Ice_Ember

no need for challenge and provoke.

Stone is a great secondary for aggro management. (control)

Fire is a great secondary for aggro management. (damage)

Each set has benefits and drawbacks. Depends on what concept and set you are interested in. Also, decide if and what IO bonuses you want to go for.

I am really happy with shield defense atm. It is not as uber as my stone/fire for all situations, but it is really cool. (I have not even messed with the 50 Shield/fire yet. I am jsut going by my shield/ice. Ice is still week damage, but Shield makes up for it.)

Wp/stone or Wp/fire is how i would go if you want wp as the primary.

The extra regen from Health is too good to pass up though.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
a...scorch is crazy minor damage..get rid of it.

b..f.e. and b.u. are underslotted..fire is the highest damage output. these two together are crazy. make it happen

c...your slotting is all over the place.i cant tell what you were going for..

d..stamina ...3 slot it.

e..dump rise of the phoenix..aint nothing but eye candy.

f..super jump 3 slotted?..waste of 2 slots.


g..combat jump is WAY over slotted.

h...demons are fire based..your a "fire" tank....stop doing demons and do freakshow. they herd better,faster and rez for more spawns.

i...drop acro and get i.o kb protection.

j...pick up tough and weave

k...go hunt kill freaks


now about the farming and end recov..there are sooooo many recovery bonus's in i.o sets..if you plan on farming go with a set plan for your tank

i went with recov and recharge along with some acc.

almost everything has recov bonus's so look around..they will cost and if you get purples youll be all kinds of set.i did so well on mine that i was able to drop conserve power...then later on..i also dropped consume ..havent run outta end yet.



[/ QUOTE ]

Lets ignore the post bbq flaming. I really do see this as great advice (for a farm build, esp solo, I'd drop weave).

so fitness, fighting, travel power ... add in hasten. Everything tastes better with hasten, esp on a farm build.

You have your 4 power pools. Coldmed is right about freaks.
demons are good for magical salvage, which isnt as rare as it used to be (tech has some expensive rares to match too). That being equal, go freaks. more influence, same drop rate.

farm builds should be about recover/endurance and recharge.
add in tough, with healing flames, you will be fine.

While coldmeds build is unrealistic for the OP, his advice isnt.

listen to uncle/auntie gashes (thanks to science pack for tran-gendering my heroes :P)

ROTP? only helps if your dead. you shouldnt die (take tough, and watch the magic esp with healing flames).

2-3 slotting a travel power? on a farm build? I have/do if I'm going for defense bonuses (love the zephrs).

as for a), i'm sure he means dump the slots elsewhere, not the power (though that would be impressive if you can)

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT.

Sound advice with goals to work towards. I wont slot purples because of expense, but I dont hate on those who can. That is retarded and selfish.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dunno Bill, lately a lot of the things that no one thought would come to the game are either here or on the way.

Flashbacks, side switching, body changing and power customization are a few that jump right out at me. Personally, I hope total respecs never see the light of day. But these guys have surprised me latley.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bill's copy pasta pretty much covers the reasons not to allow this functionality. As far as I am concerned, we'll never allow this...but, of course, I've been wrong before.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would love to make my fire/ice tank an ice/fire... I would even start back out from level one and re-earn the experience needed to earn level 50 again.

I met him in a swamp down in dagoba
Where it bubbles all the time like a giant carbonated soda
S o d a, soda

I saw the little runt sitting there on a log
I asked him his name and in a raspy voice he said yoda
Y o d a, yoda
Yo-yo-yo-yo yoda

Well, Ive been around, but I aint never seen
A guy who looks like a muppet, but hes wrinkled and green
Oh, my yoda
Yo-yo-yo-yo yoda

Well, Im not dumb, but I cant understand
How he can lift me in the air just by raising his hand
Oh, my yoda
Yo-yo-yo-yo yoda yo-yo-yo-yo yoda

Well, I left home just a week before
And Ive never ever been a jedi before
But obi wan, he set me straight, of course
He said, go to yoda and hell show you the force

Well Im not the kind that would argue with ben
So it looks like Im gonna start all over again
With my yoda
Yo-yo-yo-yo yoda yo-yo-yo-yo yoda

Yoda
Yo-yo-yo-yo yoda yo-yo-yo-yo yoda

So I used the force
I picked up a box
I lifted some rocks
While I stood on my head
Well, I wont forget what yoda said

He said, luke, stay away from the darker side
And if you start to go astray, let the force be your guide
Oh, my yoda
Yo-yo-yo-yo yoda

I know darth vaders really got you annoyed
But remember, if you kill him, then youll be unemployed
Oh, my yoda
Yo-yo-yo-yo yoda

Well, I heard my friends really got in a mess
So Im gonna have to leave yoda, I guess
But I know that Ill be coming back some day
Ill be playing this part till Im old and gray

The long-term contract that I had to sign
Says Ill be making these movies till the end of time
With my yoda
Yo-yo-yo-yo yoda yo-yo-yo-yo yoda

Yoda yo-yo-yo-yo yoda yo-yo-yo-yo yoda
Yoda yo-yo-yo-yo yoda yo-yo-yo-yo yoda

Yoda yo-yo-yo-yo yoda yo-yo-yo-yo yoda
Yoda yo-yo-yo-yo yoda yo-yo-yo-yo yoda

Yoda yo-yo-yo-yo yoda yo-yo-yo-yo yoda
Yoda yo-yo-yo-yo yoda yo-yo-yo-yo yoda

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[BMT of Champion]BlackAmaranth: Ready!
[BMT of Champion]BlackAmaranth: mt
[BMT of Champion]BlackAmaranth: pulling
[BMT of Champion]Dark Friar: Should you be doing that publically, BA? o_o
[BMT of Champion]Dread Shinobi: of course
[BMT of Champion]BlackAmaranth: Giggity Giggity!
[BMT of Champion]Dark Friar: Hop Diggity!
[BMT of Champion]Dalante: should you be watching?
[BMT of Champion]May Flowers: lol
[BMT of Champion]Dark Friar: Absolutely!
[BMT of Champion]BlackAmaranth: Oh crap.... this is BMT, that's going to make it to the forums isn't it.
[BMT of Champion]Dalante: each thier own
[BMT of Champion]Dark Friar: It wasn't... till now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Had to.

[/ QUOTE ]
No.... You Really didn't.
*sigh*
Proof of my reputation as a moron continues.


[/ QUOTE ]


This might help....

/bind shift+x beginchat /send "BMT of Champion"

I always need a good chuckle when I get home from work. Thanks for providing it this morning.

I am looking forward to seeing it, if for no other reason than the fox. (PK will be with me so I cant say anything then)

[ QUOTE ]
Ok I am trying this tonight, I have one free respec left that I want to use up before i15 goes live. If it doesn’t work out I can always use the i15 one in a week or so.

[/ QUOTE ]


Try it on the Test server... then you can try again and again.

at least it is not the walking poo man any more....

This is a build I am going to spec into. The changes to IO's and defense is why I have chosen the slotting. I think it will do well, but I ahve not tried it out yet.

If nothing else, it will give ideas to how you want to build your tank.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Level 50 Mutation Tanker
Primary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Secondary Power Set: Ice Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blazing Aura -- Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(21), C'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx(21), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23)
Level 1: Frozen Fists -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), KntkC'bat-Knock%(15), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(45)
Level 2: Healing Flames -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(3), Numna-Heal/Rchg(3), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(17), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(19), Mrcl-EndRdx/Rchg(19)
Level 4: Frost -- Zinger-Acc/Rchg(A), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(5), Mocking-Rchg(5), HO:Centri(11), HO:Centri(11), HO:Centri(17)
Level 6: Fire Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(7), RctvArm-ResDam(7), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(9), S'fstPrt-ResKB(45), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(50)
Level 8: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(45)
Level 10: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 12: Plasma Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(13), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(13), RctvArm-ResDam(15)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Zephyr-ResKB(A)
Level 16: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(34), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(34), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(37), Mrcl-Heal(40), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 18: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(42), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(42)
Level 22: Ice Patch -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 24: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(25), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(25), RctvArm-ResDam(34)
Level 26: Weave -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Def(27), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(27), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 28: Freezing Touch -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(29), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), KntkC'bat-Knock%(31), P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg(31), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/Rchg(33)
Level 30: Burn -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(31), Oblit-%Dam(46), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(48), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 32: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(46), Rec'dRet-Pcptn(46)
Level 35: Greater Ice Sword -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(36), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), KntkC'bat-Knock%(36), P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg(37), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/Rchg(37)
Level 38: Frozen Aura -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(39), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Oblit-%Dam(40)
Level 41: Fiery Embrace -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 44: Taunt -- Zinger-Dam%(A)
Level 47: Focused Accuracy -- Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit(50)
Level 49: Temperature Protection -- S'fstPrt-ResKB(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(43), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), KntkC'bat-Knock%(43)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]<ul type="square">[*]6% DamageBuff(Smashing)[*]6% DamageBuff(Lethal)[*]6% DamageBuff(Fire)[*]6% DamageBuff(Cold)[*]6% DamageBuff(Energy)[*]6% DamageBuff(Negative)[*]6% DamageBuff(Toxic)[*]6% DamageBuff(Psionic)[*]29.3% Defense(Smashing)[*]29.3% Defense(Lethal)[*]3% Defense(Fire)[*]3% Defense(Cold)[*]6.75% Defense(Energy)[*]6.75% Defense(Negative)[*]3% Defense(Psionic)[*]21.8% Defense(Melee)[*]4.88% Defense(Ranged)[*]3% Defense(AoE)[*]1.8% Max End[*]10% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*]18% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*]5% FlySpeed[*]288.1 HP (15.4%) HitPoints[*]5% JumpHeight[*]5% JumpSpeed[*]Knockback (Mag -12)[*]Knockup (Mag -12)[*]MezResist(Immobilize) 14.3%[*]MezResist(Stun) 4.4%[*]20% Perception[*]8.5% (0.14 End/sec) Recovery[*]60% (4.69 HP/sec) Regeneration[*]3.13% Resistance(Negative)[*]5% RunSpeed[/list]


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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is more to tanking than just stone armor you know


[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't that the truth.

[/ QUOTE ]

fire armor FTW!!!

[ QUOTE ]
My suggestion is to try it out for yourself and see if you like it. Don't take anybody's word for it but your own.

[/ QUOTE ] \

Ice melee jsut has really bad single target damage. Horribly bad in fact. Frozen Aura and Frost optimally slotted really helps AoE wise, but you will take a while to defeat a boss solo.

My mind/kin, which had all debt badges before level 50, makes up for one being a bit behind.

Ohh, a shiny!!!

As a Pingu... we know awakens well. And we know the fast routes from all the hospitals.

When the playing toon gets to 49 I will have to figure out which exploration badge to level to 50 on. I am thinking Undefeated in Atlas. Or, the badge inside City Hall (I dont think I have it yet.)

I have a level 45 which has never logged in... I love the level pact system. When the second half reaches 50, then I will log it in. I want to try to do a video of a toon going instantly to 50 on log in. I have never done a video in the game and I dont think a screen shot will do it justice. I also want to see if it gets the benefit of all of the inspirations at once too... Hellions need to be very afraid...

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I've ever said anything is "hard" to do or even intentionally implied it.

[/ QUOTE ]

*cough*powercustomization*cough*

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never said it was "hard" to do. It said it would be massively time-consuming.

Not even remotely the same thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Out of curiosity. What is something you would deem hard to do?

[/ QUOTE ]

Trying to make a majority of you guys happy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think majority of us are happy. Otherwise we would not play the game. Unfortunately most people only post negatives and rarely post positives.

I slot 2 acc/rech from taunt, one recharge from a taunt set, and 3 dam/rang HO's. It works well.

sweet

I have an IO'd spines/vuln that is now a beast. before IO's I almost deleted it because of how much I dislike vuln for scrappers.

I have a fire/wp and a fire/shields and both are great. The fire/shield does much more carnage faster but is not as survivable until IO's.

For big orange numbers and and cant be killed shy of a huge alpha... BS/regen. It is IO'd out and really is awesome. I dont recall the last time I used instant healing... it doesnt need it often at all.

Post deleted by Moderator 08

This is my stab at it without reading the rest of the thread.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Level 50 Mutation Tanker
Primary Power Set: Dark Armor
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Arctic Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Dark Embrace -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(3), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(3), RctvArm-ResDam(5), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(43)
Level 1: Jab -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Murky Cloud -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(5), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(7), RctvArm-ResDam(7)
Level 4: Haymaker -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(17), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(19), P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg(19)
Level 6: Obsidian Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(9), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9), RctvArm-ResDam(11)
Level 8: Dark Regeneration -- Theft-+End%(A), Theft-Heal/Rchg(11), Theft-Acc/Heal(13), Theft-Acc/EndRdx/Heal(13), Theft-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(15)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A)
Level 12: Cloak of Darkness -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Run+(15), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(21), GftotA-Def(21)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 16: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 18: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(36), Mrcl-Heal(37), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(37), H'zdH-Heal(39), H'zdH-Heal/EndRdx(39)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(36), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(36), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(37), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(39)
Level 22: Knockout Blow -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(23), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(23), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg(25), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/Rchg(27)
Level 24: Death Shroud -- Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Erad-Dmg(27), C'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(29), C'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx(29), EndRdx-I(34)
Level 26: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Rage -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(34), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(34), Rec'dRet-Pcptn(45)
Level 30: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(31), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31), RctvArm-ResDam(31)
Level 32: Weave -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(33), GftotA-Def(33), GftotA-Run+(33)
Level 35: Oppressive Gloom -- Stpfy-Acc/Rchg(A), Stpfy-Acc/EndRdx(45)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(40), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(40), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Oblit-%Dam(42)
Level 41: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(42), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(43), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(43)
Level 44: Chilblain -- Enf'dOp-EndRdx/Immob(A), Enf'dOp-Immob/Rng(45), Enf'dOp-Acc/EndRdx(46), Enf'dOp-Acc/Rchg(46), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob/Rchg(46), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob(48)
Level 47: Ice Blast -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(48), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50), Dev'n-Hold%(50), Dev'n-Dmg/Rchg(50)
Level 49: Soul Transfer -- Dmg-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]<ul type="square">[*]11.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)[*]11.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)[*]11.5% DamageBuff(Fire)[*]11.5% DamageBuff(Cold)[*]11.5% DamageBuff(Energy)[*]11.5% DamageBuff(Negative)[*]11.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)[*]11.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)[*]25.8% Defense(Smashing)[*]25.8% Defense(Lethal)[*]3% Defense(Fire)[*]3% Defense(Cold)[*]8% Defense(Energy)[*]8% Defense(Negative)[*]3% Defense(Psionic)[*]19.6% Defense(Melee)[*]5.5% Defense(Ranged)[*]3% Defense(AoE)[*]9% Max End[*]8.75% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*]3% Enhancement(Immobilize)[*]9% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*]5% Enhancement(Heal)[*]5% FlySpeed[*]133.5 HP (7.13%) HitPoints[*]5% JumpHeight[*]5% JumpSpeed[*]MezResist(Held) 2.75%[*]MezResist(Immobilize) 9.9%[*]MezResist(Stun) 2.2%[*]20% Perception[*]16% (0.27 End/sec) Recovery[*]42% (3.29 HP/sec) Regeneration[*]5% Resistance(Fire)[*]1.88% Resistance(Negative)[*]20% RunSpeed[/list]


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Here are issues I think exist with Stone:

Out of granite, the set performs at best at the same level as the baseline Fiery Armor build (no pools) only trading the Fire superiority for Psi superiority, Psi being less common type than Fire.

To do this, Stone requires 7 powers, 8 if you want the taunt aura. Each power uses a minimum of 3 slots, Earth Embrace uses 6. Thats 7 powers+24 slots.

Fiery Aura uses 4 powers to do so, and 3 slots them all for exception of Healing Flames, that it six slots. This is, mind you, if he wants to cover cold to it's max, if he neglects cold he uses 3 powers. I also can have the taunt aura.

So fire armor gets, tops, 4 powers and 15 slots to do the same mitigation as stone out of granite, plus it gets all those cool tools like endurance drain, Fiery Embrace, bonus damage aura and Burn.... OK ignore burn.

The point? Stone out of granite performance is sub par at best without any single bonuses and requires insane amount of effort to build without any true rewards. On the other hand, it suffers additional penalties that prevent it from running hover or combat jump for additional defense, plus a horrendous mobility penalty that includes the forced de-toggling of status protection to actually do any non-tp movement.

And then Granite.... Granite who's people complaints are not it's penalties but on the other hand how easy it is to get over most if not all the penalties without having to sacrifice survivability.

Whoever says that set has no issues in face of people noting them is the child trying to talk to adults, either that or he just has vested interests and is afraid of stone being reviewed as it would, as a minimum, mean measures set so that Granite's penalties can't be worked around.

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The problem that I see with this argument isn't so much that the armor doesn't have issues. I think there are a few. I would like to see some of the penalties outside of granite reduced, specifically the run speed in rooted reduced at least by half. And despite the fact that you reduce me down to a child talking to an adult (and you wondered why people take offense at your suggestions....) I actually don't have that much of a problem with SOME of Granite's penalties being insurmountable...note that I say some.

Here's the issue. WP tankers can get pretty close to Stone survivability with NONE of the issues of a stoner. Invulns can too, even outside of their t9's, especially when it comes to smashing/lethal damage, with again, none of the penalties. With IO's. SO if these armors can get pretty close to a Granite tanker's survivability while having none of the issues a Granite tanker has (specifically mobility/recharge issues, the cosmetic ones are really neither here nor there) then the reverse should be at least a little bit true. A granite tanker shoudl be able to build to surmount some percentage of their issues.

In addition, the level of commitment to IO's that a granite tanker has to go to is somewhat....understated on these boards. It's not a trivial amount. I'm not saying it shouldn't be balanced, but I am saying that not every stoner goes around with 65%+ recharge 30%+ runspeed and 70%+ damage (and I'm pretty sure that last part's impossible). It's especially non-trivial to build from at least 1 - 49. At 50 you really have nothing better to do, but you're still spending 200 million + to get a build on the level of "eliminates all penalties".

Then there's the "A kin eliminates the penalties of a granite tanker". Boo freaking hoo. An FF defender/controller eliminates almost all survivability problems on a FA tanker. Does that mean that FA tankers are the tankers with the least problems and the most viability? Ha! People tend to forget about things when making that argument.

I'm willing to have it be "a little bit harder" in granite to surmount the issues, but I think anyone who argues that they should be completely insurmountable in the face of how awesome granite is is an child talking to an adult.

Yes, I have a vested interest in the status quo. I've put almost 2 years and probably over a billion influence into my stoner now with all the build changes and all the SO's and IO's and respecs and what not. But you have a vested interest in changing it because you don't enjoy the set. Because powers 1 - 8 aren't what you like to see in a set. I frankly reject that mode of thinking. The set is fairly balanced. It's just you don't particularly like the way it's balanced.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm so full of it and so blinded by the fact that I really do enjoy my character (even outside of granite) that I'm an idiot and an immature gamer.

Also, for the record, I'm not completely against granite's numbers being taken down somewhat. I wouldn't mind if it were something like 17% Def/40% resistance, as long as you lowered the penalties assocated with rooted and raised some of the other powers to make them more viable outside of granite. But the numbers on that would be very carefully tweaked.

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Normally I agree with most of what Starsman has to say because he does his research and formulas etc. I have to disagree with him on this now.

The comparison to fire armor and stone armor pre-granite is not valid. My stone armor without granite was more survivable than my fire armor tank. add tough and weave to both and the stone pulls easily further ahead. Stone does have to take more powers... but it is better.

I recall Castle saying he thought stone armor was balanced, I dont recall when...

The argument of stone armor not being balanced because of IO's is a week argument at best. If I lower the recharge by dropping 3 crushing impact sets from my stone tank and adding 3 sets of kinetic combat I can have 46% defense to S/L with rock armor and weave and not have to worry about the recharge penalty of granite.

I added 3 sets of kinetic combat to my invuln scrapper (and I have 4 sets of reactive armor and a couple of other small S/L bonuses) and I can get 40-46% S/L on it. (My spines/vuln completely out performs my fire/ice tank in survivability now)

Does this mean I think invuln scrapper is fine? No, without IO's I had to stop playing it because it felt like a blaster with mez protection.

IO's make my stone/fire run faster, decrease the -rech penalty, and make it where I dont have to have a pocket kin. And after I get the three spare sets of kinetic combat it will be even better. I am not in granite unless in large teams or versus AV's.

IO's also make my spines/vuln a beast. I want to play it in a large team and TF but have not had the time lately. I herd up to the aggro cap on +3's without an issue. When I get the chance I will do the scrapper challenge again and see how well it does.

IO's have helped my fire/ice... but it still needs support if it is the only tank on a large team on a hard difficulty. IO's have greatly improved my stone/fire. IO's have also made my ice/stone into an awesome tank. It was really really good before IO's were introduced. Heck... it was really good even before the defense fix

Adding tough/weave to a stone armor tank minimizes the reliance on granite. I add tough/weave to each of my tanks to help with mitigation.

And for the record... I do not have teleport on my stone/fire either. I went for the non-traditional build. Air Sup and fly... it works for me.

I do wish the graphics for granite could be modified... but I wish that fore fire, ice, and dark as well....

In short, I think stone armor is fairly balanced as is. I wish my fire/ice tank could be three-fourths as good in stead of half as good. My ice/stone is friggin awesome. I am still holding judgement on my shield/fire tank. My shield/fire scrapper is great so the tank should be as well...

I use 3 cytos and two rect. reticles. But I also have 3 sets of kinetic combat and 4 sets of reactive armor. With nothing in range of invincibility I have 29% S/L defense. That alone has made my vuln scrapper playable again. With a herd I get in the lower to mid 40 percent range.

Ice patch only affects 5 at a time and higher level mobs can run off the patch.

Burn also only affects 5 at a time and causes a fear (run away) affect.

Any tank with fire melee is better offensively than a fire/ice tank, even with the new improved Frozen Aura.

fire/fire is good for solo or small teams. (my fire/ice is for small teams, I use my stone/fire or ice/stone for large teams)