Innigo

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This is not overall preparation these are common ways to deal with stalkers. Following some of them might actually help you.

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Most aren't possible to follow a lot of the time. You seem keen to ignore that fact.

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In all the time i PvP this hasnt happen to me.Simply because i PvP for the fun and i not try go solo, i am always prepared in the PvP zones i go and leaving the build outside i rarely stand still long enough to be a target. I mainly wait the stalkers to attack someone else for me to trap them

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Correct me if I'm wrong but don't you have hurricane running ALL the time? Can stalkers actually get near you? Last time I saw you in Siren's you barely moved 20feet in over 10 minutes.
Can I ask you to look at this from the point of view of someone who doesn't have AoEs, perception bonuses or holds, generally a finely tuned PvP build and is in Siren's when a team with the anti-stalker composition isn't available.

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I not see the problem. Dedicating a toon to PvP means you want to be good at it and you are willing to go all PvP. Keeping it casual means you are there for the fun and you should expect the dedicated PvPers to have an advantage over you. This is not irrational. Otherwise we should only fight with brawl in the PvP zones. You are telling us here your problem is that you wanna kill a lot but you wanna do it casually? Not likely to happen because the people that spend a lot of time inside the PvP zones are dedicated to it and simply are on a different level. There is nothing wrong to that tbh.

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I'm sorry, in another post you're saying "good" had nothing to do with game physics, now you're saying it is? How curious.
But Ill tell you what's wrong with it, most people aren't going to throw themselves headlong into PvP, they'll come to it gradually. If the PvP builds have too much of an advantage over PvE build new players are going to be discouraged and PvP will remain practiced by a tiny minority.
Consider this, there's three PvP zones, the mating point for 2 games, yet they're always quiet. I don't think I;ve seen more than 7 or 8 players in Siren's (that's not to suggest there aren't more on at other times), which is less players than you usually find in most of the CoH zones (one 1 or the 2 games) at any given time.
As a rough estimate I'd say you've got maybe between 2 to 5% of players across CoH/CoV PvPing at any given time. Not exactly what I'd call popular. You want it to stay that way? If it does, how much more PvP content are crptic going to invest their time in?

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2 Blappers. Should we continue?

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2 blappers can bring down a target with one attack each? Out of curiousity, which attack?

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Try to think it round and get a pvp character if you really want to be good at PVP, if you dont and just want some fun, have fun and dont get upset when the people who dedicate their characters to it kill you.

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And this is where it becomes unacceptable. We don't all have a toon we can dedicate to PvP. If you're telling me its that much of an advantage then the balance is off right from the start and that needs to be addressed.
But is a stalker's got 30% less HPs than a scrapper that's not particularly squishy. That's *maybe* twice through my attack chain @ 30th barring criticals, maybe twice and a bit, not sure.
But it boils down to this, it means that for my particular AT, assuming all the criteria can't be met for countering stalkers, two of them, if they time it right can bring me down before I can unsheath my sword, or, even fire off a heal.
No other AT in the game can match that

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beginners PvP 101

1)IR googles wont let you see a stalker with PvP build which means Hide+Stealth or the Hide+Stealth+Invis

2)Teaming is the key to effectively face stalkers.

3)Leadership power pool and the empathy set are the winners in PvP builds that will let you hunt effectively stalkers

4)Stay close to builds that pack interrupts to AS and make sure you cooperate

5)try and use the "Grasshoper" style when fighting . Its a mix of jumping around and activating powers while you in air. Is very confusing for the stalkers when you jump around and reduces the opportunity window to minimum

6)PBAoE spam might not always break hide but they give the miss sign signaling the stalker

7)Keep brawl in auto

8)Stalkers are easy targets once you get the hand of how to lure them and to trap them. trapping the stalkers is key to defeating them.

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And nobody thinks this is a bit of an over the top amount of preperation in order to take on ONE AT?

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Actually is one of the most useful advices you just need to learn when to use them.

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So, given you don't know where your enemy is, and don't know when he's going to strike, you haven't respecced for a PvP build and there's no one with the appropriate power sets in the zone, when IS the right time to use them?

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IR googles are useless againt stalkers!!! I have been AS with my fancy IR googles on :/

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I disagree. Using IR goggles I can *see* a stalker - knowing he's in the vicinity is frankly all I'm asking, because then I have an idea of when to down some inspirations. If I can't detect him then I've got problems, you can't keeps insps running all the time, so the "buy some inspirations" advice is pretty useless.

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Besides, the insps and IR goggles do work, and you can get them right now.

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I was in Siren's two hours before this post was sent. IR goggles WERE NOT available.

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An SR Scrapper doesn't have a chance against a Regen Scrapper with focused acc in the arena either.

Much like a defender doesn't stand a chance against a Stalker, the difference is a well prepared defender can protected himself from a Stalker. Hey, my level 24 Kin defender was hunting Stalkers in Bloody bay the other day and they couldn't do a thing about it.

You aren't well prepared so don't expect to win against those that are, or even stand a chance.

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Of course the SR scrapper has a chance, he has the chance to get away and there's the point. If you can't detect the stalker (and plaz no one suggest IR goggles, the villains are/were winning in Siren's so goggles were unavailable) then how do you know when to drops the inspirations? They don't run for very long and of course stalkers can take them as well - the difference being, they know when to take them as they're initiating the attack. A few damage insps for the less squishy targets, some lucks to offset the counterattack, a bf if there's someone with holds, whatever.
Don't stand still you say?
So if there's only stalker on then just move about randomly until you get bored and leave, coz you can't detect them, and whatever you do, don't stop to fight someone else, that's just ASKING to be blatted by a stalker.
Get on a team with the right skill set, assuming appropriate players are in the zone? Bit of a palavar for the sake of ONE AT is it not?

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Which AT other than stalkers can, if working in pairs bring down a member of another AT in under 3 seconds.

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Simple answer... good Scrappers.

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Simple and false. "Good" only goes as far as in-game physics allow. Name the scrapper attack that does more than half the stalkers hit points in damage at lvl30. Remember, you don't know when he's coming, you can't charge it up with half a dozen damage insps and you only get one hit.

Its nice to see you mostly agree with each other and that the consensus appears to be that it's a purity issue.
Not for the first time someones suggested that defending team will be hiding behind mobs. Personally I don't see how that would work, how it could possibly work. Are you imagining battle lines with the defenders on one side, attackers on the other and the former throwing mobs out to meet their unwelcome guests?
The though that I had was that any spawn would be as effective as any static defence in terms on firepower, but with the added versatility is that they'd try to follow the attacker if he left the room. Lets face it, no base is going to be perfectly defended, there's going to be weak links, there's going to areas that DON'T have choke point, vital components that DON'T have chain guns watching over them simply because the defenders can't afford to plave them.
You find yourself spawning in a room that's heavily defended with static defences then you run out and those expensive defences are left behind and you're temporarily safe to go looking for a weaker link.
If there's an NPC boss or LT of equal lvl then he'll follow you out and so you're not quite so safe anymore.
But this isn't about balance, it's never been about balance - the devs, if they so chose could make it work.
What it looks like to me is that certain individuals want to say, this is PvP over here and this is our patch, don't mess with it, and that's fine, I'm not going to slate that. It's your opinion and you're entitled to it, ultimately it comes down to a majority decision.
Ill leave you with a final though. Imagine the NPC was a hoverbot that did nothing but hover up and down a corridor, covering a far larger area than a static turret and attack the nearest invader that came into agro range, are you seriously telling me this would pollute the PvP enivornment?

I sympathise with stalkers, I really do, the players are doing exactly what the AT was designed to do, but when two of them working in together can bring down a scrapper before he even knows they're there, there's something wrong with the AT. I got brought down once, an SR scrapper I was on with got brought down several. There's no real drama and this is not a whinge and I do have a solution.
To see them I need IR goggles, to stop them getting away I need web grenades, but the villains are winning in Siren's Call and none of these items are available.
Now, I hate the nerfbat as much as the next guy and would suggest, rather than nerfing Stalkers, that the tools to compensate, not just stalkers, but everyont, be available to everyone, villains and heroes regardless of whose winning.
Before anyone accuses me of anything consider this; there are 4 melee ATs, tankers, brutes, scrappers and stalkers.
Which AT other than stalkers can, if working in pairs bring down a member of another AT in under 3 seconds. Hell, even 2 scrappers, arguably the big hitters in the melee stakes can't bring down a "squishy" stalker in under 10. A stalker can more than withstand 2 strikes of the scrappers biggest attack.
The bottom line is this; take two of ANY AT other than stalkers and set them against a scrapper and you get a good fight. The scrapper may lose, will probably lose, but at least will go down fighting. Put him up against 2 stalkers and he'll lose before he can lose off an attack/heal/whatever.
Now I imagine the situation must be worse if you've got a squishier AT and the question I have to ask is simply this; how is this fun?
If you cant see them until they launch their first attack, there's no one can that can confer a perception bonus and there's no IR goggles to be had then you're at their mercy.
So, to reiterate my suggestion, make the likes of IR goggles available all the time, rig them such that you can see them, but maybe can't target them and you can at least have a fighting chance of avoiding the dreaded AS.
I'd like to point out that the nerf to ensure that an AS doesn't kill in one shot will still mean that two stalkers are death on a stick to most ATs.
But perhaps I'm being unreasonable, perhaps what we need is a proper discussion about how to defeat them with the minimum possible team - I've seen plenty of discussions talking about someone with tactics, a controller to stop them getting away, tp foe to bring them back when they down a bf and big hitter to put them down as fast as possible, but I think we need a thread that explains how to defeat them, or at least, what stalkers fear.

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Not saying it wouldn't be far easier, I'm saying as it is now, you need to be creative!

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Ah, ok, but you still agree it's a bit of a palavar when there's no need for it to be.

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I did it the other day, because the Teleporter room was too small, build another teleporter room, moved the teleporters, deleted the first teleporter room and then placed the bigger room, dragged the teleporters back in place and was done...[ QUOTE ]


Thanks for confirming that that's possible. We've got 2 tpers and I'd like to get a third and a raid teleporter but not any time soon if it meant deleting the two current telepads.

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Planing your base before hand is a good idea BEFORE starting to place items...

Unfortunatly, you will be changing base layout MANY Times... and you will end up loosing crafted items in the process... but at least, sometimes, you can save salvage by doing that trick

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Bear in mind though the bases were new to most people and didn't come with much in the way of information and of course you're correct, base layout will change manytimes as people learn more about what they need their base to do.
Personally I think it's a dev oversight which will be patched before or around the release of I7.

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Ehm, and why can't you do that ? Just about thinking really... doesn't take much to:

1) Delete all rooms that does not have any crafted items in them
2) Create the new room (bigger?) that you are going to replace the other with.
3) Drag the item from one room to the other...

And if that can't be done, get Salvage collecting Getting salvage from 20+ members ISN'T that tough... and that is not counting all the opposite salvage they have left over that can be traded for your salvage kind...

A good idea, is to gather salvage on ONE person, even though all want to craft, I can see the point of this...

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Nice, except for one minor problem. People are reporting you can't drag crafted items from one room to another.

Of course what you're suggesting may be immensely complicated in the first place. IIRC you can't delete a room if it's the only connection to another room. Take my SGs base; the two rooms immediately off the portal room are the generator room and workshop - the rooms with crafted items are futher away.
Remember that game where you had a flat plate filled with tiles and there was one missing and you shuffled the tiles around to make a picture. That's kind of what you're talking about and do we really want that as a feature of base design?
Wouldn't it be FAR easier just to have the crafted items return to the inventory?

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Salvage is easy to get... My SG has bundles and don't know what the heck to do with it all...

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Still not good enough though is it? Especially as the base gets larger and you want to change the layout - you can't without deleting half the constructed items.

Consider the scene; Arnie has just utter the immortal words "Asta la vista, baby" and blow the T1000 to smithereens.
He watches with rising concern, or whatever the digital equivalent is as the shards of metal melt in the heat of the blast furnace and begin to reform.
"Bugger,' says Arnie, "I was sure he only had Moment of Glory."

Full rack of lvl45 enhancements; 3.8 million
New outfit; 542,000
Look on the AVs face when you get up immediately after faceplanting; Priceless

I Love Revive Not, you understand, that I use it much

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As Smooth said, the simplest thing to do is NOT get an IoP. It's the same case here as in the PvP zones, if you don't want to PvP then don't do it!

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Not QUITE the same though is it, as an IoP gives you a buff in the PvE zones. Might be a minimal buff, but a buff nonetheless - these things are important to some people.
Would be different if the buff only worked in PvP zones.

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I think dumping Resiliance would have been more in concept, but 'in concept' isn't in the Cryptic dictionary... just look at MoG.

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So true, so true *shakes head sadly*

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Bugger, so I really need to pull half the slots out of each of those?

Respec it is then.

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Well, not necessarily, not with reconstruction anyway. 3 fast recharge and 3 heals will always prove useful.

Sorry, I've never seen (at least knowingly) a hurrican in action. What does it do? Is it a knockback thing or something else. I think someone said "pushback" to me.

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bases layouts are plain and simple now, 1 storage, no doorways... no nothing!

They really need to do something about the bases :P

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I couldn't agree more. I can't help thinking the base component of the game got shipped whilst it was only half done.
We NEED a communal salvage storage facility, and a communal enhancement storage bin would be handy as well.

For the smaller, non PvP SGs the bases should offer some other advantage. Yes, the home hospital and tpers are nice, but for the HUGE effort that's involved they seem like a fairly feeble reward.

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I do think that you aren't as good at PvP as you think you are if you cant beat a lone Stalker. I can beat regens, it takes some time, but i can kill them. They have also killed me on a good few occasions. If i may ask, what is your primary?

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Don't get me wrong, I'm very bad at PvP. Especially in Siren's thanks to my last sloppy respec @ 37. Consequently I've have powers missing that I really miss - most notably SJ and I couldn't even begin to imagine the state of my slots.
The issue at hand isn't my ability at PvP, not even the fight with the stalker, which ultimately could have been very different had I known a bit more.
The issue here is that given as I gratefully note you agreed with that there are builds that can't defeat other builds and in such a circumstance surely the decent thing to do would be to back off once this has been realised.
Just to make sure everyone reading this is clear - I'm not suggesting that me versus the stalker was an example of this - that was more to do with my inexperience of that AT. I'll get you next time!!! *shakes fist*
Incidentally my primary is the katana.

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CoV vs CoH, just as PvP

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Very cool. Would have been disappointed if heroes started raiding each other's bases.

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I am on a one on one basis still. There is no AT that is unbeatable by any other AT.Everyone got weaknesses

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Before I tell you you're wrong, again. Lets be very clear. Your claim is that any specific build can beat any other specific build?
Obviously you've reached this conclusion through rigorous testing of every possible build combination... or possibly just guessing?

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Not saying that this applies to any posters here, but what bewilders me are those people that get found in the middle of a PVP zone & then start throwing the "PVE" rattle out of the pram when they get attacked. When people in a PVP zone get attacked & start shouting "LOSER", "MORON", or "GO PLAY HALO" over broadcast they need to take a second to reflect on just how completely dumb they are coming across.
Put it this way, should I be getting my petition pad out in the Hollows & starting chalking up everyone doing Frosty for the nth time ?

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No, coz Frosty doesn't care - he's a good sport that way.
But if I'm off to a PvE mission in Warburg, aside from it usually being devoid of another living soul, getting away from an opponent to the mission hardly seems like a drama. I ALWAYS carry at least 3bfs if going into a PvP zone, so even if a controller has a pop at me, I drop a bf and contine on my merry way. Once I'm at the mission I'm out of harms way (from other players that is).

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and thats why i say noone is unbeatable. Rock,scissors works very nicely. Just because one set cant beat another it doesnt mean its unbeatable.Everyone got weaknesses

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A slight tune change? Remember we were talking about 1 on 1 when you claimed no one was unbeatable.

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When i first entered Sirens i was getting flattened because of two things. 1. I was low level and next to no SO's 2. The sheer overwhelming number of heros against the villains.
I didnt leave the zone to never come back again, i started asking questions and talking to people who knew more about PvP as i didnt really know much as i hadn't used the arena much because i simply didnt like it.
Now however i am level 26 but thanks to PvP am fully slotted with SO's and the amount of villains entering Sirens is increasing dramatically.
I might also point out that playing my stalker there i often find myself against 3 or 4 heroes. I don't complain that they are too many, i try and pick them off one by one. A lot of the time i end up dead

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That's you and I salute that attitude. I had a great time in Siren's when I teamed with a couple of heroes against *I think* an equal amount of villains. Great fights, the MM was especially infuriating (in a good way) in that I could see his pets, but he remained hidden - as any good MM should in my opinion. Unfortunately I had to leave before I really wanted to. But was having a whale of a time and that's what PvP should be imho.
I think I'm really driving at the 1 on 1. Regardless what TG says there are builds that other builds simply can't beat
other ones and if you're repeatedly hammering someone there comes a point where it's tantamount to bullying.
Put it another way. I am a very good pool player, when I'm on my game I'd go as far as to say exceptional. I've not met many people who can beat my best game, and I've played a lot of people.
Now, when I'm playing someone who's obviously not as good, do I go in giving it my all, put as much effort as I can into beating them?
No. I relax a bit and take on ridiculously hard shots (crowd pleasers if they come off), make sure I don't leave them snookered. I give them a game. I consider their viewpoint. No one wants to be seven balled so I make a point of not doing it. They have more fun and I get to play some outlandish shots - which against a better player I can't as I have to be more conservative.
So my question to the PvPers who thing hammering someone time and time again is ok is; why don't you do this, why do you feel it necessary to put everything you've got into beating someone time and time again?