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Quote:Well, I'd have to say you are probably in the minority then. Most people become attached to one character or a small subset of their characters, and want to continue playing and improving that character. Leveling a character to 50, then scrapping and starting a new toon is not what I want out of a game.The lack of an endgame is one of the things that really sold me on CoH and if the post-shard incarnate system had been in place when I started I wouldn't have been nearly as enthusiastic about the game. Leave the endless endgame treadmill to WoW.
I know that argument has been used before - "the game is about the journey". Unfortunately, the journey gets old when you have to play the same content repeatedly. They needed to focus on new content and endgame. Instead they focused on new systems. -
Quote:There is nothing that would have ever outsold WoW. They automatically had a huge fanbase from the existing single player Warcraft series.That it would have been a very competitive/outsold WoW?
Just curious what you all think. Personally, I would rather have people blatantly copy this game than WoW (Not like champions or DC, like, Carbon clone with different names and such.)
However, I think CoH could have been much bigger, with a proper advertising budget and regular box releases.
I also think the lack of a level 50 "endgame" caused many people to leave, and the introduction of incarnate content came way too late to save the game. If we had the incarnate system introduced back in issue 6, I think the game would be in much better shape and not cancelled. -
Quote:Nope, basing it on my experience with EQ1, DAOC, GW, GW2, and WoW.
If you're basing this strictly on experience with WoW, maybe WoW is the problem! Other games might just do it better.
I just feel that a tank should be more survivable and have more tools available to gain and hold aggro than are available in those games. IMO, CoH got it just right.
In EQ1, you could very easily lose aggro to a healer who "healed too much", which is pretty ridiculous.
In DAOC, aggro could be held and maintained only on a single mob by a melee toon. Teams resorted to using single target pulling and having a designated "stunner" to take care of any adds.
This was later followed by PBAE teams, where a melee toon was fairly useless except as the puller.
In GW, all that was needed was for your aggro radius to intersect that of the mob's. I've yet to figure out what GW2's model is, appears to be fairly random.
I agree, some may feel that it's "too easy" in CoH, and they are entitled to that opinion. I just disagree with it. -
Thanks! That would be great to get the entire series posted here, seems to be some missing from their website.
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I've seen the press releases for new games such as GW2 and how "revolutionary" they are to the MMORPG realm, and my response is "oh really"?
GW2 adds little hearts to maps and you have to perform tasks that have been around for years to complete, and supposedly that's revolutionary.
They draw circles on a map and spawn zergs, call it an event, and thats revolutionary... They eliminate healers, give each class a weak heal, and call that revolutionary. The appearance of each toon is still specific to the equipment you pick up. Yes, you can transfer stats to something you like, but hardly revolutionary.
Let me point out some things in this game:
1. CHARACTER CUSTOMIZATION - you can literally create anything. YOU ARE WHAT YOU CREATE. Not what you pick up and wear. No other game even attempts to do this. Equipment is king. (with CO as the exception)
2. POWER SYNCHRONIZATION - in every other game, you can do what you can do. Nothing else anyone does has that much of an impact on your performance. The way powers in this game mix and match is something to behold. A /kin troller can make a good meleer truely awesome. A buffer/debuffer can make a good blaster literally melt through enemies. I have always loved PUGs in this game, because every group is different depending on the mix of powersets. It feels like a completely different game - every time. I can participate in a 1000 PUGs in WoW, it's always the same, except for perhaps the competency and equipment of the players.
Tank/DPS/Healer/Whatever. The experience never differs.
3. PLAYER CREATED CONTENT - now this is something truely revolutionary. Love it or hate it, you wont see this in the vast majority of MMORPGs. Yes, the design could have been much better, but you have to admit some of the stories you can find are far and away better than most of the Dev content.
4. BASE EDITOR - yes, its hard to use. But look on the base forums, it's amazing what people have come up with. DAOC had very limited player housing where you could pick decorations. GW allowed you to select a guild base, but no customization.
5. TRUE TANKING - I've tried to tank on games such as WoW, after tanking in CoH. My reaction is always - you've got to be kidding me.
In CoH, you are a brick wall, and you can keep a substantial portion of the baddies on you alone, just by doing what comes naturally. In WoW, and most other games, you're nothing but a bag of hitpoints that the healer has to keep filled. Keeping a substantial number of the baddies on you is difficult.
6. BADGES - yes, every game has them now. But CoH invented the concept ... which WoW later stole. Now that was revolutionary.
7. SIDEKICKING - havent seen this anywhere else. GW2 has auto-exemplering at a zone level, but it's just an inferior implementation IMO. Try joining a team 30 levels above you in any other game, you will die in 1 second.
8. POWERSET/ARCHTYPE PROLIFERATION - nothing else comes close to the number of powerset combinations in this game. Foe each class, GW2 expects you to pick from 2 weapons and swap between them, giving you a grand total of 8 attacks. Less is better in their minds, I guess.
In Wow, you can pick from one of three skill trees for each class, again not much of a choice.
9. TRAVEL POWERS - this is both a blessing and a curse. It destroys any chance of having true "exploration" in this game. However, it is a joy to be able to have the ability to fly, by myself, without having to use some giant bird or other contraption.
10. INSPIRATIONS - yes, we take them for granted. But have you seen anything like them anywhere else?
You get "potions" in other games, but do they drop that frequently and have as much of an impact?
11. EIGHT PLAYER TEAMS - the rule of thumb in other games is - 5 players.
Not sure why they do this, but it really cuts down on the flexibility of group composition.
12. TEAMING - this game encourages teaming. From the power synchronization mentioned above, to side kicking, to the fact
that you can just level faster by teaming ... nothing else comes close. You can form a PUG in just a few minutes, whereas forming a team in other games can be such a major time-consuming hassle.
It's a shame the game is being sunseted. And it's more of a shame that the industry hasnt taken a harder look at some of the features in this game, and tried to emulate more of them. This is an 8 year old game, and IMO far more revolutionary and unique in design than anything coming out now. -
Quote:Yep, thats it. Thank you.That sounds like the strips in PvP by Scott Kurtz.
http://pvponline.com/comic/2004/06/01/tue-jun-01
Be Well!
Fireheart -
Very early on, there was a series of comedic comic strips about life in CoH.
Examples:
1. A group of heroes waits impatiently while their teammate uses hover to reach the rooftip.
2. The heroes rescue a damsel in distress on a roof, she then leaps to the street below unharmed. One exclaims, "Um, why do they need us exactly?"
3. There used to be a bug where civilians walked into a sewer entrance and got into a backflip loop. A hero joins in the fun.
4. A hero grins when his rescuee exclaims "How can I EVER repay you?"
Would be nice to locate and preserve those. Are they still available anywhere? -
I've wondered if someone created a hero name in the game and sometime later one of the major comic book publishers took that name - who would win? Fairly certain NCSoft doesn't copyright any of our names .... so whoever copyrights/trademarks first would have the right to order cease and desist to the other party?
I've also wondered, especially with the upcoming Marvel MMO, if there might have been some kind of backroom deal for NCSoft to sunset CoH early, to eliminate the possibility of such conflicts and/or competition. Wouldnt even put it past the CO folks to try it. -
Malta - primarily because of the sappers.
CoT - a nightmare in the lower levels due to the accuracy debuffs.
Carnies - hated the bosses with their invulnerable mode and ability to cast spells even while held.
Arachnos - perma blindness. You had to carry a load of yellows or you were just out of luck.
Redcaps - seemed their attacks had 100% accuracy and totally blew through your resists. -
Quote:I wouldn't bother purchasing it, it's not that great a game. Wish I hadn't pre-ordered.BTW I am rethinking my purchase of GW2 if a game as great as this gets canned without a sequel I cannot support logging in to GW2 I will be to crushed to even look at NCSOFT logo without some sort of fluid release. Dire Rage, Sub, Nurse, Sally, B.A. Barracus, Cool Pimp Silklash Kraken/Superior Bling will never forget you guys. 1UP
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Personally, I think the double XP should start now and go on until the end.
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Since the game is being sunseted soon, I'm wondering if a red-name could answer some questions about what would have come in future releases.
1. What was intended for the next and subsequent incarnate powers. I'm assuming it hadnt been planned out all the way to Omega, but I'm guessing at least the next 2 were in the planning stages.
2. What is the "coming storm"? I'm guessing some kind of alliance between Hami 1, Hami 2, Rularuu, and perhaps Nemesis... any kind of outline on what the story would have been?
3. There's always some kind of resurrection storyline in comics. Was there any intent to return Statesman back from the dead?
4. Any details on future incarnate trials?
5. Were we finally going to get the moonbase zone? Underwater zones?
6. Future powersets in the planning and/or implementation stages?
7. Any plans to enhance mission architect or the base editor?
8. Was a COH2 being planned? -
Quote:How is this the craziest thing in the world? The point is that both games are a royal pain in the *** to play. And yes, I played EQ1 for 9 months, enough time for me to decide to get out. DAOC was a refreshing change of pace for about 2 years afterwords.
That is literally the craziest thing I've ever read. Like, I can't get my mind around it. Did you ever PLAY old school EQ??? GW2 is light-years away from that - some swarming undead don't even scratch the surface of it!!
Quote:Because there's no need to group out in the world. And as has been pointed out in lots of threads, most recently and eloquently by Arcanaville, most people DON'T WANT to group up with strangers. They want to play the game at their own pace, or with their own friends. -
I've played a human ranger to level 80... while it's a beautiful game, I just dont see me playing it long term.
One of the principal things that a game designer has to get right is balancing the challenge level for players. Also, one thing that CoH got right that GW2 doesn't - you need to feel that your character is becoming more powerful vs same level mobs as you gain in level.
GW2 does the opposite. I was having difficulty in the level 75-80 zone, & the level 80 zone is well beyond my ability as a player. I found myself getting my teeth kicked in, repeatedly, just venturing a short distance from the "safe area". While some may relish this level of difficulty, I don't. These designers appear to have the "old school" everquest mentality.
Again, another thing that CoH got right - you can set the level of difficulty on your missions.
I'm also finding the game to be anti-social. No one calling for groups to be formed, and my zone broadcasts for forming groups have been met with silence.
Crying shame, too. The graphics are very nice, although nowhere near the level of Skyrim.
Regarding Charr, I couldnt bring myself to play one. If you played GW1, you know what they did to your starting area. That race is pure evil. -
Not sure if it still works, but if you stand outside some of the bowling alleys, you can hear the sound of pins being knocked over. I've always wanted to be able to enter and actually see the inside.
Nellie in Croatoa is another one - I never knew she existed until a year or so ago. Pretty rare sighting.
Never noticed the pumpkin heads in the trees in Croatoa until yesterday - is that a Halloween event thing? -
1. Cave Missions - especially with the pancake room.
2. MM sound effects - Demons and Wolf sound effects drive me nuts.
3. Spamming in LFG and Help Channels.
4. Orenbega missions
5. The new pay2win model - I'd prefer regular expansion packs for $30 vs being nickel and dimed for everything, and paying what would turn out to be 100s of dollars for a single expansion box. -
Wishful thinking, but I'm wondering if it would be possible for Paragon studios to form up independently and recreate this game? The name CoH would of course be off-limits, but maybe something like "Superheroes", "Paragon", etc.
Dont see how a non-compete clause would be applicable since NCSoft would no longer have a superhero MMORPG to compete against.
They already know the inner workings of the game, recreate that and add a brand new frontend - it could maybe be out in a couple of years.
What would really be neat IMO is to reset the game to 70 years ago in the middle of WW2 ... golden age heroes and storylines. Statesman in his youth with his funky helmet. Recluse not yet a villain, but on the verge...
Missing features in this game that I'd like to see:
1. Exploration - I prefer games where you have to EXPLORE the zone to progress. Would require some reworking of the travel powers and/or how zones work. Zones would no longer just be random collection of doors to quest areas - but
areas would have permanent mob allocations. Certain doors would always be a Council base, for example.
2. Personal Story Lines - epic quests that you engage in all the way to max level and beyond.
3. Underwater combat
4. Reworked bases/Personal lairs.
5. Combined Hero/Villain zones across the board. No separate red/blue worlds. -
1. The awesome costume creator. You design your character as you see fit - its not controlled by drops.
2. Designed for casual players. None of the "man, I have to level fast to keep up with my friends". None of the "I have to have purple gear to survive more than a few seconds in this dungeon".
3. Mature community. Leetist players were few and far between.
4. The huge number of archtype/powerset combinations. Other games you can pretty much categorize everything as Tank/Fighter/Healer/Ranged DPS.
5. No cookie cutter builds required - pretty much everything works.
6. Mission Architect
7. All of the memorable villains - Nemesis, Recluse, Crey, Romulus, etc.
I think I'll miss Nemesis the most. -
Quote:Depends on the zone and the area you're in. Example: In one zone, I attacked this one solo mob, then 5 seconds later I had 7 mobs beating the crap out me. Another example, I wandered into an area of the "Night Court". I could actually see the mobs respawning as fast as brought them down. If you consider that easy, good for you, guess you're a better player.
Couple of things. Soloing is not difficult. At all. Crossing zones is also not difficult, unless you are four or more levels under where you are trying to go.
And yes, *some* zones are somewhat easy to traverse. Others have mobs spaced so that you pretty much have to fight for every inch.
Quote:Also really? Since you have to actually pay attention to where your target goes, that makes it 'FPS' style melee combat? Not hardly. You've apparently just been spoiled by having the game do the work for you. -
Quote:Well, you only purchase the box. No monthly fees.Is there a free trial yet? As much as I hated the first game, I certainly wouldn't blindly throw money at its sequel just to try it.
Since I had already pre-purchased the game months ago, I'm playing.
Good points:
1. Beautiful environmental graphics.
2. Very nice, detailed character/costume graphics. However, like most MMOs, you are what you wear. No customization of costumes like you have in CoH.
3. The main quest line is engaging and fairly well written.
4. Voice queues from npcs are fairly well done. No walls of text to read.
5. Character "idle animations" are pretty cool, not the same thing over and over again, like CoH.
Bad points:
1. Everquest mentality in regards to zone design. You will fight tooth and nail to cross zones and expect ambushes galore.
Spawn rate is insane. You will have mobs spawn on top of you while fighting. Soloing is .... difficult.
2. Minimal "quests". You have tasks to perform in each area. Also, zone events are repetitive, expect to do them over and over again to reach the max level for that zone.
3. No grouping from what I've seen, except for dungeons. Not very social.
4. Dungeons are ridiculously hard.
5. The scenic view objectives in zones can be a royal pain in the behind. Think Super Mario bros....
6. The auction house has been up and down, and with limited inventory I've had to scrap a lot of items.
7. Dont care for the crafting system that much, I dont like multi stage crafting.
8. A lot of mobs are reused over and over. Giant spiders anyone?
9. A lot of promised features are not present - "once you save a town, it stays saved" for example.
The zone events are not that "new", you can see many of the same things in current games.
10. No /stick or /follow for melee toons. That makes playing melee a no-go as far as I'm concerned.
I dont like FPS style melee combat.
It's an ok game, but not something I can see myself playing long term.
Going to reserve final judgement until I've played a while though.
As for the OP, dont bomb a game unless you've played it and are commenting on THAT game. It will not help the cause. -
What he doesnt mention in the video is the repetitiveness of these
objectives - and to be frank they arent a whole lot different than regular quests in other MMOs. Kill mobs, collect objects, perform actions like dumping water, etc., etc., the same old same old. Only difference is that you dont have a quest listing.
The OTHER thing that is really bugging me is the difficulty of just crossing a zone. In most MMOs, there's kind of a tacit understanding that roads comprise a safe route - i.e. minimal aggro. There is non-stop aggro when crossing their zones - cant really be avoided. The game also tends to zerg you when engaged with a mob. A fight with a mob usually turns into a fight with every mob in a 1 mile radius. It becomes a real chore just to get from point A to point B.
They made a big todo about the fact that what you've done becomes permanent in the game-world. ( i.e., you save a town, it stays saved ). I've yet to see anything like that.
The vast majority of their "events" are either
1. KIll mobs as they atack an area
2. Follow an npc patrol and kill everything in your path.
Big woop.
There is nothing that revolutionary from what I've seen.
As far as grouping - people dont group. If you happen to be in the same area, yes you're working on the same objective. But there's zero socialization. So, what the reviewer counts as a positive, I consider a negative. -
I was going through some of my screenshots, and thought it would be nice to post them for old-times-sake, before the lights get turned off.
Note sure when beta ended, but I think most of these are from beta.
Beta (April 2004):
My namesake, and first toon:
Remember the Perez park flight exploit? Everyone was farming hydra. Not sure this one's from beta.
I recently got this guy to 50 ( had him shelved for years ). Glad I did so
before the game shut down.
May 2004:
I had several screenshots from the 1 year anniversary celebration in AP, unfortunately, I seem to have lost them. -
What I personally wish they'd do is to break the concept of bases and raids into two separate systems.
1. Bases - scrap the current system, and make something that is more flexible and usable. I have a personal base that I've been working on for years, I cant stand working on it more than once every few months due to the clutziness of the interface.
2. Raids - create something similar to mission architect. You select a map, decorate it up, and use that for a battleground. I could even see this being PART of MA.