Dark Armor Vulnerabilities


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Posted

I'm contemplating rolling a new Fire Melee scrapper and having a little trouble figuring out which defense to take. I really like the mez protection offered by dark armor, but after reading a very thorough guide on it, I realized that it is weak against energy blasts (so i'm assuming there will be issues against rikti later on).

Is there a way to counter this weakness? Do I have to take tough/weave or maneuvers to make up for it?

Also, I read somewhere that DA is annoying with all the toggles. I"m not a huge fan of many toggles myself. Maybe I should roll a Force Field scrapper then?


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Posted

A force field scrapper? Uh, am I missing something here? Unless it's something being ported and I just don't about it, there's no such thing.

On DA, though, its resists are all fairly low, but you get a HUGE heal that generally makes up for it, and a few interesting crowd control toggles to prevent incoming damage. Energy damage isn't all that big of a deal - just know your enemy and smash them first. With extensive IO slotting, you can get your def pretty high as well.

Yeah, DA is toggle heavy, but most of the toggles will be fire and forget once you log in, or have to rez. Your biggest problem will be endurance, and knockback. DA tends to be a pretty active secondary - lots of strategic clicking and reacting to stuff, vs, say, SR, which you toggle on and then never mess with again. If you want an active secondary, DA can be a lot of fun.

Oh, and fire melee/DA looks badass, too.


 

Posted

I recommend Tough and Weave on pretty much every scrapper, though Tough won't do anything to solve the energy “weakness”. I'd personally just stack defense. You have a little bit in Cloak of Darkness. Add in Combat Jumping, Weave, Steadfast Protection in Tough, and some other defensive set bonuses here and there. It adds up. You could also pile on energy resistance, but I wouldn't approach it that way. I believe it's too hard to get much using that approach, though I admit I haven't tried. You'll also want to slot up Dark Regeneration, in particular dropping a Theft of Essence proc in there so that you can more easily spam it without burning out your endurance. Don't bother with enhancing the heal unless you spend a lot of time fighting single targets.

Some people have trouble managing endurance on Dark Armor, but there's nothing magical about it. You use the same endurance management techniques you use elsewhere – put an endurance in each toggle, one or two in each attack, grab Stamina at 20, frankenslot your attacks for endurance reduction when you're at a reasonable level, and so on. Of particular note is Death Shroud, which I think is poorly understood. Think of it as an attack. In particular, think of it as an AoE that costs only half the endurance of other AoEs. In other words, take it, slot it as an attack, and use it. If you have to slow down on your regular attacks, do that rather than turning off Death Shroud.

Dark Armor also doesn't have any knockback protection. If you have influence, I'd grab knockback protection from IOs. If not, Hover sort of works, or you can go for the Leaping pool and take Acrobatics. Both approaches eat yet more endurance, though, so taking care of it with IOs is preferable.

No idea what you mean about making a force field scrapper. But if you're looking at other secondaries, Fire/Shield is a major powerhouse. Fire/Super Reflexes is end game AV soloing for cheap. Any particular other secondaries you're looking at?


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by mintmiki View Post
I'm contemplating rolling a new Fire Melee scrapper and having a little trouble figuring out which defense to take. I really like the mez protection offered by dark armor, but after reading a very thorough guide on it, I realized that it is weak against energy blasts (so i'm assuming there will be issues against rikti later on).

Is there a way to counter this weakness? Do I have to take tough/weave or maneuvers to make up for it?
There isn't any method you can use to counter the specific weakness to energy that */DA has (well, you could go heavy on typed energy defense, but that's gonna be mostly a waste). Your best bet is simply to load up on stuff to help your blue bar (Stamina is a must, +end is awesome, as much +recov as you can) to make Dark Regen less painful and stack up on positional defense. You'll still be weaker to energy damage than anything else due simply to having less resistance to it than any other type, but you'll be safe enough that it won't matter much.

Quote:
Also, I read somewhere that DA is annoying with all the toggles. I"m not a huge fan of many toggles myself. Maybe I should roll a Force Field scrapper then?
First off, what do you mean by Force Field Scrapper? There isn't an FF secondary for Scrappers. Do you mean */Shield? */SR? */Invuln?

As to the toggles, DA has 7 but you should only be running 6 of them (choose either OG or CoF, not both), and the costs aren't too bad. Depending on whether you IO yourself while leveling, you'll probably want to pick up Acrobatics (and Combat Jumping as a pre-req). The Fighting Pool is simply golden for all types of Scrappers. All of that will be 10 toggles, which isn't really as much as you might think.


 

Posted

Wow, sorry, i meant shield. Apologies!


Thanks for the advice on the DA. I think I'm going to take the fighting pools and combat jumping to compensate. As for endurance, I'm a big fan of IO bonuses, but I can forgo a bonus or two in favor of a generic end redux IO slotted in each power. I also plan to 6 slot stamina, jes cause i like to, prolly with performance shifters.


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Huge thanks to cuppamanga and all the folks in the mac help forum for prolonging my borrowed time on this game.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by mintmiki View Post
I really like the mez protection offered by dark armor, but after reading a very thorough guide on it, I realized that it is weak against energy blasts (so i'm assuming there will be issues against rikti later on).
I am curious as to which guide you read.

Quote:
Is there a way to counter this weakness? Do I have to take tough/weave or maneuvers to make up for it?
Just slot for positional defense. Strive for 25-30% and you'll do very well.


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Posted

It's not weak, it's just less. 30% is nothing to shy from. When it comes to slotting, typed or positional will work for you and Rikti will not be a problem. You have other mitigation that works well against them.

Since you've mentioned IO's, toggle popping shouldn't be a problem and you can fire/forget if you socket for end redux and increase your endurance. I fire and forget my 8 toggles, 9 with sprint.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jebe_the_Pirate View Post
It's not weak, it's just less. 30% is nothing to shy from. When it comes to slotting, typed or positional will work for you and Rikti will not be a problem. You have other mitigation that works well against them.

Since you've mentioned IO's, toggle popping shouldn't be a problem and you can fire/forget if you socket for end redux and increase your endurance. I fire and forget my 8 toggles, 9 with sprint.
actually I thought it was only in the low 20's like 24%...and I would say that energy is the achillies heel for dark armor unless you io them out to get lots of positional defense like des suggested


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetargos View Post
actually I thought it was only in the low 20's like 24%...and I would say that energy is the achillies heel for dark armor unless you io them out to get lots of positional defense like des suggested

I think Jebe was referring to Dark Armor's other resistances, since Joy Division claimed all Dark Armor resistances were low. For the sake of clarity, using only Dark Armor toggles, resistance values are as follows:
  • 34-35% Smashing
    34-35% Lethal
    34-35% Fire
    34-35% Cold
    46-47% Neg. Energy
    57-58% Psi
    23-24% Energy


As Zetargos pointed out, with out IOs, Energy Damage is Dark Armor's Achilles Heel. Dark Armor's other mitigation options can alleviate that, but the most effective way to deal with it is to add positional defense; mainly because it simultaneously improves all of Dark Armor's survivability.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desmodos View Post
I am curious as to which guide you read.

yours.

Thanks much! fantastic guide


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Huge thanks to cuppamanga and all the folks in the mac help forum for prolonging my borrowed time on this game.

 

Posted

I want a Force Fields Scrapper


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by mintmiki View Post
yours.

Thanks much! fantastic guide

I'm glad you liked the guide, but I am curious as to which part led you to believe Dark Armor would struggle against Rikti. Perhaps I need to improve/clarify a section, come next update.

I intended to point out Dark Armor's vulnerability to Energy damage so a player could chose how to compensate. If it suggests a player can't compensate, then I need to tweak some things.

Now Rularuu Watchers, Observers, and Overseers will tear you up...but that's most everyone.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverado View Post
I want a Force Fields Scrapper

As I read the beginning, I was thinking we don't have these, but, it would not be that bad of an addition. but after thinking about it, it probably wouldn't be to different than SR.


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Posted

Personally...I much prefere to keep the energy damage weakness and be able to cap NEgative Energy Resistance But that's probably just me.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desmodos View Post
I'm glad you liked the guide, but I am curious as to which part led you to believe Dark Armor would struggle against Rikti. Perhaps I need to improve/clarify a section, come next update.
Don't headman blasters and drones use energy attacks? I could be wrong. i just assumed.

Quote:
I intended to point out Dark Armor's vulnerability to Energy damage so a player could chose how to compensate. If it suggests a player can't compensate, then I need to tweak some things.
my question was not if a player can compensate, but what do you suggest would be the best way to compensate.


I ended up making two new FM scrappers and have been playing them each lvl by lvl. The FM/DA scrapper seems to be outdamaging the FM/Invuln. one (lvls 1-5). Endurance is an issue, but not as much as I expected (even without enhancements). Now I'm thinking about rolling a DM/DA scrapper, just cause I like what I'm seeing.


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basically, if you see a miki on Triumph, it's probably cute and it's probably me.

Huge thanks to cuppamanga and all the folks in the mac help forum for prolonging my borrowed time on this game.

 

Posted

My Kat/Da scrapper was my first and is still my fave to use. She taught me good endurance management and can deal some heavy damage. She went to 50 fairly quickly. I love OG.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by mintmiki View Post
Don't headman blasters and drones use energy attacks? I could be wrong. i just assumed.
Yes they do. Headman blasters don't shoot very fast and often switch to melee if you engage them in melee. Drones have high perception and wicked accuracy but are rather fragile. They have high defense to melee and ranged attacks, but not AoEs, hence Death Shroud and Whirling Sword make very short work of drones. Both are susceptable to CoF and OG.

Lesson here; Dark Armor follows Art of War rules.


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Posted

When it comes to aoes you don't get enough effect per endurance point unless you use it on a certain amount of targets, generally if I am looking at less than 4 targets I would probably turn them off however there are sometimes reasons to keep them on. With cone attacks given the option I generally would not use them unless I feel I would hit atleast 2 targets. Its about trying to get the same effect per endpoint as you would with a single target attack. It generally matters most to me from the lower levels and matters less in the higher ones due to gaining slots.


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Posted

Sorry about that, I was working off tanker resist values (I know, I know) but the point stands. It's just less and can be managed. As suggested defense bonuses from IO's help greatly here, Eradications go along way (+max end, E/NE defense) if you have several PBAoE's. And as Desmodos suggested, positioning against Rikti does a lot for your survivability. I engage rikti to put them in melee range (some of the ranged attacks don't have a smashing component) and position myself so I munch away the Drones with Death Shroud, Quills, and spine burst.

Oh and Rularuu Overseers will F U up.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannon_EU View Post
When it comes to aoes you don't get enough effect per endurance point unless you use it on a certain amount of targets, generally if I am looking at less than 4 targets I would probably turn them off however there are sometimes reasons to keep them on. With cone attacks given the option I generally would not use them unless I feel I would hit atleast 2 targets. Its about trying to get the same effect per endpoint as you would with a single target attack. It generally matters most to me from the lower levels and matters less in the higher ones due to gaining slots.
While I understand what you are getting it, this really does not hold true for Death Shroud. I'll let a number cruncher go into the specifics, but the endurance cost of Death Shroud becomes very efficient at just two targets. Outside of GM/AV fights or stealthing, there is no reason to turn Death Shroud off. Running increases your overall endurance efficiency.

In the case of Rikti Drones, you are better off using a an AoE on a single drone than attempting to hit it with a single target attack. Your probability of missing kills any endurance efficiency from single target attacks. In other words, 1 Whirling Sword is cheaper than two or three Hacks. Better yet, just stand there an let Death Shroud finish them off.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desmodos View Post
Yes they do. Headman blasters don't shoot very fast and often switch to melee if you engage them in melee. Drones have high perception and wicked accuracy but are rather fragile. They have high defense to melee and ranged attacks, but not AoEs, hence Death Shroud and Whirling Sword make very short work of drones. Both are susceptable to CoF and OG.
Just a few notes::

Drones have +20% Accuracy. It's higher than usual, yes, but it's not anywhere as bad as, say, Rularuu eyeballs.
Whirling Sword is a melee attack, not AoE. It would check against the Drone's 35% melee def. (A lot of melee AoEs are flagged in this way.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desmodos View Post
While I understand what you are getting it, this really does not hold true for Death Shroud. I'll let a number cruncher go into the specifics, but the endurance cost of Death Shroud becomes very efficient at just two targets. Outside of GM/AV fights or stealthing, there is no reason to turn Death Shroud off. Running increases your overall endurance efficiency.
Scrapper single target attacks have an efficiency of ~12.03 DPE**. Death Shroud also has a DPE of ~12.03**. This means that killing an enemy with normal st attacks vs Death Shroud costs the exact same endurance. The big difference to using both is that you're dealing damage faster, thus consuming more end.

To put it another way, it will take ~35.8 end to kill a minion** either way, but by killing faster, you have less time for your recovery to offset it.


** These are unslotted numbers.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarrate View Post
Just a few notes::

Drones have +20% Accuracy. It's higher than usual, yes, but it's not anywhere as bad as, say, Rularuu eyeballs.
See my comments on Rularuu ;-)

Quote:
Whirling Sword is a melee attack, not AoE. It would check against the Drone's 35% melee def. (A lot of melee AoEs are flagged in this way.)
Yeah...I recall that now after reading your post. I like to use Soul Drain against Drones which is in fact flagged as an AoE. I instinctly use Whirling Sword on Drones thinking AoE mentality though it doesn't actually have a better chance of hitting them, my bad.



Quote:
Scrapper single target attacks have an efficiency of ~12.03 DPE**. Death Shroud also has a DPE of ~12.03**. This means that killing an enemy with normal st attacks vs Death Shroud costs the exact same endurance. The big difference to using both is that you're dealing damage faster, thus consuming more end.

To put it another way, it will take ~35.8 end to kill a minion** either way, but by killing faster, you have less time for your recovery to offset it.


** These are unslotted numbers.
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