JKCarrier

I'm sorry you had a bad time. But it's also a relief to hear that I'm not the only one who has experiences like this. Every so often, I think "Gee, TFs are such a big part of the game, and so many people seem to like them, I should give them another chance." And then I do a few, and remember that they're all either a long, tedious grind, have a ridiculous boss at the end, or both. I'm glad people enjoy them, but I just find them a frustrating slog.

I was hoping for an interpretive dance. Or possibly smoke signals.

Obviously, I didn't mean it would literally turn into PvP. But the debate is already falling into a similar pattern:

"It's easy and fun. You're just afraid of a challenge and should Lrn2Play. If you can't hack it, you don't deserve the goodies."
vs.
"It's a miserable grind. You're just a min-maxing munchkin waving their e-peen around. I should be able to get the goodies without being forced into a playstyle I don't enjoy."

Sound familiar?

Hmmm...an allegedly optional side-game, based on 1337-ness, that nonetheless grants rewards that will be extremely useful in the main game...yup, it's PvP all over again.

That's pretty much my experience as well. One of the reasons I like zone events and ship raids better than TFs is because randomly flailing around is generally an acceptable strategy for those.

I can relate to this, too. I've had pretty good luck with the LGTF, but I've been on as many failed ITFs as successful ones. And the handful of STFs and LRSFs I've tried have all been a bust. I won't say that they necessarily require specific powers to succeed, but they clearly require something that I don't have much of.

I thought that sneering sounded familiar. No doubt they'll come up with a disparaging nickname, ala "carebears", for any lvl 50s who don't choose to participate in the incarnate system.

Yes.

Probably.

Yes, I had a Common Cardiac Boost slotted.

I was not seeing the "warning glow" that is supposed to show up before the patch activates. But it may be that I just didn't know what to look for, or I was too distracted by flying swords and such.

I'm sure that's part of it. I'm no good at the ski run either.

I appreciate the thought, but I don't plan on running it again any time soon.

That's a laudable attitude, but trust me, you don't want me on your Apex team. The one time I played it, I spent probably 90% of the time running back from the hospital, and we never did manage to take out Battle Maiden. I won't say the failure was all my fault, but I certainly contributed, and that wasn't a very good feeling. I don't want to be the anchor dragging everyone else down, especially when there's special rewards (shards, badges) at stake.

I'm glad that there's harder content for the people who want it. But in their zeal to appeal to that group, I hope the devs don't forget about the rest of us n00bs and lamerz.

Causing lots of arguments in the forums?

Have a great holiday, you crazy devs!

Well, exactly. What if your character concept IS an underaged girl like Jubilee, or (early years) Kitty Pryde, or one of the kids from Power Pack or the Runaways, or the Carrie Kelly version of Robin? There's plenty of precedent for it.

This analogy only works if you consider all missions to be unpleasant tasks, and the inf, salvage, etc. is the only reason we go through them. I don't think that's true for most people. We spend a lot of time going through maps and beating up bad guys...if that wasn't fun in and of itself, then the electronic "Monopoly money" we get at the end of the mish wouldn't be worth it. The rewards are not the point; fun is the point, and the drops are bonuses that add to the fun (as well as being a means to facilitate optional side-games like crafting and marketeering).

As I said before, not all missions are created equal. And a while back, the devs (quite wisely, IMHO) realized that letting a single mission be a roadblock to a player's progress -- whether because it was bugged, or too difficult, or just tedious -- was not conducive to fun, and gave us the option to auto-complete it and get on with the game. Sure, theoretically someone could skip their way through the whole game (in extreme slow motion) by auto-completing every 3 days, but anyone who would do that obviously doesn't enjoy the game very much and isn't likely to stick around long anyway. For the rest of us, being able to get past that One Stupid Mission That Drives Us Crazy (we all have one -- mine is "Stop 30 Fir Bolg Entering Door") is a blessing.

"Audacity"? Really? This whole business of "How DARE they?" is what boggles my mind. You go beat up the Honoree, and someone else skips it. You're both happy. Life goes on. Dogs and cats do not start living together. Am I missing some material harm that will occur here?

That's not much of a reason, since that choice has absolutely no effect on your character or the story.

Except this isn't a job, and I'm not an employee. I'm a customer, and no matter what rewards I get in the game, I'm not getting them for "nothing", because I'm paying real cash every month just to get in the door.

People play this game for different reasons. Some people want a white-knuckle hardcore challenge, and that's awesome. More power to 'em. Other folks just want to kick back, beat up some bad guys and collect some shinies without stressing out about it. And that's great too. Soloing the STF on +4/x8 doesn't make you a morally better person than someone who cruises through the game on -1/x1 and autocompletes any mission with an EB in it. The point here is to have fun, and as long as someone isn't breaking the EULA or interfering with your play, they're not doing anything "wrong".

I think this is an excellent summation, and explains perfectly why some people see Apex as a refreshing change, and others see it as the devs kicking them in the jimmies.

Whether you really, really want to spoil it, or just kinda want to spoil it, my question remains: Why?

"Right" in what way? Do you see this as a moral issue?

Not all parts of the game are created equal, and not everyone enjoys the same things. Finding ways to minimize the time spent on the parts you find tedious or otherwise un-fun is pretty common. Is it wrong for me not to do the Outbreak Tutorial every time I roll a new alt?

I never said you weren't entitled to speak your opinion. I'm just trying to figure out what's so objectionable about an option that would enhance other people's enjoyment, while still allowing you to play exactly the way you want. Seems like a win/win to me.

Since allowing other people to drop the mission would have zero impact on your playstyle and enjoyment, that seems like pure spitefulness. No one is trying to stop you from gathering a big team and cranking the difficulty slider to the max, so why are you so determined to spoil someone else's good time?

I imagine he wouldn't stand waist-deep in hot lava, either.

I really don't see how this is any more expolit-y than the pulling that people do routinely in every other part of the game. Are they going to nerf separating Romulus from the healing Nictus in ITF too? Or pulling the individual Freedom Phalanxers in LRSF?

It's a bog-standard tactic in this game. You might as well outlaw rocket-jumping in Quake.

BOOOOOOO!

YAAAAAAY!

Don't waste a Mission Complete on that one. You're not required to fight the Time Echoes. You can just head straight to Ramiel, click on him, and you're done.

The Apex team I was on had everyone slotted up. We double-checked everyone's buff icons before we started. Once we got to Battle Maiden and her Circles of Death, it was team wipe after team wipe until we finally gave up.

I'm not saying it should be nerfed (I'm not saying it shouldn't, either). But just because you and your friends are breezing through it doesn't mean that everyone else is.