he brings more of the same making me even more efficient.

I wouldn't pass on the AOE damage powers as today high-level game is essentially focused on large groups of mobs (or AVs).

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by _dEOS_ View Post
In most team & solo situation, my take as Dark def is debuff, debuff, debuff and heal. To do so I need DN, Tar patch and TT for keeping mobs in one place. PetGaze helps with occasional annoying foe solo. Fluffy is a great addition as (s)he brings more of the same making me even more efficient.
Don't forget Fearsome Stare. Its -ToHit is of the same magnitude as Darkest Night.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by _dEOS_ View Post
<QR>

Long time player of Dark/Dark... I have went with multiple builds over time. Never been really convinced that one was much better than another.
Same here, I've tried so many combinations I can't decide which is best. They all offer something different and usually emphasize just one of the many tools dark/dark offers. However, they all have fearsome stare and TT/NF combo.

 

Posted

I'm actually having problems on what should be slotted the most and least and also having so many options @_@ lol I have 20% of it slotted. Tho I do feel like dropping PG is it really useful of a power aganst AVs? because looking at that and fearsome stare they both have the same mag or am I missing something?


~Amidst the blue skies, a link from past to future. The sheltering wings of the protector~

 

Posted

Fearsome Stare is a gigantic cone fear. Petrifying Gaze is single-target hold.
They are both the same magnitude, but Fearsome Stare has a chance to apply an extra mag1 terrorize.

PG is just about useless against AVs.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volkz View Post
Tho I do feel like dropping PG is it really useful of a power aganst AVs? because looking at that and fearsome stare they both have the same mag or am I missing something?
PG is one of the weakest holds in the game. However, it does provide a mag 3 for emergencies (I consider Sappers, Sorcerers, Illusionists and Communications Officers to be 'emergencies' ;-) The only other benefit is that it stacks with Fluffy's Pet gaze for a mag 6 although this only is reliable when you have one target... like an AV.

I took it at lvl 44, and it is nice to have around. I could live without it.

Fearsome stare is the uber power, as has been alluded to several times in this thread. I personally prefer a more debuffing style, so I have my FS slotted with 2 Lysos (+acc/+tohit debuff) one Enzyme (+end/-tohit) and three pieces of Abyss (mostly for the rech). This really makes the debuff portion king, although the fear is just awesomesauce right out of the box. Makes this power ALWAYS useful, even against Nems and robots (who don't fear, but absolutely get debuffed).

 

Posted

This is what I use now , it is pretty effective team and solo in its current form. Posi in both cones is super fun when they proc ( and they do proc a lot )


Edit: Also, with this setup you have a 30% range Def, 20% melee and 43% resist so you can play in close with toggles.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Level 50 Natural Defender
Primary Power Set: Dark Miasma
Secondary Power Set: Dark Blast
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Dark Mastery

Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1: Twilight Grasp Acc-I:50(A), Nictus-Heal:50(5), Nictus-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg:50(13), Nictus-Acc/Heal:50(17), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Heal/HP/Regen:50(39), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:50(39)
Level 1: Dark Blast Thundr-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx:50(3), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg:50(9), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(15), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(19), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(36)
Level 2: Gloom Thundr-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx:50(3), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg:50(9), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(15), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(19), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(36)
Level 4: Tar Patch RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(5)
Level 6: Hasten RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(7), RechRdx-I:50(7)
Level 8: Shadow Fall RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:50(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg:50(11), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg:30(37), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(40), RedFtn-Def:50(40), RedFtn-EndRdx:50(46)
Level 10: Darkest Night DampS-ToHitDeb:50(A), DampS-ToHitDeb/Rchg:50(11), DampS-ToHitDeb/Rchg/EndRdx:50(31), DampS-Rchg/EndRdx:50(31), DampS-ToHitDeb/EndRdx:50(34)
Level 12: Fearsome Stare Abys-Acc/Rchg:50(A), Abys-EndRdx/Fear:50(13), Abys-Fear/Rng:50(17), Abys-Acc/Fear/Rchg:50(37), Abys-Acc/EndRdx:50(37)
Level 14: Super Speed Run-I:50(A)
Level 16: Hurdle Jump-I:50(A)
Level 18: Health Heal-I:50(A)
Level 20: Stamina EndMod-I:50(A), EndMod-I:50(21), EndMod-I:50(21)
Level 22: Night Fall Posi-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx:50(23), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:50(23), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(27), Posi-Dam%:50(29)
Level 24: Tenebrous Tentacles Posi-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:50(25), Posi-Dmg/Rng:50(25), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(27), Posi-Dam%:50(29)
Level 26: Howling Twilight RechRdx-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(46)
Level 28: Assault EndRdx-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(31)
Level 30: Maneuvers RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:50(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg:50(36), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg:50(39), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(40), RedFtn-Def:50(43), RedFtn-EndRdx:50(43)
Level 32: Dark Servant Acc-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(33), ToHitDeb-I:50(33), ToHitDeb-I:50(33), Heal-I:50(34), Heal-I:50(34)
Level 35: Vengeance DefBuff-I:50(A), DefBuff-I:50(48)
Level 38: Blackstar Oblit-Dmg:50(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg:50(42), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg:50(42), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(42), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(43), Oblit-%Dam:50(50)
Level 41: Oppressive Gloom Acc-I:50(A)
Level 44: Dark Embrace RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(45), RctvArm-ResDam:40(45), RctvArm-EndRdx:40(45), S'fstPrt-ResKB:30(46), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(48)
Level 47: Soul Drain Acc-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(48)
Level 49: Dark Consumption Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg:50(A), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg:50(50), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc:50(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance

 

Posted

Ok I've finally got my blueprint! heh no maneuvers basically because I wanted to focus on constant debuffing with acc and dmg, I also figured with shadow and embrace I'll be fine =]

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 48 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Dark Miasma
Secondary Power Set: Dark Blast
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Dark Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Twilight Grasp -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Dark Blast -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Tar Patch -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Gloom -- Empty(A)
Level 6: Howling Twilight -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Hover -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Fearsome Stare -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Fly -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Tenebrous Tentacles -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Night Fall -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Darkest Night -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Shadow Fall -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Hasten -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Dark Pit -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Dark Servant -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Assault -- Empty(A)
Level 38: Tactics -- Empty(A)
Level 41: Dark Consumption -- Empty(A)
Level 44: Dark Embrace -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Oppressive Gloom -- Empty(A)
Level 49: Vengeance -- Empty(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance


~Amidst the blue skies, a link from past to future. The sheltering wings of the protector~

 

Posted

I know I posted a build earlier in the thread but come back to say that its changed now and looking more like the final build that I will have for keeps after reading Darkity's Dark/Dark Guide here :

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=127276

I swapped out Oppressive Gloom for Black Hole as well as made some minor slotting changes elsewhere for things like better rechg in Howling Twilight and Twilight Grasp. A stealth IO in my teleport. Should someone die then between Vengeance and Shadowfall there is 45% def. Oppressive Gloom may not be the cool power I was looking for whereas Black hole can phase towers in the STF.

He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

Would never drop TT and NF, I did put 3 dmg procs in TT and 2 in NF and it's great. I usually hunt cim wall because spawns are perfectly line up for the cones. Plus in I16 we can do our own spawn size, so those powers are also great when soloing.

Originally Posted by Megajoule
We're being invaded. Again. This time, instead of aliens, zombies, or eyeballs with teeth, it's the marching band.